JVC Announces Major HDR Update for 4K D-ILA Projectors - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 1013 Old 11-08-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
To eliminate the AVR, have you tried connecting the 9000 directly to the JVC?
Actually no I haven't tried that yet. Good idea thanks!
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post #992 of 1013 Old 11-08-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by surroundsound99 View Post
Actually no I haven't tried that yet. Good idea thanks!
Can you post a picture of the JVC info screen?
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post #993 of 1013 Old 11-08-2019, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Can you post a picture of the JVC info screen?
Here are the pictures, and they are of that scene I was referencing. I took another look at this scene in frame by frame and this time the ship in the foreground did seem to stutter somewhat, but the PJ wasn't very warmed up either.
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post #994 of 1013 Old 11-09-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by surroundsound99 View Post
Here are the pictures, and they are of that scene I was referencing. I took another look at this scene in frame by frame and this time the ship in the foreground did seem to stutter somewhat, but the PJ wasn't very warmed up either.
Turn off or turn down your overlay processing. Go to the MPC window and set Smoothing to 0 and Enhance to 1 or 2 and see if that has any positive effect.

Also, you might want to experiment and change the MPC setting from Hi-Res to Standard.
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post #995 of 1013 Old 11-09-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by surroundsound99 View Post
Here are the pictures, and they are of that scene I was referencing. I took another look at this scene in frame by frame and this time the ship in the foreground did seem to stutter somewhat, but the PJ wasn't very warmed up either.
When doing testing like this, be sure and not just back up to the scene you want to compare. You should take it back farther, so that the tone mapping can be established so that it will be correct when it gets to the scene you want to compare. Otherwise it could look different each time.
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post #996 of 1013 Old 11-09-2019, 04:27 PM
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Anyone think there is a chance their will be any update to HDR for the RS440 line of JVC projectors?

I'm pretty happy with the HDR curves I am using from javs, but once I saw this announcement I wondered why they didn't include others like the rs440? The standard HDR mode is pretty terrible.

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post #997 of 1013 Old 11-09-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dalumberjack View Post
Anyone think there is a chance their will be any update to HDR for the RS440 line of JVC projectors?

I'm pretty happy with the HDR curves I am using from javs, but once I saw this announcement I wondered why they didn't include others like the rs440? The standard HDR mode is pretty terrible.
This has been discussed already. The answer is no. The older JVC projectors simply do not have the horsepower for Dynamic tone mapping.
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post #998 of 1013 Old 11-09-2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
This has been discussed already. The answer is no. The older JVC projectors simply do not have the horsepower for Dynamic tone mapping.
Appreciate the rehash.

Tried a thread search, but obviously didn't search the correct terms as I got nothing.

Well, guess I hold out and hope maybe next year we will get a projector with hdr10+, since we will probably never get Dolby vision.
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post #999 of 1013 Old 11-09-2019, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalumberjack View Post
Anyone think there is a chance their will be any update to HDR for the RS440 line of JVC projectors?

I'm pretty happy with the HDR curves I am using from javs, but once I saw this announcement I wondered why they didn't include others like the rs440? The standard HDR mode is pretty terrible.
I agree with NO, JVC not likely to do anything with our eshift units.

Still, there are other possible alternatives to extend the life of your RS440.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalumberjack View Post
Appreciate the rehash.

Tried a thread search, but obviously didn't search the correct terms as I got nothing.

Well, guess I hold out and hope maybe next year we will get a projector with hdr10+, since we will probably never get Dolby vision.
Check out the link in my sig. There is a discussion that might be an option for you. I'm lovin' it with my x990 (RS640).
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post #1000 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 09:36 AM
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I am still trying to find the differences between OPPO 203,Panasonic UB9000 and UB820 wih JVC DTM. But I can't find much difference in PQ (if I turn everything off at Panasonic then the difference between 9000 and 820 is for me 0). Is it worth investing in a more expensive player?


Thank you
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post #1001 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by riddle View Post
I am still trying to find the differences between OPPO 203,Panasonic UB9000 and UB820 wih JVC DTM. But I can't find much difference in PQ (if I turn everything off at Panasonic then the difference between 9000 and 820 is for me 0). Is it worth investing in a more expensive player?


Thank you
My (Opinion) is No don't waste your monies on another expensive player.

I had the UB820 then exchanged it for the current UB9000 and it performs just fine with my JVC RS4500 Laser Projector IMO.

I think sometimes we all should maybe enjoy what we have and not constantly looking for some Ultra-Small-Improvement that is hardly noticeable.


Terry
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post #1002 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
My (Opinion) is No don't waste your monies on another expensive player.

I had the UB820 then exchanged it for the current UB9000 and it performs just fine with my JVC RS4500 Laser Projector IMO.

I think sometimes we all should maybe enjoy what we have and not constantly looking for some Ultra-Small-Improvement that is hardly noticeable.


Terry

Thanks, so that whatever I choose I can not lose. :-) In terms of price / performance looks for me win for UB820 if PQ is similar to others with HDR optimilizer OFF.
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post #1003 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 10:58 AM
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Thanks, so that whatever I choose I can not lose. :-) In terms of price / performance looks for me win for UB820 if PQ is similar to others with HDR optimilizer OFF.
This is precisely why I decided to stick with my Oppo UDP-203 - I had been on the verge of buying a UB9000 for its HDR Optimizer when I read about the forthcoming DTM upgrade for my RS1000.

I had just traded in my unopened RS440 on the RS1000 after a year's delay in finishing my theater room, so the DTM upgrade - which made the Panasonic HDR Optimizer unnecessary - effectively reduced the cost of my projector upgrade by the $1,000 price of the UB9000.


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post #1004 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 11:10 AM
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This is precisely why I decided to stick with my Oppo UDP-203 - I had been on the verge of getting a UB9000 for its HDR Optimizer when I read about the forthcoming DTM upgrade for my RS1000.

I had just traded in my unopened RS440 on the RS1000 after a year's delay in finishing my theater room, so the DTM upgrade effectively reduced the cost of the projector upgrade by the $1,000 price of the UB9000.
If you happen to have one of the last three (3) JVC lamp based projectors then it makes more than likely no difference what player you have.
All of those now have I think the DTM available ............

In my case I have the RS4500 laser and as it stands currently it does not have the DTM.
(That hopefully will change in the months coming)

I do use the UB9000 and it works just fine.

Terry
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post #1005 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 11:43 AM
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Well the test I have been waiting for is finally happening today. The ultimate tester will sit down and give their unbiased opinion on JVC frame adapt vs MadVR the latest build. This person has never had a problem telling me what they thought for over 30+ years and not holding back so she will tell me which one is better and by how much. I am sure she will have some choice words on how crazy I am mixed in there....wish me luck and I will report back.

Yes the tester is my wife and we will be looking at several scenes in different movies. My big question is for her, is JVC good enough or she really wants to watch movies with MadVR because it is that much better.
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post #1006 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 12:38 PM
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I agree with NO, JVC not likely to do anything with our eshift units.

Still, there are other possible alternatives to extend the life of your RS440.
RS440 is a great projector along with any of the other e-shift units...... What great units
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post #1007 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 12:42 PM
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Well the test I have been waiting for is finally happening today. The ultimate tester will sit down and give their unbiased opinion on JVC frame adapt vs MadVR the latest build. This person has never had a problem telling me what they thought for over 30+ years and not holding back so she will tell me which one is better and by how much. I am sure she will have some choice words on how crazy I am mixed in there....wish me luck and I will report back.

Yes the tester is my wife and we will be looking at several scenes in different movies. My big question is for her, is JVC good enough or she really wants to watch movies with MadVR because it is that much better.
Make sure it's a blind test :-)

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My build thread
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post #1008 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 03:33 PM
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Make sure it's a blind test :-)
Yes,
Make sure she is blindfolded.
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post #1009 of 1013 Old 11-10-2019, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Well the test I have been waiting for is finally happening today. The ultimate tester will sit down and give their unbiased opinion on JVC frame adapt vs MadVR the latest build. This person has never had a problem telling me what they thought for over 30+ years and not holding back so she will tell me which one is better and by how much. I am sure she will have some choice words on how crazy I am mixed in there....wish me luck and I will report back.

Yes the tester is my wife and we will be looking at several scenes in different movies. My big question is for her, is JVC good enough or she really wants to watch movies with MadVR because it is that much better.
Well just finished doing the test. It is very interesting when you turn off the new firmware and then turn it on how much better it is and how much you missed in the movies without it.

With all that said, MadVR is not going away for me. For movies I own the up scaling and the HDR is just way too good. She was like keep doing it because it is much better. It is interesting how the shadow detail, color and contrast is so different. I would say that much of what the difference in this hobby today is a matter of inches, however this is more like feet, not miles. It is much more involved and requires the right DVD drive with firmware so more hassle.

However the JVC HDR is really good so don't feel like you are missing some massive things.

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post #1010 of 1013 Old 11-11-2019, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by riddle View Post
I am still trying to find the differences between OPPO 203,Panasonic UB9000 and UB820 wih JVC DTM. But I can't find much difference in PQ (if I turn everything off at Panasonic then the difference between 9000 and 820 is for me 0). Is it worth investing in a more expensive player?


Thank you
My (Opinion) is No don't waste your monies on another expensive player.

I had the UB820 then exchanged it for the current UB9000 and it performs just fine with my JVC RS4500 Laser Projector IMO.

I think sometimes we all should maybe enjoy what we have and not constantly looking for some Ultra-Small-Improvement that is hardly noticeable.


Terry
Agreed, sometimes we just Spend a little too much time looking for that extra 5-10% and don’t fully enjoy what we have. I know I have been guilty of that for sure.
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post #1011 of 1013 Old 11-11-2019, 02:45 PM
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Agreed, sometimes we just Spend a little too much time looking for that extra 5-10% and don’t fully enjoy what we have. I know I have been guilty of that for sure.
It took me about 10 years to stop listening to the noise.
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post #1012 of 1013 Old 11-11-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
To eliminate the AVR, have you tried connecting the 9000 directly to the JVC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Turn off or turn down your overlay processing. Go to the MPC window and set Smoothing to 0 and Enhance to 1 or 2 and see if that has any positive effect.

Also, you might want to experiment and change the MPC setting from Hi-Res to Standard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
When doing testing like this, be sure and not just back up to the scene you want to compare. You should take it back farther, so that the tone mapping can be established so that it will be correct when it gets to the scene you want to compare. Otherwise it could look different each time.
Okay I spent almost 2 hours on this and what made the biggest difference of all was...

A nice and warmed up lamp and projector!! ... and possibly the rest of the system being warmed up too.

That definitely made the biggest difference of all. No question. I sat down, turned everything on, checked the settings to see they were the same as before (frame by frame, MPC Enhanced 5, Smoothing 2,) ran that scene and the stuttering was there just like before, maybe a little less though. Experimented with your suggestions and started to see improvements. However, after some time to warm up, when I went back to the original settings...the stuttering was much improved compared to when I had just turned the system on. So a warmed up lamp and pj and system made the biggest difference of all, no doubt. No matter what I tried though, that scene wasn't completely 100% perfect but, I think it's just one of those scenes that is tough on a home projector. The lighting is funny, and the buildings seem slightly out of focus,. Overall though, it was the combination of both your suggestions, and, a warmed up system, that made a absolute HUGE difference so thank you.

Aztar35, your MPC suggestions made an enormous difference BUT...not so much in the scene at 4:21...but rather it made a world of difference in the scene right before it, in the picture below. The "screen-door effect" in the building I'm pointing to was almost 100% gone! A HUGE improvement. There was still some, ever so slight, but it only comes at the last second, and even then it was there was more of a color problem than anything else. So thank you for that suggestion! That takes care of the screen door problem! This is why I joined this site.

I did not experiment with changing the MPC settings from Hi-res to Standard because I just didn't see your suggestion until after the fact. So it was on Hi-res the whole time.

Mike, I connected the 9000 directly to the NX7 and back again, twice. My first impressions on the first try was that it made a definite difference in just about everything! (A very un-scientific analysis, I know.) But as I went along, the differences seemed less further apart, perhaps because the system was getting more and more warmed up.

When connected directly, I lose the ability to tweak the AVR850 because I can't see the Setup menu on-screen. So it's a toss-up as to what's more important. I'll have to experiment more. I think to really tell I need another Real4K adapater and run two of them to the PJ so I can do A/B comparisons without having to swap things around manually.

As far as your suggestion to rewind over a few scenes, I tried to for the most part but I was a little impatient sometimes, but thank you for that idea.

Thank you both for the help!
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post #1013 of 1013 Old 11-12-2019, 10:21 AM
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Well, guess I hold out and hope maybe next year we will get a projector with hdr10+, since we will probably never get Dolby vision.
Honestly DTM makes both largely irrelevant. It's simply looking at frame data to change the same picture elements HDR10+/DV do via constantly changing metadata. DV does still have a slight color bit depth advantage, but nothing I'd lose sleep over.
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