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post #151 of 180 Old 10-11-2019, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
It is look it up
I believe you might be referring to the review I linked below . The way Art worded the section on HDR Tone Mapping could easily be interpreted as scene by scene dynamic tone mapping.

But the Benq projectors do auto tone mapping not dynamic tone mapping. Their website would certainly make prominent mention of dynamic tone mapping if indeed the 5550 was capable of scene by scene tone mapping.

https://www.projectorreviews.com/ben...al-features-1/


https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector...ma/ht5550.html

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post #152 of 180 Old 10-11-2019, 10:08 AM
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Epson LS500 Laser Projection TV 2019

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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The post was not correct. Frame by frame is dynamic tone mapping. Only way to get that by projector alone is to get an RS1000/NX5, RS2000/NX7 or RS3000/NX9, as you stated in your earlier post. You can add it to some projectors by buying a Lumagen or building a high end HTPC with MadVR. Or wait for the MadVR Envy.


Curious why you thought I was wrong? You shouldn’t just assume things. Perhaps, your motivation to sell JVC products at your store is clouding your objectivity.

LG


https://www.lg.com/us/home-video/lg-...0aAhiXEALw_wcB


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post #153 of 180 Old 10-11-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
Curious why you thought I was wrong? You shouldn’t just assume things. Perhaps, your motivation to sell JVC products at your store is clouding your objectivity.

LG


https://www.lg.com/us/home-video/lg-...0aAhiXEALw_wcB


BenQ


https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector...ma/ht3550.html
The LG projector does do dynamic tone mapping. The BenQ projectors do not. Seems everybody was right and wrong. Thank you for showing us the LG projector. It has been well received as a projector.

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post #154 of 180 Old 10-11-2019, 02:17 PM
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Epson LS500 Laser Projection TV 2019

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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
The LG projector does do dynamic tone mapping. The BenQ projectors do not. Seems everybody was right and wrong. Thank you for showing us the LG projector. It has been well received as a projector.

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I will admit that while the BenQ certainly suggests that it has Dynamic Tone Mapping it likely doesn’t. The quote “ Dynamic Black analyzes the scenes brightness to optimize light output and contrast” suggests that it does. I concede I was likely duped by cleverly worded marketing material.

Just curious, If they’re analyzing the meta data and shifting the grey scale with the light output in conjunction with the Iris, could it effectively be shifting grey scale the same way dynamic tone mapping does only physically rather than software.

However they do it, BenQ has received a lot of praise for avoiding the strange anomalies that happen with tone mapping meta data issues most other projectors have been plagued with when presenting HDR material.
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post #155 of 180 Old 10-11-2019, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
I will admit that while the BenQ certainly suggests that it has Dynamic Tone Mapping it likely doesn’t. The quote “ Dynamic Black analyzes the scenes brightness to optimize light output and contrast” suggests that it does. I concede I was likely duped by cleverly worded marketing material.

Just curious, If they’re analyzing the meta data and shifting the grey scale with the light output in conjunction with the Iris, could it effectively be shifting grey scale the same way dynamic tone mapping does only physically rather than software.

However they do it, BenQ has received a lot of praise for avoiding the strange anomalies that happen with tone mapping meta data issues most other projectors have been plagued with when presenting HDR material.
I agree they deserve praise for their HDR implementation, however they are doing it. They tend to lack a little in black level and the colors can appear oversaturated without somebody adjustments to gamma but they definitely have stepped up their game. It would be amazing is projector manufacturers collaborated for HDR rather than competed. We could harness all the best ideas in one projector so their could actually be a standard.

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post #156 of 180 Old 10-11-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
I agree they deserve praise for their HDR implementation, however they are doing it. They tend to lack a little in black level and the colors can appear oversaturated without somebody adjustments to gamma but they definitely have stepped up their game. It would be amazing is projector manufacturers collaborated for HDR rather than competed. We could harness all the best ideas in one projector so their could actually be a standard.

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Totally agree, I keep seeing 8k stuff at CES, and I’m thinking “can you industry people fix the 4k stuff you released 8+ years ago befofore you take on this whole 8k thing?”
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post #157 of 180 Old 10-11-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
Totally agree, I keep seeing 8k stuff at CES, and I’m thinking “can you industry people fix the 4k stuff you released 8+ years ago befofore you take on this whole 8k thing?”
I love this comment like Han loved Leia.

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post #158 of 180 Old 10-11-2019, 10:19 PM
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Some places are saying that it’s possible to wall/ceiling mount it and some say it doesn’t.
Can someone tell for sure if it’s a yes or no?
Thanks!
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post #159 of 180 Old 10-12-2019, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assafzi View Post
Some places are saying that it’s possible to wall/ceiling mount it and some say it doesn’t.
Can someone tell for sure if it’s a yes or no?
Thanks!

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Originally Posted by kraine View Post
The answer is yes.
@kraine already answered your question @Assafzi and they physically have one.
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post #160 of 180 Old 10-12-2019, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonBenji View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assafzi View Post
Some places are saying that it’️s possible to wall/ceiling mount it and some say it doesn’️t.
Can someone tell for sure if it’️s a yes or no?
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post
The answer is yes.
@kraine already answered your question @Assafzi and they physically have one.
I’ve translated the russian user guide and found this warning about mounting it, can you please explain it’s purpose? https://ibb.co/M66k1Pc
Thanks!
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post #161 of 180 Old 10-17-2019, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
Can this be used with a AT screen (dark room only, no cares about ALR)? I was unsure if the UST feature imposed additional screen requirements that would be incompatible with acoustic transparency.
x2

A dlp ust will spill. will this?
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post #162 of 180 Old 10-20-2019, 12:10 PM
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Here's a detailed review:

http://cine4home.de/erster-test-epso...neues-segment/

use google translate for your language of choice.
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post #163 of 180 Old 10-21-2019, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
Curious why you thought I was wrong? You shouldn’t just assume things. Perhaps, your motivation to sell JVC products at your store is clouding your objectivity.

LG


https://www.lg.com/us/home-video/lg-...0aAhiXEALw_wcB


BenQ


https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector...ma/ht3550.html
Enhanced tone mapping is not dynamic tone mapping. You do know that most large dealers sell JVC, Sony, Epson, BenQ, LG and many other brands? You are spreading wrong information. Dynamic iris, nor dynamic black are dynamic tone mapping.
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post #164 of 180 Old 10-21-2019, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
I will admit that while the BenQ certainly suggests that it has Dynamic Tone Mapping it likely doesn’t. The quote “ Dynamic Black analyzes the scenes brightness to optimize light output and contrast” suggests that it does. I concede I was likely duped by cleverly worded marketing material.

Just curious, If they’re analyzing the meta data and shifting the grey scale with the light output in conjunction with the Iris, could it effectively be shifting grey scale the same way dynamic tone mapping does only physically rather than software.

However they do it, BenQ has received a lot of praise for avoiding the strange anomalies that happen with tone mapping meta data issues most other projectors have been plagued with when presenting HDR material.
DTM in a projector, does not use the metadata. It does not need to, if it is analyzing each frame. That is one of the advantages of DTM, it ignores the metadata, movies or shows with wrong or missing metadata still tone map correctly.
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post #165 of 180 Old 10-22-2019, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
DTM in a projector, does not use the metadata. It does not need to, if it is analyzing each frame. That is one of the advantages of DTM, it ignores the metadata, movies or shows with wrong or missing metadata still tone map correctly.


That’s interesting, is DTM an industry standard or is it a generic term? Is it a hardware or software based? I’m guessing if everybody has their own proprietary DTM software it’s benefits would vary from “great improvement” to “actually worse”.
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post #166 of 180 Old 10-23-2019, 04:37 AM
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So pretty sure I want this to be my projector but upset it’s not available here in the US yet. Wish I could get it shipped here from Europe.


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post #167 of 180 Old 10-23-2019, 04:50 AM
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So pretty sure I want this to be my projector but upset it’s not available here in the US yet. Wish I could get it shipped here from Europe.


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Which projector are you talking about?

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post #168 of 180 Old 10-23-2019, 04:51 AM
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Which projector are you talking about?

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The Epson EH LS500. Its hard to wait...


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post #169 of 180 Old 10-23-2019, 04:53 AM
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The Epson EH LS500. Its hard to wait...


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My bad . I was thinking I was in another thread. Yes this projection television looks pretty impressive

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post #170 of 180 Old 10-23-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
That’s interesting, is DTM an industry standard or is it a generic term? Is it a hardware or software based? I’m guessing if everybody has their own proprietary DTM software it’s benefits would vary from “great improvement” to “actually worse”.
With HDR, it is tone mapped on nearly all displays, so manufacturers keep working on better ways to do this. The latest solution is to do this dynamically, rather than using static curves. The reason for this is a static curve is based on the brightest scene in the image. The problem with that method is due to one scene, the whole movie could be shown too dark. Dynamic tone mapping solves that problem. It does this because it analyzes each scene or each frame and adjusts the brightness needed. And the better the tone mapping the smaller the padding (reserve headroom) can be. This means you get maximum brightness for each scene/frame based on the capability of the system. The second problem with static tone mapping systems, they depend on metadata being there and when this data is missing or wrong, then the equipment does not know what to do and reverts to a generic curve. There are no industry standards for how to achieve good DTM results. DTM is a software solution, so any projector manufacturer can develop a DTM solution if they want to put the effort in.
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post #171 of 180 Old 10-23-2019, 08:56 AM
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With HDR, it is tone mapped on nearly all displays, so manufacturers keep working on better ways to do this. The latest solution is to do this dynamically, rather than using static curves. The reason for this is a static curve is based on the brightest scene in the image. The problem with that method is due to one scene, the whole movie could be shown too dark. Dynamic tone mapping solves that problem. It does this because it analyzes each scene or each frame and adjusts the brightness needed. And the better the tone mapping the smaller the padding (reserve headroom) can be. This means you get maximum brightness for each scene/frame based on the capability of the system. The second problem with static tone mapping systems, they depend on metadata being there and when this data is missing or wrong, then the equipment does not know what to do and reverts to a generic curve. There are no industry standards for how to achieve good DTM results. DTM is a software solution, so any projector manufacturer can develop a DTM solution if they want to put the effort in.
Mike thanks for that amazing explanation of the differences between dynamic and static tone mapping. Honestly it was so clear and informative. Thanks again.

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post #172 of 180 Old 12-25-2019, 01:55 PM
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Any news on the Epson LS500 release in the US?


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post #173 of 180 Old 01-07-2020, 10:02 AM
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Welcome to CES 2020 - now where the hell is this projector?
I need reviews, details, I want this to be the low(er) lag answer to my 4K HDR big screen wants.
Fill the hole in my soul, Epson... where you at?
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post #174 of 180 Old 01-07-2020, 10:09 AM
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Welcome to CES 2020 - now where the hell is this projector?

I need reviews, details, I want this to be the low(er) lag answer to my 4K HDR big screen wants.

Fill the hole in my soul, Epson... where you at?
March 2020 last I heard.

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post #175 of 180 Old 01-11-2020, 02:14 PM
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In this video (in french) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTLhm0PpHS0 the guy say that the LS500 will have a 1440:1 contrast (it compared it to the LS100 who had a 300:1 contrast so it should be honest)
I hope that is ANSI contrast.
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post #176 of 180 Old 01-11-2020, 03:20 PM
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I hope that is ANSI contrast.
It's likely native on/off.

Here'a review with lumen and contrast measurements:
https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/
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post #177 of 180 Old 01-14-2020, 10:36 AM
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And another less sanguine review:

http://cine4home.de/erster-test-epso...neues-segment/
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post #178 of 180 Old 01-15-2020, 11:23 AM
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Thanks for that. Another one to strike off the list, judging by the "foggy" black levels. Oh well. Here's hoping the new BenQs are better.
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post #179 of 180 Old 01-15-2020, 04:01 PM
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Thanks for that. Another one to strike off the list, judging by the "foggy" black levels. Oh well. Here's hoping the new BenQs are better.
And it's not all the ultra short throw compared to the DLP models. It needs about double the distance.
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post #180 of 180 Old 02-05-2020, 12:37 PM
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Very disappointing IMO..


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