Feb 2020 JVC X790 vs NX5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 53 Old 02-08-2020, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Feb 2020 JVC X790 vs NX5

Hi All,
The JVC DLA RS4800 1080p projector i bought in 2012 failed so it's time to upgrade.
I'm torn between the X790 and NX5 which now have about a 1250 difference.
I have an 8 foot wide native 2:35:1 Stewart Firehawk perforated G3 curved screen with a viewing distance of 10 ft 1st row, 15 ft 2nd row.
Projector sits directly above second row center seat so fan noise and eshift noise are a consideration.
The X790 is the same dimensions as my old projector so mounting might be simply swapping old one out and new one in.
NX5 is taller so the unit would be even closer to the viewers head (ears)

Any help, tips comments would be appreciated. Thanks!

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post #2 of 53 Old 02-08-2020, 04:28 PM
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Hi,

check these threads:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...ifference.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...790-540-a.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...dla-nx5-2.html
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post #3 of 53 Old 02-08-2020, 05:08 PM
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NX5 all the way. Don’t even look back.

Coming from a 590R to NX5 and recently NX7, IMO the 5 is the sweet spot.
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post #4 of 53 Old 02-08-2020, 05:50 PM
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I have owned the RS520, which is very similar to the X790. I now own the RS2000/N7. I believe that the RS2000/N7 was a noticeable upgrade even though the contrast is less and the contrast is much higher on the X790 than the RS1000/NX5. The difference you will notice on the RS1000/NX5 is that the image is sharper, calmer, and provides more detail. The HDR will definitely be an upgrade unless you are running MadVR on a HTPC or have an expensive lumagen or Envy. The advange of the X790 is obviously the contrast which will be evident over the RS1000/NX5 as well as the P3 filter. You will have to noticed what is valued more for you, contrast of the X790, which is great or the sharpness, clarity, and native 4k panels of the RS1000/NX5. I definitely feel that the upgrade from the RS520 to the RS2000/N7 was worth it. I might have cautioned the upgrade to the RS1000/NX5 due to not having the WCG filter, much less contrast, and not knowing how much native 4k panels made an impact over 4k eshift. Knowing what I know now, I might choose the RS1000/NX5 because my 4k collection is 300+ movies now.
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post #5 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I have owned the RS520, which is very similar to the X790. I now own the RS2000/N7. I believe that the RS2000/N7 was a noticeable upgrade even though the contrast is less and the contrast is much higher on the X790 than the RS1000/NX5. The difference you will notice on the RS1000/NX5 is that the image is sharper, calmer, and provides more detail. The HDR will definitely be an upgrade unless you are running MadVR on a HTPC or have an expensive lumagen or Envy. The advange of the X790 is obviously the contrast which will be evident over the RS1000/NX5 as well as the P3 filter. You will have to noticed what is valued more for you, contrast of the X790, which is great or the sharpness, clarity, and native 4k panels of the RS1000/NX5. I definitely feel that the upgrade from the RS520 to the RS2000/N7 was worth it. I might have cautioned the upgrade to the RS1000/NX5 due to not having the WCG filter, much less contrast, and not knowing how much native 4k panels made an impact over 4k eshift. Knowing what I know now, I might choose the RS1000/NX5 because my 4k collection is 300+ movies now.
You clearly are much more expert than I am. Lumagen/Envy/P3/WCG: I have no idea what these mean! Anyway, I am leaning towards saving some $$ and going with the X790 for better contrast. I don't envision a ton of 4K content in the near term. (Also, it may not be true but I have read that the 4K discs are underwhelming in many cases.) Finally, my screen size (106" for 2:35 to 1 and 87" for 16:9) and viewing distance of 10-15ft may not be able to distinguish 4K.

If anyone finds fault with that logic please weigh in.
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post #6 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
NX5 all the way. Don’t even look back.

Coming from a 590R to NX5 and recently NX7, IMO the 5 is the sweet spot.
Thanks for the recommendation. Of course, that will mean a new AVR as well, now I am $2K plus above the X790.
Let me ask you this: it seems like the NX5 features will be wasted and also the picture will be inferior on 1080p content. Only resolution advantage with 4K source material. Is that a reasonable statement?
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post #7 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by xrtdr View Post
You clearly are much more expert than I am. Lumagen/Envy/P3/WCG: I have no idea what these mean! Anyway, I am leaning towards saving some $$ and going with the X790 for better contrast. I don't envision a ton of 4K content in the near term. (Also, it may not be true but I have read that the 4K discs are underwhelming in many cases.) Finally, my screen size (106" for 2:35 to 1 and 87" for 16:9) and viewing distance of 10-15ft may not be able to distinguish 4K.

If anyone finds fault with that logic please weigh in.
It totally depends on if you move your seating closer, you are so far back at those small screen sizes that you will get little benefit (you may see some tiny improvement when using lens memory to zoom to a CIH screen, but for 16:9 you will see none). The main benefit will be the dynamic tone mapping of the NX-5. You could consider a B-stock NX-5 or a B-stock 520/540 (probably no b-stocks available), they still come with a warranty. You might also consider buying a used JVC RS-5xx from the forums. If your pushing your budget too far, it's not worth it, because you still need to budget for a new 4k Bluray player, media content, streaming services, new 4k HDMI cables, 3d if into it, and all that other stuff.

If you are not planning on paying for a calibration or calibrating your own projector, you might have issues with HDR content on the RS-540. You can still work around those issues, but it will be a workaround. The NX-5 will be more "set it and forget it" type of thing for HDR content.

The advantages of the NX-5 will be other features such as tone mapping and lack of e-shift noise. I have never owned an NX-5, but currently have an RS-420 (which is similar to the RS-540/X790 but with lower contrast). I have had many projectors in my theater at varying levels of contrast though.

I am a big fan of max contrast for Sci Fi movies, but it would be a hard call as most people would probably pick the extra features of the NX-5 over the extra contrast. The difference in contrast between an NX-5 and RS-540/x790 is about the same difference (as a multiplier) between a low-end DLP and an Epson 5050, so as Blee noted above, it's definitely not insignificant.

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post #8 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrtdr View Post
Thanks for the recommendation. Of course, that will mean a new AVR as well, now I am $2K plus above the X790.
Let me ask you this: it seems like the NX5 features will be wasted and also the picture will be inferior on 1080p content. Only resolution advantage with 4K source material. Is that a reasonable statement?
It totally depends on if you move your seating closer, I'd suggest moving your seating closer, you are so far back at those small screen sizes that you will get little benefit (you may see some tiny improvement when using lens memory to zoom to a CIH screen, but for 16:9 you will see none). As noted above, the main benefit will be the dynamic tone mapping of the NX-5.

You could consider a B-stock NX-5 or a B-stock 520/540 (probably no b-stocks available), they still come with a warranty. You might also consider buying a used JVC RS-5xx from the forums.

If your pushing your budget too far, it's not worth it, because you still need to budget for a new 4k Bluray player, media content, streaming services, new 4k HDMI cables, 3d if into it, and all that other stuff.
Thanks again. The seating is fairly fixed. Plus I worry about seeing the microperf any closer.
It is a good size for me for 2:35 content. Admittedly small for 16:9. Room constrained by low ceiling.
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post #9 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by xrtdr View Post
Thanks again. The seating is fairly fixed. Plus I worry about seeing the microperf any closer.
It is a good size for me for 2:35 content. Admittedly small for 16:9. Room constrained by low ceiling.
Since your seating and screen size are fixed to those smaller sizes, and you are on a stricter budget, then the 540 makes sense. However, do note that you might need to budget in a third-party calibration from ChadB or Kris Deering (or similar). I say "might" because it depends how much you are willing to mess with HDR and learn about it on the RS-540, whereas with the NX-5 it is easier to deal with, and you are less likely to need a third-party calibration for the NX-5 (it would still help some, but the main issue is HDR stuff on the RS-540).

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No wrong answer on these two excellent projectors, just depends on the user's goals and situations. Me, I am staying with regular blu-rays for the next few/several years (I don't stream), still enjoying my library of close to 2,200 discs (and still growing at great sale prices), so I wanted the very best JVC blacks and contrast to breathe life into my existing movie collection: that meant the RS540/790, and the fact my dealer gave me a killer price sealed the deal. The JVC is a huge upgrade visually, it's like watching all my movies for the first time with the reference grade blacks/contrast, stunning color, a sense of realism and depth, in another league compared to the Sony 45ES I'm coming from and the Epson 5050 I've been testing.

The current JVC native 4k units took a small but noticeabke step backwards with black levels and contrast according to respected reviewers and experienced forum members, and they still are not as bright as what I personally want when I do go 4K UHD on a 150" screen, so I am enjoying the killer 540/790 for the next five or so years, and then I will look into the latest JVC at that time when they have brought their famous contrast and black floor back to previous levels and have increased brightness more, or even switched to lasers below wealthy person pricing.

Others on the forum want native 4K UHD and better tone mapping *now* so for them NX series is sweet and they aren't bothered by the slightly worse blacks/contrast compared to the previous generation. They've made the best choice for *them*. No wrong answers here!

Cheers,
Ross
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post #11 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 12:44 PM
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If brightness matching a JVC Rs-540 to an NX-5, you're looking at about a 3x multiplier increase in native contrast. If you are watching the picture really bright like in HDR, this will be VISUALLY about the same difference as 1000:1 to 4000:1 (which is the same as going from a calibrated average DLP to a calibrated Epson 5050). Of course the DLP blacks will still look much worse than the NX-5 in all cases if brightness matching, but I'm speaking in a comparative sense as far as how much delta exists between the two variations in contrast.

That said, even though the JVC's Dynamic Iris still works well for blacking out the pure black scenes such as the scene transitions, it does almost nothing for mixed contrast scenes. Given how bright the image will be on an 87", he is going to need that extra contrast from 10'+ back a heck of a lot more than the extra sharpness. I would definitely be inclined to save the money and go for the RS-540 in this case, and just implement a workaround for lack of dynamic tone mapping.
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post #12 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 01:07 PM
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NX5 imo.

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post #13 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 01:10 PM
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Another vote for RS1000/NX5.
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post #14 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 01:11 PM
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Everyone is always going to say the newer projector or whatever series they own, but his case is a bit unique. His screen size is fixed 10' to 15' back from an 87" to 106" screen, and he said he is on a budget and that his seating distance and screen size will NEVER change due to room constraints. That is a really small screen size, he will see none of the benefits in clarity and sharpness that others are seeing from that size. It will literally be impossible to see it unless he has about 20/10 vision (1% chance). The DTM is an issue somewhat, but more of an issue at his screen size is the contrast difference.

At that seating distance, he could almost stick with an older used JVC like an RS-57 if he really wanted to save money, as he'll have enough brightness for the most part (at least the first 1000 hours on the lamp).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrtdr View Post
Thanks for the recommendation. Of course, that will mean a new AVR as well, now I am $2K plus above the X790.
Let me ask you this: it seems like the NX5 features will be wasted and also the picture will be inferior on 1080p content. Only resolution advantage with 4K source material. Is that a reasonable statement?
eshift noise drove me nuts on my 590.

The day I brought my NX5 home I placed it next to my 590R on top of some speaker boxes 16’ back from my screen. I hooked them both up to compare the resolution on my PS4.

These are 2 pics I was able to dig up from a year ago.

Reading your first post I took it as a question, is the NX5 worth the $1,250 difference over the 790. IMO it is.
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post #16 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 03:24 PM
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E-shift noise may bother some, but not sure about bringing sharpness into this at his presumably 12' seating distance from 87" 16:9 screen (he said maybe 10', but even 10' from 87" is nothing). I've seen an RS-5xx right next to an RS-4500 (which the 4500 is as sharp as the NX series), I've also got a 4k DLP here right next to my RS-420, and this 4k DLP is definitely sharper than my RS-4xx, but I wouldn't choose it over another JVC just because it's sharper, especially at his seating distance. I would still take the contrast, for me it's not even close since why would someone emphasize something they won't be able to see when choosing a unit. It does make sense to bring it up if he plans on moving his seating, for certain, but he's just sitting so far back for that screen size.

The dynamic tone mapping could be debateable, but not sure it would be worth $1200 to him since he emphasized he is on a budget.

The sharpness on an 87" screen really is going to mean almost zilch at his seating distance, which he said he cannot and won't change no matter what.

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Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
eshift noise drove me nuts on my 590.

The day I brought my NX5 home I placed it next to my 590R on top of some speaker boxes 16’ back from my screen. I hooked them both up to compare the resolution on my PS4.

These are 2 pics I was able to dig up from a year ago.

Reading your first post I took it as a question, is the NX5 worth the $1,250 difference over the 790. IMO it is.
No offense to your 590R, but that convergence error does not look typical between 2 JVC units, even the RS-4500 I saw had more convergence error than what your second pic shows. On the one hand, you have a near perfect sample of the NX-5 and a very questionable 590r sample.

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I’m with @coderguy on this one, sharpness, resolution or what ever you want to call it shouldn’t be the reason for picking the NX5 over the other. The N series has other benefits which can justify the cost, to achieve similar results with HDR on the X790 you will need MadVR and a tricked out PC so the budget difference will be swallowed up right there.

Personally if you have the budget for either and don’t mind spending the extra the NX5 will not having you feeling the need to upgrade in a few years like will probably be the case with the X790.

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post #19 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 03:44 PM
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The JVC DTM does a decent job, but it isn't up to MadVR levels, according to people that have compared it, so either way it's still a compromise. However, JVC may be issuing continued firmware updates, so the biggest deal would likely be the user updateable firmware and the faster HDMI synch'n, these are the 2 key features. He'll have to trade $1200 and lose some contrast to achieve it.

Is it worth it, only he can decide...

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post #20 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 03:45 PM
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He should buy a 520 add a custom curve buy a vertex a do dolbi vision.. game over!!!
I've never calibrated my projector I don't know how but I can tell you I'm as happy as ever with this new hack. I stream everything now in DV and with my oppo whatever disc I rent through redbox or buy which are very little I watch them in DV as well.

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post #21 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 03:46 PM
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Unless the longer times for the HDMI Synch'n or e-shift noise drive him crazy, or if he doesn't want to deal with custom curves or streaming from the Panny...

That should really be where his decision falls for his seating distance...

Only he can decide if that is worth $1200 to him, for me it's not, but I am shooting out of a closet (I can barely hear the e-shift noise), even if it were closer to me it wouldn't bother me much. The HDMI synch times is also not very bothersome to me, though it is slightly annoying, but you get used to it.

The biggest headache really is the HDR mess and lack of DTM, but then again that can be worked around for the most part.

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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
No offense to your 590R, but that convergence error does not look typical between 2 JVC units, even the RS-4500 I saw had more convergence error than what your second pic shows. On the one hand, you have a near perfect sample of the NX-5 and a very questionable 590r sample.
The convergence error you see is because of the pixel adjust I had. I had a panamorph lens in front of the 590 when it was mounted. I took it down and didn’t zero it out after removing the lens for these pics. Ignore the blue. Look at the resolution. That’s what I was comparing in the photos.

That day I had a 590R, NX5 and Sony 1100es comparing them all.

Those saying resolution wouldn’t be noticed, it was clear as day to me and my brother who was helping me hang the new NX5. Someone who doesn’t care about this stuff at all.

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post #23 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 04:24 PM
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I would not mind owning both personally. I would probably replace my DLP with an NX-5 and then replace the 420 with an 540/x790 for dark sci fi, but that's just me... I'm definitely not enamored with the contrast of the RS-420 which is very similar to the NX-5 (about the same I presume), it's passable and looks great in those total blackout scenes. However, my reference level comparisons for dark scenes definitely are a step above on the RS-540, and this is coming from someone that CHEAPED out in getting an RS-420 instead of an NX-5 or RS-540, after I compared the contrast of the 540 vs 420. However, the difference in price for me (at the time) was 400%, not just $1200.

For a $1,200 difference, it would be a tough decision on all these choices.

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post #24 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I really appreciate the discussion. I spent about 50k on the theater project 8 years ago so that was essentially the budget. Only really looking to put in another 5 to 7k at this point. I was fine until my 1080p projector bit it.

I looked closer and can probably scoot both rows of seating forward a foot.

I still worry about seeing the perf screen any closer though.

As an added wrinkle, sorry to do this, it is a gray Firehawk G3 screen. I am wondering if the gray is working against the contrast capability of the projector. (Light control, black ceiling and front, some beige on the other walls).

Also need to consider moire with eshift or 4K?
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post #25 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RaceCarDriver View Post
Those saying resolution wouldn’t be noticed, it was clear as day to me and my brother who was helping me hang the new NX5. Someone who doesn’t care about this stuff at all.
For most people, it would be noticed, but resolution is a factor of seating distance and screen size, in which he is using a small screen from a FAR seating distance.

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post #26 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrtdr View Post
I really appreciate the discussion. I spent about 50k on the theater project 8 years ago so that was essentially the budget. Only really looking to put in another 5 to 7k at this point. I was fine until my 1080p projector bit it.

I looked closer and can probably scoot both rows of seating forward a foot.

I still worry about seeing the perf screen any closer though.

As an added wrinkle, sorry to do this, it is a gray Firehawk G3 screen. I am wondering if the gray is working against the contrast capability of the projector. (Light control, black ceiling and front, some beige on the other walls).

Also need to consider moire with eshift or 4K?

The only way to know for absolute certainty what you would pick, is to setup a comparison at a dealer, but only do so if you are ready to pull the trigger. Also, make sure you get reasonably close to your actual seating distance when comparing, don't pixel peep (anymore than necessary) or you'll definitely end up spending the extra $1200.

If you sit a foot closer, you may see a difference with the Scope content, but on the 16:9 stuff you'll be hard pressed to see it, and even if you can see a difference on the scope content, it won't be a huge difference in sharpness, not at that size.

IMO, if you can find a floor model or dealer sample that you can first see, this is the best of all worlds because then you can pick the best sample unit, but it is very hard to find. A few rare dealers are willing to open B-stock boxes to show you a unit (but it's rare, and not sure if they are supposed to do it or not, one time the dealer acted like he was doing me a major favor in doing so).
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Last edited by coderguy; 02-10-2020 at 04:50 PM.
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post #27 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 05:01 PM
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If I was choosing between these two knowing everything I do about my 790, I'd pick the NX5 no question.
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post #28 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm in a relatively small market (northern Ohio) with no JVC showrooms. So I am shopping the X790 hoping for Pres day sale. We may only be in this house another 3-4 years anyway. Thanks for all the advice and opinions. I have alot to learn...tone mapping, Dolbyvision, etc. I mainly just watch movies (mix of blu ray and streaming)and binge Netflix series,etc. No gaming, very little sports.
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post #29 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 05:41 PM
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And while we are on the topic of contrast, $28,000 Sony VPL-VW1100ES vs NX5. Let me tell you though real world the lens and picture the Sony three was beautiful. But as with technology, some newer, current features outweigh older premium technologies. As did the NX5.
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Last edited by RaceCarDriver; 02-11-2020 at 10:54 PM.
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post #30 of 53 Old 02-10-2020, 06:16 PM
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@XRTDR
Everyone has varying preferences, I would take a "trip" to go compare in a big city, I'm sure you're not that far from a city...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post59222994


...

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Last edited by coderguy; 02-10-2020 at 06:20 PM.
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