AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/)
-   Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/)
-   -   JVC RS540 vs Epson 5050UB (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/3101778-jvc-rs540-vs-epson-5050ub.html)

filmgeek47 11-12-2019 12:23 AM

JVC RS540 vs Epson 5050UB
 
Hey guys,

Found a good deal which puts the JVC only $300 higher than the Epson. Not finding a lot of reviews of the JVC and don’t have anywhere to demo it, whereas I’ve seen the Epson and walked away impressed. I’m currently using a Sony Hw40ES on a 120” screen in a fully light controlled space.

Thoughts?

My greatest worries are:

A- the Epson won’t offer a noticeable contrast/black level/ color improvement over what I have now on the Blu-ray’s that make up the bulk of my collection.

B- the JVC is a few years old and might suffer from early teething issues with 4K HDR like poor dynamic range compensation. I’ve also heard some issues of oddly long HDMI handshake which could be annoying?

Is one obviously better than the other? I know I’m picking between an older heavyweight and a state of the art middle weight, and honestly not sure which way to go. I also like that the Epson would be brand new, whereas the JVC is B stock which would only include a 1 yr warranty, and no returns save for defects.

Krbass 11-12-2019 01:08 AM

I got to do a side by side at a close friends place. The RS540 won hands down, that's not to say the Epson wasn't fantastic. The RS540s contrast was the real wow factor and I thought the jvc did a better job with pixel shifting.

If I had not gotten the deal I got on my Rs540(X790) I would have been getting the 5050.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

filmgeek47 11-12-2019 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krbass (Post 58808006)
I got to do a side by side at a close friends place. The RS540 won hands down, that's not to say the Epson wasn't fantastic. The RS540s contrast was the real wow factor and I thought the jvc did a better job with pixel shifting.

If I had not gotten the deal I got on my Rs540(X790) I would have been getting the 5050.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

Thanks! Can you comment on the rs540’s tone mapping? I’m using a Vero 4K to stream from my local server, so I can’t necsssarily rely on buying a fancy Bluray player to compensate if the projector’s HDR processing isn’t up to snuff.

filmgeek47 11-12-2019 07:48 AM

Also, any thoughts on using this for gaming? I’m not a hardcore FPS freak or anything, but I need to be able to play some halo on occasion...

samovies10 11-12-2019 01:37 PM

I would look into trying to use madVR for PC if you're streaming from a server. It's a great tone mapper and you'll certainly benefit from it if you're using an 'older' projector. I'm not sure if it's possible to add it to the Vero or to the server, but even if it's not it might be worth getting a cheaper desktop to add madVR and let it tone map according to the projector's capabilities.

ScottAvery 11-13-2019 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmgeek47 (Post 58808902)
Thanks! Can you comment on the rs540’s tone mapping? I’m using a Vero 4K to stream from my local server, so I can’t necsssarily rely on buying a fancy Bluray player to compensate if the projector’s HDR processing isn’t up to snuff.

There is no built-in dynamic tone mapping feature in the rs540, that was added in the next generation. What you can do is load multiple gamma curves and choose the one appropriate for your content. pairing with an external tone mapper like the Panasonic UHD player or an HTPC could fulfill your need. I am satisfied with being able to tune the gamma curve.

filmgeek47 11-13-2019 09:44 AM

Thanks. That’s exactly what I was curious about. So can you save preset curves and swap between them in the menu? Just don’t want to spend ten minutes tweaking all my picture settings every time I throw on an HDR movie.

My streamer box (vero 4k +) is supposedly adding tone mapping in the future, and in the mean time most of my library is Blu-ray.

ScottAvery 11-13-2019 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmgeek47 (Post 58815186)
Thanks. That’s exactly what I was curious about. So can you save preset curves and swap between them in the menu? Just don’t want to spend ten minutes tweaking all my picture settings every time I throw on an HDR movie.

My streamer box (vero 4k +) is supposedly adding tone mapping in the future, and in the mean time most of my library is Blu-ray.

Since there are 3 hard buttons on the remote for presets, you don't even need to open a menu to change your gamma selection. The out of the box performance for SDR bluray on the RS540 is spectacular. HDR takes significant tuning, but that is pretty much the case for every platform. The very, very low black levels of the DILA-based JVC will blow you away. Fades to black will make your heart stop because you'll think something broke!

The Epson has many newer features, but the underlying LCD technology is still inferior.

willieconway 11-13-2019 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmgeek47 (Post 58815186)
Thanks. That’s exactly what I was curious about. So can you save preset curves and swap between them in the menu? Just don’t want to spend ten minutes tweaking all my picture settings every time I throw on an HDR movie.

My streamer box (vero 4k +) is supposedly adding tone mapping in the future, and in the mean time most of my library is Blu-ray.

I have saved two Arve curves, 1200 nits and 4000 nits, and select one depending on what mastering info is available. If nothing is available I usually just go with the 1200 nits curve. I don't touch anything else and have never thought that HDR content looked anything less than great. Very much set it and forget it for me.

coxy2416 11-13-2019 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottAvery (Post 58815278)
Quote:

Originally Posted by filmgeek47 (Post 58815186)
Thanks. That’️s exactly what I was curious about. So can you save preset curves and swap between them in the menu? Just don’️t want to spend ten minutes tweaking all my picture settings every time I throw on an HDR movie.

My streamer box (vero 4k +) is supposedly adding tone mapping in the future, and in the mean time most of my library is Blu-ray.

Since there are 3 hard buttons on the remote for presets, you don't even need to open a menu to change your gamma selection. The out of the box performance for SDR bluray on the RS540 is spectacular. HDR takes significant tuning, but that is pretty much the case for every platform. The very, very low black levels of the DILA-based JVC will blow you away. Fades to black will make your heart stop because you'll think something broke!

The Epson has many newer features, but the underlying LCD technology is still inferior.

My vote is on the JVC as it should be a huge step up from the Epson.

SDR is fantastic out of the box as was stated earlier and HDR can be really good when you take the time to load Arve curves. I believe Javs has a step by step instruction on this but many here on the forum can give you a hand with that.

I took it one step further and just recently went the MadVR route. Hands down the best my HDR has looked with the dynamic tone mapping. Once you see it you won’t want to go back!

filmgeek47 11-13-2019 01:09 PM

Thanks so much guys! I just gotta raise a little extra cash, but I’m definitely gonna try and pickup the JVC. Crossing my fingers the deal’s still there in a few days 🙂

dgkula 11-13-2019 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willieconway (Post 58815382)
I have saved two Arve curves, 1200 nits and 4000 nits, and select one depending on what mastering info is available. If nothing is available I usually just go with the 1200 nits curve. I don't touch anything else and have never thought that HDR content looked anything less than great. Very much set it and forget it for me.

I had been running a JVC RS620 with an HDFury Integral 2 with the JVC macro and the RS232 cable. I uploaded 3 custom curves and the integral would look at the HDR metadata and send commands to the JVC via RS232 to switch automatically to the right custom curve. It was a great setup for static tone mapping.

I just upgraded to the Lumagen so now have dynamic tone mapping. Wow. But another $4k. I would gladly sell you the Integral and help you set it up if you go the RS540 route and want to automate the curve switching.

willieconway 11-13-2019 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgkula (Post 58817564)
I had been running a JVC RS620 with an HDFury Integral 2 with the JVC macro and the RS232 cable. I uploaded 3 custom curves and the integral would look at the HDR metadata and send commands to the JVC via RS232 to switch automatically to the right custom curve. It was a great setup for static tone mapping.

I just upgraded to the Lumagen so now have dynamic tone mapping. Wow. But another $4k. I would gladly sell you the Integral and help you set it up if you go the RS540 route and want to automate the curve switching.

Appreciate it but I don't care enough about HDR to add devices or spend additional money.

filmgeek47 11-15-2019 10:20 PM

Guys, thanks for all your help! Went ahead and ordered the Rs540U. Shoutout to Mike Garrett at AvScience for the great deal and fantastic service!

Krbass 11-18-2019 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALRLIFE (Post 58836548)
How did they compare in terms of brightness? I was interested in the JVC X790 but I heard it's lumens are much lower than a Epson 5050 in natural mode.

I think the Epsons brightest modes are brighter but these were in an almost fully blacked out room and both were in low lamp mode. The Epson by no means shoots a bad image, it's very nice. For a light controlled room the JVC crushed the Epson in black levels which to my eyes made the picture look much more punchy and sharper.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

SirMaster 11-18-2019 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALRLIFE (Post 58836548)
How did they compare in terms of brightness? I was interested in the JVC X790 but I heard it's lumens are much lower than a Epson 5050 in natural mode.

It's dimmer, but not by much

Epson 5050UB in natural or bright cinema will do close to around 2000 lumens at wide zoom. The JVC X790R will be around 1700 even in the most accurate and calibrated modes. If you calibrate both I bet they are within 100-200 lumens max difference.

Mike Garrett 11-18-2019 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMaster (Post 58837432)
It's dimmer, but not by much

Epson 5050UB in natural or bright cinema will do close to around 2000 lumens at wide zoom. The JVC X790R will be around 1700 even in the most accurate and calibrated modes. If you calibrate both I bet they are within 100-200 lumens max difference.

Yes, if you calibrate both to a de of less than 3, the two are nearly the same. Uncalibrated the Epson is brighter, but calibrated with DCI P3 filter in place, the RS540/X790 is brighter for HDR.

SirMaster 11-18-2019 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Garrett (Post 58837850)
Yes, if you calibrate both to a de of less than 3, the two are nearly the same. Uncalibrated the Epson is brighter, but calibrated with DCI P3 filter in place, the RS540/X790 is brighter for HDR.

Well if you use the P3 filter on the Epson yeah, that cuts the brightness down to about half heh. On the JVC it's not nearly that much of a cut. The JVC would definitely be brighter with the filter on.

Luminated67 11-19-2019 05:40 AM

The very natural of how a projector produces blacks determines that for the very best of the breed out perform the rest requires the room to be devoid of any light including reflective. So with that in mind if you room isn’t ideal this contrast advantage will be compromised, how much depends of how bad the room is, then surely other factors of a projectors performance will come to the forefront as being more important.

I think ultimately the goal is to have the perfect room conditions regardless of projector but when for whatever reason this isn’t possible should anyone really pick the likes of a JVC (the contrast king) over the likes of a Sony or even an Epson?

Mike Garrett 11-19-2019 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminated67 (Post 58842380)
The very natural of how a projector produces blacks determines that for the very best of the breed out perform the rest requires the room to be devoid of any light including reflective. So with that in mind if you room isn’t ideal this contrast advantage will be compromised, how much depends of how bad the room is, then surely other factors of a projectors performance will come to the forefront as being more important.

I think ultimately the goal is to have the perfect room conditions regardless of projector but when for whatever reason this isn’t possible should anyone really pick the likes of a JVC (the contrast king) over the likes of a Sony or even an Epson?

A higher contrast projector will always have higher contrast in any room, if all other factors are equal. But I agree that if the room is crap, it is less important.

SirMaster 11-19-2019 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminated67 (Post 58842380)
The very natural of how a projector produces blacks determines that for the very best of the breed out perform the rest requires the room to be devoid of any light including reflective. So with that in mind if you room isn’t ideal this contrast advantage will be compromised, how much depends of how bad the room is, then surely other factors of a projectors performance will come to the forefront as being more important.

I think ultimately the goal is to have the perfect room conditions regardless of projector but when for whatever reason this isn’t possible should anyone really pick the likes of a JVC (the contrast king) over the likes of a Sony or even an Epson?

In my experience, the big contrast advantage on something like a Sony and even more so a JVC is in the under 5% or especially under 2% APL scenes.

There is such little light in these scenes that there really isn't much to even reflect off walls and ceiling in the first place.

Blacking out your reflections is important, don't get me wrong, but in my experience, it's not any more important for a high contrast projector than it is for a low contrast projector. So I wouldn't tell someone that a high contrast projector will go to waste in a room with white walls and ceiling.

Not to be confused though with ambient light in the room which IS more important to eliminate for using high contrast projectors than low contrast projectors. I would tell someone that a high contrast projector is wasted if they are going to have ambient light in the room from anther source other than the projector.

SirMaster 11-19-2019 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALRLIFE (Post 58841882)
Is that with the JVC X790R on high lamp mode? I typically use my Epson 6050 on medium or eco mode and it gives a good amount of brightness. With my JVC RS420, it was rather dim on low lamp mode. And after 700 hours on the first bulb, it was not that bright even on high lamp mode.

That is my fear if I get the X790R that it's low lamp output is closer to 1100 lumens with a new bulb.

Epson Natural mode:
High Bulb: 1979
Medium: 1542
Low: 1435

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...,-Measurements


JVC RS440 Cinema/Natural/HDR: (they don't have the RS540 but it should be similar)

High Bulb: 1676
Low: 1162

But in my experience the JVC loses less than 100 lumens for calibration since it's stock modes are very close. The Epson loses somewhere around 200-300 lumens depending on the lamp mode when calibrating Natural as it's not as accurate out of the box.

FWIW my NX5 actually got slightly brighter (about 50 lumens) after running autocal, and the white balance, color temp, and gamma measurements all under 1dE so it's definitely pretty calibrated.

So after calibration, the JVC is around 1600 and 1100 lumens, and the Epson is around 1700, 1300, 1200 or so after calibration. So yes it's on average brighter, but not by much. I am not sure why your bulb dimmed so much in only 700 hours. The bulb on my NX5 which is the me bulb as your JVC is at 208 hours and has not dimmed at all so far. You can also get great bulbs from a respected member on this forum for JVC for only $135 which is really nice.

Anyways that my 2 cents.

Dilema 11-30-2019 05:27 AM

Let us know your findings. I had a chance to experience both and finally for 150 inch screen Epson worked much better for me. The only advantage of JVC were really dark scenes where blacks were blacker however with less shadow details than on Epson.

damelon 11-30-2019 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALRLIFE (Post 58893028)
Curiosity got the best of me, so I sold my Epson 6050UB and placed an order for the JVC RS-540 today. I hope it will be a discernible upgrade. If not, I really don't have any other options. I refuse to pay $5,000 for the NX5 with native contrast similar to my RS 420.

I picked up a used RS540 last fall when the new generation game out. The picture quality is incredible and contrast is amazing. I have a 130" wide screen, and it can get dim on dark scenes viewing HDR content, but dark scenes are an issue on any projector. (HDR is very lumen hungry) You really can't beat it for the price.... and there isn't much you can do to improve it unless you want to spend a lot more either. As people have said, they don't come with any built in tone mapping, but I play most content through my HTPC, and use MadVR for that. You can always use something like an Nvidia shield if you want as well.

Dilema 12-07-2019 12:46 AM

If you want brightness then Epson is much brighter than this JVC. I was comparing these side by side so this is correct info I am giving not a theoretical study. Moreover colors on Epson were more vivid thanks to that. Blacks some better on JVC but the difference was not huge.

Merlin GS 12-07-2019 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilema (Post 58926074)
If you want brightness then Epson is much brighter than this JVC. I was comparing these side by side so this is correct info I am giving not a theoretical study. Moreover colors on Epson were more vivid thanks to that. Blacks some better on JVC but the difference was not huge.

You may be right about the brightness, but did both projector bulbs have the same amount of usage? Were both projectors properly calibrated? Vividness of the colors very often pertains to calibration. Morever, if both projectors are properly calibrated, and the eyes have been given an opportunity to adjust to the light, the colors should be fairly similar (unless one of the projectors does not calibrate well, or technology comes into play).

Mike Garrett 12-07-2019 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilema (Post 58926074)
If you want brightness then Epson is much brighter than this JVC. I was comparing these side by side so this is correct info I am giving not a theoretical study. Moreover colors on Epson were more vivid thanks to that. Blacks some better on JVC but the difference was not huge.

More vivid, just means the color was off more on the Epson. Both the Epson and the JVC calibrates to 100% Rec709. So when calibrated, color would look the same. Yes the Epson is much brighter if using dynamic mode, but color is so far off in that mode that pretty much no one uses it. Calibrated the Epson is only slightly brighter than the JVC. But if you want to use the DCI p3 color filter with your HDR sources, then the JVC is brighter than the Epson. Contrast is better with the JVC and the JVC in high lamp is quieter than the Epson in high lamp. Harder to find an RS540 these days, not many left available.

Krbass 12-07-2019 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Garrett (Post 58928106)
More vivid, just means the color was off more on the Epson. Both the Epson and the JVC calibrates to 100% Rec709. So when calibrated, color would look the same. Yes the Epson is much brighter if using dynamic mode, but color is so far off in that mode that pretty much no one uses it. Calibrated the Epson is only slightly brighter than the JVC. But if you want to use the DCI p3 color filter with your HDR sources, then the JVC is brighter than the Epson. Contrast is better with the JVC and the JVC in high lamp is quieter than the Epson in high lamp. Harder to find an RS540 these days, not many left available.

I was going to say pretty much this. My eyes after a couple hours comparing the X790 and 5050ub had the JVC win in every category. Again this is not to say that the Epson is a slouch, it's a very good projector but if you can get a good deal on an x790(rs540) and have a bat cave you will be very pleased with what JVC offers over the rest of the competition.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

SirMaster 12-07-2019 01:56 PM

The epson will be somewhat brighter than the JVC. But unless you are using a screen larger than like 150” or using a projector in a room that you need to combat ambient light then I would get the JVC as it will be better in every other way and is plenty of brightness for a dark dedicated room.

Dilema 12-07-2019 02:52 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Garrett (Post 58928106)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilema (Post 58926074)
If you want brightness then Epson is much brighter than this JVC. I was comparing these side by side so this is correct info I am giving not a theoretical study. Moreover colors on Epson were more vivid thanks to that. Blacks some better on JVC but the difference was not huge.

More vivid, just means the color was off more on the Epson. Both the Epson and the JVC calibrates to 100% Rec709. So when calibrated, color would look the same. Yes the Epson is much brighter if using dynamic mode, but color is so far off in that mode that pretty much no one uses it. Calibrated the Epson is only slightly brighter than the JVC. But if you want to use the DCI p3 color filter with your HDR sources, then the JVC is brighter than the Epson. Contrast is better with the JVC and the JVC in high lamp is quieter than the Epson in high lamp. Harder to find an RS540 these days, not many left available.

I don’t agree with you. I had these projectors for examination for long enough to compare.

Epson is a lot brighter not in just dynamic mode which I never used. It is much much brighter in natural which I have calibrated for hdr. The pallets coverage is circa 90% of BT in that mode and is really good enough for great hdr highlights. For me picture from Epson was more 3 dimensional.

When it comes to epson in digital cinema mode with filter I didnt like it at all. It definitely takes too much light away what is comparable to JVC.

Therefore when it is actually much brighter colors look much more pleasant are richer more beautiful. In HDR especially and these reds and greens are stunning.

I agree JVC is great for small/ medium screens but please do not recommend it over for big screens since Epson gives much more joy in my experience.

Both projectors were new same lamp usage. And JVC is not much quieter actually in my setup ( big dedicates media room with decent sound system) JVC is moderate loud in high lamp while Epson is louder but once movie starts Epson fan goes slower after a minute what make noise much more closer to JVC. Surprisingly none of the experts here mention that 😉.

I believe a lot of people didn’t spend enough time actually watching movies with one or other of these projectors and are quite radical in assessments. I really don't know how someone can tell JVC is much better hands down. I experienced these myself watching movies and chosen Epson cause it gave me much more pleasant and joy picture on my really big screen.

I did circa 500 hours and know this machine quite well. I am in projectors last 16 years thus maybe not an expert but neither a rookie 😉

I am waiting for JVC with Epson brightness for reasonable price. Currently only RS3000 meets my perfect picture expectations (which I know quite well as well) but price is too high.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:18 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.