Epson 5050UB vs Sony VW295ES - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 61 Old 11-09-2019, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Epson 5050UB vs Sony VW295ES

Hello all, I am in need of upgrading my former Epson 8350 to a capable 4k HDR projector. I will be using it for 40% games (low latency is a big thing for me), 40% (4k and regular blu-ray) movies, 20% youtube/twitch. Of my choices, I mainly narrowed it down to 2, maybe 3. Right now I have blackout curtains but I live in an apartment and I don't know if I will put up a projector screen yet for my current situation .The walls are white and my throw is 12' 4" so I will be using the zoom function on these. Here is what I came up for after researching.

Epson 5050UB - Image will be about 126" with input lag from 22-28ms. It has better color and can hit more of the HDR P3, but how will this go with my wall? At my viewing distance of 10', I should be able to see a difference in 4kand I am worried if I will see the screen door affect on a pixel shifting projector that can only get 4mil pixels. This may not be noticeable in all movies, but will it be in gaming? I heard the settings are user friendly as well compared to the Sony. Lastly, I did suffer from dust blobs that the Epson are known for, has anyone had issues with the 5050ub or generally with it? The price is hard to beat for what it delivers.

Sony VW295ES - Image will be about 117" with input lag from 27-36ms. I am use to higher lumens based on using the 8350 in the past, the Sony is not quite as bright but how will that go with my white walls? The contrast is better according to sound and vision's website but from videos it doesn't have as much "pop" as the Epson which can be overly bright. I do like that it is native 4k with 8mil vs 4mil from the Espon. It also seems more future proof due to being true 4k. I did get to an in person viewing and was blown away by the scenes from Life of Pi and Game of Thrones. I did not for the 5050UB.

I also did do some research for the JVC-DLA-NX5 and it hard great HDR, color, and auto tone mapping, but I read the input lag was higher which is a deal break for me. Projector Central s aid was up to 50ms for the similar NX7 model but another one from h-m-entertainment said 38ms. Can anyone confirm the input lag on it? Most people preferred it over the native entry levels like the 4k Sony VW295ES but for $1000 more, will I even see a color difference with my current setup?

Any other input about settings, features, and simple calibration, please let me know. For single player games, do you turn off input reduction and calibrate to improve HDR?
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post #2 of 61 Old 11-09-2019, 07:47 PM
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I was doing some similar search comparison about 5 or 6 months ago and ended up picking up a slightly used Sony 695ES and have been pretty happy with my decision. To get the best out of the projector you really need to have a dark, light controlled room. If that will not be the case, the 5050UB might be the best option.
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post #3 of 61 Old 11-09-2019, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
I was doing some similar search comparison about 5 or 6 months ago and ended up picking up a slightly used Sony 695ES and have been pretty happy with my decision. To get the best out of the projector you really need to have a dark, light controlled room. If that will not be the case, the 5050UB might be the best option.
Okay thanks. I did see the Sony on ebay from multiple sellers with good feedback but I'm worried if I buy "new from ebay" won't you be missing out on the warranty? As for the dark room, I can control the ambient light but not the walls due to it being an apartment. Would you still suggest the 5050UB?
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post #4 of 61 Old 11-10-2019, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Yum_Cha View Post
Hello all, I am in need of upgrading my former Epson 8350 to a capable 4k HDR projector. I will be using it for 40% games (low latency is a big thing for me), 40% (4k and regular blu-ray) movies, 20% youtube/twitch. Of my choices, I mainly narrowed it down to 2, maybe 3. Right now I have blackout curtains but I live in an apartment and I don't know if I will put up a projector screen yet for my current situation .The walls are white and my throw is 12' 4" so I will be using the zoom function on these. Here is what I came up for after researching.

Epson 5050UB - Image will be about 126" with input lag from 22-28ms. It has better color and can hit more of the HDR P3, but how will this go with my wall? At my viewing distance of 10', I should be able to see a difference in 4kand I am worried if I will see the screen door affect on a pixel shifting projector that can only get 4mil pixels. This may not be noticeable in all movies, but will it be in gaming? I heard the settings are user friendly as well compared to the Sony. Lastly, I did suffer from dust blobs that the Epson are known for, has anyone had issues with the 5050ub or generally with it? The price is hard to beat for what it delivers.

Sony VW295ES - Image will be about 117" with input lag from 27-36ms. I am use to higher lumens based on using the 8350 in the past, the Sony is not quite as bright but how will that go with my white walls? The contrast is better according to sound and vision's website but from videos it doesn't have as much "pop" as the Epson which can be overly bright. I do like that it is native 4k with 8mil vs 4mil from the Espon. It also seems more future proof due to being true 4k. I did get to an in person viewing and was blown away by the scenes from Life of Pi and Game of Thrones. I did not for the 5050UB.

I also did do some research for the JVC-DLA-NX5 and it hard great HDR, color, and auto tone mapping, but I read the input lag was higher which is a deal break for me. Projector Central s aid was up to 50ms for the similar NX7 model but another one from h-m-entertainment said 38ms. Can anyone confirm the input lag on it? Most people preferred it over the native entry levels like the 4k Sony VW295ES but for $1000 more, will I even see a color difference with my current setup?

Any other input about settings, features, and simple calibration, please let me know. For single player games, do you turn off input reduction and calibrate to improve HDR?
For practical purposes, the Sony 295 and JVC NX5 have the same input lag. What I'd say is that both the NX5 and 295ES are going to be far better for gaming since you can game at 4K. Games at 4K is a much more impressive presentation than gaming at 1080p or pixel shifted 4K. Games at 4K are far more impressive than movies at 4K. So if gaming is one of your main uses, 4K Native would be a must for me.

Of course i think the NX5 absolutely destroys the 295ES in most areas. But if you're deciding between 295ES and some epson, I'd definitely go 295Es.

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post #5 of 61 Old 11-10-2019, 06:50 AM
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Okay thanks. I did see the Sony on ebay from multiple sellers with good feedback but I'm worried if I buy "new from ebay" won't you be missing out on the warranty? As for the dark room, I can control the ambient light but not the walls due to it being an apartment. Would you still suggest the 5050UB?

I don't do much gaming so I was mostly looking at it from the perspective of just watching movie content. I wanted the NX7 but found the 695ES much cheaper, so if you can find a 695ES cheaper that is a good option for both movies and gaming, but if not, it seems the NX5 would be a good option. I think if it were mostly movies, in your room, the 5050UB would be good, but not so sure on the gaming side. I would listen to @markmon1 , he knows what he's talking about
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post #6 of 61 Old 11-10-2019, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
I don't do much gaming so I was mostly looking at it from the perspective of just watching movie content. I wanted the NX7 but found the 695ES much cheaper, so if you can find a 695ES cheaper that is a good option for both movies and gaming, but if not, it seems the NX5 would be a good option. I think if it were mostly movies, in your room, the 5050UB would be good, but not so sure on the gaming side. I would listen to @markmon1 , he knows what he's talking about
That does not make sense. You are in the US. The MSRP when you purchased was $8,000 for the JVC and $10,000 for the Sony. If the JVC was more from that dealer, it sounds like he was trying to steer you in one direction, because dealer cost on the JVC is lower, just like MSRP is lower.
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post #7 of 61 Old 11-10-2019, 09:43 AM
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That does not make sense. You are in the US. The MSRP when you purchased was $8,000 for the JVC and $10,000 for the Sony. If the JVC was more from that dealer, it sounds like he was trying to steer you in one direction, because dealer cost on the JVC is lower, just like MSRP is lower.

Sorry, wasn't talking about MSRP. I bought it used with 140 hours usage on the projector and it was several thousand dollars less than if I were to have bought a new NX7. I agree if I were shopping both the Sony and the JVC new it would have been cheaper to go with the JVC. I just got lucky and found a deal I couldn't pass up on the 695ES.
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post #8 of 61 Old 11-10-2019, 02:35 PM
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Sorry, wasn't talking about MSRP. I bought it used with 140 hours usage on the projector and it was several thousand dollars less than if I were to have bought a new NX7. I agree if I were shopping both the Sony and the JVC new it would have been cheaper to go with the JVC. I just got lucky and found a deal I couldn't pass up on the 695ES.
Okay, now it makes sense. A lightly used VW695 vs a new RS2000/NX7. Though I do not see how there could be several thousands in difference, because unless the guy was selling the VW695 way below dealer cost, there should not have been that much difference.

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post #9 of 61 Old 11-10-2019, 03:09 PM
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Okay, now it makes sense. A lightly used VW695 vs a new RS2000/NX7. Though I do not see how there could be several thousands in difference, because unless the guy was selling the VW695 way below dealer cost, there should not have been that much difference.
Yeah, he upgraded to a 30,000 dollar projector and just wanted to get rid of it, so it was a price I felt was too good to pass on.
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post #10 of 61 Old 11-11-2019, 09:47 AM
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Yeah, he upgraded to a 30,000 dollar projector and just wanted to get rid of it, so it was a price I felt was too good to pass on.
Sounds like you lucked into a pretty nice deal.
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post #11 of 61 Old 11-11-2019, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all for the input. I am going with the JVC DLA-NX5, the picture quality and price (from a dealer) was too good to pass! Many thanks to the user SirMaster, m0j0 and markmon1 and other AVS Forum and Reddit members!

Edit: Does anyone have a recommended screen for the JVC DLA-NX5? I'm living in an apartment and have heard good things from Silver Ticket.
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post #12 of 61 Old 11-11-2019, 05:57 PM
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Thanks all for the input. I am going with the JVC DLA-NX5, the picture quality and price (from a dealer) was too good to pass! Many thanks to the user SirMaster, m0j0 and markmon1 and other AVS Forum and Reddit members!

Edit: Does anyone have a recommended screen for the JVC DLA-NX5? I'm living in an apartment and have heard good things from Silver Ticket.
Silver Ticket is great if you are on a budget. If you can spend a bit more, look into the Stewart Cima Neve.
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post #13 of 61 Old 11-11-2019, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Silver Ticket is great if you are on a budget. If you can spend a bit more, look into the Stewart Cima Neve.
I have been hearing that a lot and have been looking into both.

For the Silver Ticket, "STR-169120 Silver Ticket 120" Diagonal 16:9 4K Ultra HD Ready HDTV (6 Piece Fixed Frame) Projector Screen White Material", is the white material the preferred style to get the most gain? The descriptions say 1.1 gain. Would this be the best setup for someone with white walls as well?

I'll do some more looking for Stewart Cima Neve but they seem out of my price range (they are in the $1k range?) for an apartment screen that might be sold/disposed if I move.
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post #14 of 61 Old 11-12-2019, 05:19 AM
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I have been hearing that a lot and have been looking into both.

For the Silver Ticket, "STR-169120 Silver Ticket 120" Diagonal 16:9 4K Ultra HD Ready HDTV (6 Piece Fixed Frame) Projector Screen White Material", is the white material the preferred style to get the most gain? The descriptions say 1.1 gain. Would this be the best setup for someone with white walls as well?

I'll do some more looking for Stewart Cima Neve but they seem out of my price range (they are in the $1k range?) for an apartment screen that might be sold/disposed if I move.

On the Silver Ticket, yes, the white 1.1 gain screen would be a good option as it will give you the most realistic colors and better brightness compared to other materials. As for the Cima, all I can say is it's easily worth three times the amount of money it costs. It's that good.
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post #15 of 61 Old 11-12-2019, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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On the Silver Ticket, yes, the white 1.1 gain screen would be a good option as it will give you the most realistic colors and better brightness compared to other materials. As for the Cima, all I can say is it's easily worth three times the amount of money it costs. It's that good.
Did you have any experience with the Silver Material for Sliver Ticket? Would it just be too bright if I chose that material?
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post #16 of 61 Old 11-12-2019, 07:13 AM
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Did you have any experience with the Silver Material for Sliver Ticket? Would it just be too bright if I chose that material?

No, I don't have experience with that. However, the 1.1 is pretty bright for the most part and I didn't want anything that might introduce sparkle/shimmer, so I don't usually go for high gain. However, others might have a different experience or opinion, so keep doing your research.
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post #17 of 61 Old 11-12-2019, 01:32 PM
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Since you have white walls I'd recommend trying to get an ALR screen, that way you'll get less reflections from the ceiling / side walls and more contrast on the picture.

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Does anyone know if the JVC-DLA-NX5 can get green or red dust blobs on the screen? This was a problem with my previous Epson 8350 as I learned that the LCD cooling was air cooled through a filter and the seal for the LCD was not completely sealed.
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post #19 of 61 Old 11-14-2019, 01:03 PM
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Does anyone know if the JVC-DLA-NX5 can get green or red dust blobs on the screen? This was a problem with my previous Epson 8350 as I learned that the LCD cooling was air cooled through a filter and the seal for the LCD was not completely sealed.
It's a little early to answer that question, but based on previous JVC models, I don't think that's a problem.
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I attended a demo where the JVC NX 7, Sony 295ES, and Epson 6050UB were shown side by side. I much preferred the image qualify from the 6050UB vs. the 295ES. The 6050's image seemed every bit as sharp as the 295ES along with a much brighter, more vivid image. Also the 295ES's black levels were not discernably deeper than the 6050 with it's iris disabled.
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post #21 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 07:13 AM
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I attended a demo where the JVC NX 7, Sony 295ES, and Epson 6050UB were shown side by side. I much preferred the image qualify from the 6050UB vs. the 295ES. The 6050's image seemed every bit as sharp as the 295ES along with a much brighter, more vivid image. Also the 295ES's black levels were not discernably deeper than the 6050 with it's iris disabled.
With iris disabled and in particular, with the 6050 throwing a brighter image, you definitely should have been able to see a difference in black levels between the 295 and the 6050. If you did not, then either something was wrong with the setup, the projector (295), or the room was not a very good room. With 6050 iris off and brightness matched, the 295 has about double the contrast, which is a noticeable difference. And with the 6050 throwing a brighter image, raising its black floor, the difference would have been even larger.
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post #22 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 09:16 AM
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With iris disabled and in particular, with the 6050 throwing a brighter image, you definitely should have been able to see a difference in black levels between the 295 and the 6050. If you did not, then either something was wrong with the setup, the projector (295), or the room was not a very good room. With 6050 iris off and brightness matched, the 295 has about double the contrast, which is a noticeable difference. And with the 6050 throwing a brighter image, raising its black floor, the difference would have been even larger.
I have to agree with @ALRLIFE because my room is a fully treated light controlled room and a mate brought his 360es round to see how much better it would look in such a room, both of us were surprised that the Epson not only looked better with 1080P stuff but was as crisp when feed 4K and the blacks were not better either. His comment was if he knew then what he knows now he would have pocketed the difference and bought the Epson.

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post #23 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 10:01 AM
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I have to agree with @ALRLIFE because my room is a fully treated light controlled room and a mate brought his 360es round to see how much better it would look in such a room, both of us were surprised that the Epson not only looked better with 1080P stuff but was as crisp when feed 4K and the blacks were not better either. His comment was if he knew then what he knows now he would have pocketed the difference and bought the Epson.
The 360 could very easily had contrast degradation. Math is math. The 6050/5050 has around 6,000:1 native. The 295 has around 12,000:1 native. That is double the difference and is noticeable. I am not saying that what you saw is wrong. just saying if set up correctly in a good room with two projectors that meet spec, you will be able to see a difference. If you run the 6050/5050 brighter, then you are raising the black floor, so the black floor difference will be even bigger.
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post #24 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 10:37 AM
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Same observation on the Epson 6050ub here as well compared to the N5. The blacks on the N5 did not blow the Epson away. There was a difference but not enough to overcome the dim image in ambient lit room. The Epson had amazing blacks and the advantage of a much brighter image. However, the N5 was calibrated and the Epson was not, it was new and had less than 250 hours on the bulb they were waiting for the bulb to get to 250 hours and then were doing a calibration so this was out of the box blacks. Things may change in perception when the Epson gets calibrated and the brightness comes down with bulb useage and calibration. When we selected the P3 color mode, I think Cinema mode, on the Epson, JVC was about the same brightness. Too bad JVC doesn't have an equal setting with Epson for a high Lumen (3000 would be a nice minimum rec 709 setting). Then the JVC could get the ambient room crowd and the cave room crowd.

The JVCs gotta do something about their lack of lumens. I feel like we are on the cusp of a breakthrough in much higher lumens while not sacrificing black levels. Who and when is the question.
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post #25 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I already went with the JVC NX5 over both the Sony VW295ES and Epson 5050UB. I did see the Epson was on sale from Amazon but I got a great deal with the JVC price wise from a dealer. So far I have the projector and Silver Ticket screen setup yesterday. So far I did not see a huge amount of improvement over my base Epson 8350 but I need to run/play more HDR 4k content.
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post #26 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TimHuey View Post
Same observation on the Epson 6050ub here as well compared to the N5. The blacks on the N5 did not blow the Epson away. There was a difference but not enough to overcome the dim image in ambient lit room. The Epson had amazing blacks and the advantage of a much brighter image. However, the N5 was calibrated and the Epson was not, it was new and had less than 250 hours on the bulb they were waiting for the bulb to get to 250 hours and then were doing a calibration so this was out of the box blacks. Things may change in perception when the Epson gets calibrated and the brightness comes down with bulb useage and calibration. When we selected the P3 color mode, I think Cinema mode, on the Epson, JVC was about the same brightness. Too bad JVC doesn't have an equal setting with Epson for a high Lumen (3000 would be a nice minimum rec 709 setting). Then the JVC could get the ambient room crowd and the cave room crowd.

The JVCs gotta do something about their lack of lumens. I feel like we are on the cusp of a breakthrough in much higher lumens while not sacrificing black levels. Who and when is the question.
The Epson is not really brighter or much brighter than JVC.

Uncalibrated the Epson 5050 is about 1900-2000 lumens in natural or bright cinema.

Uncalibrated the JVC is about 1600-1700 lumens in all modes.

Calibrated they are within about 100 lumens of each other. The Epson drops down quite a bit as bright cinema and natural are a lot less accurate out of the box than the standard JVC modes.

Were you watching HDR or SDR? If HDR was the JVC using the 3.10 firmware frame-by-frame dynamic tone-mapping?

If it was SDR are you sure the JVC wasn't calibrated to 14 foot-lamberts as a typical SDR calibration would be? If so then they would have closed the iris down manually to bring the brightness down to the 14 fL.

I am using the JVC on a 140" 1.1 gain white screen and I use low bulb because even that is more than bright enough. Going to high bulb just raises the black floor more than is necessary and unless you have a really large screen, lots of people wont even need high bulb, or they can use it after their bulb dims a lot.

With the P3 filter, the Epson actually drops down to about 1000-1100 lumens. The NX5 doesn't have a filter, but achieves around 90% P3 natively. The NX7 has a filter though and engaging that drops the brightness down to around 1400 and is much brighter than the Epson, with 100% P3 coverage.
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post #27 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The 360 could very easily had contrast degradation. Math is math. The 6050/5050 has around 6,000:1 native. The 295 has around 12,000:1 native. That is double the difference and is noticeable. I am not saying that what you saw is wrong. just saying if set up correctly in a good room with two projectors that meet spec, you will be able to see a difference. If you run the 6050/5050 brighter, then you are raising the black floor, so the black floor difference will be even bigger.
I can’t argue with what the spec sheet says because the 360es wasn’t that old, my Epson had been calibrated and I don’t use the dynamic iris as that’s how he left it. We used an HDMI splitter so we could jump between projector and there reality wasn’t the difference that would jump out at you, the whole objective on my part was to see if 4K over e-shift was noticeable from my 10ft viewing distance to the 100” screen and everyone who was present at this experiment couldn’t see the difference despite the Sony having double the pixels. I’m sure if we have run stuff like test patterns there might have been a better chance to see it but with movie content no one seen it.

Funny I recent got the chance to see a x5900 in a bat cave, unfortunately it was in isolation without another projector to compare against but with the content we watched on returning home I played the same through mine and whilst the JVC’s blacks were better it wasn’t night and day better. It has left me much happier with my purchase, this is not to say the x5900 wasn’t better overall because I think it was but just the improvement wasn’t huge and not the £1.5k price difference we have here in the UK, I’m sure if we had watched HDR the gap would between the two would have reduced further.

Please don’t shoot the messenger, I’m only telling it as I seen it.... maybe it would have been different if both were side by side but this is the thing in isolation the differences aren’t there to be seen and all you see in a bloody brilliant picture regardless of the pj you are watching with.

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post #28 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I can’t argue with what the spec sheet says because the 360es wasn’t that old, my Epson had been calibrated and I don’t use the dynamic iris as that’s how he left it. We used an HDMI splitter so we could jump between projector and there reality wasn’t the difference that would jump out at you, the whole objective on my part was to see if 4K over e-shift was noticeable from my 10ft viewing distance to the 100” screen and everyone who was present at this experiment couldn’t see the difference despite the Sony having double the pixels. I’m sure if we have run stuff like test patterns there might have been a better chance to see it but with movie content no one seen it.

Funny I recent got the chance to see a x5900 in a bat cave, unfortunately it was in isolation without another projector to compare against but with the content we watched on returning home I played the same through mine and whilst the JVC’s blacks were better it wasn’t night and day better. It has left me much happier with my purchase, this is not to say the x5900 wasn’t better overall because I think it was but just the improvement wasn’t huge and not the £1.5k price difference we have here in the UK, I’m sure if we had watched HDR the gap would between the two would have reduced further.

Please don’t shoot the messenger, I’m only telling it as I seen it.... maybe it would have been different if both were side by side but this is the thing in isolation the differences aren’t there to be seen and all you see in a bloody brilliant picture regardless of the pj you are watching with.
I am not going by the spec sheet. I am using actual measured numbers for the projectors. Also, I was talking about contrast, not resolution. For resolution on a 100" screen, you need to be viewing from 6.5', not 10', to get full benefit of 4K resolution. If you are not comparing side by side it is hard to tell the difference. If you could tell a difference when not side by side, then the difference would be huge. In isolation, even 480P can look good.
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post #29 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I am not going by the spec sheet. I am using actual measured numbers for the projectors. Also, I was talking about contrast, not resolution. For resolution on a 100" screen, you need to be viewing from 6.5', not 10', to get full benefit of 4K resolution. If you are not comparing side by side it is hard to tell the difference. If you could tell a difference when not side by side, then the difference would be huge. In isolation, even 480P can look good.
It was contrast when I was discussing the JVC not resolution. And I was both with I did the side by side with the Sony.

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post #30 of 61 Old 11-18-2019, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
The Epson is not really brighter or much brighter than JVC.

Uncalibrated the Epson 5050 is about 1900-2000 lumens in natural or bright cinema.

Uncalibrated the JVC is about 1600-1700 lumens in all modes.

Calibrated they are within about 100 lumens of each other. The Epson drops down quite a bit as bright cinema and natural are a lot less accurate out of the box than the standard JVC modes.

Were you watching HDR or SDR? If HDR was the JVC using the 3.10 firmware frame-by-frame dynamic tone-mapping?

If it was SDR are you sure the JVC wasn't calibrated to 14 foot-lamberts as a typical SDR calibration would be? If so then they would have closed the iris down manually to bring the brightness down to the 14 fL.

I am using the JVC on a 140" 1.1 gain white screen and I use low bulb because even that is more than bright enough. Going to high bulb just raises the black floor more than is necessary and unless you have a really large screen, lots of people wont even need high bulb, or they can use it after their bulb dims a lot.

With the P3 filter, the Epson actually drops down to about 1000-1100 lumens. The NX5 doesn't have a filter, but achieves around 90% P3 natively. The NX7 has a filter though and engaging that drops the brightness down to around 1400 and is much brighter than the Epson, with 100% P3 coverage.
The JVC lamps are more stable (slower light loss and more stable calibration) as well. This often gets overlooked.
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