JVC Announces Major HDR Update for 4K D-ILA Projectors - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
So the new JVC projectors, the Lumagen and MadVR still have the advantage of applying DTM to everything.


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After upgrading to FW 3.10, I'm happy to report that I still don't have the yellowing text issue and that the DI is working accordingly.

I haven't taken measurements yet, but I run my NX7 in low lamp using Frame-by-Frame (F-B-F) High DTM setting and it's plenty bright. The operational noise in high lamp is too much for me to bear, so this works out well for me.

I wonder if JVC created this new FW with the Panny's HCX processing in mind at all. The combination of 3.10's F-B-F and the Panny player just has a different look --I mean a very, very good look.
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post #632 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
DH is reporting this technique offers benefits on HDR10 BD titles. I'll be sure to test a wide range of titles.

I'll be testing the Sony x800m2 + vertex 4k as early as Monday.
Awesome! ...keeping my fingers crossed with the hope that everyone with an HDR-compatible JVC or HDR PJ can get DTM results or similar experiences.
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post #633 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
https://www.avforums.com/threads/dol...s-yes.2254350/

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Any 2nd party verification that this works? I hate to say it but the source has a vote of no confidence from me.
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post #634 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
Any 2nd party verification that this works? I hate to say it but the source has a vote of no confidence from me.


As they say “ If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is “.


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post #635 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 06:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
Any 2nd party verification that this works? I hate to say it but the source has a vote of no confidence from me.
Agree verification is required. Couple people on the forum are going to be testing. Looking at you @Bytehoven LOL but no seriously inquiring minds want to know if this is fools gold or the real thing.

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post #636 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
Any 2nd party verification that this works? I hate to say it but the source has a vote of no confidence from me.
Can you please elaborate on what you mean when you say, "2nd party"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
As they say “ If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is “.
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Why? I was skeptical about going with the JVC upgrade to 3.10 because my NX7 did everything so well already and I was worried about impacting my stellar DI operation somehow, but here I am and all is good.

I'm not so sure why all the negativity. If it helps people, isn't it worth at least investigating?
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post #637 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Agree verification is required. Couple people on the forum are going to be testing. Looking at you @Bytehoven LOL but no seriously inquiring minds want to know if this is fools gold or the real thing.
We needed another player, and a BB open box special on the x800m2 fills that need. Then I helped out an avs member selling his vertex, and I have what I need to see if we have indeed discovered yet another hdfury magic trick.

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post #638 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Agree verification is required. Couple people on the forum are going to be testing. Looking at you @Bytehoven LOL but no seriously inquiring minds want to know if this is fools gold or the real thing.

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post #639 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
We needed another player, and a BB open box special on the x800m2 fills that need. Then I helped out an avs member selling his vertex, and I have what I need to see if we have indeed discovered yet another hdfury magic trick.



Seriously DTM from that combo? Thanks for jumping on this. Can't wait to read your full review.

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post #640 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
So the new JVC projectors, the Lumagen and MadVR still have the advantage of applying DTM to everything.


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One interesting scenario, if it indeed produces better HDR content than the Panasonic Tone Mapping, is to use this trick for Netflix/Amazon content where DVision is present. I agree with Craig that non-Dolby Vision sources can't be improved out of thin air. But this method can be a good companion for HTPC MadVR, so I can improve not only my 4K rips but also Amazon/Netflix content where Dolby Vision is offered. (and with that, avoid expensive purchases such as Lumagen or a new JVC)

Waiting to see more feedback!
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post #641 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:33 PM
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You're not going to pull Barkington III out that hat now, are you?

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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

On a more serious note, you may want to start another thread with your findings unless, if it works, there will be direct comparisons to FW 3.10.
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post #642 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
You're not going to pull Barkington III out that hat now, are you?







On a more serious note, you may want to start another thread with your findings unless, if it works, there will be direct comparisons to FW 3.10.
Good call on the new thread.

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post #643 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
After upgrading to FW 3.10, I'm happy to report that I still don't have the yellowing text issue and that the DI is working accordingly.

I haven't taken measurements yet, but I run my NX7 in low lamp using Frame-by-Frame (F-B-F) High DTM setting and it's plenty bright. The operational noise in high lamp is too much for me to bear, so this works out well for me.

I wonder if JVC created this new FW with the Panny's HCX processing in mind at all. The combination of 3.10's F-B-F and the Panny player just has a different look --I mean a very, very good look.
Can you elaborate what HCX processing is and how it is enabled? I personally find no difference using the Panasonic or Oppo player to send HDR signal for DTM.
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post #644 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
DH is reporting this technique offers benefits on HDR10 BD titles. I'll be sure to test a wide range of titles.

I'll be testing the Sony x800m2 + vertex 4k as early as Monday.
it's a good thing i didn't sell off my madvr rig before testing this..

OT for this thread, folks can send pm for details.
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post #645 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:56 PM
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Can you please elaborate on what you mean when you say, "2nd party"?
Any additional person that has verified what the original source has claimed.
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post #646 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 07:56 PM
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Can you elaborate what HCX processing is and how it is enabled? I personally find no difference using the Panasonic or Oppo player to send HDR signal for DTM.
How big is your screen?

The Panasonic players UB420, 820 and 9000 use the second generation HCX processor. The UB450 does not. In my set up, using 133" 1.85/125" 2.35:1 screen with the Panasonic gave me very smooth images.
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post #647 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 08:04 PM
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Gravi, since you said you have both the Oppo and the Panny, I'm posting a link to this video comparing the 203 with the 9000. The Panny was found to have less banding, but I don't know if this has anything to do with what I'm seeing in the Panny because in the video, that was found in conversion mode and I'm not sure if that carries over to HDR.

Anyway, here you go.

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post #648 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
How big is your screen?

The Panasonic players UB420, 820 and 9000 use the second generation HCX processor. The UB450 does not. In my set up, using 133" 1.85/125" 2.35:1 screen with the Panasonic gave me very smooth images.
I have a 125" diagonal scope screen, Panasonic 820. Turning optimizer off should disable all processing I thought.
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post #649 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it's a good thing i didn't sell off my madvr rig before testing this..

OT for this thread, folks can send pm for details.
There are quite a few people interested. Wouldn't a new thread be better?
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post #650 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gravi View Post
I have a 125" diagonal scope screen, Panasonic 820. Turning optimizer off should disable all processing I thought.
Turning off the optimizer is turning off one form of processing enhancement. If all processing were disabled, the player wouldn't work. Using F-B-F, DTM High with the Panasonic w/optimizer off, gave me the best results. My screen is 1.1 gain white and cable is fiber optic.

If you see no difference with either player using DTM, then by all means use what you like.
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post #651 of 1014 Old 10-23-2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
... you may want to start another thread with your findings unless, if it works, there will be direct comparisons to FW 3.10.
Please find the new thread at this link, let us go down the rabbit hole, to see how far the rabbit hole goes.



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...l#post58724442
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post #652 of 1014 Old 10-24-2019, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett
How does one get around the issue with Oppo 203/205 where BT2020 color space is reduced to Rec709?

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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I don't know that DV works like that. Besides, Dave mentions other players can be used in the purported innovation.
Well, that is apparently what happened when my Oppo 203 threw DV at my 760.

It was a fantastic picture too, I might add and the colours did not really look BT709-ish even though it said they were....

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How do you get a DV signal to a projector that can't accept a DV signal?
No fury involved when it happened to me.

It was only because I tried to tweak the picture (but all controls were locked out) that I realised that something was up.

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interesting article @skylarlove1999 . I figured pressing the info button for 3+ seconds would give you the data indicating DV, but the article indicates needing a HD FURY device to force this.
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post #655 of 1014 Old 10-24-2019, 04:59 AM
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So last night was "Day 2" of using FW version 3.10 and I noticed two issues:

1. On start up, the DI has some rapid clicking with simultaneous flickering on-screen right before the D-ILA logo appears.

Anyone else experiencing this?

2. The colors in the Frame Adapt mode are now off on my NX7, and I'm not sure if this is a bug in how the new firmware is designed but I see no option in Frame Adapt picture mode that will allow me to manually color calibrate. Going back into the BT2020 color profile, my calibration there doesn't seem to carry over.
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post #656 of 1014 Old 10-24-2019, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I'm not sure what the latest FW is for the Oppo 203.



I see someone else posted a link. What do you think after reading it?
Reading that color/saturation has to be adjusted, sounds like conversion is not being done correctly. Would like to see if others find the same, using different projectors.
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post #657 of 1014 Old 10-24-2019, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it's a good thing i didn't sell off my madvr rig before testing this..

OT for this thread, folks can send pm for details.
Can you shoot me an email on what you found? because I don't plan on buying a Vertex, just to test this.
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post #658 of 1014 Old 10-24-2019, 07:10 AM
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Can someone please enlighten us with details in terms of how well this new 'Frame Adapt HDR' feature works?

For example, I would firmly believe that this firmware is an attempt to compensate and/or compete with HDR10+.

Seeing there are a few HDR10+ discs out there, maybe the time for a native HDR10+ supported projector is not likely until the next generation.


Anyway, putting that aside, how well in terms of improvement over the static HDR10 rendition does the 'Frame Adapt HDR' perform with difficult titles?

Namingly, 'Goodfellas' and its very dark difficult scenes?

I'm sure there are plenty more examples, but haven't setup my theater as of yet, so haven't seen most titles in their 4K representation.
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post #659 of 1014 Old 10-24-2019, 07:14 AM
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Sure, but even if it works for Dolby Vision, HDR10 on sources that don’t have Dolby Vision isn’t a dynamic tone mapping encoding. You can’t magically turn HDR10 into Dolby Vision. Any more than you can change stereo into Dolby Atmos.
My AVR does an absolutely incredible job turning 2 channel audio into upscaled atmos. If a player can add DV like meta data on a frame-by-frame basis by measuring the frames and it did as good of a job as my AVR does for upscaling 2 channel to atmos, this will be a huge win.

Technically, I don't have a problem with something trying to patch together DV on the fly by doing some form of DTM on the stream. I am not sure what the feature in the Oppo is doing with "player led DV" or why that feature even exists in the player. Let's assume it does *something* or it wouldn't be there. But who knows what

Edit, doing some research, it appears Sony TV's don't have the horsepower to handle DV so they require the player to do some preprocessing. It's unclear what this means or what needs to be done. If it's some form of decoding where the player basically decodes the data into HDR mode by tone mapping it, then it wouldn't be limited to just Sony TV's I'd think. Unless it's some requirement by Dolby to limit to this use-case. It's also possible that if this is what a player was doing that it could try to do a quick and dirty tone map on content that wasnt DV to output in that format for improved picture. Here is what I uncovered although its still pretty vague:

"According to OPPO, who have communicated with some of its US based customers, Sony has adopted what they are calling a ‘low latency’ Dolby Vision profile, created specifically by Dolby to implement in Sony TVs. The decision for Sony to include Dolby Vision support in some of its high-end TVs came very late in the day at CES 2017 so it appears the hardware for Dolby Vision wasn’t fully in place and this low latency profile is something of a joint hack between the two parties.

For this low latency profile to work, OPPO says more pre-processing duties are placed on the source devices, whereas with other manufacturers, most of the processing work is undertaken on the TVs side. The up-shot of this is that firmware updates will be required from the likes of OPPO and Apple to make their devices work with this new profile. The onus on the source device to perform added processing lends further credence to the thought that the Mediatek SoCs deployed in these TVs were a little underpowered; they certainly don't appear to have much headroom, at least. It is understood that the quality of Dolby Vision HDR experience will not be affected once the firmware is in place.
"
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post #660 of 1014 Old 10-24-2019, 07:19 AM
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I got this to work on; initially I had a setting incorrect in the HDFury Maestro. This works as advertised. The Oppo reports Dolby Vision in, HDR out, and yes, the image is overcooked and needs some major adjustment.

I will move other comments to the other thread created by Bytehoven.

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