Chiq C8UT 4k Laser UST 220%-Rec709 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 12-29-2019, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Chiq C8UT 4k Laser UST 220%-Rec709

http://cn.changhong.com/cpzx/pb_tele...029_76256.html

Why nobody talking about this projector?

True 3 laser projector

Full DCI-P3, 220% Rec.709

They are calming 450 nits on 100 inch screen.
New 0.66 TI Chip
15,000:1 contrast

"edit" not sure about the price in USD

changhong is one of the largest tv manufactures in the world, worth billions.

Last edited by mercuryyy; 12-30-2019 at 09:20 PM.
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post #2 of 24 Old 12-29-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
http://cn.changhong.com/cpzx/pb_tele...029_76256.html

Why nobody talking about this projector?

True 3 laser projector

Full DCI-P3, 220% Rec.709

They are calming 450 nits on 100 inch screen.
New 0.66 TI Chip
15,000:1 contrast

99997.00 yen is actually 914.67$ wot?

changhong is one of the largest tv manufactures in the world, worth billions.
Interesting spec sheet but i doubt its accuracy.

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post #3 of 24 Old 12-29-2019, 08:30 PM
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First time I hear about this company or projector, but there was some chatter here

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...projector.html

More competition is good, but hopefully we'll start seeing more English versions of these USTs.

Xiaomi Mija Mi Laser UST 1080P (International), Sharp 4k 65", LG 4k 43", Nvidia Shield
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post #4 of 24 Old 12-29-2019, 09:00 PM
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If the price is accurate then it’s more expensive than the Sony VPL-VZ1000ES, which is currently under 12k euro at my local Sony Center.
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post #5 of 24 Old 12-29-2019, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tambur123 View Post
If the price is accurate then it’s more expensive than the Sony VPL-VZ1000ES, which is currently under 12k euro at my local Sony Center.
This is also twice the brightness of the VPL-VZ1000ES, plus 120% bt2020 3 laser pure RGB, It will probably outperform everything on the Market.

Last edited by mercuryyy; 12-30-2019 at 05:42 AM.
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post #6 of 24 Old 12-30-2019, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
This is also twice the brightness of the VPL-VZ1000ES, plus 120% bt2020 3 laser pure RGB, It will probably outperform everything on the Market.
If the specs were correct, it would be impressive, But that contrast number is pure BS. This is not even the first RGB laser. You must have missed this thread.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...es-2019-a.html
Every single one of these E-shift DLP's has pretty bad contrast. I have seen many of them. In a darkened room, colors look good, sharpness looks good. Contrast looks bad. In a room with a lot of ambient light, shooting onto an ALR screen, the image looks washed out, compared to a high contrast projector in a good darkened room.
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post #7 of 24 Old 12-30-2019, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
If the specs were correct, it would be impressive, But that contrast number is pure BS. This is not even the first RGB laser. You must have missed this thread.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...es-2019-a.html
Every single one of these E-shift DLP's has pretty bad contrast. I have seen many of them. In a darkened room, colors look good, sharpness looks good. Contrast looks bad. In a room with a lot of ambient light, shooting onto an ALR screen, the image looks washed out, compared to a high contrast projector in a good darkened room.
I spoke to them directly that is not the FOFO contrast they told me their previous version was 1200 FOFO and they will check with engineering and give me an .accurate FOFO contrast for the C8UT Model.

The Hisense 100L7T is only 96.6% REC2020

They are calming 120% REC2020 and 220% Rec709 with 450 Nits on 100" inch screen that is an impressive claim.
450 Nits on 100" has to be at least 3500-4000lm calibrated for that to work out.
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post #8 of 24 Old 12-30-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
I spoke to them directly that is not the FOFO contrast they told me their previous version was 1200 FOFO and they will check with engineering and give me an .accurate FOFO contrast for the C8UT Model.

The Hisense 100L7T is only 96.6% REC2020

They are calming 120% REC2020 and 220% Rec709 with 450 Nits on 100" inch screen that is an impressive claim.
450 Nits on 100" has to be at least 3500-4000lm calibrated for that to work out.
You are welcome to believe what you want. Until DLP works on their contrast problem, they will never provide the best image. What really sucks, DLP with actually good contrast would probably own the market. But DLP is not bothering to work on fixing the one thing they need, even though the technology is available to do so.
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post #9 of 24 Old 12-30-2019, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
You are welcome to believe what you want. Until DLP works on their contrast problem, they will never provide the best image. What really sucks, DLP with actually good contrast would probably own the market. But DLP is not bothering to work on fixing the one thing they need, even though the technology is available to do so.
I agree on the contrast, i'll update here when they get back to me with native FOFO contrast numbers.
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post #10 of 24 Old 12-30-2019, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
I agree on the contrast, i'll update here when they get back to me with native FOFO contrast numbers.
Since laser can shut off, they can claim infinity to 1 like all the rest do. We want dimming measured with a single lit pixel and dynamic fully off.
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post #11 of 24 Old 12-30-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
If the specs were correct, it would be impressive, But that contrast number is pure BS. This is not even the first RGB laser. You must have missed this thread.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...es-2019-a.html
Every single one of these E-shift DLP's has pretty bad contrast. I have seen many of them. In a darkened room, colors look good, sharpness looks good. Contrast looks bad. In a room with a lot of ambient light, shooting onto an ALR screen, the image looks washed out, compared to a high contrast projector in a good darkened room.
Shifting around the pixel gaps is never a good thing. Unfortunately native DLP contrasts have been going down for about 15 years now.
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post #12 of 24 Old 12-30-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
You are welcome to believe what you want. Until DLP works on their contrast problem, they will never provide the best image. What really sucks, DLP with actually good contrast would probably own the market. But DLP is not bothering to work on fixing the one thing they need, even though the technology is available to do so.
What is the fix then? JVC has figured out the light leek fix which seems simple, but surely isn't since no other manufacturer has figured it out. Also what native contrast do you think is possible with a DLP chip? I've seen upwards of 2500:1 for some of the Xiaomi's which to my eyes is pretty much on par with what I see at an IMAX/BigDDD (Christie triple flash projector)/AMC Prime theater, but on a smaller scale obviously.
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post #13 of 24 Old 12-30-2019, 11:05 PM
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What is the fix then? JVC has figured out the light leek fix which seems simple, but surely isn't since no other manufacturer has figured it out. Also what native contrast do you think is possible with a DLP chip? I've seen upwards of 2500:1 for some of the Xiaomi's which to my eyes is pretty much on par with what I see at an IMAX/BigDDD (Christie triple flash projector)/AMC Prime theater, but on a smaller scale obviously.
Theres a dual dmd design, look up the Christie Eclipse, also I think the Zeiss Velvet? And a Barco that can do up to 30k. All with some new patented or proprietary modulation, and all 6figures. a really optimized light path, lens, and a larger dmd can get up to 6k:1 with a 20-30k dynamic contrast like the sim2 lumis or hdr duo. They can do that contrast with high light output(2-3k lumens?) as well, those are also very expensive 3chip projectors one using dual lamp with lamp dimming+mechanical iris and the other an insanely tweaked 2 unit stack.

its just the nature of the modulator though it doesnt block light it reflects it away from the lens. But its extremely fast as it switches by electrostatic charge which results in zero motion blur and overshooting(even oled has issues with overshooting?), high mtf(light level aside), and improved dimensionality of video rendering(low apl contrast aside), ansi contrast(haloing) is a bit better than lcos but still nothing like backlit lcd or oled, but dlp contrast does behave more like a tv than liquid crystal does(think jvcs 200k:1 0.1% apl performance vs 3000:1 at 4% apl whereas a dlps native contrast is very similar to its 4% apl performance). Its really not so simple to achieve these high contrast levels with digital projectors and has taken 30 years to catch up with analog. Even though CRT had very high native contrast, it had very low ansi contrast which resulted in haloing with credits and similar material. And the lcos projectors still need a dynamic iris with gamma modulation to achieve a black level closer to crt and oled, i.e. 20-50k:1 native still leaves a glow, though not pure black aside, that onscreen contrast is superb looking.
7minutes for the microscope.

More affordably the .95dmd uhp models from runco, samsung, planar, etc. could do 3-4k:1 at around 800 lumens? with a 10kish dynamic contrast(mechanical iris).

The Delta/Chi Lin .95 rgb led projectors could do 190% ntsc, had 2-3.5k native contrast, 10-20k dynamic contrast, but only 400-800 lumens. Really amazing color performance on these(at rec709), low level color detail, color contrast. I have a q750i and was watching From Hell last night and the projector did very well, 90% of the movie is 1% apl(projector used a cool 125w through the whole movie lol) and the low level color detail and shadow detail was really great. not 200k:1 jvc blacks but the rest of the image is excellent and the 20k dynamic contrast is similar looking to my jvc rs45s native 20k, while that model cant come close to color performance. Also watched lotr/hobbit recently and the subtle shading and all the natural earth tones were really perfect looking.

Rgb solid state single chip dlp is a cool imaging system... extremely fast refresh due to the nature of the sequential color and dmd switching. Something like 8-900hz color frequency per led o.O +the dmd doesnt get shut off between colors like with a wheel. Though it takes an insanely high quality lens($3k minimum) to be free of chromatic abberation due to the narrowband wavelengths. Have they shown CA in any of these rgb laser ust projectors?

There were also rgb laser dlp rptvs 10 years ago though i dont know what contrast was like. Mitsubishi Laservue
https://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laserv...uru-exclusive/
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post #14 of 24 Old 12-31-2019, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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@bdht that is a very good detailed post explaining how dlp works.

I think the combination of a true 3 laser (eliminated the need of a color wheel) and the 0.66 chip done right can really bang some good results.
I wonder if using a 4 laser (red, green, blue, gray) can improved shadows and blacks significantly? parred with the right algorithm can be a game changer.
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post #15 of 24 Old 12-31-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
I think the combination of a true 3 laser (eliminated the need of a color wheel) and the 0.66 chip done right can really bang some good results.
I wonder if using a 4 laser (red, green, blue, gray) can improved shadows and blacks significantly?
Ya, really, rgb solid state dlp looks fantastic, really spectacular video rendering, its only major fault is black levels. The color ability and modulation transfer function already results in superb low level detail(shadows) its just lacking in dynamic range.

Heh, Id think a gray laser would just be a very dim white laser, unfortunately until the dual modulators or other designs find their way down to our price bracket if you want a lower black level and higher contrast your only option is dila or an oled tv. That or restricting light output and screen size and finding older .95 single chip models or dealing with the heat output and power consumption of 3chip models. even then only the .95 rgb led models have the expanded gamut and dont have the light output for hdr highlights, though the more saturated colors being perceived as brighter will help a bit. I think also due to the pure color wavelengths, the higher refresh rate, the lack of a color wheel and turning off the dmd between segments, and the uniformity, the light engine appears brighter as well.

If these rgb laser projectors do even a 15k:1 dynamic with good gamma correction itll be a good looking image though. 10-20k:1 is much nicer looking than 1-2k... hell even 4-6k is(think va panel tvs with no local dimming and dlp projectors with good lenses have very good uniformity). And you're doing it with 3-4k calibrated lumens to start with which enables a very large screen or a very dark screen. Id imagine you would still adhere to the 25-30fl for hdr with projectors due to the lower contrast, however. Or Ive wondered, much like the qled tvs that can do 1k nits+ but only have a native/ansi contrast of 6k:1, if you used a very bright projector and madvrs tone mapping if you would get a very hdr image or if the low contrast would offset the highlights. Imagine using an older 1080p 3k lumen 3chip dlp with a dynamic iris on a smaller low gain screen with madvrs dtm, id imagine that would look very good.

I dont know that solid state 3rgb is a benefit to actual measured black levels with dlp though, it seems the opposite in reading about the .95 dmd led models, the uhp color wheel versions have a higher native contrast with a higher light output. Though those are leds and maybe its different with lasers being truly narrow band(1nm vs 50nm). Anyhow rgb laser dlp is definitely something I'm waiting patiently for, regardless of contrast it will enable us to have a very bright rec2020 calibrated image on a very low gain black screen(30fl on a 100" 0.25 gain screen) and really fight ambient light and reflective rooms, and in that case youre never getting jvc blacks anyway but you do get the strengths of dlp and the rgb light source.
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post #16 of 24 Old 12-31-2019, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Ya, really, rgb solid state dlp looks fantastic, really spectacular video rendering, its only major fault is black levels. The color ability and modulation transfer function already results in superb low level detail(shadows) its just lacking in dynamic range.

Heh, Id think a gray laser would just be a very dim white laser, unfortunately until the dual modulators or other designs find their way down to our price bracket if you want a lower black level and higher contrast your only option is dila or an oled tv. That or restricting light output and screen size and finding older .95 single chip models or dealing with the heat output and power consumption of 3chip models. even then only the .95 rgb led models have the expanded gamut and dont have the light output for hdr highlights, though the more saturated colors being perceived as brighter will help a bit. I think also due to the pure color wavelengths, the higher refresh rate, the lack of a color wheel and turning off the dmd between segments, and the uniformity, the light engine appears brighter as well.

If these rgb laser projectors do even a 15k:1 dynamic with good gamma correction itll be a good looking image though. 10-20k:1 is much nicer looking than 1-2k... hell even 4-6k is(think va panel tvs with no local dimming and dlp projectors with good lenses have very good uniformity). And you're doing it with 3-4k calibrated lumens to start with which enables a very large screen or a very dark screen. Id imagine you would still adhere to the 25-30fl for hdr with projectors due to the lower contrast, however. Or Ive wondered, much like the qled tvs that can do 1k nits+ but only have a native/ansi contrast of 6k:1, if you used a very bright projector and madvrs tone mapping if you would get a very hdr image or if the low contrast would offset the highlights. Imagine using an older 1080p 3k lumen 3chip dlp with a dynamic iris on a smaller low gain screen with madvrs dtm, id imagine that would look very good.

I dont know that solid state 3rgb is a benefit to actual measured black levels with dlp though, it seems the opposite in reading about the .95 dmd led models, the uhp color wheel versions have a higher native contrast with a higher light output. Though those are leds and maybe its different with lasers being truly narrow band(1nm vs 50nm). Anyhow rgb laser dlp is definitely something I'm waiting patiently for, regardless of contrast it will enable us to have a very bright rec2020 calibrated image on a very low gain black screen(30fl on a 100" 0.25 gain screen) and really fight ambient light and reflective rooms, and in that case youre never getting jvc blacks anyway but you do get the strengths of dlp and the rgb light source.

That is a good point on 3 laser giving you a very good rec2020 bright image on a black screen with low gain. Probably best for sports and living room application. My thoughts with adding a gray laser is allowing for better shadowing. When talking dynamic contrast for UST i think the only projector review i'v seen that had actual change between dynamic and native was the P1.

The Vava/xiaomi is at 2500-3000 native and 2500-3000 dynamic but they are still pulling an almost 3000 native with a .47 which nobody seems to think possible but yet i havent seen anybody really give a true explanation or a detailed video review. Maybe it has something to do with the ALPD 3.0 technology

I have the lg hu85la and getting about 1300 native contrast and 1300 dynamic contrast. Which is really disappointing. I'd really like to know how the VAVA that is 2500$ compared to the 6000$ lg is getting double the native contrast with the smaller .47 chip

but both the lg and chiq c8ut have no color wheel and true color dedicated lasers for RGB which does makes a difference but i dont know if its worth the loss in contrast.

Still waiting to hear from chiq about the native contrast number for the C8UT.
They told me they'll have a both at CES, might check it out.
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post #17 of 24 Old 12-31-2019, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercuryyy View Post
That is a good point on 3 laser giving you a very good rec2020 bright image on a black screen with low gain. Probably best for sports and living room application. My thoughts with adding a gray laser is allowing for better shadowing. When talking dynamic contrast for UST i think the only projector review i'v seen that had actual change between dynamic and native was the P1.

The Vava/xiaomi is at 2500-3000 native and 2500-3000 dynamic but they are still pulling an almost 3000 native with a .47 which nobody seems to think possible but yet i havent seen anybody really give a true explanation or a detailed video review. Maybe it has something to do with the ALPD 3.0 technology

I have the lg hu85la and getting about 1300 native contrast and 1300 dynamic contrast. Which is really disappointing. I'd really like to know how the VAVA that is 2500$ compared to the 6000$ lg is getting double the native contrast with the smaller .47 chip

but both the lg and chiq c8ut have no color wheel and true color dedicated lasers for RGB which does makes a difference but i dont know if its worth the loss in contrast.

Still waiting to hear from chiq about the native contrast number for the C8UT.
They told me they'll have a both at CES, might check it out.
I doubt the Vava is actually getting 2,500:1 native. Like I said earlier, the dynamic dimming is probably not able to be turned off fully. Other laser projectors have done this.
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I doubt the Vava is actually getting 2,500:1 native. Like I said earlier, the dynamic dimming is probably not able to be turned off fully. Other laser projectors have done this.
I agree on that part, but this still isn't a bad contrast number when comparing the the 6000$ lg hu85la which is giving 1300 for both native and dynamic
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This projector was just reviewed and tested. Very promising with a few issues.

https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/
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post #20 of 24 Old 06-20-2020, 10:06 PM
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This projector was just reviewed and tested. Very promising with a few issues.

https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blo...is-de-gregory/
After reading the review, I think I will wait for the Hisense triple laser version.
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post #21 of 24 Old 06-20-2020, 10:47 PM
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After reading the review, I think I will wait for the Hisense triple laser version.
That gamut is fantastic and the light output is ample.

Do you know what the calibrated light output of the hisense is?

Put this light source in a 0.95" dmd light path with a high quality lens and gamma corrected dimming and we'll have a real modern DLP projector. Expensive... but impressive.

1500 lumens is still a bit low for two chip for screens over 120", but 120" and under with the contrast improvement and gamut would be a perfect display.

Almost there ;]
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post #22 of 24 Old 06-29-2020, 11:32 AM
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After reading the review, I think I will wait for the Hisense triple laser version.
I was looking at the Hisense triple laser version also but this one seems to be around half the price (from different threads discussions) and with a better 2020 gamut coverage than the Hisense.
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post #23 of 24 Old 06-29-2020, 12:39 PM
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What I find interesting here is the fact that they are able to use an RGB laser without speckle according to the French tester and at the same time reach full P3++ doing so. The fact that is only outputs 1500 lumens after calibration is certainly disappointing though, and the 1500:1 contrast is also a DLP-related issue that will not be resolved until dual chips or a completely redesigned DLP chip is available. This particular model, only outputting 60Hz and stuttering as such on all 24Hz-material, is certainly not ready for prime time though... If only JVC or Sony could put such a light engine into one of their designs this might be quite interesting!

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post #24 of 24 Old 07-02-2020, 08:04 AM
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For me the biggest issue is the fixed 60hz output but their other projectors with similar architecture can do 24hz so I hope this can be fixed with firmware upgrades. For the other issues, there is no perfect projector, comparing price and issues this one besides the 60hz problem is better than anything else announced.
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