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post #31 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
I guess it's subjective based on some factors i won't know till i have the space basement completed. I think I would prioritize picture quality for movie night #1 followed closely by still looking good while entertaining (with ambient or partial lighting on in other sides of the room). I would say movies, netflix, etc 75% use, sports 25% but pretty equally important to me.

Sounds like its JVC for the win for picture quality. Ive heard this from multiple sources, now. I just need to see if its brightness is good enough for my close 2nd priority..
it's going to depend on how much you decide to control the lighting in the room and projector usage. The JVC is ~1700 lumens in high lamp and will drop off within the first few hundred hours of operation as is the case with all lamp based projectors.

Since movies, netflix is @ 75%, maybe start with the JVC and see how it does in the room setup with ambient light. You can always add an inexpensive laser DLP like the Optoma ZH403, ~$1250 for 4000 lumens that you can leave on like a TV.

I have a dual projector setup in my room, JVC + DLP. I prefer not to burn up the JVC lamp hours on anything other than lights out viewing. It's a great setup to just turn on either projector depending on what we're doing in the room.
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post #32 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Given the unfinished nature of the room, it's going to need paint anyways. From the OP, it seemed like a bright room setup, was what was being proposed. In such a room a high contrast, but dimmer projector will lose it's key advantage over a lower cost, but brighter laser projector.

Ya that's kinda where i'm at. If i decide to go projector over 85 lcd... Should i go brighter (epson/ laser) vs better contrast (JVC)

Ill need to hang a screen vs paint. I put a pvc chase in that back wall for running cords from media cabinet to tv and it i cant be having a 2" pvc hole showing in the middle of my picture...
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post #33 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 12:15 PM
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I would put as much work into making the room 'dual purpose' as possible. There are a lot of options, and if you are a movie person at all and NOT only sports, then I think a better room is worth the fuss.

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post #34 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I would put as much work into making the room 'dual purpose' as possible. There are a lot of options, and if you are a movie person at all and NOT only sports, then I think a better room is worth the fuss.

A blackout curtain wall for the window wall is all it would take. Paint was already going dark walls, trim and ceiling. Im just worried about how it'll function for get togethers with partial lighting.

Need some pics guys!

Or anyone wanna show off their setup, that is near southern indiana?
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post #35 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
Ya that's kinda where i'm at. If i decide to go projector over 85 lcd... Should i go brighter (epson/ laser) vs better contrast (JVC)

Ill need to hang a screen vs paint. I put a pvc chase in that back wall for running cords from media cabinet to tv and it i cant be having a 2" pvc hole showing in the middle of my picture...
I'd start with the laser and then add the JVC, if needed. The JVC/Epsons are easier to place, and can go directly behind and below the laser PJ, for example, but not the other way round. Try to make the screen as large as possible. You've got 11.5ft width and that could support a 150in screen, which has 1.55 times as much screen area as a 120in screen, and it's screen size that really creates a wow! factor for the audience.
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post #36 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
A blackout curtain wall for the window wall is all it would take. Paint was already going dark walls, trim and ceiling. Im just worried about how it'll function for get togethers with partial lighting.

Need some pics guys!

Or anyone wanna show off their setup, that is near southern indiana?
Go to Pinterest and type home theater, or look in the custom builds thread here in the forum.

I agree aesthetics is a tricky issue when it comes to dark rooms. I gave up on aesthetics years ago for the trade off of having a perfect bat cave.

I even covered the smoke detector, but I know it still works because it went off on the other side of the house when i left boiling water on and fell asleep. I got woken up by the loudest smoke detector I've ever heard in my life, I jumped awake ran for the door to see what was going on...

Smack face into the door, straight to the emergency room and now stitches and all.

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post #37 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
A blackout curtain wall for the window wall is all it would take. Paint was already going dark walls, trim and ceiling. Im just worried about how it'll function for get togethers with partial lighting.

Need some pics guys!

Or anyone wanna show off their setup, that is near southern indiana?
You can use brighter paint on the walls: It's cheap and easy to add curtain rods and black drapes on the interior walls, and keep them open and tied off, for a bright room, and closed for a dark theatre room.
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post #38 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Go to Pinterest and type home theater, or look in the custom builds thread here in the forum.

I agree aesthetics is a tricky issue when it comes to dark rooms. I gave up on aesthetics years ago for the trade off of having a perfect bat cave.

I even covered the smoke detector, but I know it still works because it went off on the other side of the house when i left boiling water on and fell asleep. I got woken up by the loudest smoke detector I've ever heard in my life, I jumped awake ran for the door to see what was going on...

Smack face into the door, straight to the emergency room and now stitches and all.
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
You can use brighter paint on the walls: It's cheap and easy to add curtain rods and black drapes on the interior walls, and keep them open and tied off, for a bright room, and closed for a dark theatre room.
Thanks but this is all a moot point. I was already going navy walls and trim and half the ceiling....even with an LCD. Going for different vibe down there. More bar/ lounge vs the rest of my house.
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post #39 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
Its about 11-1/2' wide. Enough to place a 16:9 120" screen and my flanked by my two tower speakers on each side. I guess i could pull it forward in front of the boxed in beam, but I've go the nook setup for led tape accent lighting framing the screen which i would hate to loose.


Thank you for your advice, its been super helpful.
My wall is 12' wide and I have my 120" screen centered left to right with space left for my towers flanking it.

I would double think the LED lighting. It looks cool in pictures, but to me it's just a "show-off" thing for your friends and may get some "That looks bad-ass, man" comments during a party, but otherwise... It's going to be distracting in real life use while viewing and you would definitely never want to use it when watching a movie. My ES screen came with an LED edge lighting kit and we did not install it.

I actually have the lights on my DirecTV receiver and IR repeater receiver covered and am probably going to cover the LED on my Apple TV. Fortunately the front panel on my Yamaha receiver is very dim and amber so it is not distracting.

Just my .02
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post #40 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
Thank you for your advice, its been super helpful.
An 120" screen is 104.6"/8.71' wide, the projected area. http://screen-size.info/
Might have extra on the sides, like a black border.

A matte grey screen can usually help with ambient light in a small amount, but with that environment it's too little.

The Silver Ticket fabric that is ALR and has 1.5 gain (called Silver) is actually 1.0 gain, similar to the Cinegrey 5D.
The most budget option would be to buy just the fabric and mount it on a wooden frame. Total would be around 300$.
A better ALR fabric would be the Pulsar from DES. Having it framed by the company would cost double. About a third of the projector cost.

While this is one the best solution it's also one people don't like to do, painting. There are special paint mixes that can have ALR properties and can be customized to your setup. One of the most popular is Silver Fire but there are others. There are threads for the mixes, but it's best to make a new thread here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/


A JVC is the better option for PQ, and with an ALR 120"screen it's bright enough for sports with some ambient light.

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Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
A blackout curtain wall for the window wall is all it would take. Paint was already going dark walls, trim and ceiling. Im just worried about how it'll function for get togethers with partial lighting.

Need some pics guys!

Or anyone wanna show off their setup, that is near southern indiana?
I did post this earlier, how screens behave in different ambient light scenarios:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58809924
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...lr-review.html

Some examples of painted walls:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...l#post46962857

Last edited by noob00224; 01-19-2020 at 04:42 PM.
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post #41 of 154 Old 01-20-2020, 10:41 AM
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Have you considered a UST laser projector and CLR/ALR screen? You can go up to 120" and if you can do some light control, they perform reasonably well with some ambient light, like lamps, with bright and colorful content(like The Super Bowl/Sports in-general). I can even turn on the large torchier type lamp with a 100-150 watt lamp that bounces off the white ceiling and it's still fine/watchable. And with the projector being so close to the screen, you don't have to worry about people walking between it and the screen casting shadows.

LG CineBeam HU85/Elite Screens UST CLR/ALR Screen(.6 gain)
That is mighty impressive........
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post #42 of 154 Old 01-20-2020, 11:00 PM
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Just for reference, here's a UHD52ALV (3500 lumen max) 4K DLP being projected onto a 200in screen:

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post #43 of 154 Old 01-21-2020, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
Have you considered a UST laser projector and CLR/ALR screen? You can go up to 120" and if you can do some light control, they perform reasonably well with some ambient light, like lamps, with bright and colorful content(like The Super Bowl/Sports in-general). I can even turn on the large torchier type lamp with a 100-150 watt lamp that bounces off the white ceiling and it's still fine/watchable. And with the projector being so close to the screen, you don't have to worry about people walking between it and the screen casting shadows.

LG CineBeam HU85/Elite Screens UST CLR/ALR Screen(.6 gain)

1st pic: Football with 2-3 lamps on and some Christmas lights

2nd & 3rd pics: Bright/colorful content with east facing bay window directly opposite with curtains closed then open mid-afternoon cloudy day(I never watch like this)

For movies/darker content, you want it as dark as possible and I'll generally turn all lights in the room off and all curtains & blinds will be closed(if during the day, night doesn't matter as much)
Man, coming back to this after doing some reading...it looks really promising! I wasn't really concerned with setup or install but with this guy that's gone too. Do wish it was black, and I don't need the speaker...but you cant have it all i guess. Main drawback for me looks to be the white blob where my center channel speaker needs to sit. (RP 440C)

Is this in your main tv watching area? Do you use it for most of your general viewing? Any complaints? How does it look upscaling cable? I see its not native 4k but everything i'm reading at my seating distance is that won't be a noticeable difference. Any regrets over the lack of HDR?

Thanks!
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That is mighty impressive........
So far, I've been pleased with its performance.
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post #45 of 154 Old 01-21-2020, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
Man, coming back to this after doing some reading...it looks really promising! I wasn't really concerned with setup or install but with this guy that's gone too. Do wish it was black, and I don't need the speaker...but you cant have it all i guess. Main drawback for me looks to be the white blob where my center channel speaker needs to sit. (RP 440C)

Is this in your main tv watching area? Do you use it for most of your general viewing? Any complaints? How does it look upscaling cable? I see its not native 4k but everything i'm reading at my seating distance is that won't be a noticeable difference. Any regrets over the lack of HDR?

Thanks!
Yes, it is the main TV watching area and it's used for general TV viewing and for movies, shows and video games.

Upscaling HD from DirecTV: depends on the source material. Good quality content looks really good. It's not like watching SD on an HD set, HD looks at least as good as HD on an HD set. Sharp images will be sharp, fuzzy/soft images will be fuzzy/soft. MK 11 on my XBOX One looks absolutely incredible. Netflix and Amazon and YouTube on the built-in apps look great, as you would expect. AppleTV 4K looks great(Disney+, YouTube, FOX, etc. Actually haven't watched any Apple shows since getting this new one).

Yes, it is a pixel shifter, but reviews I've read say that LG says that every pixel (3840x2160) is 'addressable' and it only has to do one "shift". I don't know if I, or anyone else, could tell the difference between this and a similar class projector with a "non-pixel shifting" chip, outside of possibly test patterns. Sitting at 16.5"(a little far) it blows my old 92" HD set away.

LG calls it an HDR projector and when watching HDR content, it indicates as much and you can see the picture profile switch to one of the HDR profiles. Not getting into HDR specs... I've read that my 4K HDR(DolbyVision & HDR10) LG OLED is nowhere close to meeting "HDR specs", either, but both of them can get beyond bright enough to make my eyes hurt.

Complaints: Besides the white only case... Lining the image up with the screen can be frustrating. It is extremely sensitive to the slightest movement. If I stand within a foot or so of the cabinet that it's sitting on, the image moves. It may not be a big deal if you have solid flooring, but I have carpet in this room. It actually needs a very fine mechanical system to move it around instead of just nudging it around on top of a cabinet. When I turn the projector on, it boots up in the wrong picture profile, even though it indicates that it is in the correct one. I have a similar issue with my OLED set, coming out of HDR programming sometimes, where it indicates it's back in the normal profile I operate it in, but it's actually still in an HDR profile and it creates horrible banding with SDR content. Some people have said they have experienced "light leak" with theirs and some have said they have not. I have some, but I think it all depends on projector positioning and the focus adjustment as to how bad it is. I just readjusted mine tonight and I'm not currently seeing any, but I have before. If you play video games, you MUST use the GAME profile, otherwise input lag is beyond horrible and makes almost any type of game that requires even mediocre reaction time or proper timing to execute actions/moves impossible to play. It does have an option to turn on an "auto" feature for this, but I think my AVR is way too old to pass the communication between it and my XBOX. Some people have complained about the fan being loud(and others say it's quiet). To me, it sounds the same as the rear projection TV it just replaced, so it's a non-issue for me. AT any decent volume, you're not going to notice. It's white noise... The remote system is weird(magic remote) if you stick with the LG remote(I use a Harmony One). It can receive pretty much all commands via RF from the Magic Remote, except for ON & OFF. They are IR ONLY. You must point the remote at the projector and have the IR eye/sensor exposed. I ended buying an IR repeater for about $25 off of Amazon so I could put my center channel completely in front of it.

I know it sounds kind of like "Whoa, WTF?", but so far I really do like it and I don't regret buying it one bit. It works great for my set-up and environment. The only day-to-day annoying thing is the picture profile and to a lesser extent, the white color, but they should be able to fix the profile issue via firmware, if they want to and I covered the top of the projector in black felt and it's mostly behind the center, so it helps some. Considering it's my first foray into front projection, I give it an A-.
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post #46 of 154 Old 01-22-2020, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it is the main TV watching area and it's used for general TV viewing and for movies, shows and video games.

Upscaling HD from DirecTV: depends on the source material. Good quality content looks really good. It's not like watching SD on an HD set, HD looks at least as good as HD on an HD set. Sharp images will be sharp, fuzzy/soft images will be fuzzy/soft. MK 11 on my XBOX One looks absolutely incredible. Netflix and Amazon and YouTube on the built-in apps look great, as you would expect. AppleTV 4K looks great(Disney+, YouTube, FOX, etc. Actually haven't watched any Apple shows since getting this new one).

Yes, it is a pixel shifter, but reviews I've read say that LG says that every pixel (3840x2160) is 'addressable' and it only has to do one "shift". I don't know if I, or anyone else, could tell the difference between this and a similar class projector with a "non-pixel shifting" chip, outside of possibly test patterns. Sitting at 16.5"(a little far) it blows my old 92" HD set away.

LG calls it an HDR projector and when watching HDR content, it indicates as much and you can see the picture profile switch to one of the HDR profiles. Not getting into HDR specs... I've read that my 4K HDR(DolbyVision & HDR10) LG OLED is nowhere close to meeting "HDR specs", either, but both of them can get beyond bright enough to make my eyes hurt.

Complaints: Besides the white only case... Lining the image up with the screen can be frustrating. It is extremely sensitive to the slightest movement. If I stand within a foot or so of the cabinet that it's sitting on, the image moves. It may not be a big deal if you have solid flooring, but I have carpet in this room. It actually needs a very fine mechanical system to move it around instead of just nudging it around on top of a cabinet. When I turn the projector on, it boots up in the wrong picture profile, even though it indicates that it is in the correct one. I have a similar issue with my OLED set, coming out of HDR programming sometimes, where it indicates it's back in the normal profile I operate it in, but it's actually still in an HDR profile and it creates horrible banding with SDR content. Some people have said they have experienced "light leak" with theirs and some have said they have not. I have some, but I think it all depends on projector positioning and the focus adjustment as to how bad it is. I just readjusted mine tonight and I'm not currently seeing any, but I have before. If you play video games, you MUST use the GAME profile, otherwise input lag is beyond horrible and makes almost any type of game that requires even mediocre reaction time or proper timing to execute actions/moves impossible to play. It does have an option to turn on an "auto" feature for this, but I think my AVR is way too old to pass the communication between it and my XBOX. Some people have complained about the fan being loud(and others say it's quiet). To me, it sounds the same as the rear projection TV it just replaced, so it's a non-issue for me. AT any decent volume, you're not going to notice. It's white noise... The remote system is weird(magic remote) if you stick with the LG remote(I use a Harmony One). It can receive pretty much all commands via RF from the Magic Remote, except for ON & OFF. They are IR ONLY. You must point the remote at the projector and have the IR eye/sensor exposed. I ended buying an IR repeater for about $25 off of Amazon so I could put my center channel completely in front of it.

I know it sounds kind of like "Whoa, WTF?", but so far I really do like it and I don't regret buying it one bit. It works great for my set-up and environment. The only day-to-day annoying thing is the picture profile and to a lesser extent, the white color, but they should be able to fix the profile issue via firmware, if they want to and I covered the top of the projector in black felt and it's mostly behind the center, so it helps some. Considering it's my first foray into front projection, I give it an A-.
Thank you so much for the review!
The projector as a whole seems like it is near the top of my list of candidates. Have to say I am not impressed with booting up in the wrong profile issue.. that kind of stuff drives me nuts. But this isn't my main viewing area so i can probably over look that.

The form factor is great... but white...uggg! What were they thinking. I wonder if i could space my media console off the wall and build a shelf off the back of the cabinet for it to sit on down flush. I need the spot for my large center like you and don't want the huge white cleanex box hanging out on all my black media equipment.

Again thank you! This seems like it has landed in my top 2 alongside 85"LCD.

Could you possibly post a daylight picture?... no window treatment, full lights -just out of curiosity. (worse case scenario)

Really great to hear about the image quality and upscaling!

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post #47 of 154 Old 01-22-2020, 06:46 PM
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@purduesd The price of the LG CineBeam HU85 alone is over the 5k$ budget, not to mention the Elite Screens UST CLR ALR screen.
As it's mentioned in a previous post, UST projectors with good blacks run at 5K$ or higher. JVC blacks are superior to any UST's projector.

That CLR ALR (ceiling light reflecting) is best for ambient light from above the screen, less the sides. An Angular ALR screen can handle ambient light from all directions, except from the same direction as the projector.
Just because the type of ALR is CLR, does not mean it will handle ambient light any better than other ALR's, it's still a screen having light projected on it, the effect is similar.

A 5050UB and a DIY screen with ALR fabric will run 3K$ total.

A B stock NX5 and a DIY screen with DES Pulsar ALR fabric will run 4.5-5K$ total and will provide a much better experience than the HU85 from a picture quality perspective and with dealing with ambient light. Getting the Pulsar framed would raise the cost by ~800$.

LE:
There are plenty examples of ALR screens in ambient light, UST or anglular. Their effectiveness depends on the source and intensity of the ambient light. They may look great at first, but if you look at the black level/shadows that is where the image will be most affected by the ambient light.

Cameras can also affect how the screen looks like in real life versus a video:




This video is with a Dark Energy Screen. It works so well because the light is hitting it at an angle, not from the same direction as the projector:

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Last edited by noob00224; 01-22-2020 at 07:01 PM.
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post #48 of 154 Old 01-22-2020, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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@purduesd The price of the LG CineBeam HU85 alone is over the 5k$ budget, not to mention the Elite Screens UST CLR ALR screen.
As it's mentioned in a previous post, UST projectors with good blacks run at 5K$ or higher. JVC blacks are superior to any UST's projector.

That CLR ALR (ceiling light reflecting) is best for ambient light from above the screen, less the sides. An Angular ALR screen can handle ambient light from all directions, except from the same direction as the projector.
Just because the type of ALR is CLR, does not mean it will handle ambient light any better than other ALR's, it's still a screen having light projected on it, the effect is similar.

A 5050UB and a DIY screen with ALR fabric will run 3K$ total.

A B stock NX5 and a DIY screen with DES Pulsar ALR fabric will run 4.5-5K$ total and will provide a much better experience than the HU85 from a picture quality perspective and with dealing with ambient light. Getting the Pulsar framed would raise the cost by ~800$.

LE:
There are plenty examples of ALR screens in ambient light, UST or anglular. Their effectiveness depends on the source and intensity of the ambient light. They may look great at first, but if you look at the black level/shadows that is where the image will be most affected by the ambient light.

Cameras can also affect how the screen looks like in real life versus a video:
So in your opinion, the NX5 will out perform the LG NU85 in an ambient light situation? The JVC has 1000 less lumens...?

The RS540 was another consideration for me. Little brighter and better blacks. But no 4k. Ive read at 12-14' viewing distance it doesn't matter though.
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post #49 of 154 Old 01-22-2020, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
So in your opinion, the NX5 will out perform the LG NU85 in an ambient light situation? The JVC has 1000 less lumens...?

The RS540 was another consideration for me. Little brighter and better blacks. But no 4k. Ive read at 12-14' viewing distance it doesn't matter though.
The question is what is the best solution for this setup, for the required use: movies, netflix, etc 75% use, sports 25% but pretty equally important.

Can the NX5 do a good job in ambient light for sports? Yes. Is the LG better (in ambient light) with a CLR ALR screen? Probably yes. For the other 75% the NX5 would be better. Is it worth spending 6-7K$ for a UST setup that is somewhat better with lights on? That's your decision.

A 5050UB with the cheapest angular ALR fabric for the screen would probably be as good with black levels and ambient light (or better) than the LG UST + UST CLR setup, and it's half the price.

The RS540 is a 4K pixel shifter.
Regarding the brightness I don't think it's as bright as the NX5. Maybe @coderguy or someone more familiar with the JVC family can comment, but from review measurements it seems like the NX5 is brighter.

These measurements are taken at 100% zoom for the NX7 which is listed as 100 lumens brighter than the NX5 and RS520 which is listed with the same brightness as the RS540:






Using less than 100% of zoom results in a less bright image. For both of these models going from 100% to 0% zoom the light loss is about 27%.

The Pulsar I mentioned earlier and other angular ALR's should be placed at around 1.8x to 2.0x throw ratio (width of screen).
Long story short for an 120" screen to achieve 1.8x throw the required distance is 15.7' and 17.5' for 2.0x.
The zoom used to reach these throw ratios would result in a light loss of ~12% for the 1.8x throw and ~18% for the 2.0x.

The Pulsar ALR has a 1.2 gain, which means it reflects back 20% more light than it received. So it makes it up for the 2.0x throw or has more brightness with the 1.8x throw.

For some actual figures you take the lumen value from the measurements above and divide it by an 120" screens's square surface, which is
42.71 ft². So take HLG or Natural with ~1500 lumens on High lamp and 1000 lumens on Low.
1500 / 42.71 = 35.12fL
1000 / 42.71 = 23.41fL

Lamps do loose brightness over time., but 35 and 23 fL are bright enough to use in a room with controlled ambient light.
The Epson would be brighter.

I'm not going to post the brightness measurements for the LGHU85LA, but they are in the link below. Keep in mind that the Elite CLR ALR screen mentioned has a 0.6 gain, so multiply it by 0.6.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/LG-...tor-Review.htm

For instance, the brightest mode on Sports preset is ~3000 lumens.
3000 / 42.71 = 70fL x 0.6 (screen gain) = 42fL


DLP on the LG UST has an advantage that it handles motion better than the 3LCD on the Epson, but LCoS on the NX5 is also above 3LCD closer to DLP. Older JVC's have not so good motion handling.

Many Epson owers use their projectors for sports still. These videos are not perfect, shot at 30fps, but this is a comparison between a DLP on the left and 3CLD on the right.
In the second video the left is slower because it's a video game and DLP has higher input lag. If you really want to see a 3LCD in action you can call the stores/dealers nearby and schedule a test. Or they may already have it set up since the 5050UB is a popular model.


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post #50 of 154 Old 01-22-2020, 11:12 PM
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The LG has a laser source with an estimated life of 20 000 hours, in which time it will dim. JVC's UHP lamps will dim much quicker, and are more expensive than lamps from Epson for instance.

The CLR ALR 120" from Elite is expensive, about or more than half the price of the 5050UB.

If you go with Epson and are unhappy with the motion handling and want a DLP, I would personally even go for a dual projector setup:
Epson 5050UB + DIY ALR fabric for movies and a Optoma 406 (laser) or even Viewsonic PX747 4K (lamp) for sports. This combo would be about 5-5.5K$ vs ~6.5-7K with the LG UST + UST ALR.

35fL on the NX5 in High lamp (or ~39fL if the 1.8x throw with the 1.2 gain of the Pulsar ALR) vs 42fL on the LG is pretty close.

I would argue that even 23fL is bright enough (for sports) for a medium lit room, if the lights don't hit the screen directly, something like this:

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post #51 of 154 Old 01-23-2020, 12:44 PM
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If the Epson 5050 is shooting onto the same ALR screen as the LG, the Epson will have higher contrast and better black levels. The only advantage the LG will have is resolution. Also laser, but at some point the laser becomes a disadvantage. Just how likely you are to get to that point, is the question. For many, probably never, but if you are going to use it like a TV, then pretty good chance you get to that point.
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post #52 of 154 Old 01-23-2020, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone... I'm thinking of going 85" sony 950g
-Paired with a projector (maybe a JVC for the blacks) and drop down screen in front of the bulk head....

Does anyone make an acoustic transparent drop down? Manual would be fine. If so, i could Go 150"

My lcd tv setup will be similar to this... (with a screen dropping down in front of the whole setup.)
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post #53 of 154 Old 01-23-2020, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
Thank you everyone... I'm thinking of going 85" sony 950g
-Paired with a projector (maybe a JVC for the blacks) and drop down screen in front of the bulk head....

Does anyone make an acoustic transparent drop down? Manual would be fine. If so, i could Go 150"

My lcd tv setup will be similar to this... (with a screen dropping down in front of the whole setup.)
If talking woven, then the gain is low. Slightly under 1.0 at best. Large and low gain is not a good combination with most of these projectors.
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post #54 of 154 Old 01-23-2020, 06:20 PM
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@purduesd although different people have different preferences for how bright the image should be, 150" with the NX5 might be too much.
AT screens are usually at best 1.0 gain. An 150" 16:9 screen is 66.71 ft². With 1500 lumens for High lamp and 1000 for Low would result in 22fL and 15fL. Lamps dim with time. The general recommended brightness is 10-15fL for SDR and ~20fL for HDR with the NX5. In the dark, with lights off.
These values are on a 1.0 gain screen. Like Mike said an AT screen would be at best 1.0 gain. For an 0.8 gain it's 20% less brightness.

A positive gain ALR screen could be used to increase brightness. AT ALR screens exist, but an AT ALR drop down screen can get very expensive. An ALR screen would also require a 1.8x or so throw ratio, for an 150" screen it's 19.6' lens to screen.
For a screen this size maybe go with the 5050UB and a non ALR screen.

You could make a thread here or research the other threads maybe this topic has been discussed:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
If the Epson 5050 is shooting onto the same ALR screen as the LG, the Epson will have higher contrast and better black levels. The only advantage the LG will have is resolution. Also laser, but at some point the laser becomes a disadvantage. Just how likely you are to get to that point, is the question. For many, probably never, but if you are going to use it like a TV, then pretty good chance you get to that point.
How would the CLR screen react to front projection? I imagine it would be too dark?

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post #55 of 154 Old 01-23-2020, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
@purduesd although different people have different preferences for how bright the image should be, 150" with the NX5 might be too much.
AT screens are usually at best 1.0 gain. An 150" 16:9 screen is 66.71 ft². With 1500 lumens for High lamp and 1000 for Low would result in 22fL and 15fL. Lamps dim with time. The general recommended brightness is 10-15fL for SDR and ~20fL for HDR with the NX5. In the dark, with lights off.
These values are on a 1.0 gain screen. Like Mike said an AT screen would be at best 1.0 gain. For an 0.8 gain it's 20% less brightness.

A positive gain ALR screen could be used to increase brightness. AT ALR screens exist, but an AT ALR drop down screen can get very expensive. An ALR screen would also require a 1.8x or so throw ratio, for an 150" screen it's 19.6' lens to screen.
For a screen this size maybe go with the 5050UB and a non ALR screen.

You could make a thread here or research the other threads maybe this topic has been discussed:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/




How would the CLR screen react to front projection? I imagine it would be too dark?
To pair a CLR screen with an Epson 5050, you would need to table mount the 5050.
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post #56 of 154 Old 01-23-2020, 10:40 PM
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A Sony X950G is expensive.
An Optoma ZH406 is 60% cheaper. 1080p DLP laser, can accept 4K HDR10 and HLG. 4500 lumens, although in some modes it might be less, but still. 1.4 – 2.24 throw ratio.
On projectors the brightest mode can have a green tint, which on some models it's still watchable. A lower preset without the tint would probably have 3000 lumens.

Could be used on the 150" non ALR screen. 3000 / 66.71 = 45fL or 154nits
45fL on an 150" screen with controlled ambient light is much more enjoyable than a 85" TV.

In bright content like sports the darker tones the TV is capable would matter less.

Not sure how the Sony TV handles motion, but I assume the DLP is better, or just as good.

But if you want a brighter image that can fight ambient light better you could also make an 120" DIY screen behind the drop down screen. White fabric could be used, but better yet, ALR fabric. White fabric would have 3000 / 42.71 = 70fL / 239 nits. If the ALR is positive gain, like the Carl's ALR which claims 1.5 gain, then 70fL x 1.5 = 105fL / 359 nits.

239 and 359 nits on an 120" screen is BRIGHT.
The brightness setting on the projector might have to be lowered, or an ALR with a lower gain be used.

ZH406 + wooden frame + ALR fabric = 2K$, half the price of the Sony. It's brighter and has better motion.

The difference in size is not small. 85 vs 120 vs 150:
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post #57 of 154 Old 01-24-2020, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
On projectors the brightest mode can have a green tint, which on some models it's still watchable.
It's funny you mention that. When I was playing around with my HU85 just to see the brightness differences and I switched it from full output to medium, it went VERY GREEN. I was surprised the shift was that bad. It was almost like looking into an office and someone turning on fluorescent lights from the 80's/90's. When you're talking about a projector that costs over $5K, there should be some type of automatic compensation built-in to counteract that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
It's funny you mention that. When I was playing around with my HU85 just to see the brightness differences and I switched it from full output to medium, it went VERY GREEN. I was surprised the shift was that bad. It was almost like looking into an office and someone turning on fluorescent lights from the 80's/90's. When you're talking about a projector that costs over $5K, there should be some type of automatic compensation built-in to counteract that.
The green tint is for lamp based projectors, not sure if this is the case on on lasers. The issue with the HU85 and medium is probably a different kind of issue.

LE:
From the ZH403 review:
Bright mode showed a minor green shift, but less so than for most projectors' brightest modes. Colors in graphics were still eye-catching, but contrast was poor enough that it made photos look almost foggy and made graphics with black backgrounds look gray even in ambient light.

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post #59 of 154 Old 01-24-2020, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
A Sony X950G is expensive.
An Optoma ZH406 is 60% cheaper. 1080p DLP laser, can accept 4K HDR10 and HLG. 4500 lumens, although in some modes it might be less, but still. 1.4 – 2.24 throw ratio.
On projectors the brightest mode can have a green tint, which on some models it's still watchable. A lower preset without the tint would probably have 3000 lumens.

Could be used on the 150" non ALR screen. 3000 / 66.71 = 45fL or 154nits
45fL on an 150" screen with controlled ambient light is much more enjoyable than a 85" TV.

In bright content like sports the darker tones the TV is capable would matter less.

Not sure how the Sony TV handles motion, but I assume the DLP is better, or just as good.

But if you want a brighter image that can fight ambient light better you could also make an 120" DIY screen behind the drop down screen. White fabric could be used, but better yet, ALR fabric. White fabric would have 3000 / 42.71 = 70fL / 239 nits. If the ALR is positive gain, like the Carl's ALR which claims 1.5 gain, then 70fL x 1.5 = 105fL / 359 nits.

239 and 359 nits on an 120" screen is BRIGHT.
The brightness setting on the projector might have to be lowered, or an ALR with a lower gain be used.

ZH406 + wooden frame + ALR fabric = 2K$, half the price of the Sony. It's brighter and has better motion.

The difference in size is not small. 85 vs 120 vs 150:
Thank you so much for continuing to take the time to weigh in. I'm fairly well informed when it comes to OLED, LCD displays... projection obviously not so much.

The reason i'm here asking about projection is i cant buy an 85" OLED/ samsung q90. They don't make them. Honestly i prefer poppier image/color even if they aren't "accurate". I like the wow factor. I also really appreciate good black levels. Sony's 85 950g has great motion and super accurate color straight out of the box. Its black levels and light bleed on dark screen are my complaints. Samsung and LG beat Sony in black level, contrast and color, but in 82" and 77". Simply put, its the best 85" option out without getting into an 8K for stupid money.
**After direct comparison the drop in size for 85" to 82 or worse yet 77" is too big of a tradeoff for me.**

So I had a bunch of suggestions to look into projection. Ive learned a ton in a couple days but still have a ways to go...

I have only witnessed 2 projectors in person:

Sony VPL-VW295ES ( i think, it was a 4k for $5k)
120" White screen
Dark cinema room.
Looked really good, wouldn't say great.

Sony 1080p projector
Black Diamond ALR screen 90" -ish
Set up as a partially enclosed pass through room in the store, minimal to moderate ambient light (none coming from same direction as projector.)
- I was actually suprised how bright the image showed despite the conditions. But my thoughts were confirmed it looked like projection. The whites appear dirty and gray on the Black diamond screen. The lower end $2k 85" tv (edge lit sony 850g) on the wall out side the room destroyed the projection image quality in my opinion.

But i learned 2 things.
1. Bigger is better... the 4k Sony with light control on 120" white screen leaves me wanting that on movie night!
2. The sony i witnessed on an $4k ALR screen isn't going to cut it for me with ambient light

Now, i'm sure the Sony had bulb dim and isn't half as "brightness capable" as the optoma you're suggesting. But i'm not sure the ALR screens are gonna work for me. The dingy whites bother me. You mention it's brighter, which surprises me. But the contrast in an ambient light room won't match the TV. And the blacks are going to be washed out more than the TV also based on what i've seen in person, No? Maybe i'm just more of a TV guy -other than dark room viewing.

My budget isn't a hard line. I can piece the 2 setups together at different points as well which makes the stickers shock more bearable. I was thinking i'd start with the sony and pick up a projector and screen over the next couple months. I can pick up the Sony TV for less than your estimation. All in i will probably be approaching Sony's A9G price point (OLED and comes in 85") and hits all my marks. But i think id rather have the 120"-150" movie nights.

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post #60 of 154 Old 01-24-2020, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
If talking woven, then the gain is low. Slightly under 1.0 at best. Large and low gain is not a good combination with most of these projectors.
Thank you for the learning moment

I guess i will have to stick to a 120" white screen so i can fit my tower Speakers outside. Maybe have to sink my center channel down into a media cabinet instead of on top...

Unless i consider a brighter projector than the NX5 or similar JVC....


Stuff looks kinda silly sitting under my office 32"... but we're getting closer!
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