Used LS10000 or new 5050 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 10-21-2019, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Used LS10000 or new 5050

I haven't found a comparison of these two units, but am wondering if anyone on here has seen both and could comment. Wondering if getting a little bit older used Laser Epson is a better value than getting the 5050 new? Hopefully someone out here can help the new kid on the block out.
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post #2 of 22 Old 10-21-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ColoradoJKUR View Post
I haven't found a comparison of these two units, but am wondering if anyone on here has seen both and could comment. Wondering if getting a little bit older used Laser Epson is a better value than getting the 5050 new? Hopefully someone out here can help the new kid on the block out.
What are your room conditions, light controlled with dark non reflective walls , living room with bright walls and daylight, somewhere in between? What size screen ? SDR content mostly with a little HDR? What % movie versus sports? What type of screen?

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post #3 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
What are your room conditions, light controlled with dark non reflective walls , living room with bright walls and daylight, somewhere in between? What size screen ? SDR content mostly with a little HDR? What % movie versus sports? What type of screen?

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All good questions, room 85-90% light controlled. It's in a basement with black windows, however the staircase is open to the floor above and about 40 feet from the screen, if I close the blinds on the main floor on the sunniest day its 85-90% light controlled. I just finished building a milskin 2.35 screen that's 145" diagonal (white over black). Current projector doesn't have HDR so I don't know how much I'll truly watch. I have been acquiring 4k UHD movies with the anticipation of watching more. We watch probably 30-40% sports/tv to 60-70% movies.

Current sources- Marantz AV7003, Apple TV 4k, xBox One S, Oppo BDP-83

Near distant upgrades - Oppo 203, Marantz AV 7703/7704, and projector TBD.
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post #4 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ColoradoJKUR View Post
All good questions, room 85-90% light controlled. It's in a basement with black windows, however the staircase is open to the floor above and about 40 feet from the screen, if I close the blinds on the main floor on the sunniest day its 85-90% light controlled. I just finished building a milskin 2.35 screen that's 145" diagonal (white over black). Current projector doesn't have HDR so I don't know how much I'll truly watch. I have been acquiring 4k UHD movies with the anticipation of watching more. We watch probably 30-40% sports/tv to 60-70% movies.



Current sources- Marantz AV7003, Apple TV 4k, xBox One S, Oppo BDP-83



Near distant upgrades - Oppo 203, Marantz AV 7703/7704, and projector TBD.
I would not buy an Oppo 203. You can use your old Oppo for SACD and other formats that most players don't support. Save yourself some money and buy this UHD player. It doesn't have Dolby Vision but for a projector you don't need it. I have the Panasonic ub820 which replaced my Oppo 203. I would have bought the 420 but it wasn't available in the US until last month. You won't be disappointed. Doesn't have the build quality of an Oppo but it outperforms it. Even if you can find one Oppo 203 resale is now over double the MSRP .

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post #5 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ColoradoJKUR View Post
I haven't found a comparison of these two units, but am wondering if anyone on here has seen both and could comment. Wondering if getting a little bit older used Laser Epson is a better value than getting the 5050 new? Hopefully someone out here can help the new kid on the block out.

LS all the way! I will never go back to a bulb technology.
Epson's LS is a super device and I just love it. Superp blacks and contrast. Very riche color, stable light output. A no brainer in my opinion. The image is just clean and awesome. Laser, Laser dimming & RLCD are doing it's magic.
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post #6 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 10:54 AM
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LS all the way! I will never go back to a bulb technology.
Epson's LS is a super device and I just love it. Superp blacks and contrast. Very riche color, stable light output. A no brainer in my opinion. The image is just clean and awesome. Laser, Laser dimming & RLCD are doing it's magic.
I wonder if you feel the same way if I took away your madVR. madVR makes every projector look better. Laser is definitely the light source of the the future. Epson just needs to put one in a first class native 4K projector like the JVC RS4500 or the Sony VW5000ES .

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post #7 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
I wonder if you feel the same way if I took away your madVR. madVR makes every projector look better. Laser is definitely the light source of the the future. Epson just needs to put one in a first class native 4K projector like the JVC RS4500 or the Sony VW5000ES .

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I had my LS before I had madVR. I did never regret buying it. RLCD+Laser alone is my argument. No Epson bulb projector will get that feeling in an image.
LS vs 5050 - at least for me - really is a no brainer.
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post #8 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 11:17 AM
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I had my LS before I had madVR. I did never regret buying it. RLCD+Laser alone is my argument. No Epson bulb projector will get that feeling in an image.
LS vs 5050 - at least for me - really is a no brainer.
I can understand you love your Epson laser projector. It received decent reviews but not really any rave reviews. Have you had a chance to compare the 5050 in your room without MADVR to your laser without madVR? It has been some time since I have seen an LS10000. I recall being impressed but for MSRP of $7999 I wasn't blown away...I remember I expected more brightness from a laser light source. It did throw a crisp detailed image but I would have expected native 4K at that price point. It can be found new still for less than MSRP. But at that price I would take the JVC NX7 over any EPSON projector . The LS10000 is limited to 10 bit color as well. 12bit is newer and better.

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post #9 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
I can understand you love your Epson laser projector. It received decent reviews but not really any rave reviews. Have you had a chance to compare the 5050 in your room without MADVR to your laser without madVR? It has been some time since I have seen an LS10000. I recall being impressed but for MSRP of $7999 I wasn't blown away...I remember I expected more brightness from a laser light source. It did throw a crisp detailed image but I would have expected native 4K at that price point. It can be found new still for less than MSRP. But at that price I would take the JVC NX7 over any EPSON projector . The LS10000 is limited to 10 bit color as well. 12bit is newer and better.

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I have seen some other Epsons at my dealer in recent time. Yes, the LS10k is not very bright. Yes, it is a bit older. Expectations of native 4K and others are (were) fine when it arrived for that high MSRP. But today you can get a used LS for less or equal than a new 5050 i.e. If I had to pay $8k now of course I would NOT choose it (btw. I paid less than $5k NEW 2 years ago). But if op can get a used LS10k for a decent price I would prefer it against any other Epson right now.
Sony 4Ks or JVC N7/NX9 are not mentioned in op's post. He asked for a comparison between LS10k and 5050 - and here I would still tend to the LS. Very analog, filmic image. Deep blacks, rich contrast, no visible pixel structure. Laser dimming and dynamic iris. Spot on DCI-P3. Of the two LS10k and 5050 (and that was the inital question) I would choose the LS in terms of overall picture quality.
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post #10 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AmigoHD View Post
I have seen some other Epsons at my dealer in recent time. Yes, the LS10k is not very bright. Yes, it is a bit older. Expectations of native 4K and others are (were) fine when it arrived for that high MSRP. But today you can get a used LS for less or equal than a new 5050 i.e. If I had to pay $8k now of course I would NOT choose it (btw. I paid less than $5k NEW 2 years ago). But if op can get a used LS10k for a decent price I would prefer it against any other Epson right now.
Sony 4Ks or JVC N7/NX9 are not mentioned in op's post. He asked for a comparison between LS10k and 5050 - and here I would still tend to the LS. Very analog, filmic image. Deep blacks, rich contrast, no visible pixel structure. Laser dimming and dynamic iris. Spot on DCI-P3. Of the two LS10k and 5050 (and that was the inital question) I would choose the LS in terms of overall picture quality.
I understand your devotion and love for your projector. I just wanted to make sure the OP is aware you haven't yet had the opportunity to view a 5050. So you are basing your recommendation on your own experiences. Doesn't sound like you have seen the JVC NX7 as of yet either. Thank you for sharing all the LS10000 has to offer. I am sure the OP appreciates your sharing your experiences with it. Seems like you got a great deal.

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post #11 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by AmigoHD View Post
LS all the way! I will never go back to a bulb technology.
Epson's LS is a super device and I just love it. Superp blacks and contrast. Very riche color, stable light output. A no brainer in my opinion. The image is just clean and awesome. Laser, Laser dimming & RLCD are doing it's magic.
If I had my x990 (rs640) purchase to do over, knowing what the future would offer with madvr, ub820, lumagen, I'm not sure I'd have made the same choice. It's great to hear from happy LS owners, and maybe the reason why the next LS design has yet to drop.

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... Very analog, filmic image. Deep blacks, rich contrast, no visible pixel structure. Laser dimming and dynamic iris. Spot on DCI-P3. Of the two LS10k and 5050 (and that was the inital question) I would choose the LS in terms of overall picture quality.
Those really are the PQ attributes to consider with the LS and the OP was wise to imagine the potential of considering the LS laser alternative.

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post #12 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 03:32 PM
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post #13 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoHD View Post
I have seen some other Epsons at my dealer in recent time. Yes, the LS10k is not very bright. Yes, it is a bit older. Expectations of native 4K and others are (were) fine when it arrived for that high MSRP. But today you can get a used LS for less or equal than a new 5050 i.e. If I had to pay $8k now of course I would NOT choose it (btw. I paid less than $5k NEW 2 years ago). But if op can get a used LS10k for a decent price I would prefer it against any other Epson right now.
Sony 4Ks or JVC N7/NX9 are not mentioned in op's post. He asked for a comparison between LS10k and 5050 - and here I would still tend to the LS. Very analog, filmic image. Deep blacks, rich contrast, no visible pixel structure. Laser dimming and dynamic iris. Spot on DCI-P3. Of the two LS10k and 5050 (and that was the inital question) I would choose the LS in terms of overall picture quality.
The problem with the LS10000 is it does not do HDR. It has the DCI filter, but Epson failed to install BT2020 support, so the projector does not know how to map the HDR content.
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post #14 of 22 Old 10-22-2019, 10:26 PM
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The problem with the LS10000 is it does not do HDR. It has the DCI filter, but Epson failed to install BT2020 support, so the projector does not know how to map the HDR content.
True. Good argument.

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post #15 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 02:25 AM
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Assuming your milskin screen has a gain less than 1, I would not get the LS10K due to lack of brightness. I used to have one with a 127" diag 2:35 screen (30% less area than yours) with a 1.3 gain, and the LS10K struggled with brightness in my 100% light controlled room. If I did the math right, you would need a screen with a gain of almost 2 to equal what I had which really wasn't enough for me even without using the DCI filter.

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post #16 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
I would not buy an Oppo 203. You can use your old Oppo for SACD and other formats that most players don't support. Save yourself some money and buy this UHD player. It doesn't have Dolby Vision but for a projector you don't need it. I have the Panasonic ub820 which replaced my Oppo 203. I would have bought the 420 but it wasn't available in the US until last month. You won't be disappointed. Doesn't have the build quality of an Oppo but it outperforms it. Even if you can find one Oppo 203 resale is now over double the MSRP .

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/panason...?skuId=6361757

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Thanks for the info on the 420, I'll definitely have to check it out I watched the comparison of the Oppo 203 vs UB9000 and thought the Oppo still out performed it. You can find the 203 used for about the same price as a new UB9000 so thought if its better built has a better picture and audio its worth buying the used one at relatively the same price. That said I'll definitely checkout the UB420.
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post #17 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info guys it truly helps! I'm definitely leaning more towards the 5050, budget for the PJ is right at &3k, if there's another projector in this price range I should research and consider I'm all open.

I did some searching last night to understand lens shift calculators to see if my distance and height of the PJ will work for a 5050 and I'll be honest I didn't quite understand it. Is there a good guide/tutorial in the forum somewhere? I searched google and here and couldn't find anything that really explained the calulator.
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post #18 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ColoradoJKUR View Post
Thanks for all the info guys it truly helps! I'm definitely leaning more towards the 5050, budget for the PJ is right at &3k, if there's another projector in this price range I should research and consider I'm all open.

I did some searching last night to understand lens shift calculators to see if my distance and height of the PJ will work for a 5050 and I'll be honest I didn't quite understand it. Is there a good guide/tutorial in the forum somewhere? I searched google and here and couldn't find anything that really explained the calulator.
Provide the following and I would be happy to look at it.

Screen size
Screen aspect ratio
Throw distance
Vertical distance from lens to top of image (this assumes ceiling mounted above screen)
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post #19 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Provide the following and I would be happy to look at it.

Screen size
Screen aspect ratio
Throw distance
Vertical distance from lens to top of image (this assumes ceiling mounted above screen)
Thanks Mike!

Screen size: 57" x 134" (145.57" diag.)
Screen aspect ratio: 2.35 (going to use lens memory for watch 16x9)
Throw distance: Currently 15' 10" (this is flexible can be moved as far forward or back as needed
Ceiling: 8'9"
Mount: Plan to build enclosed vented hush box and mount to ceiling, I'd like to keep this high as possible.
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post #20 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ColoradoJKUR View Post
Thanks Mike!

Screen size: 57" x 134" (145.57" diag.)
Screen aspect ratio: 2.35 (going to use lens memory for watch 16x9)
Throw distance: Currently 15' 10" (this is flexible can be moved as far forward or back as needed
Ceiling: 8'9"
Mount: Plan to build enclosed vented hush box and mount to ceiling, I'd like to keep this high as possible.
Your planned throw of 15'-10" is good. I assume the screen image will be at least 24" above the floor? If so, then you can mount the projector as close to the ceiling as possible. But with that said, I would prefer to use a little less of the vertical lens shift. That would mean raising the image, lower the projector or doing a little of both.
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post #21 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Your planned throw of 15'-10" is good. I assume the screen image will be at least 24" above the floor? If so, then you can mount the projector as close to the ceiling as possible. But with that said, I would prefer to use a little less of the vertical lens shift. That would mean raising the image, lower the projector or doing a little of both.
As it sits now the screen is 23.5" off the floor and the shelf in the hush box sits 12" below the ceiling. So in essence the projector's shelf is 7'9" from the floor. Thanks for the help it's much appreciated.
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post #22 of 22 Old 10-23-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ColoradoJKUR View Post
As it sits now the screen is 23.5" off the floor and the shelf in the hush box sits 12" below the ceiling. So in essence the projector's shelf is 7'9" from the floor. Thanks for the help it's much appreciated.
All of that is within the range of the projector.
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