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post #1 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Projector performance for say... a Super Bowl party

I am nearing the final phase of my basement construction project Large Great room style with Tv viewing area flanked by a bar on one side and game room on the other. Up until this point I had been planning on an 85" LCD display. Recently i've received some advice that I am missing out on the potential of the space by overlooking projection.

My intended uses for the basement are a fairly even mix of daytime/ nighttime viewing. Lights dim or off for movies and surrounding lights on for parties and watching the game with people over. The lighting is zoned as such with dimmers everywhere.

The 9' ceiling side will have navy walls, ceiling, and trim. The other side is just under 8" and will have a white ceiling, navy walls and trim. The bar area will have a 55" display built into the upper cabinets. and the far end will house some pin ball, pop shot, air hockey etc.

I have very minimal experience being around projectors. One bachelor pad with crappy equipment and a showroom type home theater store. What is a reasonable expectation for a watching a basketball/ football game with with partial lights on? Say... like a superbowl party with kids running around, adults moving from bar to big screen etc.

I didn't want a theater room, and that's why i went open concept fully understanding the space wouldn't perform perfectly.


How would a projector/ 120" screen in the 5k budget perform against say a 85" 950g
-120 is about the max i could go.
- The projector can be 16/17' from screen.
I already have the avr and sound setup either way. 5.1.2
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post #2 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post

My intended uses for the basement are a fairly even mix of daytime/ nighttime viewing. Lights dim or off for movies and surrounding lights on for parties and watching the game with people over. The lighting is zoned as such with dimmers everywhere.

The 9' ceiling side will have navy walls, ceiling, and trim. The other side is just under 8" and will have a white ceiling, navy walls and trim. The bar area will have a 55" display built into the upper cabinets. and the far end will house some pin ball, pop shot, air hockey etc.
Hi, you can definitely make a projector work in that setup as long as you are willing to put light treatments on that massive wall of windows.

One option is a high brightness DLP laser projector + an ALR (abient light rejecting) screen. I have a dedicated HT room with a JVC and a media room with mixed viewing, mostly with ambient light that I use the Viewsonic laser projector. These are rated at 5000 lumens (~3500 calibrated) which is a nice amount of light when the room isn't dark. These use a laser vs a bulb and can last up to 30,000 hours so it can be used more like a TV vs worrying about replacing lamps.




if you can fit a 120" screen, it's going to look noticeably larger than the 85" TV. here is the scaled reference:


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post #3 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Hi, you can definitely make a projector work in that setup as long as you are willing to put light treatments on that massive wall of windows.

One option is a high brightness DLP laser projector + an ALR (abient light rejecting) screen. I have a dedicated HT room with a JVC and a media room with mixed viewing, mostly with ambient light that I use the Viewsonic laser projector. These are rated at 5000 lumens (~3500 calibrated) which is a nice amount of light when the room isn't dark. These use a laser vs a bulb and can last up to 30,000 hours so it can be used more like a TV vs worrying about replacing lamps.


if you can fit a 120" screen, it's going to look noticeably larger than the 85" TV. here is the scaled reference:
Yes, immersion is why i'm excited about the option. Contrast/ washed out picture with partial lighting is what I'm concerned with. I understand its gonna be a trade off.. but how big.

Anybody have any shots of under $5k projection in a party setting with partial lighting?
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post #4 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:02 PM
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If you control the lighting with blinds etc or watch mostly at night then BenQ ht3550 for $1500 is a great 4K projector. If you are gonna let in more light, you want a brighter projector like the BenQ TK850 4K projector. You give up some color and contrast going with brighter projector and not controlling the light, but that may be acceptable to you since you aren’t looking to make it theater-like.

Darker walls/ceiling/carpet will also help the picture, but may not be doable in the space you are going for.


Definitely get a fixed screen with velvet border if you have a wall to mount it on, as it will look a lot better. You can get a Silver Ticket one which has aluminum frame and wrapped in good velvet for a good price on amazon or you can spend more for a nicer one, but that shouldn’t be necessary. There are some screens that are ambient light rejecting tho which may help your situation if you don’t want to control the lighting.


In terms of doing it, definitely. Watching the game or movies or whatever on a projector screen is >>>> on a television.
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post #5 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:05 PM
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Yeah if you want to spend more than a laser projector would be great.


Your screen size will be limited by ceiling height. But you could go bigger than 120” if you do a 2.35:1 screen instead of 16:9 screen as it will be wider not taller.

However then it’ll have black bars on the sides for football so if tv/sports is your main use case then 16:9 would prolly be better.
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post #6 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:12 PM
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What I did was convert my garage into a theater. I had the rails for the doors and the openers taken down and then a wall built behind the garage doors so it looks normal from outside but looks like a 21’x21’ room with 10’ ceilings inside.

I have my theater seating about 17’ from the 150” screen and that gives us room to play vr (mounted Vive light boxes to the ceiling) in a 16’x14’ (large for vr) space and we have a ping pong table behind the seating that we can roll in to that area to play that.

So while the room has no windows or door and is painted charcoal so is great for movie or sports watching any time of day, with the lights on it’s our multi-purpose room that we spend most of our time in. My son and I are building a domino rally right now in here and the kids will run across the room while i throw them footballs when it’s raining out, etc. I think with light control you can have a great theater and a great multi-purpose space.
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post #7 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastrabbit19 View Post
If you control the lighting with blinds etc or watch mostly at night then BenQ ht3550 for $1500 is a great 4K projector. If you are gonna let in more light, you want a brighter projector like the BenQ TK850 4K projector. You give up some color and contrast going with brighter projector and not controlling the light, but that may be acceptable to you since you aren’t looking to make it theater-like.

Darker walls/ceiling/carpet will also help the picture, but may not be doable in the space you are going for.


Definitely get a fixed screen with velvet border if you have a wall to mount it on, as it will look a lot better. You can get a Silver Ticket one which has aluminum frame and wrapped in good velvet for a good price on amazon or you can spend more for a nicer one, but that shouldn’t be necessary. There are some screens that are ambient light rejecting tho which may help your situation if you don’t want to control the lighting.


In terms of doing it, definitely. Watching the game or movies or whatever on a projector screen is >>>> on a television.
Yes the room will be dark blue walls ceiling and trim on the tv side. With the window ceiling being white, dark walls and trim.

Yes i am open to curtains to block the doors/ windows for quality movie watching in the dark.

BUT i want decent quality image when lights are on in other areas or lights are on but dimmed... ie watching the game with a bunch of kids and friends.

Last edited by purduesd; 01-18-2020 at 12:21 PM.
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post #8 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
Yes the room will be dark blue walls ceiling and trim on the tv side. With the window side ceiling will being white, dark walls and trim.

Yes i am open to curtains to block the doors/ windows for quality movie watching in the dark.

BUT i want decent quality image when lights are on in other areas or lights are on but dimmed... ie watching the game with a bunch of kids and friends.
A bright laser projector and something like a S.I. Slate 1.2 / Stewart Firehawk / Seymour Screen Excellence Ambient - Visionaire 1.3 screen is probably your best bet. The Super Bowl is going to look a lot more exciting on a 120" diagonal screen !
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post #9 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:35 PM
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Yeah in your situation spend more for a bright laser 4K projector and ambient light rejecting screen.
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post #10 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
A bright laser projector and something like a S.I. Slate 1.2 / Stewart Firehawk / Seymour Screen Excellence Ambient - Visionaire 1.3 screen is probably your best bet. The Super Bowl is going to look a lot more exciting on a 120" diagonal screen !
Is there a good place to compare projectors? Like rtings.com is for TVs? Not sure where to start.
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post #11 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
Yes the room will be dark blue walls ceiling and trim on the tv side. With the window ceiling being white, dark walls and trim.

Yes i am open to curtains to block the doors/ windows for quality movie watching in the dark.

BUT i want decent quality image when lights are on in other areas or lights are on but dimmed... ie watching the game with a bunch of kids and friends.

here is a quick setup of my Viewsonic laser in a less than ideal scenario, tan painted walls, two 60watt lightbulbs shining directly against the wall. laser is at 50% power.

There are (16) 60 watt lights lit up in this room when I took the photo, it looks great in ambient light when I turn off that 1 lamp and leave all the others on. There is a ton of lumens left on tap if I max out the laser to 100%.



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post #12 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
here is a quick setup of my Viewsonic laser in a less than ideal scenario, tan painted walls, two 60watt lightbulbs shining directly against the wall. laser is at 50% power.

There are (16) 60 watt lights lit up in this room when I took the photo, it looks great in ambient light when I turn off that 1 lamp and leave all the others on. There is a ton of lumens left on tap if I max out the laser to 100%.
woah!
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post #13 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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What model viewsonic is that? @zombie10k
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Projector performance for say... a Super Bowl party

If brightness is a priority I would go Epson. 5050ub or 6050ub. Otherwise, laser is your best bet.
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post #15 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 01:08 PM
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What model viewsonic is that? @zombie10k
This is the projector with the MSRP price. street prices can't be discussed on the forum but if you shop around you can find it for a good bit less.

https://www.viewsonic.com/us/ls800wu.html

It also has excellent 3D capabilities which is a fun experience for guests.
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post #16 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the projector with the MSRP price. street prices can't be discussed on the forum but if you shop around you can find it for a good bit less.

https://www.viewsonic.com/us/ls800wu.html

It also has excellent 3D capabilities which is a fun experience for guests.
Thanks! That one is under the price point i was looking at..
JVC RS1000 or RS 540 were the ones i was initially comparing.
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post #17 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 01:52 PM
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Thanks! That one is under the price point i was looking at..
JVC RS1000 or RS 540 were the ones i was initially comparing.
The RS1000 and RS540 are close in maximum lumen output ~1600-1700 calibrated lumens in high lamp with a new bulb. depending on use that may not last long before it starts dimming.

That is 1/2 the output of the Laser DLP in it's calibrated mode (~3500). The brighest mode is over 4000 lumens and looks great with sports events. They are different projectors for different purposes. I think you will get more utility from a laser DLP that can be used like a TV without worrying about lamp replacements.

These are rated for 24/7 use and have used mine for 10+ hours at a time with no issues.
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post #18 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 02:09 PM
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Also check out the Optoma ZH403, ZH406, ZH506. ZH606 (all 1920x1080) and ZU506T (1920 x 1200)

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...-Road-Test.htm

https://www.projectorreviews.com/opt...jector-review/https://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf...spec_11050.pdf (ZH606)

These should have similar performance to the Viewsonic, but they can accept 4K HDR input and display 1080p HDR output.
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Also check out the Optoma ZH403, ZH406, ZH506. ZH606 (all 1920x1080) and ZU506T (1920 x 1200)

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...-Road-Test.htm

https://www.projectorreviews.com/opt...jector-review/https://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf...spec_11050.pdf (ZH606)

These should have similar performance to the Viewsonic, but they can accept 4K HDR input and display 1080p HDR output.
Those are good options as well, we are ordering the ZH406 soon for a conference room but will take it home for a week to see how it compares to the Viewsonic and also take a look at HDR content with it as well. I'll post some feedback once it arrives.

The .65 DC3 DMD still has plenty of life left in it
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I should have the JVC DLP laser projector here Monday. I'll try and shoot some screen shots on my 122" diagonal 16:9 screen with some lighting on.
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post #21 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 04:28 PM
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Have you considered a UST laser projector and CLR/ALR screen? You can go up to 120" and if you can do some light control, they perform reasonably well with some ambient light, like lamps, with bright and colorful content(like The Super Bowl/Sports in-general). I can even turn on the large torchier type lamp with a 100-150 watt lamp that bounces off the white ceiling and it's still fine/watchable. And with the projector being so close to the screen, you don't have to worry about people walking between it and the screen casting shadows.

LG CineBeam HU85/Elite Screens UST CLR/ALR Screen(.6 gain)

1st pic: Football with 2-3 lamps on and some Christmas lights

2nd & 3rd pics: Bright/colorful content with east facing bay window directly opposite with curtains closed then open mid-afternoon cloudy day(I never watch like this)

For movies/darker content, you want it as dark as possible and I'll generally turn all lights in the room off and all curtains & blinds will be closed(if during the day, night doesn't matter as much)
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post #22 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 06:08 PM
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@purduesd is the 5k$ budget for the screen and projector?

From the schematic, is that U shaped object a couch? It looks around 10" away from the screen.
Screen size is subjective and it's often recommended to use the projector on a wall for some time before deciding, but 120" from 10" seems about right.

Angular ALR screen must not have any light coming from the same direction as the projector.

They usually require a 1.5x or more throw ratio (screen width) to not display any artifacts. For an 120" screen the width is 104.6". 104.6 x 1.5=156" (13').
Closer to 2.0 would be better. 104.6 x 1.8=188.28 (15.6')
Each screen has it's own requirement.
The further a projector is the less bright it will be.

From the projectors mentioned above, only the ZH403, Benq HT3550 and TK850 don't have longer throw ratios.

Angular ALR screens also have something called half gain:
This is the angle at which the center of the picture appears to be half as bright as it does when viewed along the zero degree viewing axis. A screen with a small, narrow half gain angle will look bright at dead center, then quickly become dim as you move to the side. Conversely a screen with a large, wide half gain angle will continue to look reasonably bright as you move away from center.

Half gain is vertical and horizontal. The vertical one doesn't really matter that much for normal viewing, but horizontal does if there are people watching from the side, like from the bar for instance.
The bar seems around 40 degrees off axis from the perpendicular central axis of the screen. This means if a screen has a 45 degree half gain, the brightness at the bar will be half that when the screen is being viewed from the center.

The smaller the half gain, the better it fights ambient light.

How much time will be spent at the bar versus the couch?
Then you can select an ALR screen.


Another issue could be if there will be speakers behind the screen, in which case an Acoustic Transparent screen will be required. ALR screens can be expensive to begin with, and adding the AT requirement would make it even more so.

But is there an ALR screen even required? As in zombie10k screenshots, with proper ambient light control and enough brightness a regular screen could be used instead. This would eliminate the issue of the viewing angle, lower the price significantly if an AT (or not) screen is required. Also with children it's a good idea to get a relatively cheap screen, or a screen that you can build yourself with a wooden frame and spandex (which is AT) over it.


With regards to how an ALR/or not screen would handle different lighting scenarios, it's been pointed out in the examples above. For more examples check out this test with four different scenarios. Ignore the hotspot:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58809924


Although you said that the main purpose of the setup is sports and ambient light viewing, once you see how the image looks on a big screen you'll want to watch movies/TV as well. This will require to dim or even turn off most of the lights in order not to affect black level and dark parts of the image. This is the part of the image that will be affected the most by ambient light.
The projectors mentioned above are bright but don't have great contrast and black level. An Epson 5050UB would provide better contrast/black level and brightness.


If you don't want people accidentally making eye contact with the projector beam directly, which can be quite bright, or not have shadows when people move around in front of the beam, as Run&Gun suggested an UST projector can be used here.

For increased ambient light rejection/resistance a UST ALR screen can be used. UST ALR screens and long throw ALR screens are different. UST ALR screens will not have a hotspot or viewing angle issues. They are mostly designed to resist ambient light coming from above, but will handle some from the sides as well.
If you do decide to go the UST projector route there are models with nice black level and contrast.


Can a fixed frame screen be used or is a drop down required? A fixed frame would be more budget friendly.
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post #23 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I should have the JVC DLP laser projector here Monday. I'll try and shoot some screen shots on my 122" diagonal 16:9 screen with some lighting on.
That would be awesome if you could post some, thanks!
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post #24 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run&Gun View Post
Have you considered a UST laser projector and CLR/ALR screen? You can go up to 120" and if you can do some light control, they perform reasonably well with some ambient light, like lamps, with bright and colorful content(like The Super Bowl/Sports in-general). I can even turn on the large torchier type lamp with a 100-150 watt lamp that bounces off the white ceiling and it's still fine/watchable. And with the projector being so close to the screen, you don't have to worry about people walking between it and the screen casting shadows.

LG CineBeam HU85/Elite Screens UST CLR/ALR Screen(.6 gain)

1st pic: Football with 2-3 lamps on and some Christmas lights

2nd & 3rd pics: Bright/colorful content with east facing bay window directly opposite with curtains closed then open mid-afternoon cloudy day(I never watch like this)

For movies/darker content, you want it as dark as possible and I'll generally turn all lights in the room off and all curtains & blinds will be closed(if during the day, night doesn't matter as much)
I haven't gone down the ust rabbit hole yet... i'm pretty green with projectors... but educating myself quickly!
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post #25 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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@purduesd is the 5k$ budget for the screen and projector?
Yes, but it's not a hard budget. Would rather stay at or below.
From the schematic, is that U shaped object a couch? It looks around 10" away from the screen.
Screen size is subjective and it's often recommended to use the projector on a wall for some time before deciding, but 120" from 10" seems about right.
Yes, proposed couch. It is actually about 14' from the viewing position pictured to the screen.

Angular ALR screen must not have any light coming from the same direction as the projector.

They usually require a 1.5x or more throw ratio (screen width) to not display any artifacts. For an 120" screen the width is 104.6". 104.6 x 1.5=156" (13').
Closer to 2.0 would be better. 104.6 x 1.8=188.28 (15.6')
Each screen has it's own requirement.
The further a projector is the less bright it will be.

From the projectors mentioned above, only the ZH403, Benq HT3550 and TK850 don't have longer throw ratios.

My projector could be ceiling mounted 16'/17' feet away or closer very conveniently. And my nook limits screen size to around 120"

Angular ALR screens also have something called half gain:
This is the angle at which the center of the picture appears to be half as bright as it does when viewed along the zero degree viewing axis. A screen with a small, narrow half gain angle will look bright at dead center, then quickly become dim as you move to the side. Conversely a screen with a large, wide half gain angle will continue to look reasonably bright as you move away from center.

Half gain is vertical and horizontal. The vertical one doesn't really matter that much for normal viewing, but horizontal does if there are people watching from the side, like from the bar for instance.
The bar seems around 40 degrees off axis from the perpendicular central axis of the screen. This means if a screen has a 45 degree half gain, the brightness at the bar will be half that when the screen is being viewed from the center.

The smaller the half gain, the better it fights ambient light.

How much time will be spent at the bar versus the couch?
The bar will have its own its own 55"lcd
Then you can select an ALR screen.


Another issue could be if there will be speakers behind the screen, in which case an Acoustic Transparent screen will be required. ALR screens can be expensive to begin with, and adding the AT requirement would make it even more so.

I preferably would not like my Front L/R towers behind the screen. They have front atmos built in and are pretty looking But, Im not sure where to go with my center channel placement yet.

But is there an ALR screen even required? As in zombie10k screenshots, with proper ambient light control and enough brightness a regular screen could be used instead. This would eliminate the issue of the viewing angle, lower the price significantly if an AT (or not) screen is required. Also with children it's a good idea to get a relatively cheap screen, or a screen that you can build yourself with a wooden frame and spandex (which is AT) over it.


With regards to how an ALR/or not screen would handle different lighting scenarios, it's been pointed out in the examples above. For more examples check out this test with four different scenarios. Ignore the hotspot:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58809924

Im actually not sure at this point the the ALR screen is the direction I would lean. I think a traditional screen with the bright projector may be more versatile.


Although you said that the main purpose of the setup is sports and ambient light viewing, once you see how the image looks on a big screen you'll want to watch movies/TV as well. This will require to dim or even turn off most of the lights in order not to affect black level and dark parts of the image. This is the part of the image that will be affected the most by ambient light.
I did not mean to leave the impression sports and ambient light viewing were my main purpose. That is totally not the case. I want a great looking cinematic movie/show experience with light control, but the ability to watch a basketball game or host a party with ambient light on. If the display looks great for one and is garbage for the other, that's not going to work.

The projectors mentioned above are bright but don't have great contrast and black level. An Epson 5050UB would provide better contrast/black level and brightness.
How does one come to a conclusion here, where you cant physically see in person? Just read forums and reviews?

If you don't want people accidentally making eye contact with the projector beam directly, which can be quite bright, or not have shadows when people move around in front of the beam, as Run&Gun suggested an UST projector can be used here.
Im not overly concerned with shadows created or glare looking back into the projector direction. I need to educate myself on UST projectors before i can give much input here.

For increased ambient light rejection/resistance a UST ALR screen can be used. UST ALR screens and long throw ALR screens are different. UST ALR screens will not have a hotspot or viewing angle issues. They are mostly designed to resist ambient light coming from above, but will handle some from the sides as well.
If you do decide to go the UST projector route there are models with nice black level and contrast.

Again, i need to learn what the pros and cons are of ust.


Can a fixed frame screen be used or is a drop down required? A fixed frame would be more budget friendly.
Yes fixed frame is ok. I have had a suggestion to start with one of these..
https://www.amazon.com/STR-169120-Si...9409704&sr=8-3
But i again im no where near versed enough to start finalizing a plan...
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post #26 of 154 Old 01-18-2020, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purduesd View Post
Yes fixed frame is ok. I have had a suggestion to start with one of these..
https://www.amazon.com/STR-169120-Si...9409704&sr=8-3
But i again im no where near versed enough to start finalizing a plan...
ST is probably the most recommended budget brand. But the fabric is white. ST has screens with other fabrics.

How a projector looks like can be determined from trusted review sites, user testimonials, the company's previous generation of the same product.
Store, dealers, etc., do have some of these models on display, or can have them. Just search in your area. Maybe mention it, some of the users here might know specifics.

If the center channel will be placed behind the screen an AT screen would be required.

I was reffering to placing the screen outside the 3'2" deep enclosure. How wide is that space?

The laser projectors mentioned above don't have terrible contrast/black level, but don't reach what a 5050UB can do (in terms of black level/contrast). They are designed for venue/corporate/office environments.

Besides the 5050UB there are options in JVC used or new. JVC will deliver an even better picture, with better black levels, colors, sharper, etc. B stock JVC NX5/RS1000 can be had for about or under the cost of an 6050UB. Used lower than that.
The NX5 has probably the best HDR tone mapper on a projector. The JVC's are less bright than the Epson, so assuming an 120" screen, with proper light control it can be used with some ambient light on.

I don't believe there are any UST projectors that can provide the contrast/black level at 5050UB"s price or lower.


The screen.
Screen size depends on individual tastes. A very general ratio is 10-12" in diagonal for every foot in distance. With 14" that would be between 140 and 168".
The 5050UB might not be bright enough for a screen larger than 150".

A positive gain screen, i.e. 1.3 gain could be used to boost brightness.

An ALR screen would present a number of challenges:
With the 5050UB it could exceed the budget, but not by much. With a used JVC it's lower. With the NX5 it would exceed it more. If the ALR is larger than 120", well...
ALR's have as it's mentioned above a lower viewing cone. For the fabrics mentioned in post #8 the half gain is 35 degrees, at which angle the screen is half as bright as when viewed from the center. It's probably still bright enough. Looking at the schematic, the edges of the couch are at about 30 degrees.

Lower priced ALR screens can be had, don't have to get SI Slate. Mainly from Dark Energy Screens (which are limited to 120"), and Elite Screens Cinegrey 3D and 5D. Additionally if you can build a wooden frame fabrics from these manufacturers (and Carl's ALR) can be had for under $200. the DES fabric is somewhat more expensive, and so are other manufacturers.
Some ALR fabrics as I previously mentioned do require the projector to be placed at a certain distance, but there is enough in that setup, unless going for a 150"+ screen.

Here is an example of a screen with Carl's ALR with a very similar projector to the 5050UB (6030UB):
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...lr-review.html


How much time percentage would the setup be used for sports vs. movies?
If it's going to be used for sports I don't know if I would trade in the extra brightness of the 5050UB for a better looking PQ of the NX5, but in the dark.


So basically you should decide between the Epson and JVC's, and for the screen get some samples to know if an ALR screen is really necessary.
Samples can be obtained from the manufacturer.
https://www.silverticketproducts.com...terial-samples
https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens.../dp/B01E9LMJCC
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post #27 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 12:18 AM
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I'd suggest just painting the screen wall with a suitable grey paint and it'll look really good. No need for anything more complex than that.
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post #28 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 03:19 AM
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Painting has its own issues, messy and a lot of labor, smells, requires equipment, etc... It is an option, but just noting that I generally personally place it as the 'last option', but some people love to paint.

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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
ST is probably the most recommended budget brand. But the fabric is white. ST has screens with other fabrics.
If i go with a non ALR screen, i guess i need to experiment with white vs silver vs gray.

How a projector looks like can be determined from trusted review sites, user testimonials, the company's previous generation of the same product.
Store, dealers, etc., do have some of these models on display, or can have them. Just search in your area. Maybe mention it, some of the users here might know specifics.

If the center channel will be placed behind the screen an AT screen would be required.

I was reffering to placing the screen outside the 3'2" deep enclosure. How wide is that space?
Its about 11-1/2' wide. Enough to place a 16:9 120" screen and my flanked by my two tower speakers on each side. I guess i could pull it forward in front of the boxed in beam, but I've go the nook setup for led tape accent lighting framing the screen which i would hate to loose.

The laser projectors mentioned above don't have terrible contrast/black level, but don't reach what a 5050UB can do (in terms of black level/contrast). They are designed for venue/corporate/office environments.
Gotcha, Ill dig around for some dark room picture examples of the laser projectors.

Besides the 5050UB there are options in JVC used or new. JVC will deliver an even better picture, with better black levels, colors, sharper, etc. B stock JVC NX5/RS1000 can be had for about or under the cost of an 6050UB. Used lower than that.
The NX5 has probably the best HDR tone mapper on a projector. The JVC's are less bright than the Epson, so assuming an 120" screen, with proper light control it can be used with some ambient light on.

So, if i am understanding your recommendation, you are saying to focus more on dark room performance and sacrifice the brightness. Contrast level is your big driver.

I don't believe there are any UST projectors that can provide the contrast/black level at 5050UB"s price or lower.


The screen.
Screen size depends on individual tastes. A very general ratio is 10-12" in diagonal for every foot in distance. With 14" that would be between 140 and 168".
The 5050UB might not be bright enough for a screen larger than 150".
I cant go larger than 120"

A positive gain screen, i.e. 1.3 gain could be used to boost brightness.

An ALR screen would present a number of challenges:
With the 5050UB it could exceed the budget, but not by much. With a used JVC it's lower. With the NX5 it would exceed it more. If the ALR is larger than 120", well...
ALR's have as it's mentioned above a lower viewing cone. For the fabrics mentioned in post #8 the half gain is 35 degrees, at which angle the screen is half as bright as when viewed from the center. It's probably still bright enough. Looking at the schematic, the edges of the couch are at about 30 degrees.

Lower priced ALR screens can be had, don't have to get SI Slate. Mainly from Dark Energy Screens (which are limited to 120"), and Elite Screens Cinegrey 3D and 5D. Additionally if you can build a wooden frame fabrics from these manufacturers (and Carl's ALR) can be had for under $200. the DES fabric is somewhat more expensive, and so are other manufacturers.
Some ALR fabrics as I previously mentioned do require the projector to be placed at a certain distance, but there is enough in that setup, unless going for a 150"+ screen.

Here is an example of a screen with Carl's ALR with a very similar projector to the 5050UB (6030UB):
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...lr-review.html

The narrower viewing angle of the ALR screen is a big drawback in my open party room setup.


How much time percentage would the setup be used for sports vs. movies?
If it's going to be used for sports I don't know if I would trade in the extra brightness of the 5050UB for a better looking PQ of the NX5, but in the dark.
I guess it's subjective based on some factors i won't know till i have the space basement completed. I think I would prioritize picture quality for movie night #1 followed closely by still looking good while entertaining (with ambient or partial lighting on in other sides of the room). I would say movies, netflix, etc 75% use, sports 25% but pretty equally important to me.

So basically you should decide between the Epson and JVC's, and for the screen get some samples to know if an ALR screen is really necessary.
Sounds like its JVC for the win for picture quality. Ive heard this from multiple sources, now. I just need to see if its brightness is good enough for my close 2nd priority.

Samples can be obtained from the manufacturer.
https://www.silverticketproducts.com...terial-samples
https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens.../dp/B01E9LMJCC
Thank you for your advice, its been super helpful.

Last edited by purduesd; 01-19-2020 at 07:41 AM.
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post #30 of 154 Old 01-19-2020, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
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Painting has its own issues, messy and a lot of labor, smells, requires equipment, etc... It is an option, but just noting that I generally personally place it as the 'last option', but some people love to paint.
Given the unfinished nature of the room, it's going to need paint anyways. From the OP, it seemed like a bright room setup, was what was being proposed. In such a room a high contrast, but dimmer projector will lose it's key advantage over a lower cost, but brighter laser projector.
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