JVC Announces Major HDR Update for 4K D-ILA Projectors - Page 29 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #841 of 1014 Old 10-29-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by oferlaor View Post

3. With the complements out of the way, I would like to consult with you over the settings. I don't like running with a high lamp (both because of the noise factor, but also because I like a contrasty image and prefer darker blacks). Up until now, viewing HDR with a low lamp was a pain. Now, I'm running with the F-B-F, low lamp, wide cinema filter and playing around with the processing. Auto seems to always be equivalent to Low, which is too dark for most of the HDR content I was watching.

Watched both Watchment ultimate cut 4K (noisy on HDR, but very enjoyable film) and "Dolemite is my name" on Netflix. Medium seems to do it for me, since High brings out a bit too much video noise for my taste.

What do you guys think?
Auto will use a combination of all the modes. If it is too dark, then you would run the mode that looks the most accurate. It has worked very well on my NX7 on the 130" 2.35:1 screen, but I run high lamp.

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I heard about the yellowing effect. I was told this can occur on the log at the beginning or in subtitles/credits when the iris shifts position. What is the easiest way to replicate this issue?
Don't look for it. The DI issue was around on some of the e-shift models, we just never noticed it. If you see it in normal viewing and it bothers you, disable the DI. If you don't, leave it on and enjoy the DI's benefits.


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post #842 of 1014 Old 10-29-2019, 07:48 AM
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I watched the first season of Daybreak on my RS3000 with Lumagen and thought it looked pretty good.
The beginning pan scene of the city looks like they add noise to try to make it look like film or something, so there is this red and green speckle that is just a single 4k pixel here and there that throws it all off for me. All the outdoor post apocalypse scenes also have a heavy warm filter, and in some scenes it's just... wrong. The flashbacks are normal, although all the scenes seem to have the added noise effect. After a while we stopped seeing it and just enjoyed the show. Made it through ep 9 last night, anxious to watch the finale.

I think it is just jarring to go from ultra clean 4k UHD content to something like this. I've grown to expect perfect color and to be blown away by the picture quality, and then I watch something like this and think something broke on the projector, lol.
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post #843 of 1014 Old 10-29-2019, 08:41 AM
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... I'd love to read whether your "one box does it all" nVidia streamer is able to rival my 820/420 results for all HDR Netflix & BR content.
I sincerely wish I could invite you to come watch some content, if you ever find yourself on this side of the country, you are welcome to drop by.

It could be that I just haven't seen anything better, but what I see when watching any of my ripped content (all uncompressed blu ray and UHD content, about 29 terabytes so far) is the most amazing picture I have ever seen. I am truly in awe of what is on my screen, and I can't even fathom how it could be better. (edit - I attribute this to the projector, not to the player)

I've A/B'd with an actual disc spinner and I don't see any difference, not that I would expect it. A codec is a codec, and it does what it is supposed to do: convert the digital data to a digital video stream, and the output should be the same (before the Panasonic applies the static tone map).

Whether having the Panasonic do a static tone map on the content first and then having the JVC apply DTM to that processed image is better than just having the JVC do the DTM (or having MadVR or a Lumagen do it for that matter) should technically be the only differences here, and I think in the end it is all subjective as to which is better. I'm fairly convinced that while I could get better with a high end processor like MadVR or Lumagen, the differences would be small, like .5%, and for $5k+ I don't see the value.

My opinion, based on my understanding of tone mapping and the tech in the Panasonic and JVC, is that by using the Panasonic to tone map first, you are pre-baking the meal. Then all the JVC has to do is make sure to adjust the temperature of the oven to make sure it comes out perfect. A good chef starting from scratch will have more control over the cooking process from start to finish, but you have to trust the chef that it knows how to cook. I think my JVC is a good chef and can prepare a better meal than the premade one from Panasonic. That's just my opinion though, and how you use your tech is totally up to you.

In contrast to the quality of uncompressed blu ray and UHD content, Netflix and Amazon will never hold a candle. If anything, having such an amazing projector makes me notice the artifacts of a compressed stream more than I would have in a lesser setup. It still looks great and I feel like it simply can't get better as long as Netflix is limiting a 4k stream to under 15mbps. So I have no real point of reference. I haven't seen Netflix better with any player/TV combo, so I have nothing that makes me think I am not getting the best possible image with the Shield playing through the JVC.

I see frame matching issues on FireTV all the time, but never on the Shield. That's one of the reasons I like it so much - it just works with everything. Maybe someday I will try a different streamer and realize what I am missing, but when you already have the best you have ever seen and you are happy with it, why would you want to try to find better? What if you find that the only thing better costs $10k more and now you don't feel like you have the best... It's a slippery slope.

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post #844 of 1014 Old 10-29-2019, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
I sincerely wish I could invite you to come watch some content, if you ever find yourself on this side of the country, you are welcome to drop by.

It could be that I just haven't seen anything better, but what I see when watching any of my ripped content (all uncompressed blu ray and UHD content, about 29 terabytes so far) is the most amazing picture I have ever seen. I am truly in awe of what is on my screen, and I can't even fathom how it could be better. (edit - I attribute this to the projector, not to the player)

I've A/B'd with an actual disc spinner and I don't see any difference, not that I would expect it. A codec is a codec, and it does what it is supposed to do: convert the digital data to a digital video stream, and the output should be the same (before the Panasonic applies the static tone map).

Whether having the Panasonic do a static tone map on the content first and then having the JVC apply DTM to that processed image is better than just having the JVC do the DTM (or having MadVR or a Lumagen do it for that matter) should technically be the only differences here, and I think in the end it is all subjective as to which is better. I'm fairly convinced that while I could get better with a high end processor like MadVR or Lumagen, the differences would be small, like .5%, and for $5k+ I don't see the value.

My opinion, based on my understanding of tone mapping and the tech in the Panasonic and JVC, is that by using the Panasonic to tone map first, you are pre-baking the meal. Then all the JVC has to do is make sure to adjust the temperature of the oven to make sure it comes out perfect. A good chef starting from scratch will have more control over the cooking process from start to finish, but you have to trust the chef that it knows how to cook. I think my JVC is a good chef and can prepare a better meal than the premade one from Panasonic. That's just my opinion though, and how you use your tech is totally up to you.

In contrast to the quality of uncompressed blu ray and UHD content, Netflix and Amazon will never hold a candle. If anything, having such an amazing projector makes me notice the artifacts of a compressed stream more than I would have in a lesser setup. It still looks great and I feel like it simply can't get better as long as Netflix is limiting a 4k stream to under 15mbps. So I have no real point of reference. I haven't seen Netflix better with any player/TV combo, so I have nothing that makes me think I am not getting the best possible image with the Shield playing through the JVC.

I see frame matching issues on FireTV all the time, but never on the Shield. That's one of the reasons I like it so much - it just works with everything. Maybe someday I will try a different streamer and realize what I am missing, but when you already have the best you have ever seen and you are happy with it, why would you want to try to find better? What if you find that the only thing better costs $10k more and now you don't feel like you have the best... It's a slippery slope.
This is certainly a worthwhile perspective, since it all comes down to the subjective pleasure of the viewing experience. If you have access to Best Buy, I'd suggest that you (even, temporarily) obtain the UB420, if only to A/B potentially problematic HDR Netflix & high nit UHD Blu Ray source material with the Optimizer enabled PLUS JVC's DTM when compared with your nVidia streamer. I'd be very interested in your assessment.

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post #845 of 1014 Old 10-29-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Most 4K UHD content is just upscaled and frankly looks very similar.
I recall that there previously were lengthy discussions where it was shown that this is not the case. I believe that the explanation was that the mastering of UHD Blu Rays of recent movies which were not originally filmed in true 4K (but filmed at greater than 1080p) contained more information than if you merely took a 1080p Blu Ray and upscaled it to UHD, since additional data would be missing. Am I remembering that correctly?

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post #846 of 1014 Old 10-29-2019, 10:12 AM
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I recall that there previously were lengthy discussions where it was shown that this is not the case. I believe that the explanation was that the mastering of UHD Blu Rays of recent movies which were not originally filmed in true 4K (but filmed at greater than 1080p) contained more information than if you merely took a 1080p Blu Ray and upscaled it to UHD, since additional data would be missing. Am I remembering that correctly?
I recall a thread where they were looking at fine detail on a Blu Ray vs a 4K UHD disc with a 2k DI. The Martian was one of the comparisons and the 4K did show more detail despite the 2K DI. It's been a while though. No idea what subforum it was in.

Obviously material that is 4K end to end like Blade Runner 2049 or Murder on the Orient Express will show more detail.

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post #848 of 1014 Old 10-29-2019, 04:47 PM
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What am I doing wrong? I though this update would show 18-bit somewhere. I don't see 18-bit anywhere. NX7 with the Panny 9000
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post #849 of 1014 Old 10-29-2019, 07:39 PM
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What am I doing wrong? I though this update would show 18-bit somewhere. I don't see 18-bit anywhere. NX7 with the Panny 9000
Oh..that's because the update segment you're thinking about is for gamma.
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post #850 of 1014 Old 10-29-2019, 09:04 PM
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So I was reading what is required to do this firmware update. This is what JVC said.....

"Required Equipment

A PC capable of connecting to the Internet, downloading the firmware for updating from our website and extracting the zip file.
USB drive (1 GB or more, FAT32 format)"

I'm not any kind of computer expert. I have a MacBook and not a PC. Can this not be done on a MacBook? And I have no clue what FAT32 format is or means.

Maybe I need to have someone come hear to help me through this so I don't mess up my RS2000. It's looks great to me now, I can't imagine how it will look with this FW upgrade.

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post #851 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 02:05 AM
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@Mike Garrett

What specifically is missing on the ATV4K for you? is it Atmos for ripped content that's the only issue?

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post #852 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 05:39 AM
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What am I doing wrong? I though this update would show 18-bit somewhere. I don't see 18-bit anywhere. NX7 with the Panny 9000

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Oh..that's because the update segment you're thinking about is for gamma.
So can we see it say 18-bit anywhere in the Gamma menu window?
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post #853 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 05:57 AM
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What am I doing wrong? I though this update would show 18-bit somewhere. I don't see 18-bit anywhere. NX7 with the Panny 9000



So can we see it say 18-bit anywhere in the Gamma menu window?
I thought it was an uptick in the level of precision in the gamma processing to give smoother gradients etc. I am not sure it would mention it anywhere, but I could be wrong.

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post #854 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by oferlaor View Post
@Mike Garrett

What specifically is missing on the ATV4K for you? is it Atmos for ripped content that's the only issue?
I use Roku, not ATV4K. I do not do ripped content anymore. I wish I got Dolby atmos with Netflix using Roku Ultra. I am hoping Netflix adds Roku before the end of this year.

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post #855 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 08:23 AM
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I use Roku, not ATV4K. I do not do ripped content anymore. I wish I got Dolby atmos with Netflix using Roku Ultra. I am hoping Netflix adds Roku before the end of this year.
Mike, if you have any of the Panasonic UHD players (9000/820/420) and either a recent Marantz/Denon AVR or Yamaha RX-A1080/2080/3080, you'd be able to get Atmos from Panasonic's Netflix app.

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post #856 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
This is certainly a worthwhile perspective, since it all comes down to the subjective pleasure of the viewing experience. If you have access to Best Buy, I'd suggest that you (even, temporarily) obtain the UB420, if only to A/B potentially problematic HDR Netflix & high nit UHD Blu Ray source material with the Optimizer enabled PLUS JVC's DTM when compared with your nVidia streamer. I'd be very interested in your assessment.
The issue with using the Optimizer BEFORE the DTM of the JVC is that you are relying on the Panasonic to do a static tone map based on what is typically incomplete (or wrong) metadata for the content, thereby limiting the overall potential of the content before JVC even gets it.

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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
I recall that there previously were lengthy discussions where it was shown that this is not the case. I believe that the explanation was that the mastering of UHD Blu Rays of recent movies which were not originally filmed in true 4K (but filmed at greater than 1080p) contained more information than if you merely took a 1080p Blu Ray and upscaled it to UHD, since additional data would be missing. Am I remembering that correctly?
You are getting the benefit of 10 bit plus an increase in chroma resolution compared to a straight 2K SDR source. In the end, I would have overwhelmingly preferred that ANY content that is not a true 4K master was delivered on the format as 2K with 10-bit, WCG and HDR. Then they wouldn't have wasted space on an upscale. But marketing felt better about lying to the masses that the content they are watching is 4K.

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What am I doing wrong? I though this update would show 18-bit somewhere. I don't see 18-bit anywhere. NX7 with the Panny 9000
The new 18-bit gamma processing only applies to an HDR input and is used for better precision near black and for more precision in the gamma with the new DTM. It won't show up anywhere on the menus.

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Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post
So I was reading what is required to do this firmware update. This is what JVC said.....

"Required Equipment

A PC capable of connecting to the Internet, downloading the firmware for updating from our website and extracting the zip file.
USB drive (1 GB or more, FAT32 format)"

I'm not any kind of computer expert. I have a MacBook and not a PC. Can this not be done on a MacBook? And I have no clue what FAT32 format is or means.

Maybe I need to have someone come hear to help me through this so I don't mess up my RS2000. It's looks great to me now, I can't imagine how it will look with this FW upgrade.
I'm right up the road! I think you reached out for calibration services already, so we could always combine them if you're interested.

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I thought it was an uptick in the level of precision in the gamma processing to give smoother gradients etc. I am not sure it would mention it anywhere, but I could be wrong.
Pretty much, but nothing to do with gradients specifically, just precision for the HDR processing and DTM. Thankfully JVC rarely if ever has issues with banding/gradients unless it is baked into the content.
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post #857 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 09:32 AM
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The issue with using the Optimizer BEFORE the DTM of the JVC is that you are relying on the Panasonic to do a static tone map based on what is typically incomplete (or wrong) metadata for the content, thereby limiting the overall potential of the content before JVC even gets it.
Hey Kris,

At the time of the Panasonic 820 release, I thought it was stated that only a couple of discs had wrong metadata; is this no longer known to be the case - most discs have wrong data? Should the Optimizer just be turned off?
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post #858 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 09:38 AM
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Hey Kris,

At the time of the Panasonic 820 release, I thought it was stated that only a couple of discs had wrong metadata; is this no longer known to be the case - most discs have wrong data? Should the Optimizer just be turned off?
MaxCLL is missing from all the Disney/Fox titles. MaxCLL is frequently wrong on Warner and Sony titles and Metadata overall with Lionsgate is sketchy. The point of the Optimizer with Panasonic (with HDR output set to ON) is to help tone map the portion of the image that the display in use can't do with its light output. The point of the DTM in the JVC is to ignore all the metadata and actually tone map on a frame by frame or scene by scene basis based on analysis of the content itself. So using the Optimizer is going to change that content already before the JVC gets it and since the Panasonic is rolling off the high end already, the DTM doesn't get the benefit of seeing the full intended signal. It may still look fine, I just don't see the point in the compromise.

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post #859 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
MaxCLL is missing from all the Disney/Fox titles. MaxCLL is frequently wrong on Warner and Sony titles and Metadata overall with Lionsgate is sketchy. The point of the Optimizer with Panasonic (with HDR output set to ON) is to help tone map the portion of the image that the display in use can't do with its light output. The point of the DTM in the JVC is to ignore all the metadata and actually tone map on a frame by frame or scene by scene basis based on analysis of the content itself. So using the Optimizer is going to change that content already before the JVC gets it and since the Panasonic is rolling off the high end already, the DTM doesn't get the benefit of seeing the full intended signal. It may still look fine, I just don't see the point in the compromise.
So basically Kris, it's best to leave the Panasonic optimizer off and let JVC's DTM do the work?
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post #860 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post
So I was reading what is required to do this firmware update. This is what JVC said.....

"Required Equipment

A PC capable of connecting to the Internet, downloading the firmware for updating from our website and extracting the zip file.
USB drive (1 GB or more, FAT32 format)"

I'm not any kind of computer expert. I have a MacBook and not a PC. Can this not be done on a MacBook? And I have no clue what FAT32 format is or means.

Maybe I need to have someone come hear to help me through this so I don't mess up my RS2000. It's looks great to me now, I can't imagine how it will look with this FW upgrade.
Kris Deering is near you. Have him come and calibrate your projector. He would also do the firmware update for you.
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post #861 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 09:52 AM
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Pretty much, but nothing to do with gradients specifically, just precision for the HDR processing and DTM. Thankfully JVC rarely if ever has issues with banding/gradients unless it is baked into the content.
Oh. Really?

Point three on the first post of this thread states thusly:

3. Smooth gradation with 18-bit level gamma accuracy

The gamma processing accuracy, which in the past was based on 12-bit equivalent, has been improved to 18-bit and as a result gradation performance is dramatically improved. In any given scene, it reduces the banding effect in the bright portions and the crushing of dark portions. This provides accurate, smooth gradation along with higher average peak level brightness and increased color saturation, which has previously been a challenge with HDR content.


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post #862 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post
So basically Kris, it's best to leave the Panasonic optimizer off and let JVC's DTM do the work?
There is no perfect answer, either way will deliver an image. I just don't see the point in potentially compromising the picture performance of the DTM. If the DTM was clearly struggling with some aspect that the Optimizer is designed to fix, that would be one thing. But I can't think of any reason you would need the Optimizer before it.

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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Oh. Really?

Point three on the first post of this thread states thusly:

3. Smooth gradation with 18-bit level gamma accuracy

The gamma processing accuracy, which in the past was based on 12-bit equivalent, has been improved to 18-bit and as a result gradation performance is dramatically improved. In any given scene, it reduces the banding effect in the bright portions and the crushing of dark portions. This provides accurate, smooth gradation along with higher average peak level brightness and increased color saturation, which has previously been a challenge with HDR content.

LOL. You are becoming the king of just using marketing. I am not relying on market speak, I asked the engineers specifically what the point of the the increase in bit depth was and what signals it applied to (all or just HDR). I gave the information, but if it feels better for you to feel right based on marketing spiel, be my guest.

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post #863 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post
So I was reading what is required to do this firmware update. This is what JVC said.....

"Required Equipment

A PC capable of connecting to the Internet, downloading the firmware for updating from our website and extracting the zip file.
USB drive (1 GB or more, FAT32 format)"

I'm not any kind of computer expert. I have a MacBook and not a PC. Can this not be done on a MacBook? And I have no clue what FAT32 format is or means.

Maybe I need to have someone come hear to help me through this so I don't mess up my RS2000. It's looks great to me now, I can't imagine how it will look with this FW upgrade.
Jim, I will send you a PM to try to help.
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post #864 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
There is no perfect answer, either way will deliver an image. I just don't see the point in potentially compromising the picture performance of the DTM. If the DTM was clearly struggling with some aspect that the Optimizer is designed to fix, that would be one thing. But I can't think of any reason you would need the Optimizer before it.



LOL. You are becoming the king of just using marketing. I am not relying on market speak, I asked the engineers specifically what the point of the the increase in bit depth was and what signals it applied to (all or just HDR). I gave the information, but if it feels better for you to feel right based on marketing spiel, be my guest.
Errrrm, not sure what is with the rather dismissive attitude there Kris...?

I merely made a comment based on observation (reading) and somehow you are now calling me (to all intents and purposes) a marketing junkie?

Where has that come from? Did I do something to you?

I just read what everyone else did/can at the start of this thread. Also at no point did I say 'I am right' I gave an answer to a post that you said wasn't entirely accurate and then I showed you were I had read the info, and then you basically round on me. Very peculiar.

If that first post is inaccurate, it should be altered/redacted. Take it up with @imagic not me. I didn't start this thread...

Flumoxed.
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post #865 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Errrrm, not sure what is with the rather dismissive attitude there Kris...?

I merely made a comment based on observation (reading) and somehow you are now calling me (to all intents and purposes) a marketing junkie?

Where has that come from? Did I do something to you?

I just read what everyone else did/can at the start of this thread. Also at no point did I say 'I am right' I gave an answer to a post that you said wasn't entirely accurate and then I showed you were I had read the info, and then you basically round on me. Very peculiar.

If that first post is inaccurate, it should be altered/redacted. Take it up with @imagic not me. I didn't start this thread...

Flumoxed.
This same type of argument happened with you and kris in one of the Sony threads, when you kept saying Kris was wrong regarding DTM on the Sony projectors. You were reading marketing material saying that the Sony projectors were doing DTM on HDR content.
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post #866 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
This same type of argument happened with you and kris in one of the Sony threads, when you kept saying Kris was wrong regarding DTM on the Sony projectors. You were reading marketing material saying that the Sony projectors were doing DTM on HDR content.
Again, flummoxed.

What argument am I supposed to be having? (Rhetorical).

I was not saying he, or anyone else, is wrong. I merely read the first post and said the 18bit gamma is supposed to improve gradations. Only to be rounded on about marketing.

I read it on here, not JVCs website.

I was not arguing about anything just wondering why his view differed to that in the first post. No shakes.

I seem to remember you jumped to his defence before too..... You sir, are a top wingman, I will give you that.

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post #867 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
This same type of argument happened with you and kris in one of the Sony threads, when you kept saying Kris was wrong regarding DTM on the Sony projectors. You were reading marketing material saying that the Sony projectors were doing DTM on HDR content.
Wow, that is going back!

I don't recall it being about DTM as such, I think it was more about the frame by frame processing of the Contrast Enhancer feature maybe acting like it. DTM is not mentioned in any Sony marketing, as it simply is not present.

However, since when were differing opinions and discussions outlawed on here in any event?

By all means, you two carry on putting misinformation to bed, that is what we all want, but please don't ever get in any way personal over it.

If Kris had just typed "Hi, Archy. What you have read is pure marketing. I have spoken to JVC engineers who say etc etc".

I would have just said, 'ahh okay, cool' to that and not gone any further with it.

All I did was try to answer someone's question about why there was no reference to the 18bit element of the update for pity's sake! Only for you two to take me to task about some perceived penchant I apparently have about reading of marketing material. Silly me....

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post #868 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 12:32 PM
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I've gone from an RS46 to an RS520 to an NX7. I can't fathom a scenario where you wouldn't be picking your jaw up off the floor making the leap from an RS2 to an NX7.
lol, ain't that the truth.......
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post #869 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Wow, that is going back!

I don't recall it being about DTM as such, I think it was more about the frame by frame processing of the Contrast Enhancer feature maybe acting like it. DTM is not mentioned in any Sony marketing, as it simply is not present.

However, since when were differing opinions and discussions outlawed on here in any event?

By all means, you two carry on putting misinformation to bed, that is what we all want, but please don't ever get in any way personal over it.

If Kris had just typed "Hi, Archy. What you have read is pure marketing. I have spoken to JVC engineers who say etc etc".

I would have just said, 'ahh okay, cool' to that and not gone any further with it.

All I did was try to answer someone's question about why there was no reference to the 18bit element of the update for pity's sake! Only for you two to take me to task about some perceived penchant I apparently have about reading of marketing material. Silly me....
Wow, this spun out after I left the house. Didn't mean it as a personal attack so much, hence the LOL at the beginning. I do remember going round a bit with you on the "per frame adjustment" with the Sony though and saying that was marketing too. I thought my first post of saying exactly what this was pretty much was saying what it was without the marketing spin, then you decided to chime in quoting the marketing. No worries though, I just wanted to ensure folks knew that the increased bit depth applies ONLY to HDR content more than anything.

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post #870 of 1014 Old 10-30-2019, 12:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Wow, that is going back!



I don't recall it being about DTM as such, I think it was more about the frame by frame processing of the Contrast Enhancer feature maybe acting like it. DTM is not mentioned in any Sony marketing, as it simply is not present.



However, since when were differing opinions and discussions outlawed on here in any event?



By all means, you two carry on putting misinformation to bed, that is what we all want, but please don't ever get in any way personal over it.



If Kris had just typed "Hi, Archy. What you have read is pure marketing. I have spoken to JVC engineers who say etc etc".



I would have just said, 'ahh okay, cool' to that and not gone any further with it.



All I did was try to answer someone's question about why there was no reference to the 18bit element of the update for pity's sake! Only for you two to take me to task about some perceived penchant I apparently have about reading of marketing material. Silly me....
Could it have been Kris was a bit miffed at you quoting his post about the 18bit , calling him out , and then you typing Oh really with two question marks for emphasis? Maybe that wasn't the best way to begin a dialogue.

Could you have just pm'd Kris to inquire about the whole thing, rather than challenging his information in public on the forum?

For the professionals on here I would imagine it becomes quite difficult having amateur hobbyists call into question their expertise, especially in the manner in which you did it. My grandmother always said if you pick a fight don't complain to me when they sock you back.

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