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post #1 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Projector Choices

So I've finally got to the point where I'm happy with my bass output and my house can take no more so I've decided next upgrade will be projector. This all started with @Jk7.2 saying I should modify my existing 16:9 screen and go with 2:35:1. My screen right now is 165 in 16:9. So 81 by 144 inch the new size would be 81 by 190 or 206 diagonal. At the moment I have the jvc rs 400 and lens is about 17.5ft from the screen and the material is Seymour center stage xd . I'm wondering how many more lumens will I need to stay around the same brightness I have now and what projector do you guys reccomend I start saving for.

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post #2 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
So I've finally got to the point where I'm happy with my bass output and my house can take no more so I've decided next upgrade will be projector. This all started with @Jk7.2 saying I should modify my existing 16:9 screen and go with 2:35:1. My screen right now is 165 in 16:9. So 81 by 144 inch the new size would be 81 by 190 or 206 diagonal. At the moment I have the jvc rs 400 and lens is about 17.5ft from the screen and the material is Seymour center stage xd . I'm wondering how many more lumens will I need to stay around the same brightness I have now and what projector do you guys reccomend I start saving for.

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I definitely think it’s the right move. Your room is huge, at least compared to some like mine, and you have the space. It’s an easy upgrade and it will net some serious results. I hope there’s an affordable option out there to light up that size screen!
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post #3 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 06:35 AM
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Can vouch for “house can take no more”.


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post #4 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Can vouch for “house can take no more”.


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Lol yeah it's pretty intense in there now this all started because I was debating on putting the new eminence 21s in all the boxes until Jared talked some sense into me.

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post #5 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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So Mike just got back with me looks like right around 2200 will do it now to figure out which projector

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post #6 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 10:00 AM
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Are you going to put in an anamorphic lens too? If you don't, and you simply zoom in (which is what a lot of us do to get a 2.35 image) you actually are shooting bigger than your screen size, and brightness is affected. So brighter is definitely best! And an anamorphic lens might be worth it for your room and screen size. Why not put in 2 Sony 5000s?

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post #7 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 10:04 AM
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until Jared talked some sense into me.

Wait, what? Lol



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post #8 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by luv2fly3 View Post
Are you going to put in an anamorphic lens too? If you don't, and you simply zoom in (which is what a lot of us do to get a 2.35 image) you actually are shooting bigger than your screen size, and brightness is affected. So brighter is definitely best! And an anamorphic lens might be worth it for your room and screen size. Why not put in 2 Sony 5000s?
I didnt even think about that I wonder if a jvc nx7 and anamorphic lens would be enough. I wish I had arts budget the double stack 5000s are just a tad out of my budget lmao.

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post #9 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Wait, what? Lol



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Lol the eminence was 3db more in the v3s I couldn't even imagine that lol.

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post #10 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 12:50 PM
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I didnt even think about that I wonder if a jvc nx7 and anamorphic lens would be enough. I wish I had arts budget the double stack 5000s are just a tad out of my budget lmao.

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And here I was wondering if my NX7 + Paladin DCR lens were enough for a 125" 2.4:1 screen... but a 206" diagonal screen?

Have you looked into the Sony 885es for your setup? Laser, 2,000 lumens and they've come down in price.

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post #11 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Lol the eminence was 3db more in the v3s I couldn't even imagine that lol.

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3db more each? Oh crap, that would be beyond insane!


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post #12 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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3db more each? Oh crap, that would be beyond insane!


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Yeah 3db at 17hz 4 to 5around 60 to 80

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post #13 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mike Johnson 3 View Post
And here I was wondering if my NX7 + Paladin DCR lens were enough for a 125" 2.4:1 screen... but a 206" diagonal screen?



Have you looked into the Sony 885es for your setup? Laser, 2,000 lumens and they've come down in price.
I'm sure that looks amazing I have a rs400 on a 165 in 16:9 and that still looks great could be a tad brighter. I'll give the Sony a look after work today

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post #14 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 02:49 PM
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Have you considered an ana lens for your current projector?


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post #15 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 03:08 PM
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Don’t forget, a projector mount that doesn’t shake. Lol


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post #16 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 03:30 PM
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I run an RS2000(NX7) with DCR lens on a 150" wide scope 1.3 gain microperf (~1.15 gain in reality with the perfs) and with tone mapping it is just bright enough with HDR. I could maybe drop down to a woven screen and still be content with the light output in HDR, but it is borderline and now that I am used to having enough light to really enjoy HDR, the thought of losing some of it is not appealing. I wish I had 1000 more lumens. I considered changing to a woven screen because I am not terribly happy with my microperf screen, but just based on samples I think I would be unhappy with losing that much light...

In your case, you are starting with under 1.0 gain (XD is around .85 gain, right?) so you already have about 25% less light than I do just due to the screen gain difference, and you are talking about going almost double the screen area, so cut that light in half again... So without a lens, expect about 4-6fL of light, 6-8fL with a lens... Just a quick guesstimate, but I can't see any situation where a .85 gain screen of that size will get you more than 10fL without a stack of 5k lumen projectors... Even the best tone mapping is not going to make HDR look good with less than 10fL... Tolerable? If you are used to a very dim image, perhaps.

I seriously question if the extra size is worth it. Long before I went bigger I would move into a native 4k projector with tone mapping and see the difference before making any other changes. Although I am very content with my screen size, a part of me wishes I had started a little smaller so I could have more light. Brighter images make colors look better and it ends up being more immersive than a dimmer, larger image.

Just my 2 cents.
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post #17 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
I run an RS2000(NX7) with DCR lens on a 150" wide scope 1.3 gain microperf (~1.15 gain in reality with the perfs) and with tone mapping it is just bright enough with HDR. I could maybe drop down to a woven screen and still be content with the light output in HDR, but it is borderline and now that I am used to having enough light to really enjoy HDR, the thought of losing some of it is not appealing. I wish I had 1000 more lumens. I considered changing to a woven screen because I am not terribly happy with my microperf screen, but just based on samples I think I would be unhappy with losing that much light...

In your case, you are starting with under 1.0 gain (XD is around .85 gain, right?) so you already have about 25% less light than I do just due to the screen gain difference, and you are talking about going almost double the screen area, so cut that light in half again... So without a lens, expect about 4-6fL of light, 6-8fL with a lens... Just a quick guesstimate, but I can't see any situation where a .85 gain screen of that size will get you more than 10fL without a stack of 5k lumen projectors... Even the best tone mapping is not going to make HDR look good with less than 10fL... Tolerable? If you are used to a very dim image, perhaps.

I seriously question if the extra size is worth it. Long before I went bigger I would move into a native 4k projector with tone mapping and see the difference before making any other changes. Although I am very content with my screen size, a part of me wishes I had started a little smaller so I could have more light. Brighter images make colors look better and it ends up being more immersive than a dimmer, larger image.

Just my 2 cents.
I thought XD measures just under 1.0 gain (maybe around 9.5ish) and the UF comes in closer to 8.

I personally would only do a massive screen like you guys with a high lumen laser, then use high power without losing brightness so soon and having to deal with that nonsense. Or stockpile some bulbs

Are you running your NX7 on low or high?

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post #18 of 57 Old 09-12-2019, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought XD measures just under 1.0 gain (maybe around 9.5ish) and the UF comes in closer to 8.



I personally would only do a massive screen like you guys with a high lumen laser, then use high power without losing brightness so soon and having to deal with that nonsense. Or stockpile some bulbs



Are you running your NX7 on low or high?
Your right they claim 1.0 but measures at .94 . Yeah I really would love a laser just not sure it's in the budget at the moment. Maybe I'll stick with the 165in for now.

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post #19 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 08:55 AM
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I thought XD measures just under 1.0 gain (maybe around 9.5ish) and the UF comes in closer to 8.

I personally would only do a massive screen like you guys with a high lumen laser, then use high power without losing brightness so soon and having to deal with that nonsense. Or stockpile some bulbs

Are you running your NX7 on low or high?
Yeah, the XD is just under 1.0, I was just throwing out numbers off the top of my head. But even so, plugging it into a screen calculator an NX7 would max out around 7-8 foot lamberts on a 205" wide screen without a lens, and that is with a fresh bulb on high lamp. After a couple hundred hours it would be around 5fL. With a lens it could maybe reach 10fL, but again, even with the best tone mapping that is awfully dim.

Even an RS4500 wouldn't get over 15fL under the best case scenario on that size of screen, and although it would be tolerable with good tone mapping, that is a lot of money to spend to get an image that looks a bit dull and lifeless.

I run my projector on high lamp for HDR, low for SDR. With the lens I get around 20-23 fL, and with tone mapping it is quite an amazing picture. But I have to put up with the issues that screen gain and microperfs bring, and I am not too happy with that part. Panning shots on bright scenes highlight the hotspot and show off any inconsistencies in the vinyl. I just received my third replacement screen that will hopefully help with these issues, but based on what other forum members with 1.3 gain microperf screens have said, it is just an inherent issue with this type of screen. Unfortunately my options are limited, I could go to an XD screen and lose ~20% of my light and maybe still see the weave in the fabric, or I could go to a dreamscreen and lose 35% of my light and not see any weave or artifacts for sure, but then I am in that same 15fL boat with far less punch in my colors and highlights...

I agree with you, at the very least, if I were running a larger screen than I have now, I would opt for the laser DLP before a JVC, just because of the added lumens. With a Lumagen or an Envy and an anamorphic lens, the only drawback would be contrast, but contrast is always an issue on higher lumen projectors unless you spend 6 figures on a Christie... That is the compromise - big size means either spending 6 figures or putting up with 1000:1 contrast.
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post #20 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 09:07 AM
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I run my projector on high lamp for HDR, low for SDR. With the lens I get around 20-23 fL, and with tone mapping it is quite an amazing picture. But I have to put up with the issues that screen gain and microperfs bring, and I am not too happy with that part. Panning shots on bright scenes highlight the hotspot and show off any inconsistencies in the vinyl. I just received my third replacement screen that will hopefully help with these issues, but based on what other forum members with 1.3 gain microperf screens have said, it is just an inherent issue with this type of screen. Unfortunately my options are limited, I could go to an XD screen and lose ~20% of my light and maybe still see the weave in the fabric, or I could go to a dreamscreen and lose 35% of my light and not see any weave or artifacts for sure, but then I am in that same 15fL boat with far less punch in my colors and highlights...

I agree with you, at the very least, if I were running a larger screen than I have now, I would opt for the laser DLP before a JVC, just because of the added lumens. With a Lumagen or an Envy and an anamorphic lens, the only drawback would be contrast, but contrast is always an issue on higher lumen projectors unless you spend 6 figures on a Christie... That is the compromise - big size means either spending 6 figures or putting up with 1000:1 contrast.
I've a similar dilema! (first world problems, right ) The plan is for an N7 and adding a lens down the line. What I can't decide on is the screen. AT is desired and it's likely going to be a Seymour XD or XYZ 4K. A Stewart micro perf is not within budget and i've an issue with any kind of sheen or visible texture. The current plan is for 140" wide, which should be fine with a lens for HDR on high power (~equal to what you're getting with your screen?), and SDR on low. Quick question re. the N7 - do you hear it in high lamp mode and how far is it away?
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post #21 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 09:51 AM
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I've a similar dilema! (first world problems, right ) The plan is for an N7 and adding a lens down the line. What I can't decide on is the screen. AT is desired and it's likely going to be a Seymour XD or XYZ 4K. A Stewart micro perf is not within budget and i've an issue with any kind of sheen or visible texture. The current plan is for 140" wide, which should be fine with a lens for HDR on high power (~equal to what you're getting with your screen?), and SDR on low. Quick question re. the N7 - do you hear it in high lamp mode and how far is it away?
My theater is fully soundproofed with a decent amount of absorption and diffusion inside the room, so it is a super quiet room to start. The projector is mounted above my back row, which is around 7 feet back and about 6 feet up from my ears in the front row. Currently it is enclosed on the sides with 1' oc703 lining the sides, and it is on a shelf. In a dead quiet scene I can hear it if I listen for it and if I had to guess it is around 25db, just above the noise floor of the room. Once I get the front on the hush box (I have a 130cfm fan pulling out exhaust air, running it through a muffler, and exhausting it into the equipment room) I shouldn't hear it at all.

Yes, if I had a 140" wide screen I wouldn't have any hesitation switching to a woven screen. That extra 10" costs me around 20% more light. It's amazing how quickly increasing the width of a screen increases the area that you are spreading the light over.
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post #22 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 10:04 AM
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Yeah, the XD is just under 1.0, I was just throwing out numbers off the top of my head. But even so, plugging it into a screen calculator an NX7 would max out around 7-8 foot lamberts on a 205" wide screen without a lens, and that is with a fresh bulb on high lamp. After a couple hundred hours it would be around 5fL. With a lens it could maybe reach 10fL, but again, even with the best tone mapping that is awfully dim.

Even an RS4500 wouldn't get over 15fL under the best case scenario on that size of screen, and although it would be tolerable with good tone mapping, that is a lot of money to spend to get an image that looks a bit dull and lifeless.

I run my projector on high lamp for HDR, low for SDR. With the lens I get around 20-23 fL, and with tone mapping it is quite an amazing picture. But I have to put up with the issues that screen gain and microperfs bring, and I am not too happy with that part. Panning shots on bright scenes highlight the hotspot and show off any inconsistencies in the vinyl. I just received my third replacement screen that will hopefully help with these issues, but based on what other forum members with 1.3 gain microperf screens have said, it is just an inherent issue with this type of screen. Unfortunately my options are limited, I could go to an XD screen and lose ~20% of my light and maybe still see the weave in the fabric, or I could go to a dreamscreen and lose 35% of my light and not see any weave or artifacts for sure, but then I am in that same 15fL boat with far less punch in my colors and highlights...

I agree with you, at the very least, if I were running a larger screen than I have now, I would opt for the laser DLP before a JVC, just because of the added lumens. With a Lumagen or an Envy and an anamorphic lens, the only drawback would be contrast, but contrast is always an issue on higher lumen projectors unless you spend 6 figures on a Christie... That is the compromise - big size means either spending 6 figures or putting up with 1000:1 contrast.
I'd say we're not there yet with projectors being able to adequately throw to such a large screen (especially for HDR), except for those with VERY deep pockets! I'd be stunned to walk into someone's house and see a Christie! haha!

The XD screen is probably the best route for performance/cost without any significant compromises. Just a much smaller screen than 206" and definitely a 2.4:1

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post #23 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 10:15 AM
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I'd say we're not there yet with projectors being able to adequately throw to such a large screen (especially for HDR), except for those with VERY deep pockets! I'd be stunned to walk into someone's house and see a Christie! haha!

The XD screen is probably the best route for performance/cost without any significant compromises. Just a much smaller screen than 206" and definitely a 2.4:1
Even if I had the money, I doubt I will ever have a Christie projector in my home theater.... At some point "better" is measured in very small increments and usually costs very large sums of money. I reached that point with the JVC and lens combo.

My only concern with XD is I sit about 11-12 feet back and that is right at the edge of where a lot of people can see the weave. Since I am not supposed to be able to see the microperfs at my seating distance but still can, I wouldn't be surprised if I could see the weave on XD.
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post #24 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
Even if I had the money, I doubt I will ever have a Christie projector in my home theater.... At some point "better" is measured in very small increments and usually costs very large sums of money. I reached that point with the JVC and lens combo.

My only concern with XD is I sit about 11-12 feet back and that is right at the edge of where a lot of people can see the weave. Since I am not supposed to be able to see the microperfs at my seating distance but still can, I wouldn't be surprised if I could see the weave on XD.
I agree with you on the JVC Paladin DCR combo, though I have a much smaller screen so I have almost too much light!

Definitely get a sample of the XD, it's hit or miss on who can see the texture.
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JVC NX7, Paladin DCR, 125" 2.40:1 Seymour Center Stage XD
(previous: JVC 540/790, Epson 5040UBe,+more)
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post #25 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
Even if I had the money, I doubt I will ever have a Christie projector in my home theater.... At some point "better" is measured in very small increments and usually costs very large sums of money. I reached that point with the JVC and lens combo.



My only concern with XD is I sit about 11-12 feet back and that is right at the edge of where a lot of people can see the weave. Since I am not supposed to be able to see the microperfs at my seating distance but still can, I wouldn't be surprised if I could see the weave on XD.
Yeah I wouldn't either I've seen arts double stacked 5000s. While they look amazing I couldn't imagine spending 120k on projectors and I've seen a few threads where hes thinking of upgrading to a Christie. I'll probably just stick with my screen at the moment still very larger at 165 in 16:9. I cant see the weave on the xd from 12 ft but everyone is different. Still debating on jumping up to a nx7 from my rs400 I know it would be quite the upgrade or just save up for a few years till they make something that will light up the bigger screen. Heres a picture of what the size difference would be tape measure on the floor would have been the new length and same height.

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Last edited by hd0823; 09-13-2019 at 12:02 PM.
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post #26 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hd0823 View Post
Yeah I wouldn't either I've seen arts double stacked 5000s. While they look amazing I couldn't imagine spending 120k on projectors and I've seen a few threads where hes thinking of upgrading to a Christie. I'll probably just stick with my screen at the moment still very larger at 165 in 16:9. I cant see the weave on the xd from 12 ft but everyone is different. Still debating on jumping up to a nx7 from my rs400 I know it would be quite the upgrade or just save up for a few years till they make something that will light up the bigger screen. Heres a picture of what the size difference would be tape measure on the floor would have been the new length and same height.

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That's a nice room.

Maybe I missed it, but I'm not sure what your screen gain will be. I'm not confident that the NX7 will light a 204 inch diagonal well enough, especially given that the lamp will age and HDR. If you like JVCs, why not consider demo'ing the RS4500 laser projector? It has 3,000 un-cal'd lumens on tap and you could probably get a deal now that they've been out for a while.
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post #27 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Johnson 3 View Post
I agree with you on the JVC Paladin DCR combo, though I have a much smaller screen so I have almost too much light!

Definitely get a sample of the XD, it's hit or miss on who can see the texture.
Definitely get a sample. I think you'll be impressed. The weave is very tight.
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post #28 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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That's a nice room.



Maybe I missed it, but I'm not sure what your screen gain will be. I'm not confident that the NX7 will light a 204 inch diagonal well enough, especially given that the lamp will age and HDR. If you like JVCs, why not consider demo'ing the RS4500 laser projector? It has 3,000 un-cal'd lumens on tap and you could probably get a deal now that they've been out for a while.
I was going to do Seymour center stage XD again. Yeah I'm starting to realize the lower lumen jvc projector probally arent up to the task even with a anamorphic lens. I would have to save for quite a bit to even think about the rs4500 and that would be hoping to see one being sold used which you dont to often. I looked at the benq lk990 which has quite a bit of lumens but a 1:1000 contrast ratio . Also from what I've read bright scenes look amazing but anything dark looks pretty washed out but I guess that's to be expected with a high lumen dlp.

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post #29 of 57 Old 09-13-2019, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Definitely get a sample. I think you'll be impressed. The weave is very tight.
You consider the weave tight on an XD? I consider it tight on Neo, DreamScreen V6 and Not bad on UF. XD looks very coarse compared to those three, especially the first two. Get samples of all four.
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post #30 of 57 Old 09-14-2019, 02:17 AM
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I was going to do Seymour center stage XD again. Yeah I'm starting to realize the lower lumen jvc projector probally arent up to the task even with a anamorphic lens. I would have to save for quite a bit to even think about the rs4500 and that would be hoping to see one being sold used which you dont to often. I looked at the benq lk990 which has quite a bit of lumens but a 1:1000 contrast ratio . Also from what I've read bright scenes look amazing but anything dark looks pretty washed out but I guess that's to be expected with a high lumen dlp.

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I have the 990.. dark scenes look dark to me..
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