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post #391 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 06:57 PM
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There has to be a good way to photograph the differences in black levels on various projectors, right?
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post #392 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Moore View Post
There has to be a good way to photograph the differences in black levels on various projectors, right?
Ya you can easily compare black levels but you have to have them side by side.

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Originally Posted by tbase1 View Post
Wow.....just came across this thread and have to say it's very helpful. I own Sim2 Mico 50 and Runco Q750i........The Q750i wasn't mine until my friend lost his job and couldn't afford to refund me.
Welcome to the club ;]
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post #393 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 07:04 PM
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Welcome to the club ;][/QUOTE]

Thanks........What screen and settings do you guys use for your Mico 50 or Q750i?

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post #394 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 07:13 PM
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Ya you can easily compare black levels but you have to have them side by side.
I don't think that would work except on a 35mm film camera. Modern cameras don't have a real iso. You can adjust curves, etc. So you don't really have any idea which would be brighter, since the software compensates brightness. Even side by side.
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post #395 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Debonaire View Post
I don't think that would work except on a 35mm film camera. Modern cameras don't have a real iso. You can adjust curves, etc. So you don't really have any idea which would be brighter, since the software compensates brightness. Even side by side.
I don't believe he was talking about a picture. If he was, then I agree it is hard to do.
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post #396 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tbase1 View Post
Welcome to the club ;]
Thanks........What screen and settings do you guys use for your Mico 50 or Q750i?[/QUOTE]

I use a retractable XY black crystal 0.8 with a mico40, and since its a smaller screen I have to use a cavision 4x6 nd2 filter for comfortable brightness at around 10fl for SDR. Great black level in that situation though.

For settings I mostly use rec709d65, dynamic black on, all the sharpening off. But occasionally Ill use the LTI and/or detail enhancement for certain content or the native gamut for certain content.

Have you used madvrs hdr to sdr with either of your projectors?
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post #397 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bdht View Post
H9090 is 700 lumens, ~1800:1 native, 4x 7200:1 dynamic, 8x 14,200:1
Q750i is 450 lumens, 3500:1 native, 4x 14000:1 dynamic, 8x 28,000:1.
The q750i appears to have its dynamic dimming function tweaked compared to the h9090 as well, it's less noticeable, less brightness shifts, grayscale flashes, etc.
Link for those numbers? The H9090 could do 800 calibrated lumens with Brilliant Color off and 1,000 calibrated lumens with Brilliant Color on.
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post #398 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't believe he was talking about a picture. If he was, then I agree it is hard to do.
Am I insane?
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post #399 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Link for those numbers? The H9090 could do 800 calibrated lumens with Brilliant Color off and 1,000 calibrated lumens with Brilliant Color on.
I've consistently measured 700 from 1000 to 3000 hours useage, but I'm using a cheap meter so 800s probably right.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...jector-review/
Oo they report 1300:1 for the contrast.

Here they measure 2000:1 for the q750i contrast but thats with the contrast setting at 20 O.o
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...led-projector/
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post #400 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 07:54 PM
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Am I insane?
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post #401 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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post #402 of 814 Old 05-18-2020, 10:54 PM
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Hi. Sorry, I thought tnaik talked about it here already. I should just wait then to let him spill the beans.
@tnaik4 Spill the beans already! So which class DLP wizard are you going to be?
Hahah , i m in the process of getting a Sim2 M.150, should have it in about 10 days if everything goes according to plan, so really cant wait to see how it ll look since it was regarged by most as a reference projector back in 2012-2013.
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post #403 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Hahah , i m in the process of getting a Sim2 M.150, should have it in about 10 days if everything goes according to plan, so really cant wait to see how it ll look since it was regarged by most as a reference projector back in 2012-2013.
Where did you find one and how much was the damage? That should be an awesome piece of kit.
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post #404 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debonaire View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Hahah , i m in the process of getting a Sim2 M.150, should have it in about 10 days if everything goes according to plan, so really cant wait to see how it ll look since it was regarged by most as a reference projector back in 2012-2013.
Where did you find one and how much was the damage? That should be an awesome piece of kit.
I found one on Audiogon , it was a demo unit with 11200 hours on it, it was recently refurbished and in excellent condition, considering its led life is 30000 hours i didnt fret much about the hours, got it for $2500.
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post #405 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 06:30 AM
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I believe there is a little marketing going on there. I doubt settings and or conditions are the same between the two.
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Last edited by Mike Garrett; 05-19-2020 at 06:35 AM.
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post #406 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 07:15 AM
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I believe there is a little marketing going on there. I doubt settings and or conditions are the same between the two.
The upgraded Optoma UHZ65 uses house settings it is not calibrated to standards, and the software and physical projector is modified, from color filters to how it uses dynamic laser dimming, to how it favours some colors and greyscale tones. So it is not a "reference" image strictly to standards, its the "best" image they could get it to make. So could be viewed as an anathema to accuracy or wow that looks better depending on your ideology.

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post #407 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 07:51 AM
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The upgraded Optoma UHZ65 uses house settings it is not calibrated to standards, and the software and physical projector is modified, from color filters to how it uses dynamic laser dimming, to how it favours some colors and greyscale tones. So it is not a "reference" image strictly to standards, its the "best" image they could get it to make. So could be viewed as an anathema to accuracy or wow that looks better depending on your ideology.
I just know these same guys did a shootout with a JVC and the video looks like the Theo was as good as the JVC and yet Kris was there and said the JVC beat the Theo in every scene. Kris said the video did not represent what was seen on screen. Kris did say that they were shocked at how good the JVC looked and they said they did not realize the JVC could look as good as it did. So, like I said, a little marketing is going on.
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post #408 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 09:04 AM
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I had the Vivitek H9090 and RS600 in my room at the same time for a couple months. The H9090 has contrast as good as any of the other LED DLP, pretty much. In a good room, contrast and black levels of the H9090 were not that close. The H9090 threw a nice image, but contrast, black levels and light output could not compete against the cheaper JVC. In my room (black pit) the JVC threw the better image. In bright SDR scenes, the H9090 was equal to the JVC.
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H9090 is 700 lumens, ~1800:1 native, 4x 7200:1 dynamic, 8x 14,200:1
Q750i is 450 lumens, 3500:1 native, 4x 14000:1 dynamic, 8x 28,000:1. The q750i appears to have its dynamic dimming function tweaked compared to the h9090 as well, it's less noticeable, less brightness shifts, grayscale flashes, etc.
Brian, I haven't seen the Q750i in person so that's why I was asking; but if it's very much like the Vivitek, I'm with Mike.
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post #409 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 09:24 AM
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The upgraded Optoma UHZ65 uses house settings it is not calibrated to standards, and the software and physical projector is modified, from color filters to how it uses dynamic laser dimming, to how it favours some colors and greyscale tones. So it is not a "reference" image strictly to standards, its the "best" image they could get it to make. So could be viewed as an anathema to accuracy or wow that looks better depending on your ideology.
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I just know these same guys did a shootout with a JVC and the video looks like the Theo was as good as the JVC and yet Kris was there and said the JVC beat the Theo in every scene. Kris said the video did not represent what was seen on screen. Kris did say that they were shocked at how good the JVC looked and they said they did not realize the JVC could look as good as it did. So, like I said, a little marketing is going on.
I don't think it's marketing because those guys also sell the JVCs including the NX7 itself.

As far as comparisons, I did have the laser UHZ65 without the upgrade (the Theo) and the NX7 in the same space, using the same screen, and throw, but not an A/B shootout. I felt the NX7 threw a better image than the UHZ65 base version.

Color: The UHZ65 has an advantage in a uniform light source. Laser: The laser adds an incredible texture to the image. However, I began to see significant RBE on the UHZ65. Contrast: Its dynamic Black in DB2, I measured over 25,000:1.
The function creates higher contrast but black floor was stable so the higher laser setting was preferred. So perhaps the added filter in the Theo version helps there. I don't know.
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post #410 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 09:39 AM
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Let's put what you guys are discussing about the Theo aside, these laser DLPs have a lot of potential. I mentioned the VL7860, the sister laser projector of the UHZ65, earlier. I was expecting the two to be identical in performance, but they were not on that sample at least. The VL's DB produced a noticeably low black floor. I was just watching it and didn't measure, but blacks looked really black. Using some of the same content I saw on the UHZ65, the picture was clean/pristine and I didn't see the same amount of RBE on the Acer. Too bad the VL was discontinued.

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post #411 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe there is a little marketing going on there. I doubt settings and or conditions are the same between the two.
What does that matter? It's just a picture of an example of two projectors side by side showing a difference in black level.
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post #412 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Let's put what you guys are discussing about the Theo aside, these laser DLPs have a lot of potential. I mentioned the VL7860, the sister laser projector of the UHZ65, earlier. I was expecting the two to be identical in performance, but they were not on that sample at least. The VL's DB produced a noticeably low black floor. I was just watching it and didn't measure, but blacks looked really black. Using some of the same content I saw on the UHZ65, the picture was clean/pristine and I didn't see the same amount of RBE on the Acer. Too bad the VL was discontinued.
The solid state diodes do illuminate the dmd much better than uhp bulbs.

Lenses are a big part of the equation regardless, but it seems to have a greater impact on rgb led, and perhaps laser/wheel as well.

The lens uniformity on the uhz65 measures pretty low, 56%
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...ter-Review.htm
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post #413 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 11:02 AM
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I found the video referenced above and you can clearly see a difference in the levels. It'd be nice to see similar comparisons with some of the projectors discussed in this thread, although I know that is asking a lot.
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post #414 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I found the video referenced above and you can clearly see a difference in the levels. It'd be nice to see similar comparisons with some of the projectors discussed in this thread, although I know that is asking a lot.
That website has alot of comparison photos/videos through various adl and picture content levels, really great reference. But ya I agree would love to see a Mico and a Lumis compared like that to the JVCs and Sonys
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post #415 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 11:28 AM
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The solid state diodes do illuminate the dmd much better than uhp bulbs.

Lenses are a big part of the equation regardless, but it seems to have a greater impact on rgb led, and perhaps laser/wheel as well.

The lens uniformity on the uhz65 measures pretty low, 56%
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...ter-Review.htm

It would be nice if you could change out the lens from the BenQ 9060 and mod a laser DLP. Unfortunately, my doctoral degree isn't in engineering. I wouldn't even know where to begin to accomplish something like that.
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post #416 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 11:46 AM
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It would be nice if you could change out the lens from the BenQ 9060 and mod a laser DLP. Unfortunately, my doctoral degree isn't in engineering. I wouldn't even know where to begin to accomplish something like that.
Git 'r dun brah!

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Quote:Originally Posted by Kirnak

Do you have a link to any information about doing a mod like that? I'd be very interested in reading about that. Thanks!


Here is my thread at Lumenlab.

http://lumenlab.com/forums/index.php...9&#entry326419

some more.

http://lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24619


http://www.carookee.com/forum/broadc...0.0.01105.html

http://www.emtronics.co.uk/projects/led_proj/main.html
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post #417 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 11:52 AM
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What does that matter? It's just a picture of an example of two projectors side by side showing a difference in black level.
What do you mean that does not matter? I can take two identical projectors and show them side by side, but by using different settings, can make one look much better than the other. One is not improved over the other. The other was crippled. That is what I mean by saying I think a little of this is marketing. Filters can be added to improve certain aspects like wider color space or improve black levels, but all of that comes at a cost in light output. So you are trading one thing for another.
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post #418 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you mean that does not matter? I can take two identical projectors and show them side by side, but by using different settings, can make one look much better than the other. One is not improved over the other. The other was crippled. That is what I mean by saying I think a little of this is marketing. Filters can be added to improve certain aspects like wider color space or improve black levels, but all of that comes at a cost in light output. So you are trading one thing for another.
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I don't believe he was talking about a picture. If he was, then I agree it is hard to do.
-.-
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post #419 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not talking about the projectors, I'm talking about pictures of side by side comparisons showing a difference in black levels...
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post #420 of 814 Old 05-19-2020, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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