JVC Announces Major HDR Update for 4K D-ILA Projectors - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 1014 Old 10-11-2019, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post
I think I have figured out what is going on with my way overblown reds. Apparent misunderstanding on my part. What is happening is that when I set Picture Mode to Frame Adapt HDR the projector assumes that the incoming signal is HDR. If it's SDR then that's when the reds get over the top. So is there some way to have the projector detect HDR and only use the Frame Adapt HDR mode then? If not (I suspect not) is there a way to switch between say, Film picture and Frame Adapt HDR modes without going through the menu steps? A direct IR code perhaps?
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The projector should be auto-detecting the difference between SDR and HDR now. Play a piece of SDR content and choose the Natural picture mode. Then play HDR content and choose Frame Adapt HDR. The projector should remember those settings when it detects each type of signal and auto-switch between them. Do not select Frame Adapt HDR until you're actually playing HDR content.

That said, I did have one instance where the projector got stuck in Frame Adapt HDR mode even when I switched back to SDR content, and the picture looked awful much like you describe. Manually switching it to Natural fixed that, and it started auto-detecting again after that.


I posted about this. Yes, preliminary results are that for some reason latest firmware occasionally fails to autodetect. Just happend to me again 4th time with roku, and with it happening to you too after update doesnt seem like new firmware is just coincidence

Old firmware would do it, but not as often. Haven't seen it (yet) on my 203.

Agree manual switch is good workaround, but maybe a setting in roku could slow it down to give jvc slow handshaking time to catch up? I dont remember a setting that would work.

Are you running frame by frame or scene? Im running scene, which may slow jvc down a few frames.

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post #422 of 1014 Old 10-11-2019, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
If I understand correctly what you're saying, that's not the way it works. Switching to HDR is set up in Input Signal - HDR Setting - HDR10 Auto Select (manual pg 52). After the firmware update, that will already be set to Frame Adapt HDR and the switch will be automatic when HDR is detected. When HDR goes away it will automatically switch back to whatever mode it was set to before. You don't need to setup anything for the switch to be operative and you should never have to select Frame Adapt HDR manually.


Thats the way it works most of the time, just not all the time. Ive had it fail to switch 4 times since update.
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post #423 of 1014 Old 10-11-2019, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
The projector should be auto-detecting the difference between SDR and HDR now. Play a piece of SDR content and choose the Natural picture mode. Then play HDR content and choose Frame Adapt HDR. The projector should remember those settings when it detects each type of signal and auto-switch between them. Do not select Frame Adapt HDR until you're actually playing HDR content.

That said, I did have one instance where the projector got stuck in Frame Adapt HDR mode even when I switched back to SDR content, and the picture looked awful much like you describe. Manually switching it to Natural fixed that, and it started auto-detecting again after that.
I'm going to need to do more testing because the projector wasn't auto switching for me tonight. I'm pretty sure it used to before the update. My Oppo 203 was set to convert HDR to SDR so that's why it had the problem like the Roku. Manual switching is a workaround, but certainly not as convenient.
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post #424 of 1014 Old 10-11-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post
I posted about this. Yes, preliminary results are that for some reason latest firmware occasionally fails to autodetect. Just happend to me again 4th time with roku, and with it happening to you too after update doesnt seem like new firmware is just coincidence

Old firmware would do it, but not as often. Haven't seen it (yet) on my 203.

Agree manual switch is good workaround, but maybe a setting in roku could slow it down to give jvc slow handshaking time to catch up? I dont remember a setting that would work.

Are you running frame by frame or scene? Im running scene, which may slow jvc down a few frames.
I never saw it happen with previous firmware but I only use my projector about once every other week or so (I mostly listen to music in the room and then I use the TV).

I also have my projector DTM set to scene.
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post #425 of 1014 Old 10-11-2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post
What if you really need a little bit of keystone adj in your environment? Is keystone still supported with the 3.1 firmware?
You never need a little keystone adjustment. It's easy to correct using the 3 axis of the projector between rotating the projector. Can you give an example where you really need keystone adjustment? Keystone takes away *a lot* of resolution on the image. There's really no point owning a native 4K projector if you're using something like keystone with it.
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post #426 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post
I'm going to need to do more testing because the projector wasn't auto switching for me tonight. I'm pretty sure it used to before the update. My Oppo 203 was set to convert HDR to SDR so that's why it had the problem like the Roku. Manual switching is a workaround, but certainly not as convenient.
If Oppo 203 was set to change HDR to SDR, that explains why it is not automaticlly switching. Also explains why colors were blown out.You were sending an SDR source to HDR settings and with HDR flag remove, could not autoswitch. Oppo 203 should be set to auto. Then it will send HDR flag and JVC will detect and switch. But right now if you have been manually switching the SDR, you may have it out of wack. To get everything back, select an SDR source and change any settings that need to be changed. Then feed HDR source and check settings. Adjust as needed. Now when playing SDrz source or HDR source, it should auto switch.
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post #427 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
You never need a little keystone adjustment. It's easy to correct using the 3 axis of the projector between rotating the projector. Can you give an example where you really need keystone adjustment? Keystone takes away *a lot* of resolution on the image. There's really no point owning a native 4K projector if you're using something like keystone with it.
Easy to give example. Let's say in your setup, you have 10" of vertical lens shift available to you, but you have the projector lens 10.5" above image. That would cause you to tilt projector down, causing a trapezoidal shape. Of course the correct solution is to lower projector or raise the screen, but tilting down is an easy solution, but if I was going to do that, I would pull the bottom of the screen out from the wall, so that image was no longer trapezoidal shaped, rather than use keystone.
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post #428 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
If Oppo 203 was set to change HDR to SDR, that explains why it is not automaticlly switching. Also explains why colors were blown out.You were sending an SDR source to HDR settings and with HDR flag remove, could not autoswitch. Oppo 203 should be set to auto. Then it will send HDR flag and JVC will detect and switch. But right now if you have been manually switching the SDR, you may have it out of wack. To get everything back, select an SDR source and change any settings that need to be changed. Then feed HDR source and check settings. Adjust as needed. Now when playing SDrz source or HDR source, it should auto switch.

Good catch on @bwillcox 's oppo. That may be why i've never noticed issue on 203. (Knock on wood)

Any idea for us that see issue with roku?

Even with new firmware, its autoswitches fine probably 99.9% of time. Example: youtube app in roku sdr==>hdr==>sdr==>most of times it auto switches just fine.

Then once in a while, hdr==>sdr fails to switch out of frame adapt and get the blown out reds. Manual switch gets it in sync again. New firmware seems like it happens more often, but luckily still relatively rare. I havent counted passes, but the four fails might make for a better than 99% overall successful autoswitch rate on roku.

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post #429 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
You never need a little keystone adjustment. It's easy to correct using the 3 axis of the projector between rotating the projector. Can you give an example where you really need keystone adjustment? Keystone takes away *a lot* of resolution on the image. There's really no point owning a native 4K projector if you're using something like keystone with it.
I won't argue with you, I'm not sure at this point if I'm using any keystone or not. It was simply a question so as to understand if keystone adjustments were disabled with this firmware.

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post #430 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
If Oppo 203 was set to change HDR to SDR, that explains why it is not automaticlly switching. Also explains why colors were blown out.You were sending an SDR source to HDR settings and with HDR flag remove, could not autoswitch. Oppo 203 should be set to auto. Then it will send HDR flag and JVC will detect and switch. But right now if you have been manually switching the SDR, you may have it out of wack. To get everything back, select an SDR source and change any settings that need to be changed. Then feed HDR source and check settings. Adjust as needed. Now when playing SDrz source or HDR source, it should auto switch.
Thanks Mike. There's a good chance that I got it out of sync with my 203. I hadn't used the 203 with my NX7 since I've been using my U9000 instead. When I last used the 203 was with the x750 projector I had previously and then I was having do the HDR -> SDR conversion. Gonna see if I can get its auto switching back in sync today and will let y'all know how it goes.
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post #431 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post
Good catch on @bwillcox 's oppo. That may be why i've never noticed issue on 203. (Knock on wood)

Any idea for us that see issue with roku?

Even with new firmware, its autoswitches fine probably 99.9% of time. Example: youtube app in roku sdr==>hdr==>sdr==>most of times it auto switches just fine.

Then once in a while, hdr==>sdr fails to switch out of frame adapt and get the blown out reds. Manual switch gets it in sync again. New firmware seems like it happens more often, but luckily still relatively rare. I havent counted passes, but the four fails might make for a better than 99% overall successful autoswitch rate on roku.
It could be that the Roku title is missing the HDR flag, but if that was the case, then every time you played that title, it should not switch. Nothing the projector can do about that.
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post #432 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Easy to give example. Let's say in your setup, you have 10" of vertical lens shift available to you, but you have the projector lens 10.5" above image. That would cause you to tilt projector down, causing a trapezoidal shape. Of course the correct solution is to lower projector or raise the screen, but tilting down is an easy solution, but if I was going to do that, I would pull the bottom of the screen out from the wall, so that image was no longer trapezoidal shaped, rather than use keystone.
There you go. You just invalidated your own example

Keystone is *very* costly in resolution. It's so bad that desktop text instantly becomes blurry as soon as it's engaged.

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post #433 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
You never need a little keystone adjustment. It's easy to correct using the 3 axis of the projector between rotating the projector. Can you give an example where you really need keystone adjustment? Keystone takes away *a lot* of resolution on the image. There's really no point owning a native 4K projector if you're using something like keystone with it.

I would say that's true of these JVC projectors, but the situation may be different with, say, a DLP projector that has a high image offset and extremely limited image shift and zoom range. A while back I tested an Optoma model, and the only way to get it to square on my screen without keystone was to set it in my lap.

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post #434 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
It could be that the Roku title is missing the HDR flag, but if that was the case, then every time you played that title, it should not switch. Nothing the projector can do about that.

Thanks Mike, good thought, but think its something else. I think the the HDR flag is there because it goes into hdr fine. Its coming out of hdr back to sdr where the problem occurs. Its like jvc seems to think flag is still there

I think once i even switched sources on avr and back but it stayed stuck untill i manually switched. Will have to see if i can repeat that scenario tho


Edit, reread, i see your point about everytime. Agree.

Overall its a minor issue, especially considering the benefits of new firmware. If it ends up really being a mild bug, much rather have the new DTM with a possible "stability enhancement" release some time in future. This new DTM is awesome, all sources, easy set up, great picture.

Dave

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post #435 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 09:21 AM
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Thanks Mike. There's a good chance that I got it out of sync with my 203. I hadn't used the 203 with my NX7 since I've been using my U9000 instead. When I last used the 203 was with the x750 projector I had previously and then I was having do the HDR -> SDR conversion. Gonna see if I can get its auto switching back in sync today and will let y'all know how it goes.
Well, I've been testing with my 203 and switching between a regular Blu-ray disc (Hanz Zimmer in Prague) and a UHD disc (Jumanji Welcome to the Jungle) and the JVC didn't switch between SDR and HDR as I swapped between the discs. So this tells me that the JVC appeared to be ignoring the HDR flag. I next performed a Factory Reset of my projector and then...tada...it started switching modes between the Natural picture mode with SDR and Frame Adapte HDR picture mode with HDR video. The net of this is that my projector required a Factory Reset to do the auto SDR to HDR switch.

I suggest that anyone else having problems with auto SDR/HDR switching should try a Factory Reset.
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Last edited by bwillcox; 10-12-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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post #436 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 09:23 AM
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Well, I've been testing with my 203 and switching between a regular Blu-ray disc (Hanz Zimmer in Prague) and a UHD disc (Jumanji Welcome to the Jungle) and the JVC didn't switch between SDR and HDR as I swapped between the discs. So this tells me that the JVC appeared to be ignoring the HDR flag. I next performed a Factory Reset of my projector and the...tada...it started switching modes between the Natural picture mode with SDR and Frame Adapte HDR picture mode with HDR video. The net of this is that my projector required a Factory Reset to do the auto SDR to HDR switch.

I suggest that anyone else having problems with auto SDR/HDR switching should try a Factory Reset.
Thank you for sharing that information that could be very helpful

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post #437 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 09:32 AM
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Thanks Mike, good thought, but think its something else. I think the the HDR flag is there because it goes into hdr fine. Its coming out of hdr back to sdr where the problem occurs. Its like jvc seems to think flag is still there

I think once i even switched sources on avr and back but it stayed stuck untill i manually switched. Will have to see if i can repeat that scenario tho


Edit, reread, i see your point about everytime. Agree.

Overall its a minor issue, especially considering the benefits of new firmware. If it ends up really being a mild bug, much rather have the new DTM with a possible "stability enhancement" release some time in future. This new DTM is awesome, all sources, easy set up, great picture.
I am sure there was a similar post concerning Roku and an HDR flag getting stuck in one of the HDfury device threads. Asking if HDfury could resolve it; but of course not. It was a Roku issue. This was quite a while back and I could not find the post.

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Well, I've been testing with my 203 and switching between a regular Blu-ray disc (Hanz Zimmer in Prague) and a UHD disc (Jumanji Welcome to the Jungle) and the JVC didn't switch between SDR and HDR as I swapped between the discs. So this tells me that the JVC appeared to be ignoring the HDR flag. I next performed a Factory Reset of my projector and then...tada...it started switching modes between the Natural picture mode with SDR and Frame Adapte HDR picture mode with HDR video. The net of this is that my projector required a Factory Reset to do the auto SDR to HDR switch.

I suggest that anyone else having problems with auto SDR/HDR switching should try a Factory Reset.


After doing a factory reset do I have to update to the latest firmware again?


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post #439 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 10:51 AM
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After doing a factory reset do I have to update to the latest firmware again?


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No. The reset will remove all settings but not the latest firmware.
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post #440 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 11:08 AM
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I am sure there was a similar post concerning Roku and an HDR flag getting stuck in one of the HDfury device threads. Asking if HDfury could resolve it; but of course not. It was a Roku issue. This was quite a while back and I could not find the post.

Thanks for tip and searching! That may indeed explain issue with roku's. If it happens again, i can switch to another sdr source and back to roku. If other source works ok means roku is stuck, and cycling jvc mode some how wakes roku up.

That's why i used "seems like" etc. Can flip a coin 4 times in a row and get same result, but doesn't mean will keep getting it. If failure rate stays the same as old firmware on average, i should be good to go for a month now lol!

Thanks again for tip!

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post #441 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 11:10 AM
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After doing a factory reset do I have to update to the latest firmware again?


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I didn't. Simply reset my few settings is all.

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post #442 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 12:22 PM
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No. The reset will remove all settings but not the latest firmware.


Ok cool. That was a quick fix. Thanks for your help. It’s auto detecting between SDR and HDR now.


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post #443 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 03:27 PM
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Try this and see how you like it in terms of contrast and color saturation.

Frame Adapt HDR set at high
color mode set at wide
Lamp on high

manual iris at -3 or -4
dynamic iris on auto 1 or auto 2
color popped a bit to +2 or +3
brightness at -2 or -3

I found this combination worked well to lower the black floor, maintain shadow detail, not too bright but plenty of punch when needed for highlights, good contrast, and good color saturation.

Not to say it will work for everyone or every bit of content but I tried a range of content and it seemed to work better than anything I have come up with yet.
I did some more testing this morning, and I did adjust the brightness and color. However, it took WAY more than just 2 or 3 clicks to get it looking right. Never would have imagined I'd ever set the color that high.

Oh well, at least it's looking good now.

The Hodor Theater - Now with Atmos
Projector - JVC D-ILA NX7; Receiver - Yamaha Adventage A3050
LCR speakers - JTR Noesis 228 HT (3); Surr./Back - Klipsch Pro Cinema KPT-8000M (4)
Atmos In-ceiling - Niles DS8HD (4); Subs - Passive JTR Captivator Pro (2)
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post #444 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 08:30 PM
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Cross posting my question from the owners thread.

I’m outputting from an Oppo 203. Use it for both UHD and Blu ray. I know some mentioned setting to Source Direct, but I like my Oppo to upscale when playing 1080p content. Am I right that I should then set to Output Resolution > Custom, Custom Resolution > UHD Auto, HDR > Auto?

Basically, I would like the Oppo to send a 4K HDR output so the JVC does all the tone mapping, and send a 4K SDR output for 1080p content (eg bluray).
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post #445 of 1014 Old 10-12-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Count1977 View Post
Cross posting my question from the owners thread.

I’m outputting from an Oppo 203. Use it for both UHD and Blu ray. I know some mentioned setting to Source Direct, but I like my Oppo to upscale when playing 1080p content. Am I right that I should then set to Output Resolution > Custom, Custom Resolution > UHD Auto, HDR > Auto?

Basically, I would like the Oppo to send a 4K HDR output so the JVC does all the tone mapping, and send a 4K SDR output for 1080p content (eg bluray).
You could just leave everything in auto. The oppo will send evgerything to the JVC that it can accept. That’s what I do when I’m not using my lumagen to upscale and I want the oppo to do it. Video output setup>Output resolution> Auto. I also leave color space and color depth to auto. Works well for me 🙂
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JVC RS2000//JVC RS540 in Triple Black Velvet batcave
Anthem mrx1120
Klipsch Ref series 7.2.4 setup
Oppo 203 //Xbox one X // Apple 4k TV// PS4 Pro
Stewart Filmscreen 135" 16x9 Cima Neve
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post #446 of 1014 Old 10-13-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrinegar View Post
You could just leave everything in auto. The oppo will send evgerything to the JVC that it can accept. That’s what I do when I’m not using my lumagen to upscale and I want the oppo to do it. Video output setup>Output resolution> Auto. I also leave color space and color depth to auto. Works well for me 🙂

Seconded. Auto is the correct setting for what he wants. It works great.
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Television and Home Theater Writer/Editor, Primetimer.com

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers, whomever they may be.
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post #447 of 1014 Old 10-13-2019, 11:23 AM
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All, been reading through this thread. I have a new NX7 I am about to install. Is this a worthwhile upgrade or should I hold off on installing it and run the previous firmware?
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post #448 of 1014 Old 10-13-2019, 11:31 AM
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All, been reading through this thread. I have a new NX7 I am about to install. Is this a worthwhile upgrade or should I hold off on installing it and run the previous firmware?
If you have been reading through this thread, you know the answer.......yes you should upgrade......
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post #449 of 1014 Old 10-13-2019, 11:41 AM
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All, been reading through this thread. I have a new NX7 I am about to install. Is this a worthwhile upgrade or should I hold off on installing it and run the previous firmware?
You should absolutely install the HDR Dynamic Tone Mapping firmware update. If you want to watch for a couple hours with just the auto tone mapping from the previous firmware just to see the difference that makes sense. Not updating after a couple hours would not make sense to me.

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post #450 of 1014 Old 10-13-2019, 12:24 PM
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Went through this thread and this PDF page from JVC wasn't linked, it gives a basic explanation of the new HDR settings.

https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...tup_manual.pdf
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