Best 5000+ Lumen 4K Projector for Home Theater Use - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Best 5000+ Lumen 4K Projector for Home Theater Use

I have an Optoma UHD60 on a 135" screen in my current home theater (see attached photo). We are getting ready to sell our house and build a new house. I'm planning on a 14 seat theater with a 200" screen. I'm currently getting 22 fL on my screen and I'd like to have at least that bright of a screen at 200". I was leaning towards getting a brighter projector rather than a higher gain screen in order to avoid hot-spotting. We do about 60% movies and 40% gaming.

I've been looking at:
  • BenQ LK970
  • BenQ LK952
  • Optoma 4K500
  • Optoma ZK507

It looks like most UST projectors aren't rated beyond 150". I'd like to stay under $10K if possible.
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post #2 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Reale View Post
I have an Optoma UHD60 on a 135" screen in my current home theater (see attached photo). We are getting ready to sell our house and build a new house. I'm planning on a 14 seat theater with a 200" screen. I'm currently getting 22 fL on my screen and I'd like to have at least that bright of a screen at 200". I was leaning towards getting a brighter projector rather than a higher gain screen in order to avoid hot-spotting. We do about 60% movies and 40% gaming.



I've been looking at:
  • BenQ LK970
  • BenQ LK952
  • Optoma 4K500
  • Optoma ZK507



It looks like most UST projectors aren't rated beyond 150". I'd like to stay under $10K if possible.
I would look into a JVC NX7 with a DCR lens. The lens will increase your light output by about 38% and the dynamic tone mapping will allow for great HDR even with lower light output. You should be right around your price target with buying both items at the same time from an authorized dealer. I am referring to an anamorphic lens.

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post #3 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 09:54 AM
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It's not really about the rated lumens but the CALIBRATED LUMENS. You said you want 5000 lumens, but I'm guessing you want 5000 calibrated lumens to D65.

My LK952 arrives this week and I will begin testing and calibrating. It has a multitude of adjustments and calibrating controls I am hoping that in 30 days I can get a decent, bright watchable image on my 150" scope screen in a very well lit living room. I will keep the LK952 thread updated with results and measurements from HCFR and pictures and video.

I would imagine a LK990 would be a pretty good option to consider as well. It calibrates to 3800 lumens if I remember correctly. And a member here named JAVS I think posted some of his calibrated images. STUNNING AND BEAUTIFUL. Very minor color variations from source material but you'd have to be amazingly critical to have it bother you. Let me see if I can find the pics. He just did an amazing job.

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post #4 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 10:02 AM
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Found the post with the pics from the LK990/970 (I'm not sure which)

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post58294084

But you have to click on two little blue buttons in the post that says "Spoiler" and then the pics show up.

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post #5 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHuey View Post
It's not really about the rated lumens but the CALIBRATED LUMENS. You said you want 5000 lumens, but I'm guessing you want 5000 calibrated lumens to D65.

My LK952 arrives this week and I will begin testing and calibrating. It has a multitude of adjustments and calibrating controls I am hoping that in 30 days I can get a decent, bright watchable image on my 150" scope screen in a very well lit living room. I will keep the LK952 thread updated with results and measurements from HCFR and pictures and video.

I would imagine a LK990 would be a pretty good option to consider as well. It calibrates to 3800 lumens if I remember correctly. And a member here named JAVS I think posted some of his calibrated images. STUNNING AND BEAUTIFUL. Very minor color variations from source material but you'd have to be amazingly critical to have it bother you. Let me see if I can find the pics. He just did an amazing job.
JAVS did not get 3,800 lumens calibrated. JAVS said the 990 and his E-shift JVC were fairly close in brightness once both were calibrated. After all the hype, JAVS was disappointed and went back to his E-shift JVC. Now with that said, I am not saying the 990 is a bad projector. Just saying do not expect anywhere near 5,000 lumens when calibrated, not even half of that. The990 does throw a nice sharp image and would be great for sports or rooms that have poor light control, since in those type of rooms, you are giving up on getting good contrast anyway.
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post #6 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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You are correct, I'm not expecting 5000 calibrated lumens. I know my Optoma UHD60 isn't cranking out a full 3000 lumens in HDR or Cinema modes. That said, I don't want to end up with a significantly dimmer image at 200" than what I have now. I've been trying to figure out if that means getting a higher lumen projector and calibrating it down or getting a better-calibrated projector, like the NX7, and adding a higher-gain screen. I've been using Projector Central's calculator and aiming for an fL of at least 20.

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post #7 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Reale View Post
You are correct, I'm not expecting 5000 calibrated lumens. I know my Optoma UHD60 isn't cranking out a full 3000 lumens in HDR or Cinema modes. That said, I don't want to end up with a significantly dimmer image at 200" than what I have now. I've been trying to figure out if that means getting a higher lumen projector and calibrating it down or getting a better-calibrated projector, like the NX7, and adding a higher-gain screen. I've been using Projector Central's calculator and aiming for an fL of at least 20.
You would be better off getting actual calibrated lumen numbers from a trustworthy review, and using one of the many screen / lumen calculator programs floating around both here and on the web to do these calculations.
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post #8 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Reale View Post
You are correct, I'm not expecting 5000 calibrated lumens. I know my Optoma UHD60 isn't cranking out a full 3000 lumens in HDR or Cinema modes. That said, I don't want to end up with a significantly dimmer image at 200" than what I have now. I've been trying to figure out if that means getting a higher lumen projector and calibrating it down or getting a better-calibrated projector, like the NX7, and adding a higher-gain screen. I've been using Projector Central's calculator and aiming for an fL of at least 20.
Well gosh I think that's a very realistic goal. I'm just not sure you will be happy with that 20fl for HDR content. There is some talk going on right now in another thread about the dimmer projectors and HDR handling but it's all subjective. But like Mike said above, the LK990 is a good choice of projector for many rooms and tastes. The 990 starts at 6000 lumens and then calibrates down. Some people calibrate it way down for very critical viewing and some don't go quite as far using the lumen horsepower to accomplish the job. Your projector is no good if you can't see the image lol. It's like comparing a 747 and a Cessna, the 747 is gonna be a much better ride to your destination but if you can't get off the runway cause it's too short what good is it. It's all about the mission and what's important to you since we haven't found the ONE size fits all projector.

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post #9 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
You would be better off getting actual calibrated lumen numbers from a trustworthy review, and using one of the many screen / lumen calculator programs floating around both here and on the web to do these calculations.
This is great advice. Most of the calculators let you correct/enter the actual lumens you will be expecting after you select the projector.

Here are a few

http://www.webprojectorcalculator.com/

http://www.reviewtranslations.com/pr...ulator_en.html
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post #10 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Reale View Post
You are correct, I'm not expecting 5000 calibrated lumens. I know my Optoma UHD60 isn't cranking out a full 3000 lumens in HDR or Cinema modes. That said, I don't want to end up with a significantly dimmer image at 200" than what I have now. I've been trying to figure out if that means getting a higher lumen projector and calibrating it down or getting a better-calibrated projector, like the NX7, and adding a higher-gain screen. I've been using Projector Central's calculator and aiming for an fL of at least 20.
My LK970 calibrated with lightspace 3DLUT put out 3600-3800lumens on 135inch 16:9 1.0 gain, so with 1.3 gain screen like the ST130 it will give u even more.
For reference my JVC rs440 puts out around 1400-1500 calibrated lumens with high lamp iris wide open.

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post #11 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHuey View Post
It's not really about the rated lumens but the CALIBRATED LUMENS. You said you want 5000 lumens, but I'm guessing you want 5000 calibrated lumens to D65.

My LK952 arrives this week and I will begin testing and calibrating. It has a multitude of adjustments and calibrating controls I am hoping that in 30 days I can get a decent, bright watchable image on my 150" scope screen in a very well lit living room. I will keep the LK952 thread updated with results and measurements from HCFR and pictures and video.

I would imagine a LK990 would be a pretty good option to consider as well. It calibrates to 3800 lumens if I remember correctly. And a member here named JAVS I think posted some of his calibrated images. STUNNING AND BEAUTIFUL. Very minor color variations from source material but you'd have to be amazingly critical to have it bother you. Let me see if I can find the pics. He just did an amazing job.
JAVS did not get 3,800 lumens calibrated. JAVS said the 990 and his E-shift JVC were fairly close in brightness once both were calibrated. After all the hype, JAVS was disappointed and went back to his E-shift JVC. Now with that said, I am not saying the 990 is a bad projector. Just saying do not expect anywhere near 5,000 lumens when calibrated, not even half of that. The990 does throw a nice sharp image and would be great for sports or rooms that have poor light control, since in those type of rooms, you are giving up on getting good contrast anyway.
Javs said that he encountered a weird issue where when he turned off dynamic color ( not sure what it is called ) he lost almost half the lumens, not sure if that is a bug or that is how the 990 works, but with the LK970 it doesnt have any of these settings and it does acheive these nbrs, @markmon1 friend has a 180inch screen and uses the 970.

200inch is a huge screen , not sure if anything under 5000lumens is bright enough, even with madVR excellent dtm u ll be compressing a lot and lose picture quality if u cant even reach 40-50nits.

His best option is the Sony Vw5000 but that is $60k

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Last edited by tnaik4; 12-04-2019 at 03:21 AM.
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post #12 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
My LK970 calibrated with lightspace 3DLUT put out 3600-3800lumens on 135inch 16:9 1.0 gain, so with 1.3 gain screen like the ST130 it will give u even more.
For reference my JVC rs440 puts out around 1400-1500 calibrated lumens with high lamp iris wide open.
Are you running your LK970 in a dark room? How are the black levels?

I'll be in a completely light-controlled room so I'm wondering if I'd be good with a calibrated LK970 or an NX7 with a 1.3 gain screen.

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Originally Posted by Tony Reale View Post
Are you running your LK970 in a dark room? How are the black levels?

I'll be in a completely light-controlled room so I'm wondering if I'd be good with a calibrated LK970 or an NX7 with a 1.3 gain screen.
yes in a completely dark room with black velvet covering most of the room, the black level is not really good and i wouldnt recommend it if u had 120-130inch screen and want good contrast , but for 200inch i m not sure nx7 will be enough light .

Are u planning to run the NX7 with high lamp all the time ? cause that will make it dim alot faster and u need all the light u can get with that screen size so u have to take that into consideration, latest madVR builds will help u get great image from low light on the screen but i m not sure what will be considered too low .

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post #14 of 24 Old 12-03-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TimHuey View Post
It's not really about the rated lumens but the CALIBRATED LUMENS. You said you want 5000 lumens, but I'm guessing you want 5000 calibrated lumens to D65.

My LK952 arrives this week and I will begin testing and calibrating. It has a multitude of adjustments and calibrating controls I am hoping that in 30 days I can get a decent, bright watchable image on my 150" scope screen in a very well lit living room. I will keep the LK952 thread updated with results and measurements from HCFR and pictures and video.

I would imagine a LK990 would be a pretty good option to consider as well. It calibrates to 3800 lumens if I remember correctly. And a member here named JAVS I think posted some of his calibrated images. STUNNING AND BEAUTIFUL. Very minor color variations from source material but you'd have to be amazingly critical to have it bother you. Let me see if I can find the pics. He just did an amazing job.
I'm really looking forward to your testing and evaluation of your new projector.

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General rule of thumb...

Take any projector's brightest mode, then take the calibrated lumens from a review site, then average it.
So if the calibrated lumens is 2000, the brightest mode is 4000, your watchable image is 3000 lumens.

That is your realistically near-calibrated or close-enough for govt watachable image.

If your on that big of a screen, going for a perfect calibration is not worth it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
General rule of thumb...

Take any projector's brightest mode, then take the calibrated lumens from a review site, then average it.
So if the calibrated lumens is 2000, the brightest mode is 4000, your watchable image is 3000 lumens.

That is your realistically near-calibrated or close-enough for govt watachable image.

If your on that big of a screen, going for a perfect calibration is not worth it.
You guys are helping me realize that I'm looking at the wrong specs on my UHD60. Most reviews say its closer to 1100-1300 lumens in HDR mode (which I do most of my watching in). I just ordered a lux meter so I'll soon be able to see what the exact lumens I'm currently getting are.

With that in mind, I may be able to get by on a projector that has a higher calibrated lumen level that doesn't need to be beyond 5000 lumens.. Something like the 6050UB might even work, though the screen door effect might be too pronounced at 200".

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I think the Benq lk970 is what I would pick if I were you.

6050 not going to work, that's like 2000-2500 watchable lumens depending how picky you are.

There is no high contrast solution to your problem, not in a reasonable budget anyhow, unless...

You can buy used JVC RS-400/420/440's and double stack, the problem with double stacking is lens memory, if you won't be using lens memory I guess it's 'OK'.
I think it introduces motion artifacts and likely causes issues with gaming though, not to mention reduces sharpness a bit.

Don't get me wrong, lens memory can still work in a double stack, but re-aligning every time you switch is going to be extremely painful.
You could also double stack Epsons, but used or refurb Epsons are much more likely to have convergence issues than used or b-stock JVC's.
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I think the Benq lk970 is what I would pick if I were you.

6050 not going to work, that's like 2000-2500 watchable lumens depending how picky you are.

There is no high contrast solution to your problem, not in a reasonable budget anyhow, unless...

You can buy used JVC RS-400/420/440's and double stack, the problem with double stacking is lens memory, if you won't be using lens memory I guess it's 'OK'.
I think it introduces motion artifacts and likely causes issues with gaming though, not to mention reduces sharpness a bit.

Don't get me wrong, lens memory can still work in a double stack, but re-aligning every time you switch is going to be extremely painful.
You could also double stack Epsons, but used or refurb Epsons are much more likely to have convergence issues than used or b-stock JVC's.
i second coderguy, the LK970 or 990 will be ur best bet , the Sony VW5000ES is the only high contrast 5000 lumen projector but super expensive, 200inch is a very big screen, unless u can go to a smaller size than u have limited options.

I also had a UHD60 when it was released , believe me the LK970 will destroy it in every aspect plus its a laser. i m getting 67FL calibrated from it on my 135inch screen, so that is 3 times what ur getting with ur UHD60, also since u do 40% gaming its a no brainer , its stunning for games!! and the lens is second to none so its super clean and sharp. any other option other than the sony will be very dim for gaming on a 200inch screen.

I honestly think the LK970 is ur best option and u can get it for well under 5k!!

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How's the input lag on the LK970?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
General rule of thumb...

Take any projector's brightest mode, then take the calibrated lumens from a review site, then average it.
So if the calibrated lumens is 2000, the brightest mode is 4000, your watchable image is 3000 lumens.

That is your realistically near-calibrated or close-enough for govt watachable image.

If your on that big of a screen, going for a perfect calibration is not worth it.
I like the way you think. It's hard to convince some people that strategy is appropriate in home theater.

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How's the input lag on the LK970?
Its similar to the JVC rs440 i have with low lag mode, i measured it one time against my pc monitor and it was ~35ms slower , and that monitor is ~10ms , so 45-50ms . I really cant tell the difference when playing and i play games that require very quick reactions with parry/dodges like Dark Souls etc...

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post #22 of 24 Old 12-04-2019, 03:33 AM
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I like the way you think. It's hard to convince some people that strategy is appropriate in home theater.
Optimally, most accurate calibration is sometimes best, but people way over obsess in this forum about calibration numbers, they aren't even the final determining factor in many cases (see below). I mean they certainly can be in some cases, but depends. I would obsess over gamma and skin tones, that is most important.

Here is my take on calibration...

I'm not a pro calibrator, or even close to it at this point (I had 'ok' old school knowledge, but I'm very outdated now). However, I spent a lot of time remastering static images, about 5 years before I quit. My specific job, was that I wrote my own remastering software in .NET using ImageMagick and other libraries, and what not for the project. We also used other software.

What appears to be a bad calibration that does decent skin tones, can still be ok (hence one that is pretty far off), so it just depends really. What appears to be a good calibration by dE can sometimes be MUCH MUCH worse than it appears on paper due to very small shifts that stack on skin tones to cause issues (sat tracking, color mixing, what not). So it's not always about the exact dE, but it's partly about skin tones and the end resulting contrast achieved. Certain types of color shifts or color mixing can affect skin tones much more severely than other shifts.

As one example that directly applies to projectors, on my old RS-45, I could get the dE very low, but the color still looked worse than a Viewsonic which had a dE well over 5, because of a yellow saturation issue on the JVC. Viewsonic had more severe issues, but the issues blended in with actual content much better. I don't think there is anyone that would pick the JVC color over the Viewsonic, though my Benq did have better color than both, the Viewsonic was still second by a HUGE margin even with a large error. The RS-45 probably has the worst color of any projector I've ever owned, regardless of the dE. It's ok, but it has issues at times.

This wasn't a unique problem to projectors, I found similar things on monitors, TV's, etc... Also, sometimes correcting the final few dE's would just lose all the brightness (as is the case with my JVC - possibly due to current lamp), so totally not worth it in many cases.
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So I reached out to Optoma and they said by the end of 2020, they may have a few more options out that would be in line with what I'm looking for i.e. high lumens, low input lag, better DCI-P3 color.

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post #24 of 24 Old 12-06-2019, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Reale View Post
So I reached out to Optoma and they said by the end of 2020, they may have a few more options out that would be in line with what I'm looking for i.e. high lumens, low input lag, better DCI-P3 color.
That is interesting , if u can wait thats the best thing to do, or just get a cheap option now while u wait for the end of 2020

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