JVC Announces Major HDR Update for 4K D-ILA Projectors - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 1013 Old 10-20-2019, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Neither of those calculators is very useful. The 2nd one didn't have any JVC 4K projectors I could see except for the RS4500.
I know those get thrown around the forum from time to time. Does anyone make a useful/accurate one?

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post #542 of 1013 Old 10-20-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
So have you ever compared a 6050 side by side to an NX5? I find your views here interesting as almost all of your posts in the Sony 2019 projectors versus JVC 2019 projectors thread are decidedly negative to the 2019 JVC projectors and you were not so complimentary to the previous generation of eshift JVC projectors in that thread either. Just a casual observation.


I have compared a 5040ub side by side with a nx9. Its sitting on a shelf now below the nx9. Thought about hooking it up again for another compare, but been looking at trying the latest madvr 103 build to compare with jvc frame adapt.

Wait, what thread is this?
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post #543 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
For me HDR is needed for the majority to be used with the aperture wide open. Not sure how much contrast needed to be increased for it to be significant. For example, the RS2000/N7 is around 30K CR with the aperture open, which is similar to the RS5x0 at 35k with the aperture open.
interesting, I did not know that
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post #544 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
So have you ever compared a 6050 side by side to an NX5? I find your views here interesting as almost all of your posts in the Sony 2019 projectors versus JVC 2019 projectors thread are decidedly negative to the 2019 JVC projectors and you were not so complimentary to the previous generation of eshift JVC projectors in that thread either. Just a casual observation.

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Yes i tested SONY JVC and Epson side by side, and always done a effort to calibrate them as closely as possible, specially gamma and lightoutput.

For HDR (High Dynamic Range) you need more than just lightoutput, you actually need contrast, wich is why HDR on projectors will always be a bit a mood point and a very subjective evaluation based on your person preference.

Of the 3 brands JVC Sony and Epson, Epson is the lowest contrast ones, ½ the contrast of the Sony.

Who want to see a HDR presentation on a ultra low dynamic range display?

Taking a JVC RS40 well calibrated, and a external tonemapping like Lumagen or MAD VR, you will get a better image than the Epson 6050.

Now im wondering what side by side tests you done, and wich JVC projectors you have, as i see you in multiple JVC threads.
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post #545 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ed1985 View Post
Yes i tested SONY JVC and Epson side by side, and always done a effort to calibrate them as closely as possible, specially gamma and lightoutput.



For HDR (High Dynamic Range) you need more than just lightoutput, you actually need contrast, wich is why HDR on projectors will always be a bit a mood point and a very subjective evaluation based on your person preference.



Of the 3 brands JVC Sony and Epson, Epson is the lowest contrast ones, ½ the contrast of the Sony.



Who want to see a HDR presentation on a ultra low dynamic range display?



Taking a JVC RS40 well calibrated, and a external tonemapping like Lumagen or MAD VR, you will get a better image than the Epson 6050.



Now im wondering what side by side tests you done, and wich JVC projectors you have, as i see you in multiple JVC threads.
Thanks for your opinion

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post #546 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 08:01 AM
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I presented a similar question in the JVC thread, but on an afterthought, this question may be more appropriate here. For those of you using the DI with Dynamic Tone Mapping and who previously used the Panny players with these JVCs, which of the following options offered up the best black level rendering for most UHD discs:

A) UB820/9000 w/optimizer HDR BT2020 DTM off
B) UB820/9000 w/optimizer SDR BT2020 DTM will be off
C) UB820/9000 optimizer off HDR BT2020 DTM on
D) Device other than Panny or DTM
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post #547 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I've seen an Epson. A buddy of mines had the 6040 before he upgraded to the RS640. I have owned 20+ projectors as well, so I would not want somebody to believe something that is not true. I'm sure no one would choose a 6050 over a RS1000/NX5. Almost positive because of its superior lens, resolution, build, 3D, native 4K, lag, auto calibration, DTM, just to name a few. There is a reason majority own a JVC native 4k or eshift projector on the forum. Not to say anything bad about the 6050, it's just not the quality of a JVC. Look at everyone who sells projectors, I believe they all own a JVC.
I saw a 5040 (similar enough to the 6040) in my room and it was not in the same league as my RS440 which means it has to be even further away from the RS1000/NX5 especially considering DTM.
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post #548 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 08:27 AM
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JVC Announces Major HDR Update for 4K D-ILA Projectors

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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I saw a 5040 (similar enough to the 6040) in my room and it was not in the same league as my RS440 which means it has to be even further away from the RS1000/NX5 especially considering DTM.


Yeah I saw a 5040 vs an RS400 and would take the RS400 any day.

The RS400 had significantly better contrast and black floor, and the JVC eShift was even a little sharper than the 5040, though it was also likely due to a better lens on the JVC as well.

Compared to a NX5 it’s no contest.

The only thing the Epson will do better is a bit brighter in its bright modes.

Epson will do around 2000 lumens calibrated in bright modes. JVC NX5 will do around 1600. The older JVC eShift though would be slightly brighter as well around 1700 calibrated.
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post #549 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Johnson 3 View Post
I know those get thrown around the forum from time to time. Does anyone make a useful/accurate one?
There aren't any that are " automatic ". You need a good one ( there area a few linked somewhere on this forum ) that you can add lumens / screen size / screen gain etc. to manually. Then you need to get real calibrated lumens from qualified measurements - like from Arrow's test reports or at projectorreviews.com or Sound and Vision.com . Then you can make a more accurate calculation.
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post #550 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
There aren't any that are " automatic ". You need a good one ( there area a few linked somewhere on this forum ) that you can add lumens / screen size / screen gain etc. to manually. Then you need to get real calibrated lumens from qualified measurements - like from Arrow's test reports or at projectorreviews.com or Sound and Vision.com . Then you can make a more accurate calculation.
Yeah, the best way is to find a review of the unit and then adapt the measurement to your room.

The review should tell you lumens. If it does, then the only real variable you need to worry about is throw distance. Some reviews will tell you what the light drop is over the throw range too, so you can approximate to your throw distance.

If they tell you the measurement in foot lamberts, then you will need to convert that to lumens based on their screen size and screen gain and throw range. Then you can convert the lumens to foot lamberts for your own setup.
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post #551 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 09:56 AM
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can I go ultra wide w/o the DCR? Biggest screen size and still able to do HDR with the NX7?? I'm down to getting the screen and projector. Got a totally dark 18' x 23' room... 7.1.4 ATMOS in place...
Absolutely. A lot of us are using installation modes (lens memory) with a 2.35:1 screen without a lens. You can use the full 17:9 panel for a nice boost in output for ratios wider than 1.85:1 too. As a bonus masking is now a part of the installation mode so that you won't see overspill any longer. Of course this still won't have the light output of the DCR so I wouldn't go much larger than a 140" 2.35:1 screen.
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post #552 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Macroblocker View Post
thanks for the comparison! although I'm wondering if in 2020 JVC will update the line with higher CR haha
Although anything can happen, we generally haven't seen large changes in panel technology from JVC mid product cycle (4-5 years). So I'm doubtful. We may see some better DI modes, but those changes should be able to be retroactively applied via firmware on the current models.

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post #553 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 10:35 AM
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Although anything can happen, we generally haven't seen large changes in panel technology from JVC mid product cycle (4-5 years). So I'm doubtful. We may see some better DI modes, but those changes should be able to be retroactively applied via firmware on the current models.
Other than a hyper expensive Christie projector, we haven't seen huge improvements in contrast with native 4K projectors from Sony or any DLP models either. I wouldn't expect more than small incremental improvements, year to year, over time.

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post #554 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 11:26 AM
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Although anything can happen, we generally haven't seen large changes in panel technology from JVC mid product cycle (4-5 years). So I'm doubtful. We may see some better DI modes, but those changes should be able to be retroactively applied via firmware on the current models.
its possible I have become too focused on CR specs and not real world performance
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post #555 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Macroblocker View Post
its possible I have become too focused on CR specs and not real world performance
Contrast is very important. I was worried moving from my RS520 to the NX7. Honestly the difference really isn't all that much. A good example, about a month ago I watched Alita: BA on a friends calibrated RS540 and then Blade Runner on the NX7 (both titles UHD/4K disc). At no point did I feel the NX7 was lacking in contrast. Is there a difference? Sure. Big? No. Bottom line is you can wait forever for the next best thing, but I can't imagine not being thrilled with what these new units are doing here and now.
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post #556 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Macroblocker View Post
its possible I have become too focused on CR specs and not real world performance
As someone that owns a JVC RS4500, I'd have to say yes.

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post #557 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 12:28 PM
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its possible I have become too focused on CR specs and not real world performance
Unless you own a high gain screen of over 2 gain, then it may be something noticable. If I close my aperture completely, I'm around 65-70k with 350 lumens in high lamp, and that would have been 110-115k at 350 lumens on high lamp with the rs520. That's noticeable. However on a 1.0 gain screen at 100in, that's only 11ftL. On a 2.0 gain screen that's around 23ftL, so a significant difference in brightness. So, many factors.
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post #558 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Yeah I saw a 5040 vs an RS400 and would take the RS400 any day.

The RS400 had significantly better contrast and black floor, and the JVC eShift was even a little sharper than the 5040, though it was also likely due to a better lens on the JVC as well.

Compared to a NX5 it’s no contest.

The only thing the Epson will do better is a bit brighter in its bright modes.

Epson will do around 2000 lumens calibrated in bright modes. JVC NX5 will do around 1600. The older JVC eShift though would be slightly brighter as well around 1700 calibrated.
I think we have made sense of the outrageous statement that the Epson 6050 is on par with the RS2000/N7 and better than the RS1000/NX5.
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post #559 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 12:51 PM
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I think we have made sense of the outrageous statement that the Epson 6050 is on par with the RS2000/N7 and better than the RS1000/NX5.
No one stated the Epson 6050 was on par with the RS2000 before or after the DTM. What was stated is that before the DTM update on a price to performance ratio the Epson had the edge. Which is an opinion just like most of the statements made on these forums. The JVC RS2000 is and has always been the superior projector. After the DTM update the JVC RS2000 is the leader in price to performance as well. Sorry you feel that either of those statements are outrageous. In regards to the RS1000 the statement made was that in a living room situation with light colored walls and high ambient light the Epson 6050 due to its higher lumens output might be more appropriate. Once again never was it stated that the Epson 6050 was better than the RS1000 but for the price difference the choice becomes more difficult for those who are on a more modest budget. Honestly sometimes the way that a small percentage of JVC owners look down at other projectors and indirectly the people who own them is very offputting and elitist. It does not make people feel welcome in the forums. It feels very much like affluent upper class people staring down their noses at the working middle class people. It is only a minute percentage but it certainly doesn't paint a great picture of JVC projector owners.

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post #560 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
No one stated the Epson 6050 was on par with the RS2000 before or after the DTM. What was stated is that before the DTM update on a price to performance ratio the Epson had the edge. Which is an opinion just like most of the statements made on these forums. The JVC RS2000 is and has always been the superior projector. After the DTM update the JVC RS2000 is the leader in price to performance as well. Sorry you feel that either of those statements are outrageous. In regards to the RS1000 the statement made was that in a living room situation with light colored walls and high ambient light the Epson 6050 due to its higher lumens output might be more appropriate. Once again never was it stated that the Epson 6050 was better than the RS1000 but for the price difference the choice becomes more difficult for those who are on a more modest budget. Honestly sometimes the way that a small percentage of JVC owners look down at other projectors and indirectly the people who own them is very offputting and elitist. It does not make people feel welcome in the forums. It feels very much like affluent upper class people staring down their noses at the working middle class people. It is only a minute percentage but it certainly doesn't paint a great picture of JVC projector owners.

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Have you compared a Epson and a JVC in any of the conditions you mentioned above?
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post #561 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 01:08 PM
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This a JVC thread but I don't believe that a JVC is always superior than an Epson. I'll chose a Epson 6050 over a JVC RS1
This would be an example of some of the elitist looking down your nose statements I encounter from a small percentage of JVC projector owners when I venture into a JVC projector thread. Luckily there are a much larger percentage of JVC projector owners who can appreciate that everyone's means are different and they understand that we are all just trying to create the best viewing experience for ourselves and our family within our means.

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post #562 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 01:09 PM
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Have you compared a Epson and a JVC in any of the conditions you mentioned above?
Yes.

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post #563 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 01:09 PM
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its possible I have become too focused on CR specs and not real world performance
You will always want more contrast, specially for HDR.
You can get used to low contrast, but if you see higher contrast you will want it, when you reach around 100000:1 calibrated the desire slows down and its suffician for even the most critical user, unless you compare it side by side to a 500000:1 projector wich is not something many will ever experience.

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Yes.

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Wich models, was it in the same room, direct A-B comparison equal calibrations? and how did it look?
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post #565 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 01:17 PM
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Can the epson-Sony-JVC comparisons go to another chat? Would like to hear more about the DTM updates.
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post #566 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 01:18 PM
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Can the epson-Sony-JVC comparisons go to another chat? Would like to hear more about the DTM updates.
My apologies I can certainly understand what you are saying.

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post #567 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
This would be an example of some of the elitist looking down your nose statements I encounter from a small percentage of JVC projector owners when I venture into a JVC projector thread. Luckily there are a much larger percentage of JVC projector owners who can appreciate that everyone's means are different and they understand that we are all just trying to create the best viewing experience for ourselves and our family within our means.

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It's just odd that someone is constantly posting in a JVC thread about other projectors, then getting offended that JVC owners in a JVC thread prefers their JVC projectors. Please post your experience of your projector in the appropriate thread. If you love your Epson, I'm sure Epson owners will appreciate your experience much more than JVC owners.
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post #568 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
... Honestly sometimes the way that a small percentage of JVC owners look down at other projectors and indirectly the people who own them is very offputting and elitist. It does not make people feel welcome in the forums. It feels very much like affluent upper class people staring down their noses at the working middle class people. It is only a minute percentage but it certainly doesn't paint a great picture of JVC projector owners.

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post #569 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 07:02 PM
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Nice work by you. What projector brand does Barkington III prefer?

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post #570 of 1013 Old 10-21-2019, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macroblocker View Post
its possible I have become too focused on CR specs and not real world performance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
As someone that owns a JVC RS4500, I'd have to say yes.
Sheesh, where were you guys when I was discussing the advantages of the BenQ HT9060? Well, since tone mapping is the flavor of this thread, I'll add that I'm still on the fence about uploading FW 3.10. Being that uploading the latest FW is for all practical purposes is irreversible, I just want to be sure first.
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