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post #1 of 18 Old 09-13-2019, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Time to upgrade from VPL-HW55ES?

Hi projector experts, since you all keep up with these much more than myself, would love your opinion please. Currently been running a Sony VPL-HW55ES for about 4 years and for the most part very happy. The major things I would like in an upgrade are 4k, HDR and better brightness. Light control in the room is ok (not great), but would be nice to allow a window to be slightly open during the day even. Have a 150in screen with approximately 17.5ft throw. Love the idea of laser projectors for the brightness and not worrying about bulb replacements. My max budget is around $8k but ideally less. Must really be worth it for that price. Primary purpose is movies, but also want to game on it and not suffer in FPS with friends (even though I'm already terrible )

Projectors that have peeked interest so far:
  • Optoma UHZ65 - Great brightness, great price, but bad for gaming?
  • BenQ LK990 - Amazing brightness, also bad for gaming?
  • Epson Pro Cinema 6050UB

Are all the above faux-4k, pretty sure the Epson is? I like Sony and JVC but do not see high lumen models until going very expensive. What other projectors should I consider or would you overall recommend for my use cases? Or should I just hold off for another year or two? Didn't see much mentioned at CEDIA for what I am looking. UST seems to be the focus now, which I would be ok with but they seem to not go bigger than 120in and also would have to run ~60ft of HDMI to get to the equipment (doable, but a little project and would need something to put it on).

Thanks so much for any thoughts and enlightenment!
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post #2 of 18 Old 09-13-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooders View Post
Hi projector experts, since you all keep up with these much more than myself, would love your opinion please. Currently been running a Sony VPL-HW55ES for about 4 years and for the most part very happy. The major things I would like in an upgrade are 4k, HDR and better brightness. Light control in the room is ok (not great), but would be nice to allow a window to be slightly open during the day even. Have a 150in screen with approximately 17.5ft throw. Love the idea of laser projectors for the brightness and not worrying about bulb replacements. My max budget is around $8k but ideally less. Must really be worth it for that price. Primary purpose is movies, but also want to game on it and not suffer in FPS with friends (even though I'm already terrible )



Projectors that have peeked interest so far:
  • Optoma UHZ65 - Great brightness, great price, but bad for gaming?
  • BenQ LK990 - Amazing brightness, also bad for gaming?
  • Epson Pro Cinema 6050UB



Are all the above faux-4k, pretty sure the Epson is? I like Sony and JVC but do not see high lumen models until going very expensive. What other projectors should I consider or would you overall recommend for my use cases? Or should I just hold off for another year or two? Didn't see much mentioned at CEDIA for what I am looking. UST seems to be the focus now, which I would be ok with but they seem to not go bigger than 120in and also would have to run ~60ft of HDMI to get to the equipment (doable, but a little project and would need something to put it on).



Thanks so much for any thoughts and enlightenment!


Just some food for thought.

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post #3 of 18 Old 09-13-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooders View Post
Hi projector experts, since you all keep up with these much more than myself, would love your opinion please. Currently been running a Sony VPL-HW55ES for about 4 years and for the most part very happy. The major things I would like in an upgrade are 4k, HDR and better brightness. Light control in the room is ok (not great), but would be nice to allow a window to be slightly open during the day even. Have a 150in screen with approximately 17.5ft throw. Love the idea of laser projectors for the brightness and not worrying about bulb replacements. My max budget is around $8k but ideally less. Must really be worth it for that price. Primary purpose is movies, but also want to game on it and not suffer in FPS with friends (even though I'm already terrible )



Projectors that have peeked interest so far:
  • Optoma UHZ65 - Great brightness, great price, but bad for gaming?
  • BenQ LK990 - Amazing brightness, also bad for gaming?
  • Epson Pro Cinema 6050UB



Are all the above faux-4k, pretty sure the Epson is? I like Sony and JVC but do not see high lumen models until going very expensive. What other projectors should I consider or would you overall recommend for my use cases? Or should I just hold off for another year or two? Didn't see much mentioned at CEDIA for what I am looking. UST seems to be the focus now, which I would be ok with but they seem to not go bigger than 120in and also would have to run ~60ft of HDMI to get to the equipment (doable, but a little project and would need something to put it on).



Thanks so much for any thoughts and enlightenment!
I own a 6050 and think for the price it really cannot be beaten. In two years we will probably get a 3000 lumens true 4K laser projector from Epson Sony or JVC. MSRP will be $10K. Street pricing 10% to 15% off of that. Might be worth waiting. The JVC true 4K projector chassis has room inside for a laser light engine.

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post #4 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that skylarlove1999. After watching that video, still so torn... There is one con on each that holds me back.
  • Epson 6050ub - Pros: Brightness, color and price. Cons: Not full 4k, screen door effect. How much better is the image quality than my current VPL-HW55ES?
  • Optima Theo-Z65 - Pros: True 4k, brightness, lamp life and stability. Cons: Gaming lag
  • JVC DLA-NX7 - Pros: Full 4k, color. Cons: Brightness
  • JVC DLA-NX9 - Pros: Full 4k, color, brightness. Cons: Price (not sure it is worth it, could buy several cheaper ones each year for this price)

If the 6050 was true 4k, would order in a heart beat. If the Z65 had better response time, would order in a heart beat. If the NX-7 had more brightness, would order in a heart beat. Where is that perfect projector in this range :P.
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post #5 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooders View Post
Thanks for that skylarlove1999. After watching that video, still so torn... There is one con on each that holds me back.


  • Epson 6050ub - Pros: Brightness, color and price. Cons: Not full 4k, screen door effect. How much better is the image quality than my current VPL-HW55ES?
  • Optima Theo-Z65 - Pros: True 4k, brightness, lamp life and stability. Cons: Gaming lag
  • JVC DLA-NX7 - Pros: Full 4k, color. Cons: Brightness
  • JVC DLA-NX9 - Pros: Full 4k, color, brightness. Cons: Price (not sure it is worth it, could buy several cheaper ones each year for this price)



If the 6050 was true 4k, would order in a heart beat. If the Z65 had better response time, would order in a heart beat. If the NX-7 had more brightness, would order in a heart beat. Where is that perfect projector in this range :P.
No projector is perfect. You have to decide what aspects of image quality mean the most to you/fit your situation best. It definitely is a tough choice. I don't believe too many can tell the difference between true 4k and e-shift at a viewing distance 10 ft and beyond. True 4K means the pixels on-screen are so dense it is hard to achieve proper brightness for HDR. I doubt you would miss the pixels if you went with Faux 4k. You will miss the brightness if you don't have a dark enough room to get native 4K that works well for HDR with the lower lumens of LCD based true 4k projectors. I think you will notice a significant difference in picture quality from the Epson 6060/5050 and your Sony. You will not see any SDE unless you plan on sitting closer than 4-5 feet from the screen. Best Buy Magnolia carries the 6050. Maybe find a local store for a demo. They carry JVC NX7/RS2000 as well.

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post #6 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooders View Post
Thanks for that skylarlove1999. After watching that video, still so torn... There is one con on each that holds me back.
  • Epson 6050ub - Pros: Brightness, color and price. Cons: Not full 4k, screen door effect. How much better is the image quality than my current VPL-HW55ES?
  • Optima Theo-Z65 - Pros: True 4k, brightness, lamp life and stability. Cons: Gaming lag
  • JVC DLA-NX7 - Pros: Full 4k, color. Cons: Brightness
  • JVC DLA-NX9 - Pros: Full 4k, color, brightness. Cons: Price (not sure it is worth it, could buy several cheaper ones each year for this price)

If the 6050 was true 4k, would order in a heart beat. If the Z65 had better response time, would order in a heart beat. If the NX-7 had more brightness, would order in a heart beat. Where is that perfect projector in this range :P.
Have you went and demoed any of them to see if the fears that are holding you back from buying are justified?

Like @skylarlove1999 I have the 6050 (TW9400), most of us don’t seem to feel short changed that it doesn’t have true 4K and as for the NX7 not being bright enough I’m yet to hear this comment from those that own them. Frankly if you can afford the JVC without spending that much bothering you then it would be the one I personally would buy in that heart beat.

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post #7 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all that info @skylarlove1999 and @Luminated67 ... I think you have me convinced to give the Epson a try. The Best Buy in my town is unfortunately not a Magnolia so don't have anywhere close to demo . Might be worth a road trip though . Would be nice to see both the 6050 and NX7 in person.

My thought on brightness with the NX7 is just that I do not have a well blacked out room. The room is ok with blackout curtains and tan walls, but during the day, my wife especially, likes keeping a little natural light in the room. The NX7 is 200 lumens more than our current Sony so technically might be a little better there.

Thanks again!
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Ok in that case I’d invest in a good quality ALR screen to make full use of the brightness of each projector during daytime but definitely do a road trip to try and see both projectors as it’s a big investment so you need to get it right.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
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post #9 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooders View Post
Thanks for all that info @skylarlove1999 and @Luminated67 ... I think you have me convinced to give the Epson a try. The Best Buy in my town is unfortunately not a Magnolia so don't have anywhere close to demo . Might be worth a road trip though . Would be nice to see both the 6050 and NX7 in person.



My thought on brightness with the NX7 is just that I do not have a well blacked out room. The room is ok with blackout curtains and tan walls, but during the day, my wife especially, likes keeping a little natural light in the room. The NX7 is 200 lumens more than our current Sony so technically might be a little better there.



Thanks again!
An ambient light rejecting screen would probably be best regardless of which projector you go with in your room. Things to keep in mind are throw distance and viewing angle from screen when selecting an ALR screen. The screen you will have for many more years, well after you are onto your 3rd or 4th projector . Seymour AV makes some great mid budget and high end screens and the will sell just the screen material if you can DIY a frame.

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post #10 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok in that case I’d invest in a good quality ALR screen to make full use of the brightness of each projector during daytime but definitely do a road trip to try and see both projectors as it’s a big investment so you need to get it right.
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999
An ambient light rejecting screen would probably be best regardless of which projector you go with in your room. Things to keep in mind are throw distance and viewing angle from screen when selecting an ALR screen.
A better screen could be nice, I just have this white 150" Silver Ticket now: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I'll look into ALR options. Maybe I could hook up one of those Seymour DIYs to my current frame.

My current mount's throw distance is around 17.5ft.
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post #11 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 02:30 PM
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A better screen could be nice, I just have this white 150" Silver Ticket now: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll look into ALR options. Maybe I could hook up one of those Seymour DIYs to my current frame.



My current mount's throw distance is around 17.5ft.
I would suggest giving Seymour AV a call they are really helpful in explaining how you could attach there screen material to your current screen.


https://www.projectorcentral.com/amb...-Matinee-Black

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post #12 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Cooders View Post
A better screen could be nice, I just have this white 150" Silver Ticket now: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll look into ALR options. Maybe I could hook up one of those Seymour DIYs to my current frame.



My current mount's throw distance is around 17.5ft.
Seymour AV recently introduced Matinee Wide screen material which is good for reducing moderate ambient light and has a wider viewing angle. Is is not a high gain screen only .9 so you lose a little brightness.

At your screen size the problem you run into will be the recommended throw distance with ALR screens which is usually between 1.5 and 1.9 times your screen width.

Your screen width is probably around 130 inches which means that for ALR screens the projector would need to be mounted at 17 ft on the lower 1.5 and 20.5 ft on the higher 1.9 multiplier. With ALR screens it is very important to pay attention to the throw distance multiplier. The Seymour AV Matinee Wide screen material has a throw distance multiplier of only 1.4 so you would be fine leaving your projector mounted at 17 ft.

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post #13 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooders View Post
Thanks for that skylarlove1999. After watching that video, still so torn... There is one con on each that holds me back.
  • Epson 6050ub - Pros: Brightness, color and price. Cons: Not full 4k, screen door effect. How much better is the image quality than my current VPL-HW55ES?
  • Optima Theo-Z65 - Pros: True 4k, brightness, lamp life and stability. Cons: Gaming lag
  • JVC DLA-NX7 - Pros: Full 4k, color. Cons: Brightness
  • JVC DLA-NX9 - Pros: Full 4k, color, brightness. Cons: Price (not sure it is worth it, could buy several cheaper ones each year for this price)

If the 6050 was true 4k, would order in a heart beat. If the Z65 had better response time, would order in a heart beat. If the NX-7 had more brightness, would order in a heart beat. Where is that perfect projector in this range :P.
It is HDR where people are concerned with enough brightness. Used to be we talked about needing a minimum of 30FL for HDR. Now with dynamic tone mapping, that number is like 20FL. The JVC projectors will be getting dynamic tone mapping. So on a 120" screen that is like getting a 430 bump in lumens over a projector without dynamic tone mapping.
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post #14 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 06:56 PM
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It is HDR where people are concerned with enough brightness. Used to be we talked about needing a minimum of 30FL for HDR. Now with dynamic tone mapping, that number is like 20FL. The JVC projectors will be getting dynamic tone mapping. So on a 120" screen that is like getting a 430 bump in lumens over a projector without dynamic tone mapping.
Not disagreeing with your perceived lumens bump statement. Just wondering how you extrapolated that number? Is that from experience with the madVR and assuming the JVC DTM will match that perceived lumens bump? I am trying to understand. If you added the perceived bump in lumens of a DCR lens to DTM are we getting close to a 1000 lumens bump? From a viewing experience standpoint using an NX7 with DCR Lens and DTM would we be close to the percieved lumens output from an RS 4500 without DCR and no DTM?

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post #15 of 18 Old 09-21-2019, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Not disagreeing with your perceived lumens bump statement. Just wondering how you extrapolated that number? Is that from experience with the madVR and assuming the JVC DTM will match that perceived lumens bump? I am trying to understand. If you added the perceived bump in lumens of a DCR lens to DTM are we getting close to a 1000 lumens bump? From a viewing experience standpoint using an NX7 with DCR Lens and DTM would we be close to the percieved lumens output from an RS 4500 without DCR and no DTM?

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Yeah, that does sound ambitious. Maybe as compared to really poor uncalibrated factory tone mapping. However, decent or well calibrated static tone mapping should be pushing peak whites (lumens) where possible. Mid range gamma which DTM helps track better will offer some additional lumens, but not that much.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Not disagreeing with your perceived lumens bump statement. Just wondering how you extrapolated that number? Is that from experience with the madVR and assuming the JVC DTM will match that perceived lumens bump? I am trying to understand. If you added the perceived bump in lumens of a DCR lens to DTM are we getting close to a 1000 lumens bump? From a viewing experience standpoint using an NX7 with DCR Lens and DTM would we be close to the percieved lumens output from an RS 4500 without DCR and no DTM?

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From Lumagen DTM. Also talking to a reviewer that is comparing the JVC DTM to Lumagen DTM.
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post #17 of 18 Old 09-23-2019, 10:31 AM
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From Lumagen DTM. Also talking to a reviewer that is comparing the JVC DTM to Lumagen DTM.
Thank you for putting some context to it Mike. I appreciate that. That sounds really promising and pretty amazing.

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post #18 of 18 Old 09-23-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Yeah, that does sound ambitious. Maybe as compared to really poor uncalibrated factory tone mapping. However, decent or well calibrated static tone mapping should be pushing peak whites (lumens) where possible. Mid range gamma which DTM helps track better will offer some additional lumens, but not that much.
Kris Deering posted FL numbers where DTM still looked good. His numbers were in the teens. I bumped it to 20FL, so that would give a little bit of lamp life. So no, I don't think the 20FL number is ambitious.
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