Switch to JVC from Sony 45ES? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 34 Old 01-11-2020, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Switch to JVC from Sony 45ES?

Hey all, would love to hear from anyone who formerly used a Sony such as 40ES, 45ES, 55ES and then upgraded to a JVC, and what your experience was in changes to contrast, black levels, color, brightness, overall PQ while watching films.

I'm thinking of going from my 45ES to a JVC DLA-X790R (RS540K). This is for 100% blu-rays, I am not doing 4k, so I want great SDR performance only. Screen is 135" wide for 2.39 and 118" wide for 1.85. I am expecting better blacks, but am concerned I will lose shadow detail compared to the Sony 45ES based on some test comparisons I've seen where it seems the JVC high contrast and deep blacks pushed some shadows into a much darker range where it is hard to see detail.

Thanks in advance for any experience you can share in switching to JVC from Sony.

Ross

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post #2 of 34 Old 01-11-2020, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ALRLIFE View Post
Sony 45ES's fans were much quieter than the JVC's fans in both modes.

I've moved from a Sony 45ES to a 295ES and that is one drawback; the increased fan noise. The 45ES was very quiet, but this is because the higher end 4K/eshift projectors generate more heat due to more video processing going on.
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post #3 of 34 Old 01-11-2020, 09:15 PM
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I moved from 40es to JVC x500. The contrast in dark movies and SF on the JVC is so much better. I found the Sony washed out a lot and made some movies unbearable. As long as you do some basic calibration on the jvc you should not lose any detail in shadows.

I liked my Sony, I love my x500!
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post #4 of 34 Old 01-11-2020, 09:39 PM
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I moved from the Sony 40ES to the JVC 950R/X600 and for me there was a pretty huge difference in contrast with the colours having a much bigger pop on screen. The lag was something I had to deal with a little bit, as the Sony was amazing on its lag response with my gaming needs. The projectors have gotten better with it in comparison to my old projector. Upgraded to the NX7 with a great (Cnd wise)Black Friday deal
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post #5 of 34 Old 01-11-2020, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invadergir View Post
I moved from the Sony 40ES to the JVC 950R/X600 and for me there was a pretty huge difference in contrast with the colours having a much bigger pop on screen. The lag was something I had to deal with a little bit, as the Sony was amazing on its lag response with my gaming needs. The projectors have gotten better with it in comparison to my old projector. Upgraded to the NX7 with a great (Cnd wise)Black Friday deal


How’s the NX7 compare.


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post #6 of 34 Old 01-11-2020, 11:36 PM
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How’s the NX7 compare.


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It really shines with my 4K HDR content. It was always a bit hard to find a sweet spot with some movies like Kingsman: The Golden Circle. My projector would look great for the darker scenes or interior shots, but looked way blown out in the very bright and white mountain scenes. The Frame by Frame update helps greatly with that issue, but I do miss some of the inkier blacks I use to get with my 950R. Although my gaming lag seems better, and again the new HDR update works great for them as well in comparison. The 3D is on par if not at times better on the NX7 too, with less crosstalk sync issues I would experience in the first 5-10 minutes into some of my 3D movies. Although my sync was off sound wise while watching my German import of Spider-Man: Far From Home with my Oppo 203. Only one I have noticed it with so far, but worth noting. Never had sync issues with my 950R using same glasses and RF emitter. The one thing I do miss is my shutter opening and closing with me powering on/off the projector. That way I didn’t have to look back and make sure I had turned it off. I also bought myself a Spyder ProX and can’t wait to calibrate with it soon, to see an even bigger improvement possibly

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post #7 of 34 Old 01-12-2020, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post
Hey all, would love to hear from anyone who formerly used a Sony such as 40ES, 45ES, 55ES and then upgraded to a JVC, and what your experience was in changes to contrast, black levels, color, brightness, overall PQ while watching films.

I'm thinking of going from my 45ES to a JVC DLA-X790R (RS540K). This is for 100% blu-rays, I am not doing 4k, so I want great SDR performance only. Screen is 135" wide for 2.39 and 118" wide for 1.85. I am expecting better blacks, but am concerned I will lose shadow detail compared to the Sony 45ES based on some test comparisons I've seen where it seems the JVC high contrast and deep blacks pushed some shadows into a much darker range where it is hard to see detail.

Thanks in advance for any experience you can share in switching to JVC from Sony.

Ross
How far back from your screen do you sit, the reason I ask is that you might actually benefit from the switch to 4K either by e-shift or Native 4K. I made the switch from the HW45 (which I still have as a backup) to a Epson 9400 (6050) and whilst I didn’t notice much difference between them apart from brightness and slightly better blacks when watching 1080p contain it was when I switched to 4K material that the difference between them was most noticeable.

My suggestion is don’t dismiss the benefits of 4K.

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post #8 of 34 Old 01-12-2020, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the feedback everyone, it sounds like most of you have definitely noticed better contrast and blacks going to JVC. I think my Sony 45ES throws a beautiful image on films with outdoor scenes and brightly lit interiors, but in dimmer scenes it looks grayish and flat and lacks snap.

@Luminated67 , I'm not dismissing the benefits of 4k material, rather I am intentionally avoiding them. I have a library of more than 2,000 blu-rays that I am continuing to enjoy. The first time I view a 4k source I will immediately be spoiled and will never want to watch a standard blu-ray again (that's how my personality works), thus I would waste a huge investment in blu-ray discs. I am thoroughly content with my 1080p source material until I retire in six years and I am choosing to remain with SDR content only. Yes I know, my stance is heresy on these forums LOL 😆.

Ross

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post #9 of 34 Old 01-12-2020, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post
Thank you for the feedback everyone, it sounds like most of you have definitely noticed better contrast and blacks going to JVC. I think my Sony 45ES throws a beautiful image on films with outdoor scenes and brightly lit interiors, but in dimmer scenes it looks grayish and flat and lacks snap.

@Luminated67 , I'm not dismissing the benefits of 4k material, rather I am intentionally avoiding them. I have a library of more than 2,000 blu-rays that I am continuing to enjoy. The first time I view a 4k source I will immediately be spoiled and will never want to watch a standard blu-ray again (that's how my personality works), thus I would waste a huge investment in blu-ray discs. I am thoroughly content with my 1080p source material until I retire in six years and I am choosing to remain with SDR content only. Yes I know, my stance is heresy on these forums LOL 😆.

Ross
The 1080p can be upscaled to 4K.
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post #10 of 34 Old 01-13-2020, 12:35 PM
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I went from the Sony 40ES to JVC x570 a couple years ago. Initially, I was disappointed because I couldn't get it to look as good as my Sony! However, after I had Chad B calibrate the x570, bought the UB-820, and began purchasing UHD discs, everything came to life. The WCG from HDR content is the biggest differentiator IMO.

I've also become spoiled by the deeper blacks. I recently watched the controversial Game of Thrones season 8 episode (the one where you couldn't see anything because it was too dark) on UHD and it was MUCH better than the original broadcast. Despite being entirely night scenes, everything was clear to see without being washed out. I don't believe that would have been the case with the Sony and standard bluray. Speaking of which, standard blurays looks substantially better on the x570 as well. I'm a big fan of Black Sails and the beach scenes are gorgeous. You'd think they were native 4k in some cases.
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post #11 of 34 Old 01-13-2020, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hokieirish View Post
I went from the Sony 40ES to JVC x570 a couple years ago. Initially, I was disappointed because I couldn't get it to look as good as my Sony! However, after I had Chad B calibrate the x570, bought the UB-820, and began purchasing UHD discs, everything came to life. The WCG from HDR content is the biggest differentiator IMO.

I've also become spoiled by the deeper blacks. I recently watched the controversial Game of Thrones season 8 episode (the one where you couldn't see anything because it was too dark) on UHD and it was MUCH better than the original broadcast. Despite being entirely night scenes, everything was clear to see without being washed out. I don't believe that would have been the case with the Sony and standard bluray. Speaking of which, standard blurays looks substantially better on the x570 as well. I'm a big fan of Black Sails and the beach scenes are gorgeous. You'd think they were native 4k in some cases.
Thanks okieirish. Before Chad calibrated, in what ways was the picture of your JVC at first not as satisfying as your 40ES? Did you find deep shadow detail to be crushed before calibration? How was the color brightness?

Ross

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post #12 of 34 Old 01-13-2020, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post
Thanks okieirish. Before Chad calibrated, in what ways was the picture of your JVC at first not as satisfying as your 40ES? Did you find deep shadow detail to be crushed before calibration? How was the color brightness?

Ross
My biggest issue was motion looked terrible. The Reality Creation in the Sony allowed me to fine tune it so that I got motion to look great. On the JVC, there are only 3 options for frame interpolation: off, low, and high. Off was full of judder and the other two had the soap opera effect. After calibration, I have frame interpolation on low and it's perfect. Looks better than my $2000 Sony TV (which admittedly has not been calibrated).

Shadow detail was not great out of the box. I could tweak the settings to improve it, but that washed out the blacks. Post-calibration I have deep blacks and excellent shadow detail. No complaints whatsoever.

HDR was also pretty terrible out of the box, but that was before I got the UB820 and switched to SDR2020 (which is fantastic!).

Color brightness initially was excellent, however, I have a completely light-controlled room with black walls/ceiling.
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post #13 of 34 Old 01-13-2020, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post
Thank you for the feedback everyone, it sounds like most of you have definitely noticed better contrast and blacks going to JVC. I think my Sony 45ES throws a beautiful image on films with outdoor scenes and brightly lit interiors, but in dimmer scenes it looks grayish and flat and lacks snap.

@Luminated67 , I'm not dismissing the benefits of 4k material, rather I am intentionally avoiding them. I have a library of more than 2,000 blu-rays that I am continuing to enjoy. The first time I view a 4k source I will immediately be spoiled and will never want to watch a standard blu-ray again (that's how my personality works), thus I would waste a huge investment in blu-ray discs. I am thoroughly content with my 1080p source material until I retire in six years and I am choosing to remain with SDR content only. Yes I know, my stance is heresy on these forums LOL 😆.

Ross
As already mentioned you can upscale 1080P very successfully. Here’s a selection of images all upscales from 1080P

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eycikkh7ze...%2010.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/raf1eos3wi...%2056.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i44bshdyxs...%2048.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h3x6127jkp...%2024.jpg?dl=0

Also mentioned the importance of calibration, people dismiss this but I found the improvement quite marked, especially after watching the calibrated image for a few weeks and switching back.... the added detail in the shadows and colours and much more believable.
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post #14 of 34 Old 01-13-2020, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hokieirish View Post
My biggest issue was motion looked terrible. The Reality Creation in the Sony allowed me to fine tune it so that I got motion to look great. On the JVC, there are only 3 options for frame interpolation: off, low, and high. Off was full of judder and the other two had the soap opera effect. After calibration, I have frame interpolation on low and it's perfect. Looks better than my $2000 Sony TV (which admittedly has not been calibrated).

Shadow detail was not great out of the box. I could tweak the settings to improve it, but that washed out the blacks. Post-calibration I have deep blacks and excellent shadow detail. No complaints whatsoever.

HDR was also pretty terrible out of the box, but that was before I got the UB820 and switched to SDR2020 (which is fantastic!).

Color brightness initially was excellent, however, I have a completely light-controlled room with black walls/ceiling.
Sounds like I better count on getting a professional calibration if I get the JVC. I thought my 45ES looked really good out of the box, especially with shadow detail. I don't like frame interpolation for movies and find my Sony handles motion well with FI off and lag reduction on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
As already mentioned you can upscale 1080P very successfully. Here’s a selection of images all upscales from 1080P

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eycikkh7ze...%2010.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/raf1eos3wi...%2056.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i44bshdyxs...%2048.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h3x6127jkp...%2024.jpg?dl=0

Also mentioned the importance of calibration, people dismiss this but I found the improvement quite marked, especially after watching the calibrated image for a few weeks and switching back.... the added detail in the shadows and colours and much more believable.
Thanks for showing the pics. In Tom Norton's test (Sounds & Vision) of the DLA-X790R he found that 1080P blu-rays looked a bit sharper with the 4K e-shift turned off. Looks like your Epson does a nice job of upscaling to 4k.

Ross

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post #15 of 34 Old 01-13-2020, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hokieirish View Post
On the JVC, there are only 3 options for frame interpolation: off, low, and high. Off was full of judder and the other two had the soap opera effect. After calibration, I have frame interpolation on low and it's perfect. Looks better than my $2000 Sony TV (which admittedly has not been calibrated).
How does calibration affect motion, that should make no difference...?

I agree the Soap Opera Effect in CMD on these JVC's is too strong, nothing can be done to change that.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hokieirish View Post
On the JVC, there are only 3 options for frame interpolation: off, low, and high. Off was full of judder and the other two had the soap opera effect. After calibration, I have frame interpolation on low and it's perfect. Looks better than my $2000 Sony TV (which admittedly has not been calibrated).
How does calibration affect motion, that should make no difference...?
Completely agree with you. It shouldn't. It made a huge difference though. I have no explanation for why.
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Originally Posted by hokieirish View Post
Completely agree with you. It shouldn't. It made a huge difference though. I have no explanation for why.
What model number JVC? There was a bug that turned on CMD on one of the older models, even when CMD was showing off in the menu.
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post #18 of 34 Old 01-14-2020, 05:11 PM
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He has the jvc x570 or rs420.

In my case, I had various Sony models, but not the 40 or 45ES. HW65 was the last one but other than brightness, contrast is still a weakness comparing to my ChadB calibrated R500.

After calibration, 4k was the major improvement. I originally went for a low price Sony x800 but returned to BB and bit the bullet to get the Panny 820 and then the 420 (for family room). BTW, I did compare to the RS400 which is not as bright or as dark, also calibrated by ChadB. However, it is still better in contrast than the HW65.

Sony's color is better and quieter, as well as faster HDMI handshake than JVC. However, the picture seems to be noisier. The cheaper HW series do not have electrical lens cover, unlike the VW series such as VW85.

I've no regrets with JVC in general. They both have their strengths and weakness. I thought the old RS20 was the pinnacle of contrast but this one is nice and bright even in low lamp (noisy in high). Upscaling of Oblivion Blu-ray is a treat.

Only got 3 4k UHD's so far, Aquaman, Infinity War and Atomic Blonde. I streamed The Expanse and Jack Ryan 4k from Amazon.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonbud0 View Post
He has the jvc x570 or rs420.

In my case, I had various Sony models, but not the 40 or 45ES. HW65 was the last one but other than brightness, contrast is still a weakness comparing to my ChadB calibrated R500.

After calibration, 4k was the major improvement. I originally went for a low price Sony x800 but returned to BB and bit the bullet to get the Panny 820 and then the 420 (for family room). BTW, I did compare to the RS400 which is not as bright or as dark, also calibrated by ChadB. However, it is still better in contrast than the HW65.

Sony's color is better and quieter, as well as faster HDMI handshake than JVC. However, the picture seems to be noisier. The cheaper HW series do not have electrical lens cover, unlike the VW series such as VW85.

I've no regrets with JVC in general. They both have their strengths and weakness. I thought the old RS20 was the pinnacle of contrast but this one is nice and bright even in low lamp (noisy in high). Upscaling of Oblivion Blu-ray is a treat.

Only got 3 4k UHD's so far, Aquaman, Infinity War and Atomic Blonde. I streamed The Expanse and Jack Ryan 4k from Amazon.
A sony calibrated to Rec709 and a JVC calibrated to Rec709 should be identical in color. Of course the JVC in HDR mode will have better color, since the Sony projectors you had, did not do HDR. As for HDMI sync, the Sony 1080P projectors will have faster sync than Sony or JVC 4K projectors. But the current current model Sony 4K projectors are slightly faster than the current JVC's with sync time.
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post #20 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 03:37 AM
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I had a Sony 40ES since it first came out. After about a year I bought an eeColor 3dLUT box and calibrated it with the help of Ted Aspiotis. I was quite happy with it, although the blacks and shadows were always lacking. In 2019 I purchased a JVC RS1000, and thought it was good out-of-the-box. I did have it calibrated by Chad B. The JVC took care of the blacks and shadow issues. I'm very happy with it, both SDR and UHD are great, with HDR being the big step up. I'm using a 134" Carada Brilliant White screen, probably 1.0 or 1.1 gain, and sit 12' away. My throw is 17'. With SDR the fan is always on low and cannot be heard. With UHD it is on high and is about the same as my 40ES on high. I made the move because I was interested in 4K and HDR. If you are not interested in either of these I would wait until you are. Not to say SDR is not an improvement on the JVC, because it is an improvement. It's just a lot to spend and not enjoy 4K and HDR.
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post #21 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 09:12 AM
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CMD Low is somewhat bareable for 60hz content, but for 24p it looks like everyone is floating around, SOE is so strong.

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post #22 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonbud0 View Post
In my case, I had various Sony models, but not the 40 or 45ES. HW65 was the last one but other than brightness, contrast is still a weakness comparing to my ChadB calibrated R500.

Sony's color is better and quieter, as well as faster HDMI handshake than JVC. However, the picture seems to be noisier. The cheaper HW series do not have electrical lens cover, unlike the VW series such as VW85.

I've no regrets with JVC in general. They both have their strengths and weakness. I thought the old RS20 was the pinnacle of contrast but this one is nice and bright even in low lamp (noisy in high).
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've read quite a few people and reviewers saying the Sonys have nice color out of the box and that's been my experience, I have not felt the need to pay for a pro calibration.

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Originally Posted by Tom899 View Post
I had a Sony 40ES since it first came out. After about a year I bought an eeColor 3dLUT box and calibrated it with the help of Ted Aspiotis. I was quite happy with it, although the blacks and shadows were always lacking. In 2019 I purchased a JVC RS1000, and thought it was good out-of-the-box. I did have it calibrated by Chad B. The JVC took care of the blacks and shadow issues. I'm very happy with it, both SDR and UHD are great, with HDR being the big step up. I'm using a 134" Carada Brilliant White screen, probably 1.0 or 1.1 gain, and sit 12' away. My throw is 17'. With SDR the fan is always on low and cannot be heard. With UHD it is on high and is about the same as my 40ES on high. I made the move because I was interested in 4K and HDR. If you are not interested in either of these I would wait until you are. Not to say SDR is not an improvement on the JVC, because it is an improvement. It's just a lot to spend and not enjoy 4K and HDR.
Thank you, I hear your point about not spending the money to upgrade unless I'm ready to take advantage of 4k also. The last couple days I've been experimenting with 145" wide on 2.39:1 films at 12' viewing distance and am really pleased with the 45ES on high lamp. I do still desire the deeper blacks but that did not stop me from becoming totally immersed in the movies. I'm going to think on this a few more days before dropping the money on a new projector. I've also been craving a custom Seymour CIA AT screen with magnetic masking panels and that might be a better upgrade right now.

Ross
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post #23 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 11:38 AM
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@rossandwendy

1. The JVC RS500 1080p was fine. 4k needs professional calibration, IMO.

2. My screen is a Carada 1.1 or 1.3 gain at 120", sitting 15' away. At low lamp, both the Sony HW65 (essentially the 45ES with an iris) and JVC are bright running at low lamp. Both are noisier at high, especially the JVC to my surprise.

Actually I was not planning to buy the RS500 for its faux-4k other than the brightness over the JVC RS45. However, like going from DVD to Blu-ray, it's a video disease or addiction here. I ended up doing the whole life cycle upgrade to a Monoprice Premium 4k cables, 4k AVR and 2 4k players. The only reason I did not upgrade to a larger screen is that we're planning to downsize this year.
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post #24 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 11:53 AM
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I had a Sony 45ES and recently upgraded to a JVC NX5. I'm more than pleased with my purchase. Deeper blacks, better contrast, richer colors, and sharper image. Definitely worth the upgrade. I understand your stance on 4k, but you can catch plenty of 4k UHD Blu Ray sales and stream in 4k as well.

If you're going to upgrade, might as well jump to 4k, otherwise I'd keep the Sony 45ES since it's a great 1080p PJ. So you may not be as impressed with something else that's not native 4k.
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post #25 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 07:47 PM
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How is the motion on the NX5?
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post #26 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 08:08 PM
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If you have dedicated HT room, totally dark, like velvet on the walls and ceiling, not a single light ON during movie time, then go with JVC X790. If not, stay with the Sony 45ES. You won't see the benefit of the JVC blacks/contrast unless your room is a bat cave. I made the huge mistake to go from Sony 40ES to 295ES to RS2000 in my non dedicated living room and never enjoyed the picture. After 17 years owning projectors decided to sell my projection setup and went with a Sony 77A9G OLED and at this point I can say that I'm never going back to a projection setup unless I have a bat cave. Just my 2 cents.
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post #27 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 09:08 PM
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Just added my 4th UHD disks, a triple-dipped Alien (DVD and BR). We all know this is a dark movie but no one could hear you scream in a bat cave either.
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post #28 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
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How is the motion on the NX5?
Motion is fine on all JVC's for 60hz, but pretty much always has been. The issues are in 24p, as with all devices. Really the only way to achieve good motion in 24p is with some processing. I'm guessing the Sonys with FI in Low modes are going to have less SOE than even the NX-5 for 24p content, but I don't know and you'd have to ask Mike Garrett that question.

I don't like most CMD implementations, the best one I've seen thus far was on the much older JVC's. Though it did have some artifacts (there were 4 modes I believe + inverse telecine), one of the modes was very watchable for 24p content. I didn't use it that often or for all movies, but Kung fu type stuff or heavy heavy action I find that motion can look bad in action movies on projectors for 24p.

Honestly, I'd have to test it all again to remember exactly, but even all the DLP's I had the CMD effect looked too SOE except on that one old JVC. Enabling it was a trade-off though, but sometimes the trade-off was more than worth it.

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post #29 of 34 Old 01-15-2020, 11:10 PM
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Did you have ambient light coming from the same direction as the projector? Were you using a white screen? White screens are very unforgiving with any level of ambient light in a room. However, I can use my ALR screens with lamps on with white walls and stiil have solid black levels in the evenings.

I agree about the Sony 77" oled. It has the best picture quality out of any TV I've seen in person. And the older I get, the pickier I am about picture quality. I hate a washed out picture. And I also hate when people use the term "watchable picture" for washed out images from projectors during daytime use.
I had a 92" Stewart StudioTek 100 which is a very unforgiven material if you have even a small amount of light but it's the only material with zero artifacts and I'm too picky/ocd with video. I had my screen inside a niche all covered with Fidelio Black Velvet and while it improved the contrast perception still wasn't even close to what I get now with Sony 77A9G OLED. Also not a big fan of watching movies in a totally dark room so OLED is the way to go for me from now on.
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post #30 of 34 Old 01-16-2020, 06:13 AM
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I've a similar niche area in the family room which is strictly verbotten by DW; I got the living room/bat cave to myself. I would have to set up in the FR but that is not negotiable, until the next house. The saga continues...
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