4K - Dream or Nightmare ??? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
  • 1 Post By m0j0
  • 1 Post By m0j0
  • 1 Post By Craig Peer
  • 1 Post By entropy02
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Question 4K - Dream or Nightmare ???

I've been enjoying HD streaming (Uncompressed BluRay rips) from my NAS's to my Oppo 105 for a few years now - for the last couple of years to my JVC X7500 PJ with consistently great, occasionally spectacular, rock solid results. Recently I thought it was time to upgrade to 4K. Consequently, Having ripped a few 4K bluray titles, I aquired, an M9702 (Oppo 203 Clone) and pressed it into service.
It played the 4k files fine and initially I actually thought the picture was improved, but it soon became apparent that even though my X7500 was stating that it was receiving a 4k signal the observed picture did not actually reflect this. Doing a series of objective comparisons of 1080p HD rips vs 4k rips showed no observable difference - I'd have thought the 4k would be clearly better - but no, the diffence between movies I was seeing was down purely to the movies themselves (e.g. Life of Pi looks amazing in 1080p). So WTF is going on??
Time for some serious troubleshooting....
To give you a wider picture of my system - the output from my M9702 goes to a 4k UHD compatible 4x2 HDMI switch and then to my PJ.
I bypassed this switch, taking the video signal direct to my PJ. The result of this? - NO picture AT ALL!!
Next step was to substitute my 10yr old 7.5m certified 1.3b cable for a "High Speed" HDMI cable. This cable gave a picture, but was VERY flakey - 2s picture 2s no picture PJ going HI/Lo every 2s etc.
Next step - reinstate the 4x2 switch (using the same High speed cable) - result - stability restored, but the picture still indistinguishaable from 1080p - just like my existing 1.3b cable. (PJ still stating it was receiving a 4k signal)

(In case you are wondering, the audio is taken from the "audio only" output on the Oppo to an Anthem processor and so dealt with separately.)


I invite your advice as to how I might restore the solidity I had with "bog standard" HD with my new UHD streaming system, but, and most importantly, how I might actually release the benefit of my 4k rips. Yes - I know the JVC X7500 is "faux" 4k, but surely there has to be a discernable PQ improvement with a 4k rip? Might it be that HDMI switches are not what they purport to be? -Mine has 4k printed on it - but that may not mean sh*t ??
Enough already - over to you guys !!!


PS The "Nightmare" part of the title refers to the fact that even though the audio feeds to my Anthem processor from the separate "audio only" HDMI port, I get occassional annoying audio dropouts which come at no particular time - I can have 2hrs without trouble and then 5 mins of dropouts and then they go away again - for hours - bizarre !!

Last edited by Loftboy; 11-28-2019 at 02:27 PM.
Loftboy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 02:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,851
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 750 Post(s)
Liked: 816
Getting a good 4k image on a projector is not exactly easy. You need something that will properly tone map the image, like the Panasonic UB820, or an HTPC with MadVR, etc.
Archibald1 likes this.
m0j0 is offline  
post #3 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
Getting a good 4k image on a projector is not exactly easy. You need something that will properly tone map the image, like the Panasonic UB820, or an HTPC with MadVR, etc.
So what you are saying is that the Oppo 203, a high end 4k player, is not fit for my purpose ??

Last edited by Loftboy; 11-28-2019 at 02:36 PM.
Loftboy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 02:47 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,700
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7212 Post(s)
Liked: 8624
You might need a better HDMI cable and lose the HDMI switch. It needs to be " Certified " like a RUIPRO Fiber Optic HDMI Cable or Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable.
Craig Peer is offline  
post #5 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
You might need a better HDMI cable and lose the HDMI switch. It needs to be " Certified " like a RUIPRO Fiber Optic HDMI Cable or Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable.
This HDMI cable business is proving to be a real nightmare. The cable I used for troubleshooting today was certified "high speed". Using this (6m) cable direct to my PJ did not give a stable picture. I've read that spending more is no guarantee of better performance but I'm beginning to doubt this advice?
Loftboy is offline  
post #6 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 03:02 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,700
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7212 Post(s)
Liked: 8624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loftboy View Post
This HDMI cable business is proving to be a real nightmare. The cable I used for troubleshooting today was certified "high speed". Using this (6m) cable direct to my PJ did not give a stable picture. I've read that spending more is no guarantee of better performance but I'm beginning to doubt this advice?
Buy from a place like Amazon or Best Buy ( or similar ) where you can easily return it. Monoprice can work, as can those Ruipro cables.
Craig Peer is offline  
post #7 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 03:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,851
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 750 Post(s)
Liked: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loftboy View Post
So what you are saying is that the Oppo 203, a high end 4k player, is not fit for my purpose ??
Not saying that, but if it was meeting your expectations we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Archibald1 likes this.
m0j0 is offline  
post #8 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Buy from a place like Amazon or Best Buy ( or similar ) where you can easily return it. Monoprice can work, as can those Ruipro cables.
Thankyou Craig - I was not aware that fibre optic cables were an option prior to your reply - thankyou! I believe Oppo to be a class leader and so the cable is much more likely to be the cause of my woes. I'll research the available options and take it from there - thanks again - )
Loftboy is offline  
post #9 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 04:00 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,700
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7212 Post(s)
Liked: 8624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loftboy View Post
Thankyou Craig - I was not aware that fibre optic cables were an option prior to your reply - thankyou! I believe Oppo to be a class leader and so the cable is much more likely to be the cause of my woes. I'll research the available options and take it from there - thanks again - )
You would be surprised how many " 18GBps HDMI guaranteed " cables don't work. I'm guessing that's the problem. When 4K works it's spectacular.
Archibald1 likes this.
Craig Peer is offline  
post #10 of 27 Old 11-28-2019, 06:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Reddig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Central U.S.
Posts: 2,968
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 557 Post(s)
Liked: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loftboy View Post
Thankyou Craig - I was not aware that fibre optic cables were an option prior to your reply - thankyou! I believe Oppo to be a class leader and so the cable is much more likely to be the cause of my woes. I'll research the available options and take it from there - thanks again - )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
You would be surprised how many " 18GBps HDMI guaranteed " cables don't work. I'm guessing that's the problem. When 4K works it's spectacular.

While 4K HDR on a projector can look spectacular be careful if you are expecting a projector to look like an OLED panel or LCD panel when displaying HDR, the brightness is just simply not there.

JBL Pro/JTR/JVC/Denon/Oppo/Monoprice/Elite Screens/Furman/Seatcraft/Acoustimac/AudioQuest/Roku
Reddig is offline  
post #11 of 27 Old 11-29-2019, 12:08 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,700
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7212 Post(s)
Liked: 8624
4K can look like this on a projector -









Craig Peer is offline  
post #12 of 27 Old 11-29-2019, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post
While 4K HDR on a projector can look spectacular be careful if you are expecting a projector to look like an OLED panel or LCD panel when displaying HDR, the brightness is just simply not there.
No way am I expecting OLED type performance from my JVC X7500 - but 4k has to look better than 1080p.
The head scratcher for me is two fold...


1. I'm perplexed as to why my PJ info is reporting 4k when the picture is indistingushable from 1080p (picture is stable)
2. Totally unpredictable spates of audio dropout.


Could No 2 be due to comms between source and PJ not being all they should be? Even though I'm using the seprate audio out HDMI, if some sort of disagreement exists on the main HDMI the secondary audio HDMI might be being affected. How does EDID work anyway. I'm just thinking outloud.

Last edited by Loftboy; 11-29-2019 at 04:43 AM.
Loftboy is offline  
post #13 of 27 Old 11-29-2019, 01:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Reddig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Central U.S.
Posts: 2,968
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 557 Post(s)
Liked: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loftboy View Post
No way am I expecting OLED type performance from my JVC X7500 - but 4k has to look better than 1080p.
The head scratcher for me is two fold...


1. I'm perplexed as to why my PJ info is reporting 4k when the picture is indistingushable from 1080p (picture is stable)
2. Totally unpredictable spates of audio dropout.


Could No 2 be due to comms between source and PJ not being all they should be? Even though I'm using the seprate audio out HDMI, if some sort of disagreement exists on the main HDMI the secondary audio HDMI might be being affected. How does EDID work anyway. I'm just thinking outloud.
Ok good deal just checking.

Maybe its your screen material or the 7500 just isnt that sharp? I can tell you my RS540 isnt the sharpest projector when watching 4K. Without HDR there isnt much of a performance bump on my projector when watching just 4K material compared to 1080.

JBL Pro/JTR/JVC/Denon/Oppo/Monoprice/Elite Screens/Furman/Seatcraft/Acoustimac/AudioQuest/Roku

Last edited by Reddig; 11-29-2019 at 01:42 PM.
Reddig is offline  
post #14 of 27 Old 11-29-2019, 02:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Out West
Posts: 1,456
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 816 Post(s)
Liked: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loftboy View Post
I've been enjoying HD streaming (Uncompressed BluRay rips) from my NAS's to my Oppo 105 for a few years now - for the last couple of years to my JVC X7500 PJ with consistently great, occasionally spectacular, rock solid results. Recently I thought it was time to upgrade to 4K. Consequently, Having ripped a few 4K bluray titles, I aquired, an M9702 (Oppo 203 Clone) and pressed it into service.
It played the 4k files fine and initially I actually thought the picture was improved, but it soon became apparent that even though my X7500 was stating that it was receiving a 4k signal the observed picture did not actually reflect this. Doing a series of objective comparisons of 1080p HD rips vs 4k rips showed no observable difference - I'd have thought the 4k would be clearly better - but no, the diffence between movies I was seeing was down purely to the movies themselves (e.g. Life of Pi looks amazing in 1080p). So WTF is going on??
Time for some serious troubleshooting....
To give you a wider picture of my system - the output from my M9702 goes to a 4k UHD compatible 4x2 HDMI switch and then to my PJ.
I bypassed this switch, taking the video signal direct to my PJ. The result of this? - NO picture AT ALL!!
Next step was to substitute my 10yr old 7.5m certified 1.3b cable for a "High Speed" HDMI cable. This cable gave a picture, but was VERY flakey - 2s picture 2s no picture PJ going HI/Lo every 2s etc.
Next step - reinstate the 4x2 switch (using the same High speed cable) - result - stability restored, but the picture still indistinguishaable from 1080p - just like my existing 1.3b cable. (PJ still stating it was receiving a 4k signal)

(In case you are wondering, the audio is taken from the "audio only" output on the Oppo to an Anthem processor and so dealt with separately.)


I invite your advice as to how I might restore the solidity I had with "bog standard" HD with my new UHD streaming system, but, and most importantly, how I might actually release the benefit of my 4k rips. Yes - I know the JVC X7500 is "faux" 4k, but surely there has to be a discernable PQ improvement with a 4k rip? Might it be that HDMI switches are not what they purport to be? -Mine has 4k printed on it - but that may not mean sh*t ??
Enough already - over to you guys !!!


PS The "Nightmare" part of the title refers to the fact that even though the audio feeds to my Anthem processor from the separate "audio only" HDMI port, I get occassional annoying audio dropouts which come at no particular time - I can have 2hrs without trouble and then 5 mins of dropouts and then they go away again - for hours - bizarre !!
There's 4K and there's HDR and the two don't always meet. Many "4K HDR" BDs were actually mastered in 2K and then upscaled to 4K for BD release so the resolution difference between these 4K BDs and HD BDs is minimal, even though the 4K version probably has a wider colour pallet and will make use of HDR in the encoding. Examples of these are most of the Marvel superhero BDs. Here's a quick comparison between 4K and HD AEG:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58441162

However there are a number of 4K HDR BDs that have been mastered in 4K (or near 4K) and will show a considerable increase in resolution over an HD BD. Some examples are Passengers (2016), Blade Runner, BR2049 and 2001. For a quick summary of recent 4K or upscaled 4K BDs:

https://real4kbluray.com/

Life of PI was mastered in 2K.
DunMunro is offline  
post #15 of 27 Old 11-29-2019, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
There's 4K and there's HDR and the two don't always meet. Many "4K HDR" BDs were actually mastered in 2K and then upscaled to 4K for BD release so the resolution difference between these 4K BDs and HD BDs is minimal, even though the 4K version probably has a wider colour pallet and will make use of HDR in the encoding. Examples of these are most of the Marvel superhero BDs. Here's a quick comparison between 4K and HD AEG:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58441162

However there are a number of 4K HDR BDs that have been mastered in 4K (or near 4K) and will show a considerable increase in resolution over an HD BD. Some examples are Passengers (2016), Blade Runner, BR2049 and 2001. For a quick summary of recent 4K or upscaled 4K BDs:

https://real4kbluray.com/

Life of PI was mastered in 2K.
Thanks Dun - I've clearly stepped on a steep learning curve and am subsequently climbing at a rate of knots !
I've been very happy with the PQ from my current 1080 setup and haven't felt like I actually needed something better. Indeed, if I had to say "bollocks to it" I'll stick with the HD rips that I have, I'd be quite content (with the hassle I've encountered so far this is where I'm currently heading)

That said, I believe my current sytem IS capable of even better performance, which is why I'm trying to take my system to the next level and asking questions here. Unfortunately I'm struggling to realise better performance without the rock solid reliabilty I'm used to. To be honest, I don't feel the need for more brightness/pop especially if this will be accompanied by varying fan noise due to HDR - I had a taste of this when my, albeit flaky, "high speed "cable was used. I have the luxury of a fully light controlled HT room and so just a little more resolution would be be quite sufficient. The other big issue with my move to 4k is this damned unpredictable audio drop out I'm experiencing.
Loftboy is offline  
post #16 of 27 Old 11-29-2019, 04:22 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,214
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2533 Post(s)
Liked: 1372
The RS-540 not being a Native 4k projector doesn't help, combine that with 2k masters and you're not watching 4k.
Despite what people think, increasing Chroma information is NOT enough to make things look drastically different unless you are sitting incredibly close.

You might consider selling the RS-540 and getting a Native 4k projector, if 4k sharpness is your main goal. I would sell it soon while the selling is still good, because the RS-540 may devalue rapidly in another 1-2 years when 4k is the standard and no longer the exception with projectors, or it may not (I don't know, but always a chance).

Some movies might look better with increased Chroma (never tested it enough to know personally), but in my vast years of image and video editing, it hasn't really worked like that. Compression causes more of a color shift before it really causes a noticeable difference in sharpness, at least IME, but it varies depending on the content. Now if something is really highly compressed (like a JPEG or certain MPEG), then yah it can lose a lot of sharpness, but the lossy compression levels aren't really that high with video on our Blurays and UHD's, more so in streaming, and even then it's gotten pretty good now. Resolution is resolution for the most part, unless you are cooking the image using special upscaling or sharpening techniques or some combination, then it becomes complicated. Upscaling algorithms don't always increase the quality either, they can have the opposite effect sometimes, depends what weakness a particular edit has.

People see what they want to see though, so don't want to start any argument on that point.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 11-29-2019 at 04:28 PM.
coderguy is online now  
post #17 of 27 Old 11-29-2019, 05:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Most movies are 2k DI anyways. That means there's little resolution improvement* but there's is more data / info on a "4k" file. Meaning less compression, better dynamic range, better color grading. All of it means, you'll need a good calibration and good tone maping. And it is hell to get it right. I had to build a HTPC, buy a meter, calibrate with 3dluts and tone map with madvr before I could extract something worthy from my projector.

*2k DI is the same whether it is 2k with 4:4:4 (no subsampling) or 4k with 4:2:0 subsampling. With a 4k DI, the luma layer is actually 4k so there's a real difference in actual resolution.
coderguy likes this.
entropy02 is offline  
post #18 of 27 Old 11-29-2019, 06:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Reddig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Central U.S.
Posts: 2,968
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 557 Post(s)
Liked: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
The RS-540 not being a Native 4k projector doesn't help, combine that with 2k masters and you're not watching 4k.
Despite what people think, increasing Chroma information is NOT enough to make things look drastically different unless you are sitting incredibly close.

You might consider selling the RS-540 and getting a Native 4k projector, if 4k sharpness is your main goal. I would sell it soon while the selling is still good, because the RS-540 may devalue rapidly in another 1-2 years when 4k is the standard and no longer the exception with projectors, or it may not (I don't know, but always a chance).

Some movies might look better with increased Chroma (never tested it enough to know personally), but in my vast years of image and video editing, it hasn't really worked like that. Compression causes more of a color shift before it really causes a noticeable difference in sharpness, at least IME, but it varies depending on the content. Now if something is really highly compressed (like a JPEG or certain MPEG), then yah it can lose a lot of sharpness, but the lossy compression levels aren't really that high with video on our Blurays and UHD's, more so in streaming, and even then it's gotten pretty good now. Resolution is resolution for the most part, unless you are cooking the image using special upscaling or sharpening techniques or some combination, then it becomes complicated. Upscaling algorithms don't always increase the quality either, they can have the opposite effect sometimes, depends what weakness a particular edit has.

People see what they want to see though, so don't want to start any argument on that point.
He has the X7500, not the X7900 (RS540). The X7900 does 4K HDR better then the X7500 however your points are true none the less about it being 1080P native and not as sharp.

JBL Pro/JTR/JVC/Denon/Oppo/Monoprice/Elite Screens/Furman/Seatcraft/Acoustimac/AudioQuest/Roku
Reddig is offline  
post #19 of 27 Old 11-29-2019, 07:50 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,214
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2533 Post(s)
Liked: 1372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post
He has the X7500, not the X7900 (RS540). The X7900 does 4K HDR better then the X7500 however your points are true none the less about it being 1080P native and not as sharp.
Same difference, they are basically the same projector when discussing resolution, excluding the built-in HDR mapping (but most people don't use JVC"s own HDR gamma on the JVC RS-5xx series anyhow, everyone using MadVR). So very little difference other than adding a gaming mode, CMD updates, some color tables, DI variations, and whatever else they did.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is online now  
post #20 of 27 Old 11-30-2019, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
OK - Thanks guys, you've really given me some great perspective on what lies ahead for me. I can't see me swapping out my X7500 any time soon - it's a great machine. Meanwhile I'll maybe invest in a fibre optic HDMI cable (7.5m is the minimum length I need) and perhaps a better 4x2 HDMI switch (I can't do without a switch). Having aquired these I might have another bash at 4k but for now I can't be wondering when the next audio dropout disaster will occur ;- )
Loftboy is offline  
post #21 of 27 Old 11-30-2019, 08:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,851
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 750 Post(s)
Liked: 816
I tried about 3 or 4 different switches when I had my Onkyo but never could get it to do 10 bit successfully, so my solution was to upgrade to a better AVR that could do 4k with 10 bit 4:2:2 (but of course you also need a good hdmi cable). With the switch you may never get it the way you want.
m0j0 is offline  
post #22 of 27 Old 11-30-2019, 09:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 27
There’s a loose end in this conversation.

Facts:
1) with the cable directly from source the 4K picture drops out, so fact is that this cable is faulty or not enough capacity.
2) with that same cable and a switch it works fine.

This does not make sense. If a cable can’t carry a signal directly then the only way that it can render without problems after the switch if is the switch has significantly downgraded the signal.

Or am I missing something?


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
ijansch is online now  
post #23 of 27 Old 11-30-2019, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijansch View Post
There’s a loose end in this conversation.

Facts:
1) with the cable directly from source the 4K picture drops out, so fact is that this cable is faulty or not enough capacity.
2) with that same cable and a switch it works fine.

This does not make sense. If a cable can’t carry a signal directly then the only way that it can render without problems after the switch if is the switch has significantly downgraded the signal.

Or am I missing something?


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
I follow what you are saying and am of the same mind - The newly purchased "high speed" cable when used to connect source with PJ directly was trying it's best to work - flakey as hell, but I could hear the PJ fan noise varying (I'm guessing the PJ was sensing an HDR signal then not?) But when using the same cable from the switch the picture was stable - rock solid.
I can think of a couple of reasons for this....
1. The switch is boosting the signal (unlikely as the PJ fan noise remained in the low mode)
2. The switch and the PJ, having had their "conversation" decided to pass 1080p rather than 4k (knowing precious little of the complexities of EDID I don't know if this is even credible)
Loftboy is offline  
post #24 of 27 Old 11-30-2019, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
I tried about 3 or 4 different switches when I had my Onkyo but never could get it to do 10 bit successfully, so my solution was to upgrade to a better AVR that could do 4k with 10 bit 4:2:2 (but of course you also need a good hdmi cable). With the switch you may never get it the way you want.

Thanks for passing on your experience. Up until now, I've used an HDMI switch to avoid having to power up my Anthem D2v processor for watching basic TV etc. However, if I DID lose the HDMI switch and use the Anthem for the switching instead, having consulted the spec, I'm still screwed because my legacy Anthem can't handle 4k (according to the spec 1080p 60Hz is the limit) - My 8 grand all singing all dancing amp now, it's clear, aint worth sh*t !!

What alternatives to my now, clearly outdated Anthem are available? I see there are plenty of "AVRs" out there but I don't need a "receiver" - I have separate amps for all my speakers - I just need a good pre/pro - nothing fancy.... Any recomendations?
Loftboy is offline  
post #25 of 27 Old 11-30-2019, 04:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
m0j0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,851
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 750 Post(s)
Liked: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loftboy View Post
Thanks for passing on your experience. Up until now, I've used an HDMI switch to avoid having to power up my Anthem D2v processor for watching basic TV etc. However, if I DID lose the HDMI switch and use the Anthem for the switching instead, having consulted the spec, I'm still screwed because my legacy Anthem can't handle 4k (according to the spec 1080p 60Hz is the limit) - My 8 grand all singing all dancing amp now, it's clear, aint worth sh*t !!

What alternatives to my now, clearly outdated Anthem are available? I see there are plenty of "AVRs" out there but I don't need a "receiver" - I have separate amps for all my speakers - I just need a good pre/pro - nothing fancy.... Any recomendations?

I don't know anything about pre pro setups, so don't really have any advice to offer there, sorry. I went with a Denon x4400h and it's been good for me, and also has pre-outs so I do have an external amp setup with it.
m0j0 is offline  
post #26 of 27 Old 12-03-2019, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Loftboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 11
OK - I have an update and it's good news !!.........


I received a new HDMI cable today - a 10m active hybrid optical fibre cable. I connected the cable direct from source to PJ (no switch - I'll try that tomorrow). With the old cable and switch in circuit my PJ was reporting 4k YUV 8 bit. (without the switch I got no picture at all) The new cable works flawlessly and the PJ reports 4k YUV 12bit.
The visible difference in PQ I was expecting/hoping for between HD and UHD is now very obvious.
Previously my PJ stayed in low lamp mode, but now it's clearly detecting an HDR feed and consequently going into high lamp mode - this is undesirable to me and so I've set this not to happen.
Even in low lamp mode the PQ difference is plain to see - great! It'll be interesting to see what happens when I put the switch back into the chain, but if it degrades the signal I'll use the other available HDMI port on the PJ as a dedicated 4k feed (this won't be an issue as I only have one 4k feed - the Oppo 203).
While I'm here, does anyone know why my PJ is reporting YUV rather than the actual colour space e.g. 4:4:4 etc

Last edited by Loftboy; 12-03-2019 at 03:56 PM.
Loftboy is offline  
post #27 of 27 Old 12-04-2019, 02:58 AM
Member
 
DocCharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 6
TBH, the difference between 8 and 10/12 bits is not that spectacular.


I suspect there's something else going on here...
DocCharky is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off