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post #1 of 24 Old 02-14-2020, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Help in choosing PJ between $4000-$6000

Hello folks,

I have a small room in my apartment, where I wanna make dedicate for movies, series and video game.

Here is the base plan for that. Its close to the balcony, which have plenty of space and lights coming. I do have plans to put some curtains in the balcony as well, but I think would make more sense to put them next to the couch.

As you can see, there are two possible designs for the couch and the screen. I am looking for 100-120" of screen.


- Small sofa, ~3.22 meters for Projector distance, 2,63 wall for projection.



- Bigger sofa, ~2,63 meters for Projector distance, 3,22 wall for projection.

I am looking for a 4k projector, which will be mainly used for movies (planning to have 2 automatic screen with 16:9 and 2.39.1). Also planning to add a sound system for 5.1.2 (so I believe a projector with Atmos support would be awesome + be able to do 2.39.1)

Options I have been looking and reading here:

- BenQ LK953ST 4K HDR DLP
- JVC NX5 4k
- Some Sonys, Epson's, etc

Thanks in advance guys
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-14-2020, 02:43 PM
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doesn't nx7 also fall within your upper range?
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post #3 of 24 Old 02-14-2020, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe here in Europe they are a little more expensive, but I would be open to increase the budget in case necessary =)
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-14-2020, 03:18 PM
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doesn't nx7 also fall within your upper range?
No, Europe or here.
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post #5 of 24 Old 02-14-2020, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fabiogalera View Post
I believe here in Europe they are a little more expensive, but I would be open to increase the budget in case necessary =)
In Europe the JVC I am pretty sure are all out of your budget. You will need to find a local JVC dealer to confirm. EPSON 9400 can be found for really great prices in Europe. 2600 lumens will help with some of that light streaming in and room reflections and ambient light. I would suggest an ALR screen just make sure you have the ability to install the projector at the correct angle and distance from the ALR screen. I would also have this UST PROJECTOR on your list.

LG HU85LA 4K UHD Laser Smart Home Theater CineBeam Projector

Seems made for your situation with an ALR screen.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
In Europe the JVC I am pretty sure are all out of your budget. You will need to find a local JVC dealer to confirm. EPSON 9400 can be found for really great prices in Europe. 2600 lumens will help with some of that light streaming in and room reflections and ambient light. I would suggest an ALR screen just make sure you have the ability to install the projector at the correct angle and distance from the ALR screen. I would also have this UST PROJECTOR on your list.

LG HU85LA 4K UHD Laser Smart Home Theater CineBeam Projector

Seems made for your situation with an ALR screen.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Thank you for your reply.

EPSON 9400, seems great option, its around 3k here. At 3m distance, I would get only 100". Do you think its good for 3m watching distance ?

About the UST, I also checked the Optoma UHZ65UST (P1 in USA), comparing with the LG. Which would you think is better ?

Regarding the lights, you think the blackout curtain woudn't make JVC benefits worth it ? While reading many threads in the forum, I see that JVC and Sony are more for dedicate HT Rooms, with black walls, etc. So maybe JVC would be too much for me
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I would go smaller sofa config.

Move the sofa into the room to a good distance for a 100 inch display. This let's you get a better surround setup with left/right rear speakers going in better places the lets you have a rear surround field.

If you do 5.2 speakers why not 5.4? I hear it is better to go all the way and you can layout a nice 5.4.1 setup in you room.


Do you have any uncovers windows ? Will you paint dark black?
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Originally Posted by kemannthey View Post
I would go smaller sofa config.

Move the sofa into the room to a good distance for a 100 inch display. This let's you get a better surround setup with left/right rear speakers going in better places the lets you have a rear surround field.

If you do 5.2 speakers why not 5.4? I hear it is better to go all the way and you can layout a nice 5.4.1 setup in you room.


Do you have any uncovers windows ? Will you paint dark black?

5.4.1, thanks for the opinion, I will plan for that =)

- The window in the room will be covered with a blackout curtains. Do you think its necessary to add curtain behind the sofa ?
- I am not be painting the walls in dark black.
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-14-2020, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabiogalera View Post
5.4.1, thanks for the opinion, I will plan for that =)

- The window in the room will be covered with a blackout curtains. Do you think its necessary to add curtain behind the sofa ?
- I am not be painting the walls in dark black.
Wall reflections will affect black/contrast for all projectors, including low contrast ones.
Example:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/

Doesn't have to be black paint, some dark paint will do.

What type of games? 4K DLP's have varying lag, from 40ms upwards. The Epson's have mid 20's.


This room does not have the distance for ALR screens to be used. Even the most expensive would likely artifact.


On the 263cm wall the biggest screen that can be installed is 118.8" (16:9).
On the 322cm wall the biggest screen can be 145.5".
Both of these without a border. If the border is ~2", substract ~4". So ~115" and ~141".

Estimated viewing distance with the ~115" is ~272cm/~9'.
Estimated distance for the ~141" is ~213cm/~7'.

The way to determine the right screen size is to use the projector on the wall for a few weeks.

A very general ratio is 10-12" for every foot in distance. For 9' it would be from 90 to 108". For 7' it's from 70" to 84".

The TW9400 is 45cm long. With ~10cm at the cables at the back, in the setup with 322cm wall to wall, the remaining distance is 267cm. Which results in a screen no larger than 88".
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...ulator-pro.htm


A UST projector and a UST ALR screen could work. The Optoma and LG mentioned above will have good black level. UST ALR's are best at rejecting light from above, less from anywhere else. They're both DLP.
Painting the room in a dark color/shade will still improve things with an UST ALR screen.


Front projection models with lower throw ratio with good blacks don't exist. The Benq W2700 (HT3550 in the US) has worse black level than both UST's mentioned above.
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-14-2020, 06:24 PM
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Due to his short throw distance, the decision should probably be narrowed between 2 projectors, the Benq ht3550 (short throw) and the LG HU85LA (ultra short throw). The UST is going to cost a whole lot more and really push your budget, especially after adding the screen and other stuff... You might consider other UST models though, not sure about all the pricing.

The biggest issue with UST is it is more difficult to deal with scope and masking, which I think is important for the full experience, especially if you are darkening your room. I would use Triple Black Velvet instead of painting, build panels that attach with magnets, then you can remove them when needed. Also, with the money saved by using the Benq, you can install a motorized curtain system to cover the ceiling (or use magnetic removable panels), or a pull system like Javs did in his theater.

For aspect switching, even though the Benq does not support motorized controls, you can still switch it manually. You can also get more extravagant and implement other methods, like dual screens or motorized masking, or even convert the zoom to motorized with a servo (potentially).

The Benq can do a 110" 16:9 from the lens being 2.8m away and there are workarounds for switching aspects. Don't see any workarounds on the UST, other than a scope UST screen (even more expensive most likely).

There is just TOO much 2:1 and 2.35-2.4 aspect ratio content these days to live with the black bars on a 16:9 screen.

If you can fit it in that room (that diagram is hard to read, too small), then i would probably do a CIH - Scope screen at first. The black bars are much less intrusive on a scope than on a 16:9 screen, especially if you don't feel like implementing a masking setup.

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post #12 of 24 Old 02-15-2020, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Wall reflections will affect black/contrast for all projectors, including low contrast ones.
Example:
https://www.facebook.com/projectiond...2721894385217/

Doesn't have to be black paint, some dark paint will do.

What type of games? 4K DLP's have varying lag, from 40ms upwards. The Epson's have mid 20's.

This room does not have the distance for ALR screens to be used. Even the most expensive would likely artifact.


On the 263cm wall the biggest screen that can be installed is 118.8" (16:9).
On the 322cm wall the biggest screen can be 145.5".
Both of these without a border. If the border is ~2", substract ~4". So ~115" and ~141".

Estimated viewing distance with the ~115" is ~272cm/~9'.
Estimated distance for the ~141" is ~213cm/~7'.

The way to determine the right screen size is to use the projector on the wall for a few weeks.

A very general ratio is 10-12" for every foot in distance. For 9' it would be from 90 to 108". For 7' it's from 70" to 84".

The TW9400 is 45cm long. With ~10cm at the cables at the back, in the setup with 322cm wall to wall, the remaining distance is 267cm. Which results in a screen no larger than 88".
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...ulator-pro.htm


A UST projector and a UST ALR screen could work. The Optoma and LG mentioned above will have good black level. UST ALR's are best at rejecting light from above, less from anywhere else. They're both DLP.
Painting the room in a dark color/shade will still improve things with an UST ALR screen.


Front projection models with lower throw ratio with good blacks don't exist. The Benq W2700 (HT3550 in the US) has worse black level than both UST's mentioned above.
Games in general, I don't play competitive, more single player or games for family and friends, those ones with cell phone =)

Instead of painting in black, I am planning to have some curtains (btw, the video you post is awesome, thats only the curtain made that effect ? Do I need to cover the celling as well ?)

Seems that my options is going to be UST, still thinking in which one to choose. I also checked this Vava one. Definitely, in my price range, the best one would be the LG one.
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Due to his short throw distance, the decision should probably be narrowed between 2 projectors, the Benq ht3550 (short throw) and the LG HU85LA (ultra short throw). The UST is going to cost a whole lot more and really push your budget, especially after adding the screen and other stuff... You might consider other UST models though, not sure about all the pricing.

The biggest issue with UST is it is more difficult to deal with scope and masking, which I think is important for the full experience, especially if you are darkening your room. I would use Triple Black Velvet instead of painting, build panels that attach with magnets, then you can remove them when needed. Also, with the money saved by using the Benq, you can install a motorized curtain system to cover the ceiling (or use magnetic removable panels), or a pull system like Javs did in his theater.

For aspect switching, even though the Benq does not support motorized controls, you can still switch it manually. You can also get more extravagant and implement other methods, like dual screens or motorized masking, or even convert the zoom to motorized with a servo (potentially).

The Benq can do a 110" 16:9 from the lens being 2.8m away and there are workarounds for switching aspects. Don't see any workarounds on the UST, other than a scope UST screen (even more expensive most likely).

There is just TOO much 2:1 and 2.35-2.4 aspect ratio content these days to live with the black bars on a 16:9 screen.

If you can fit it in that room (that diagram is hard to read, too small), then i would probably do a CIH - Scope screen at first. The black bars are much less intrusive on a scope than on a 16:9 screen, especially if you don't feel like implementing a masking setup.
Thanks so much for you reply. I am probably choosing the UST, just need to decide which one.

I watched a video while someone setup dual screen automated, but seems that the Projector require to have Triggers to switch the screens for different ratios. Ofcourse I could do it manually, but for sure it will double my cost in screen.

I like more practical things, for any chance do you have video of these settings ? Even video of the Javs Pull System.

Do you think a system with automated black curtains in the walls, plus double screen would work good ? It will probably exceed my budget, but I think will be the best experience and less manual work.

Do you know any good ART screen to buy online ? I see that there are different colors and gain on that, which gain would be best ?

Fabio Galera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabiogalera View Post
Games in general, I don't play competitive, more single player or games for family and friends, those ones with cell phone =)

Instead of painting in black, I am planning to have some curtains (btw, the video you post is awesome, thats only the curtain made that effect ? Do I need to cover the celling as well ?)

Seems that my options is going to be UST, still thinking in which one to choose. I also checked this Vava one. Definitely, in my price range, the best one would be the LG one.
Reflective surfaces, including the ceiling will affect black level/contrast.

UST ALR screens are very good at reflecting light from above, so with that type of screen the ceiling will be less of an issue.

However, a white ceiling will stick out in a dark room.

I'm not too familiar with the two differences between these two UST's, but the LG and the Optoma have good black level, not so sure about the Vava. Or are you referring to a Vava screen?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
In Europe the JVC I am pretty sure are all out of your budget. You will need to find a local JVC dealer to confirm. EPSON 9400 can be found for really great prices in Europe. 2600 lumens will help with some of that light streaming in and room reflections and ambient light. I would suggest an ALR screen just make sure you have the ability to install the projector at the correct angle and distance from the ALR screen. I would also have this UST PROJECTOR on your list.

LG HU85LA 4K UHD Laser Smart Home Theater CineBeam Projector

Seems made for your situation with an ALR screen.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
In the UK the N5 is 6.5K GBP and the N7 is 8.5K GBP. So they are both out of your budget over here!

The Sony 270 at 4.9K GBP is the only one with native 4K that would sit near that price range.

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In the UK the N5 is 6.5K GBP and the N7 is 8.5K GBP. So they are both out of your budget over here!

The Sony 270 at 4.9K GBP is the only one with native 4K that would sit near that price range.
Due to the limitations of the room only a projector with a shorter throw like the W2700 or a UST will work.
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Reflective surfaces, including the ceiling will affect black level/contrast.

UST ALR screens are very good at reflecting light from above, so with that type of screen the ceiling will be less of an issue.

However, a white ceiling will stick out in a dark room.

I'm not too familiar with the two differences between these two UST's, but the LG and the Optoma have good black level, not so sure about the Vava. Or are you referring to a Vava screen?
I was actually referencing to the Projector.

But seems the goal here would be between LG and P1 (even maybe LS500 from Epson)

P1 have 3D, LG no.
P1 dont have HDMI (HDCP 2.2): LG has - Do you think it justify the price jump ?
P1 .47 chip (4 shfit) and LG .66 - (2shift)

Optima also have a fixed screen, which is ALR.
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What you guys think about the BenQ LK953ST?

Wouldn't be a good option here ? vs LG (same price range).

Also, another thing, as I am planning to have a 5.4.1 system, an optical audio output woudn't be required ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabiogalera View Post
What you guys think about the BenQ LK953ST?

Wouldn't be a good option here ? vs LG (same price range).

Also, another thing, as I am planning to have a 5.4.1 system, an optical audio output woudn't be required ?
How about this one.....

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell...or-accessories

Says native contrast 2000:1 in the specs!

Edit:
Review: https://greviews.co.uk/dell-s718ql-4k-projector-review/

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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
How about this one.....

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell...or-accessories

Says native contrast 2000:1 in the specs!

Edit:
Review: https://greviews.co.uk/dell-s718ql-4k-projector-review/
Oh man, another UST hehehe.

I also checked the Hisense one, but this one come with the screen already ? Is it possible to buy without the screen ?

The list for now
https://www.projectorcentral.com/pro...are_list=11140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabiogalera View Post
What you guys think about the BenQ LK953ST?

Wouldn't be a good option here ? vs LG (same price range).

Also, another thing, as I am planning to have a 5.4.1 system, an optical audio output woudn't be required ?
That projector is a light canon for your screen size, and I believe it has worse contrast than the w2700 (ht3550). Unless you are really planning on leaving that window totally uncovered and the light will just be soaring in really bright, I would not buy a light canon projector for such a small screen. A lot of this depends on the exact amount of light in your room, so it's hard to say without seeing your room. With someone mostly into movies, the problem with UST is it has no ability to do aspect switching in most cases, the zoom is fixed and there are no motorized controls. Your image for movies will be an inner-container and be small and have giant black bars on it, like what happens when you watch some movies on a TV, except on a PJ the black bars are usually more intrusive because they tend to be brighter.

There are potential ways to modify, such as placing the UST on a lab jack that has wheels, but I've never tried such a thing so would have no idea if it would even work right. You could move the PJ manually I guess to switch aspects, but most UST don't have lens shift (AFIK), so it'd still require some type of movable platform probably.

For the blackout stuff, most of the discussions you will find in this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...image-239.html

Here are some pics of one design, there are more hidden ways to do it, that is just one method.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post48411217

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Last edited by coderguy; 02-15-2020 at 01:20 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabiogalera View Post
Thanks so much for you reply. I am probably choosing the UST, just need to decide which one.

I watched a video while someone setup dual screen automated, but seems that the Projector require to have Triggers to switch the screens for different ratios. Ofcourse I could do it manually, but for sure it will double my cost in screen.

I like more practical things, for any chance do you have video of these settings ? Even video of the Javs Pull System.

Do you think a system with automated black curtains in the walls, plus double screen would work good ? It will probably exceed my budget, but I think will be the best experience and less manual work.

Do you know any good ART screen to buy online ? I see that there are different colors and gain on that, which gain would be best ?

Fabio Galera
You do know the E-shifting DLP's have the higher gaming lag.
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post #23 of 24 Old 02-15-2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fabiogalera View Post
I am looking for a 4k projector, which will be mainly used for movies (planning to have 2 automatic screen with 16:9 and 2.39.1). Also planning to add a sound system for 5.1.2 (so I believe a projector with Atmos support would be awesome + be able to do 2.39.1)
The UST projector may work if you don't mind a 120" 16:9 screen with a 114" scope screen and you don't mind the movie image (scope) being much higher than the 16:9 image, or you implement a workaround to move the UST in place. Without a "moving PJ" workaround, you'll have to mount the 16:9 kind of low to the ground so the 2.35 image doesn't end up way too high. The best 4k projector if you are willing to settle with a smaller screen (104" 2.35 or so) is the Benq w2700, otherwise your options are going to mostly be 1080p short throw units. You said usage is mostly for movies, that is why I am framing the conversation like this.

What would I do in your situation?
I would go buy a UST projector from somewhere that I am 100% positive they allow easy returns. Then I'd go get some blackout cloth (it's actually white) and tack it to the wall to make a temporary screen, you can get it online or in a fabric store (usually cheap). I'd probably not be willing to accept the compromise of screen positioning and sizes, so I'd likely end up buying a motorized platform on the desk so that I didn't have to compromise screen positions, which I personally find awkward.

With your small room, you're either going to have too big of a 16:9 screen or too small of a 2.35 screen, or both at the same time. There may be a compromise that works for you, but only way to know is to test it really, which that is why I'd do this.

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Last edited by coderguy; 02-15-2020 at 01:50 PM.
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-15-2020, 01:48 PM
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Just out of curiosity, I looked online, and I noticed almost none of the motorized lab jacks come with remote setups (which means getting out of your chair anyways).

I guess you could build a DIY platform with a linear actuator sitting on a desk (if it is accurate enough to move in small increments), or you could try something like a motorized scissor lift or motorized PJ lift (tend to be too big and an eye sore). You could also affix a remote control motorized TV lift or actuator to the back of a desk (hidden behind the desk) and use an L shaped platform to make the lift raise/lower the UST projector. Again, never tried any of this, so it would be experimental. You could do it manually with no motorized controls by placing something under the projector, but then that involves directly handling the PJ every time you switch aspects.

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Last edited by coderguy; 02-15-2020 at 02:19 PM.
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