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tidwelr1 09-19-2019 02:04 PM

Another help me choose thread - mixed use room - gaming and great picture for movies
 
I’m totally a noob to projectors but not Audio/Video. I need help as there are so many projectors out there to choose from. I have done some research and I initially wanted a JVC but I keep reading they’re not good for flex rooms in terms of use. You need a bat cave. Really bummed about that. I’m looking for a projector for a small room. Projector will be approx 11-12 ft form the screen wall. I’m thinking I would like a 100 or 110” inch screen. I will have a credenza below the screen that my paradigm cc-690 will be sitting on so one of the new UST projectors isn’t possible for my setup.

Priorities
Great picture quality with decent blacks

Below 30ms input lag for gaming

Needs to run quietly - Low noise

Flexible for use during the daytime with some light control to watch football without having to be in a cave

I would prefer to spend less than $5k unless a great case can be made for spending a little more

I’m not against buying a prior year model, however, I do want 4K ability even if it’s E-shift 4K.

Should I just get a great 1080 projector until 4K projectors come down in price a good bit???




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SED <--- Rules 09-19-2019 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tidwelr1 (Post 58581416)
I’m totally a noob to projectors but not Audio/Video. I need help as there are sooo many projectors out there to choose from. I have done some research and I initially wanted a JVC but I keep reading they’re not good for flex rooms in terms of use. You need a bat cave. Really bummed about that. I’m looking for a projector for a small room. Projector will be approx 11-12 ft form the screen wall. I’m thinking I would like a 100 or 110” inch screen. I will have a credenza below the screen that my paradigm cc-690 will be sitting on so one of the new UST projectors isn’t possible for my setup.

Priorities
Great picture quality with decent blacks

Below 30ms input lag for gaming

Needs to run quietly - Low noise

Flexible for use during the daytime with some light control to watch football without having to be in a cave

I would prefer to spend less than $5k unless a great case can be made for spending a little more

I’m not against buying a prior year model, however, I do want 4K ability even if it’s E-shift 4K.

Should I just get a great 1080 projector until 4K projectors come down in price a good bit???




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I think the Epson 6050UB is a good choice for you. It's not too expensive, definitely cheaper than the JVCs. It is more flexible since it can go very bright in it's brightest mode, brighter than the JVCs, enough to watch football with some daytime light. The black levels are good...not better than JVC, but still good. Gaming is good on the Epson too (similar to JVC). It does have 4K pixel shifting similar to E-shift. The picture is a little less "smooth and film-like"....the JVCs are more film-like. Film watching is of course fine with the Epson.

A review of the Epson 6050UB

bdht 09-19-2019 02:29 PM

Epson 5050/6050 and some ALR material, XY Screens Black Crystal, Seymour AV Matinee Black, Screen Innovations Slate. The Da Lite Parallax/DNP Supernova and EPV Darkstar 9, would be near the top of the ALR list but are more expensive.

the epson has some motion blur due to the slower pixel response, but I think alot of the 4k DLP projectors have much higher input lag.

tidwelr1 09-19-2019 07:14 PM

Another help me choose thread - mixed use room - gaming and great picture for movies
 
[QUOTE=SED
It’s interesting you mention the Epson bc I found a 6040 on Craigslist about an hour away. The guy is asking $1800. I saw where they were $4k new. What’s a fair price for a used one? Doesn’t that come with a ceiling mount and an extra bulb?

The 6050 looks like it might be the one I get. Wonder how much cheaper it will be on Black Friday? Just finished reading about it. Now, I just have to find a screen.

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tidwelr1 09-19-2019 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdht (Post 58581588)
Epson 5050/6050 and some ALR material, XY Screens Black Crystal, Seymour AV Matinee Black, Screen Innovations Slate. The Da Lite Parallax/DNP Supernova and EPV Darkstar 9, would be near the top of the ALR list but are more expensive.



the epson has some motion blur due to the slower pixel response, but I think alot of the 4k DLP projectors have much higher input lag.



I’ve been looking at silver ticket screens. They seem to have great reviews and is listed as a best bet by wire cutter. Any idea how good their ALR screen is? They have grey and a silver screen.


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bdht 09-19-2019 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tidwelr1 (Post 58582812)
I’ve been looking at silver ticket screens. They seem to have great reviews and is listed as a best bet by wire cutter. Any idea how good their ALR screen is? They have grey and a silver screen.

They're not so much ALR screens, the grey screen helps with contrast a little bit, the silver screen has higher gain, these were older solutions that applied to various projectors either lower contrast or less bright. Where as materials like I listed are more for rooms with ambient light or reflective rooms(white walls ceilings). Youll notice little difference with silver tickets screens under those conditions, whereas with newer ALR materials youll have a significantly better image in less than perfect rooms.

tidwelr1 09-20-2019 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdht (Post 58582878)
They're not so much ALR screens, the grey screen helps with contrast a little bit, the silver screen has higher gain, these were older solutions that applied to various projectors either lower contrast or less bright. Where as materials like I listed are more for rooms with ambient light or reflective rooms(white walls ceilings). Youll notice little difference with silver tickets screens under those conditions, whereas with newer ALR materials youll have a significantly better image in less than perfect rooms.



Gotcha. I will check out the ones you mentioned.


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tidwelr1 09-20-2019 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdht (Post 58582878)
They're not so much ALR screens, the grey screen helps with contrast a little bit, the silver screen has higher gain, these were older solutions that applied to various projectors either lower contrast or less bright. Where as materials like I listed are more for rooms with ambient light or reflective rooms(white walls ceilings). Youll notice little difference with silver tickets screens under those conditions, whereas with newer ALR materials youll have a significantly better image in less than perfect rooms.



The screens you listed are significantly more than I was hoping to spend on a screen. I would think the projector is more important than the screen. Any idea what the breakdown is in terms of importance? Also, at what point does the law of diminishing returns kick in on screens?


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SED <--- Rules 09-20-2019 10:48 AM

Yeah, you definitley need an ALR (ambient light rejecting) screen if you want to watch with some daytime light. Otherwise, the picture will look washed out.

bdht 09-20-2019 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tidwelr1 (Post 58585128)
The screens you listed are significantly more than I was hoping to spend on a screen. I would think the projector is more important than the screen. Any idea what the breakdown is in terms of importance? Also, at what point does the law of diminishing returns kick in on screens?

A projection system is 2 components. A projector and a screen, so I would personally rate the screen as equal in importance. While a more expensive projector will have less inadequacies, its the same for the screen. Theres no diminishing returns, the Stewart Studiotek 100 is a perfect screen ;] You have budget materials from elite and silver ticket, mid range materials like from SeymourAV, and then the best. Personal budget and preference are well... entirely that, personal, if you're not comfortable spending more on a screen then don't.

With the screen its all about the visibility of the screen, any time theres motion(which is most of the time with moving pictures) the screen will be visible. The better the material the less visible the screen is.

You can always purchase something affordable and upgrade to a good screen later down the road. Thats the boat Im in, I have 2 motorized screens an Elunevision Reference 100EL(silver tickets white) and an XY Screen Black Crystal 0.8 gain. When I upgrade the screens it will be to Stewart Snomatte for the 100el and to a Da Lite Parallax or an EPV Darkstar9 for the Black Crystal.

But strongly consider ALR, projection is fickle when it comes to light in the room, even the light bouncing of the screen into the room and back to the screen, hence why rooms with projection often have matte black ceilings, fabric walls, carpet, and everything is dark.

Did you get a quote from XY Screen? Its definitely the most affordable. some information in this thread. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...on-review.html

dkersten 09-20-2019 12:58 PM

The 6050 is just a black version of the 5050 with some anamorphic features built in for use with an anamorphic lens. It doesn't sound like that is a criteria. so stick with a 5050. The price on the 6040 is about right for a used one, assuming it is relatively low hours. I recommend a 5050 rather than a used 5040 or 6040 because of the 18gbps HDMI. Plus the 5040/6040 suffered from power supply failures, and getting a new unit with warranty would be a wise choice, especially if the power supply issues still exist in the new units.

Get in touch with a dealer before making any purchases, usually they can offer better pricing than a big box retailer.

As for the screen, you marry the screen, you date the projector (not my quote, but true). Chances are you will swap out projectors every few years, maybe every 5, because they wear out and technology changes. Screens don't change much, with the exception of some ALR tech that is relatively new, and everything in your media room is going to be based on screen size and type, so once you get your screen, it is rare that you would swap it out. It won't wear out, and if you make the right choice from the start you will end up using it for a long time.

I have already had 2 different projectors in my theater, and just the one screen. It would take a lot of work to switch to a different screen, but I can simply unplug and plug in a new projector..

Whichever way you go, try to find a way to demo the setup. If you commit, especially to an expensive setup, without first viewing the combination in a similar room, you could wind up seriously disappointed. And if you are going with a good quality screen, you want to make sure it will work out for you. Just like projectors, there might be some little quirk that is intolerable to you and you won't know until you see it in person.

skylarlove1999 09-21-2019 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tidwelr1 (Post 58585128)
The screens you listed are significantly more than I was hoping to spend on a screen. I would think the projector is more important than the screen. Any idea what the breakdown is in terms of importance? Also, at what point does the law of diminishing returns kick in on screens?


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A quality screen designed for your room conditions can really atone for many flaws in a projector. I am not saying the projector isn't more important but the screen really is important as well. I would say 65% projector and 35% screen and more important for screen the better the projector. A good screen can last 10-20 years . You will buy at least 4 projectors in 20 years probably more. I would not go the inexpensive route on a screen . That is where most novices make a mistake. Seymour AV will sell just the material and their are many DIY screen making threads and videos online.

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bdht 09-21-2019 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 (Post 58589682)
I would not go the inexpensive route on a screen . That is where most novices make a mistake.

I think there are at least good and affordable options where one can go the inexpensive route initially to acclimate themself with the ins and outs of projection and later be more confident in the purchase of a more expensive screen. If we're talking about a $200 screen vs a $2000 screen anyway. The older screen can be used in another system as well as to not go to waste.

skylarlove1999 09-21-2019 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdht (Post 58590940)
I think there are at least good and affordable options where one can go the inexpensive route initially to acclimate themself with the ins and outs of projection and later be more confident in the purchase of a more expensive screen. If we're talking about a $200 screen vs a $2000 screen anyway. The older screen can be used in another system as well as to not go to waste.

You recommended some $1600 to $2000 screens in your previous advice to the original poster. Did you change your mind after reading the thread? Just curious why the change in direction.

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skylarlove1999 09-21-2019 08:08 PM

[quote=tidwelr1;58582774][QUOTE=SED
It’s interesting you mention the Epson bc I found a 6040 on Craigslist about an hour away. The guy is asking $1800. I saw where they were $4k new. What’s a fair price for a used one? Doesn’t that come with a ceiling mount and an extra bulb?

The 6050 looks like it might be the one I get. Wonder how much cheaper it will be on Black Friday? Just finished reading about it. Now, I just have to find a screen.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/quote]6040 would have come initially with mount and lamp . Used probably not. Maybe the spare lamp. I would buy the 5050 over the 6040 regardless of price. You also get a 2 year warranty with a new 5050. Unfortunately Epson has had some power supply issues. Not sure I would buy one without a warranty. I had two different 5040 projectors stop working due to power supply issues. 6050 has been working great since May with zero issues.

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tidwelr1 09-21-2019 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 (Post 58589682)
A quality screen designed for your room conditions can really atone for many flaws in a projector. I am not saying the projector isn't more important but the screen really is important as well. I would say 65% projector and 35% screen and more important for screen the better the projector. A good screen can last 10-20 years . You will buy at least 4 projectors in 20 years probably more. I would not go the inexpensive route on a screen . That is where most novices make a mistake. Seymour AV will sell just the material and their are many DIY screen making threads and videos online.

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So I’ve gotten the point now in that I should bite the bullet and get a good screen and then plan on keeping it for a long time. I want to like the Epson 5050 bc it does seem like a good fit but I’m really wanting a black projector for my room. No doubt that Epson does that on purpose to spend more for the 6050. The 6050 comes with an extra bulb which isn’t expensive and also a mount which aren’t expensive. Really no other difference. Maybe I should build a hush box for it so you can’t really see it.


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skylarlove1999 09-21-2019 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tidwelr1 (Post 58590976)
So I’ve gotten the point now in that I should bite the bullet and get a good screen and then plan on keeping it for a long time. I want to like the Epson 5050 bc it does seem like a good fit but I’m really wanting a black projector for my room. No doubt that Epson does that on purpose to spend more for the 6050. The 6050 comes with an extra bulb which isn’t expensive and also a mount which aren’t expensive. Really no other difference. Maybe I should build a hush box for it so you can’t really see it.


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Well the good folks at Epson pull the higher performing lens for the 6050 and the lesser quality ones go to the 5050. How much of a difference? Measurable contrast ratio is rated higher than the 5050 by about 20%. The mount is a $300 value and the best mount on the market IMHO. You get an extra year of warranty with the 6050. Don't discount that year. Epson has had some power supply issues in the past. Extra lamp is about a $200 value. 5050 might still be the better deal but you can get the 6050 for less than the $3999 MSRP if you know the right dealer.

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bdht 09-21-2019 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 (Post 58590950)
You recommended some $1600 to $2000 screens in your previous advice to the original poster. Did you change your mind after reading the thread? Just curious why the change in direction.

No change... I apologize if there was a misunderstanding, I mentioned the xy screen black crystal as the affordable alr option at under $500, would consider the matinee black and si slate in the more expensive category, and then also mentioned the perfect stuff like the parallax and darkstar9. 3 tiers =]

I didnt mean to be contradictory just adding that, especially with a standard white screen or the xy material thats its feasible to spend 200 now and more down the road. it can be difficult to visualize and understand how projection systems interact with a room without first hand experience.

tidwelr1 09-21-2019 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 (Post 58591002)
Well the good folks at Epson pull the higher performing lens for the 6050 and the lesser quality ones go to the 5050. How much of a difference? Measurable contrast ratio is rated higher than the 5050 by about 20%. The mount is a $300 value and the best mount on the market IMHO. You get an extra year of warranty with the 6050. Don't discount that year. Epson has had some power supply issues in the past. Extra lamp is about a $200 value. 5050 might still be the better deal but you can get the 6050 for less than the $3999 MSRP if you know the right dealer.

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That makes me feel better about getting the 6050. Wonder what kind of price I might be able to get on Black Friday?


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Mike Garrett 09-22-2019 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkersten (Post 58585780)
The 6050 is just a black version of the 5050 with some anamorphic features built in for use with an anamorphic lens. It doesn't sound like that is a criteria. so stick with a 5050. The price on the 6040 is about right for a used one, assuming it is relatively low hours. I recommend a 5050 rather than a used 5040 or 6040 because of the 18gbps HDMI. Plus the 5040/6040 suffered from power supply failures, and getting a new unit with warranty would be a wise choice, especially if the power supply issues still exist in the new units.

Get in touch with a dealer before making any purchases, usually they can offer better pricing than a big box retailer.

As for the screen, you marry the screen, you date the projector (not my quote, but true). Chances are you will swap out projectors every few years, maybe every 5, because they wear out and technology changes. Screens don't change much, with the exception of some ALR tech that is relatively new, and everything in your media room is going to be based on screen size and type, so once you get your screen, it is rare that you would swap it out. It won't wear out, and if you make the right choice from the start you will end up using it for a long time.

I have already had 2 different projectors in my theater, and just the one screen. It would take a lot of work to switch to a different screen, but I can simply unplug and plug in a new projector..

Whichever way you go, try to find a way to demo the setup. If you commit, especially to an expensive setup, without first viewing the combination in a similar room, you could wind up seriously disappointed. And if you are going with a good quality screen, you want to make sure it will work out for you. Just like projectors, there might be some little quirk that is intolerable to you and you won't know until you see it in person.

Actually, the 6050 is a pretty good deal compared to the 5050, these days. 6050 has black case, three year warranty, spare lamp and a good Chief mount. It has anamorphic functions, more calibration controls and hand selected lens.

Mike Garrett 09-22-2019 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tidwelr1 (Post 58590976)
So I’ve gotten the point now in that I should bite the bullet and get a good screen and then plan on keeping it for a long time. I want to like the Epson 5050 bc it does seem like a good fit but I’m really wanting a black projector for my room. No doubt that Epson does that on purpose to spend more for the 6050. The 6050 comes with an extra bulb which isn’t expensive and also a mount which aren’t expensive. Really no other difference. Maybe I should build a hush box for it so you can’t really see it.


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It is the good Chief mount with custom plate. As far as mounts go, it is an expensive mount. $264 MSRP and that does not count the drop tube and ceiling plate cost.

tidwelr1 09-22-2019 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Garrett (Post 58593272)
Actually, the 6050 is a pretty good deal compared to the 5050, these days. 6050 has black case, three year warranty, spare lamp and a good Chief mount. It has anamorphic functions, more calibration controls and hand selected lens.



Thanks. I’m leaning that direction. What size screen would be ideal for a 12’ wall sitting 10-11 ft from the screen?


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Mike Garrett 09-22-2019 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tidwelr1 (Post 58594012)
Thanks. I’m leaning that direction. What size screen would be ideal for a 12’ wall sitting 10-11 ft from the screen?


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I can't answer what would be ideal to you. One, are we strictly talking size or are we talking HDR performance? Then the question of lamp life also comes into play. We have not even talked about scope or 16:9. I guess the first question would be, what do you want to watch on your projector, movies, sports, games or all three? Are you wanting to size it for HDR? What about 3D? If mainly movies, do you watch mainly scope movies, or a lot of streaming movies? Are you limited with ceiling height? Are we talking AT screen or solid screen? Fixed or electric? Budget?

tidwelr1 09-22-2019 05:21 PM

Another help me choose thread - mixed use room - gaming and great picture for movies
 
HDR isn’t a huge deal to me. There’s very little content out there without buying a movie in 4K. I only buy Disney movies and typically want the blue ray set bc It comes with a dvd to use in the car setup. I’ve only watched a few things in HDR on my 65” Sony 900e. I’ve never heard of the size of a screen mattering for HDR. Can you explain why that matters? Are you mainly thinking that a screen too large would have poor HDR performance? With that said, I’ve been thinking 100-110” for the screen based on what I’ve read. Maybe smaller if people think one of those size would be too large. The room will be used for watching movies, sports, and gaming.


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skylarlove1999 09-22-2019 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tidwelr1 (Post 58594140)
HDR isn’t a huge deal to me. There’s very little content out there without buying a movie in 4K. I only buy Disney movies and typically want the blue ray set bc It comes with a dvd to use in the car setup. I’ve only watched a few things in HDR on my 65” Sony 900e. I’ve never heard of the size of a screen mattering for HDR. Can you explain why that matters? Are you mainly thinking that a screen too large would have poor HDR performance? With that said, I’ve been thinking 100-110” for the screen based on what I’ve read. Maybe smaller if people think one of those size would be too large. The room will be used for watching movies, sports, and gaming.


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The larger the screen the more the light is spread out. Think of flashlight shining on a wall. The closer you are to the wall the smaller the image and it is at its brightest. Move farther away the flashlight image is bigger and noticeably less bright because of how spread out the light has now become. That is how the projected light works. The smaller the image the brighter it will be. The larger the image the dimmer the image becomes. That is why screen size in relation to projector lumens always matters but especially when trying to achieve a Higher Dynamic Range aka HDR. If you only buy blurays and only Disney and won't be buying 4k discs maybe a 1080 Projector might better use of your setup and money.

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blee0120 09-22-2019 05:48 PM

I have used a JVC in brighter rooms before. I paired them with a higher gain screen. At night when the environment was darker, the JVC looked great. The Epson is a good projector for less but don't think a JVC will not work because you'll lose contrast in the day time because all projectors will not look their best in a brighter room. There are always little things you can do to make the best of a bright room.

tidwelr1 09-22-2019 07:38 PM

I may have to use a 100” screen bc I’m using a credenza that will house all the electronics and my center channel will sit on top of it. In my current setup, the bottom of the tv is 40” from the floor and it’s clearing the center channel by about 2”. The ceiling height is 9’, but there’s crown molding that 2-3 inches. The 110” screen height might be too much. I’m thinking a 100” might be better if we’re sitting 10-11 feet away anyways. Thoughts?


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Bytehoven 09-22-2019 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tidwelr1 (Post 58594536)
I may have to use a 100” screen bc I’m using a credenza that will house all the electronics and my center channel will sit on top of it. In my current setup, the bottom of the tv is 40” from the floor and it’s clearing the center channel by about 2”. The ceiling height is 9’, but there’s crown molding that 2-3 inches. The 110” screen height might be too much. I’m thinking a 100” might be better if we’re sitting 10-11 feet away anyways. Thoughts?


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I currently have a 128" scope screen at 40" off the floor. My previous 105" scope screen was 46" off the floor. I got screen height complaints with the old setup, but at just 6" lower I no longer get complaints.

Any lower, the 2nd row guests are starting to see the heads of those in front. My 2nd row has a 14" elevation change (2 steps)

Have you thought about flying the center channel above the screen?

tidwelr1 09-22-2019 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bytehoven (Post 58594614)
I currently have a 128" scope screen at 40" off the floor. My previous 105" scope screen was 46" off the floor. I got screen height complaints with the old setup, but at just 6" lower I no longer get complaints.



Any lower, the 2nd row guests are starting to see the heads of those in front. My 2nd row has a 14" elevation change (2 steps)



Have you thought about flying the center channel above the screen?


Lol. I have a paradigm cc-690. That ain’t happening. What’s your ceiling height with your setup?


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tidwelr1 09-22-2019 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 (Post 58594184)
The larger the screen the more the light is spread out. Think of flashlight shining on a wall. The closer you are to the wall the smaller the image and it is at its brightest. Move farther away the flashlight image is bigger and noticeably less bright because of how spread out the light has now become. That is how the projected light works. The smaller the image the brighter it will be. The larger the image the dimmer the image becomes. That is why screen size in relation to projector lumens always matters but especially when trying to achieve a Higher Dynamic Range aka HDR. If you only buy blurays and only Disney and won't be buying 4k discs maybe a 1080 Projector might better use of your setup and money.

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I had thought about that exact thing. I would buy the movies, but too many movies suck these days to take the chance. I would rather spend $2 to rent it from redbox. Redbox is starting to get 4K rentals now though. The amt of 4k programming is still so limited. I just downgraded Netflix bc of the lack of 4K material. I think that will get worse with Netflix when Disney pulls all of their material away from them.


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