Finally Epson true 4K (2160p) HT projector imminent? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 20Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 46 Old 03-24-2020, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
maglito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Newark, IL
Posts: 136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Finally Epson true 4K (2160p) HT projector imminent?

It seems the new native 4K lcd panels are shipping in $80k USD commercial projectors:
Epson Pro L12000QNL
https://www.displaydaily.com/article...-now-available

Perhaps HT version is not far off?

It would be good to know the panel size and native contrast ratio to see if those panels are truly home theater bound...
skylarlove1999 likes this.
maglito is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 46 Old 03-24-2020, 12:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DavidinGA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 1,053
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 562 Post(s)
Liked: 248
Let's hope so...
skylarlove1999 and Spizz like this.

--------------------------------------------------
Epson 5040, 150" 16:9 1.1gain, Source: HTPC w/madVR, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofers: 1 MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D. 4 diy Slim VBSS 18" Subs w/NX3000D.
DavidinGA is offline  
post #3 of 46 Old 03-24-2020, 08:24 PM
Senior Member
 
LumenChip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 125
That is a 1 inch chip which require an expensive lens. The current 6050UB uses a 0.72 inch chip, so a home theatre derivative of the new chip will likely be pixel shifted to 4K resolution.

Kudos to Epson for sticking with UHD resolution.
LumenChip is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 46 Old 03-24-2020, 09:41 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27,874
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13490 Post(s)
Liked: 11118
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by maglito View Post
It seems the new native 4K lcd panels are shipping in $80k USD commercial projectors:
Epson Pro L12000QNL
https://www.displaydaily.com/article...-now-available

Perhaps HT version is not far off?

It would be good to know the panel size and native contrast ratio to see if those panels are truly home theater bound...
Epson introduced this projector a long time ago.
Kris Deering likes this.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #5 of 46 Old 03-25-2020, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
maglito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Newark, IL
Posts: 136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Epson introduced this projector a long time ago.
Well according to that news release (dated yesterday) it is "now available" perhaps before it was simply announced? Either way, I searched the forum and didn't see any mention of it before this post.

Maybe Epson will create a high end HT projector in the 10k-20k range on these chips?

Are there any other evidence of 1" chips being in this price range for HT? (I know the .95 DLPs are usually very expensive)

@LumenChip do you have any other links to technical specifications of these native Epson 4k chips/panels
maglito is offline  
post #6 of 46 Old 03-25-2020, 08:23 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
Industry Insider
 
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 25,705
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7285 Post(s)
Liked: 7323
Cleveland Plasma is offline  
post #7 of 46 Old 03-25-2020, 09:51 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27,874
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13490 Post(s)
Liked: 11118
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by maglito View Post
Well according to that news release (dated yesterday) it is "now available" perhaps before it was simply announced? Either way, I searched the forum and didn't see any mention of it before this post.

Maybe Epson will create a high end HT projector in the 10k-20k range on these chips?

Are there any other evidence of 1" chips being in this price range for HT? (I know the .95 DLPs are usually very expensive)

@LumenChip do you have any other links to technical specifications of these native Epson 4k chips/panels
Introduced its coming, quite a while ago. Think it was at CES 2019, but not sure. It has been mentioned in the forum before.

Added
Even older than i thought. 2/6/18.
https://www.epson.eu/insights/articl...n-wuxga-model1

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 03-25-2020 at 09:54 AM.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #8 of 46 Old 03-25-2020, 07:12 PM
Senior Member
 
LumenChip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by maglito View Post
Well according to that news release (dated yesterday) it is "now available" perhaps before it was simply announced? Either way, I searched the forum and didn't see any mention of it before this post.

Maybe Epson will create a high end HT projector in the 10k-20k range on these chips?

Are there any other evidence of 1" chips being in this price range for HT? (I know the .95 DLPs are usually very expensive)

@LumenChip do you have any other links to technical specifications of these native Epson 4k chips/panels
I don’t have any useful info, the chip size was derived from the pixel pitch listed in the link you posted.
maglito likes this.
LumenChip is offline  
post #9 of 46 Old 03-25-2020, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
maglito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Newark, IL
Posts: 136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Added
Even older than i thought. 2/6/18.
https://www.epson.eu/insights/articl...n-wuxga-model1
That link seems to list an anticipated availability date of the European version of this projector of over a year ago (January 2019). I wonder if it didn't make the anticipated date or was only available in Europe until now and thus this latest press release is just for the US version?

Or maybe it has been available for the last year in Europe but no one cared due to the European 4k model's listed limited 1200:1 native contrast ratio...
Craig Peer likes this.
maglito is offline  
post #10 of 46 Old 03-26-2020, 06:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27,874
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13490 Post(s)
Liked: 11118
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by maglito View Post
That link seems to list an anticipated availability date of the European version of this projector of over a year ago (January 2019). I wonder if it didn't make the anticipated date or was only available in Europe until now and thus this latest press release is just for the US version?

Or maybe it has been available for the last year in Europe but no one cared due to the European 4k model's listed limited 1200:1 native contrast ratio...
As I said, Epson announced this projector a long time ago. The first paragraph starts off:

"6 February 2018 –Epson has announced two new 3LCD laser installation projectors, including the EB-L12000Q, the industry's first 12,000-lumen native 4K 3LCD projector."

Here is a video of it being shown at Infocomm (US event) in 2018.

Yes, the native contrast of 1,200:1 was talked about here in the forum. The native contrast on the Epson Pro L12000QNL will be the same 1,200:1. That is why nobody was too excited about it back in 2018.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #11 of 46 Old 03-26-2020, 06:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
luismanrara's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 197 Post(s)
Liked: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by maglito View Post
That link seems to list an anticipated availability date of the European version of this projector of over a year ago (January 2019). I wonder if it didn't make the anticipated date or was only available in Europe until now and thus this latest press release is just for the US version?

Or maybe it has been available for the last year in Europe but no one cared due to the European 4k model's listed limited 1200:1 native contrast ratio...
Thank you maglito for forwarding this information, I had not heard about it, so it is fresh news for many of us.
maglito likes this.

Do not steal, The powers that be do not like the competition.
luismanrara is offline  
post #12 of 46 Old 03-27-2020, 08:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,371
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 898 Post(s)
Liked: 494
Commercial so not really relevant but I would say that if you could use it in a home situation the 1200:1 native contrast wouldn't be a problem as you could use one of those black screens. LOL

Guys it's only a matter of time before Epson release an fully 4K Native projector, the problem for most normal people who generally buy Epson over Sony/JVC is a 4K Native from Epson will be more expensive than most would want to pay.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
Luminated67 is offline  
post #13 of 46 Old 03-27-2020, 09:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27,874
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13490 Post(s)
Liked: 11118
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Commercial so not really relevant but I would say that if you could use it in a home situation the 1200:1 native contrast wouldn't be a problem as you could use one of those black screens. LOL

Guys it's only a matter of time before Epson release an fully 4K Native projector, the problem for most normal people who generally buy Epson over Sony/JVC is a 4K Native from Epson will be more expensive than most would want to pay.
Using a black screen does not change the contrast of the projector. A black screen lowers the black floor, but it also lowers the white level. A black screen with a reduced viewing cone can help reduce light hitting the walls and ceiling, which means losing less system contrast on medium to bright scenes.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #14 of 46 Old 03-27-2020, 11:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
Lygren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 527
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked: 512
Next residential chip from Epson is probably a lcd variant of the 0,66» dlp, i.e. still a pixel shifter, but this time a more actual 4K reproduction...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Luminated67 likes this.

Proudly Representing DreamScreen.no // ScreenAcoustics.com // AT screens & more!
Founder AVforum.no // Norway´s leading AV community since 2002
Lygren is online now  
post #15 of 46 Old 03-27-2020, 12:25 PM
Senior Member
 
LumenChip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 369
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
Next residential chip from Epson is probably a lcd variant of the 0,66» dlp, i.e. still a pixel shifter, but this time a more actual 4K reproduction...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I figure this is the best Epson can do with a LCD chip on the HT front. I would expect to see native 4K on a Quartz chip for the premium line sometime in late 2020. A voice inside my head says Epson wants to beat JVC to market with a “mainstream” reflective 4K laser projector.
Luminated67 likes this.
LumenChip is offline  
post #16 of 46 Old 03-28-2020, 08:52 AM
Senior Member
 
dbpaddler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Maybe they'll finally adjust their marketing and stop with the false advertising of their 2k shifters. Using the term "4k enhanced" is just a flat out lie, but who's going to buy a "Full HD Enhanced" or "2k" projector even if they have great image quality?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
dbpaddler is offline  
post #17 of 46 Old 03-28-2020, 09:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DavidinGA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: GA
Posts: 1,053
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 562 Post(s)
Liked: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
You would think Epson will have to make a 4K unit or get pushed out of the business.
It really goes to show just how good their pixel shifters have been vs native 4k competitors.

They're the best selling pj manufacturer in the world, they're definitely not worried about getting pushed out of business...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

--------------------------------------------------
Epson 5040, 150" 16:9 1.1gain, Source: HTPC w/madVR, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofers: 1 MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D. 4 diy Slim VBSS 18" Subs w/NX3000D.
DavidinGA is offline  
post #18 of 46 Old 03-28-2020, 10:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
Lygren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 527
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbpaddler View Post
Maybe they'll finally adjust their marketing and stop with the false advertising of their 2k shifters. Using the term "4k enhanced" is just a flat out lie, but who's going to buy a "Full HD Enhanced" or "2k" projector even if they have great image quality?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Well, although the 4K term might be a bit misleading they do accept 4K input in full bandwidth and pixel shift some of that added data to the screen... They also have quite impressive HDR tone mapping applied, although not on the level of JVC (but better than Sony). I guess the accurate term would be 2K+, but I guess that would not work very well marketing wise. Main challenge for JVC right now is their premium price, and in my opinion they should have kept on to their ‘4K’ shifters for at least a year longer than what they did as they gave so much of the market to Epson by not doing so...

Still, I certainly would like to see 4K native from Epson as well, too bad their reflective tech seems to be so hard to get a move on for...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Proudly Representing DreamScreen.no // ScreenAcoustics.com // AT screens & more!
Founder AVforum.no // Norway´s leading AV community since 2002
Lygren is online now  
post #19 of 46 Old 03-28-2020, 11:03 AM
Senior Member
 
dbpaddler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
Well, although the 4K term might be a bit misleading they do accept 4K input in full bandwidth and pixel shift some of that added data to the screen... They also have quite impressive HDR tone mapping applied, although not on the level of JVC (but better than Sony). I guess the accurate term would be 2K+, but I guess that would not work very well marketing wise. Main challenge for JVC right now is their premium price, and in my opinion they should have kept on to their ‘4K’ shifters for at least a year longer than what they did as they gave so much of the market to Epson by not doing so...

Still, I certainly would like to see 4K native from Epson as well, too bad their reflective tech seems to be so hard to get a move on for...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's not a point of how good the projector is or it's capabilities. If it's not throwing the 4k amount of pixels it's not a 4k projector. It's a marketing gimmick. Just like when t-mobile was calling its hspda network 4g when it wasn't. It might have hit speeds to qualify it in that realm, but it was still 3g tech, and of course AT&T and such took notice of it and complained to the FCC.

Accepting a 4k signal doesn't make it a 4k projector in any way shape or form. 4k enhanced implies it's doing an enhanced version of 4k or something better than straight 4k. Not taking 108p and upscaling it. It's deceptive and false marketing.

Would it stop me from buying one if it fit the bill? No. I'm just tired of bad marketing schemes and such. And yes I know I'm opinionated.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
Mike Garrett likes this.
dbpaddler is offline  
post #20 of 46 Old 03-28-2020, 11:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Aztar35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,523
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2881 Post(s)
Liked: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by maglito View Post
Epson Pro L12000QNL

Perhaps HT version is not far off?

It would be good to know the panel size and native contrast ratio to see if those panels are truly home theater bound...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Commercial so not really relevant but I would say that if you could use it in a home situation the 1200:1 native contrast wouldn't be a problem as you could use one of those black screens. LOL

Guys it's only a matter of time before Epson release an fully 4K Native projector, the problem for most normal people who generally buy Epson over Sony/JVC is a 4K Native from Epson will be more expensive than most would want to pay.

I get very excited about the thought of Epson possibly releasing a new home theater projector. First of all, as far as that 1,200:1 contrast number...we don't know that. The commercial version is a 12,000 lumen machine -- 12,000 lumens! Of course, with that kind of light output, it would be unfair to expect LS10500 contrast and black levels.

I presume, if a home theater (HT) version is released, it will have less lumens which will result in better contrast. Epson HT projectors like the UB series and laser series are not known for poor black levels or poor contrast, and I suspect if this 8.3 mill pix or 8.8 mill pix version makes it into the high end HT market, it will have good enough contrast.

Mind you, this is all speculation. But seriously, the company's history with its UB and laser series belies any notion of an Epson HT PJ having only 1,200:1 native contrast.
Aztar35 is offline  
post #21 of 46 Old 03-28-2020, 03:14 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27,874
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13490 Post(s)
Liked: 11118
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
Well, although the 4K term might be a bit misleading they do accept 4K input in full bandwidth and pixel shift some of that added data to the screen... They also have quite impressive HDR tone mapping applied, although not on the level of JVC (but better than Sony). I guess the accurate term would be 2K+, but I guess that would not work very well marketing wise. Main challenge for JVC right now is their premium price, and in my opinion they should have kept on to their ‘4K’ shifters for at least a year longer than what they did as they gave so much of the market to Epson by not doing so...

Still, I certainly would like to see 4K native from Epson as well, too bad their reflective tech seems to be so hard to get a move on for...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In the US, JVC is still manufacturing the RS540 E-shift projector. I think it will continue until September.
Lygren likes this.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #22 of 46 Old 03-29-2020, 12:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MidnightWatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 5,619
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked: 235
I'd just like to see a smaller, lighter and brighter replacement for the LS10500, even if it's a shifter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Theater | Vero 4K | Epson 5030UB + Peerless PRG-UNV | 100" EluneVision Reference 4K Screen | Denon X3600H @ 5.2.4 | 4 x ADX Maximus w/ Dayton Audio SA230 | Polk Audio RTi A9 + CSi A6 + OWM3 + Micca M8C + SVS PC2000 + Monolith 15 | 40" HDTV w/ RPi4 & MovieNow! V4.x + DietPi FTP Server + 4 x 8TB HDDs + 4 x DLink DHP-701AV
MidnightWatcher is offline  
post #23 of 46 Old 03-29-2020, 06:37 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27,874
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13490 Post(s)
Liked: 11118
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post
I'd just like to see a smaller, lighter and brighter replacement for the LS10500, even if it's a shifter.
I hope that never happens, because smaller and lighter means higher noise level, especially if made brighter. My wish list would be brighter and higher native contrast. Also native 4K.
Luminated67 and Nima like this.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #24 of 46 Old 03-29-2020, 05:02 PM
Member
 
danlw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
Main challenge for JVC right now is their premium price, and in my opinion they should have kept on to their ‘4K’ shifters for at least a year longer than what they did as they gave so much of the market to Epson by not doing so...
I think JVC should refresh the X790 into an "NX-3". Pixel shifting, contrast, and black levels of the X790, tone mapping, improved HDMI sync, and other improvements of the NX series, albeit not native 4K.

That said, first to come to market with an <$5000 Laser/LED projector with lens memory, tone mapping, and decent contrast gets my money. There are several solid state light engine projectors under that price point... but none of them have lens memory and decent contrast and some form of 4K (whether native or enhanced).
Lygren likes this.

I am DanLW.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1341
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/member...103-danlw.html
danlw2 is offline  
post #25 of 46 Old 03-29-2020, 05:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MidnightWatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 5,619
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by danlw2 View Post
I think JVC should refresh the X790 into an "NX-3". Pixel shifting, contrast, and black levels of the X790, tone mapping, improved HDMI sync, and other improvements of the NX series, albeit not native 4K.

That said, first to come to market with an <$5000 Laser/LED projector with lens memory, tone mapping, and decent contrast gets my money. There are several solid state light engine projectors under that price point... but none of them have lens memory and decent contrast and some form of 4K (whether native or enhanced).
Same here. I'm ready to upgrade from my 5030, just waiting for the right laser-based PJ to come along. If the NZ3 had better blacks/contrast I'd be buying one.
MidnightWatcher is offline  
post #26 of 46 Old 03-30-2020, 06:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,371
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 898 Post(s)
Liked: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbpaddler View Post
It's not a point of how good the projector is or it's capabilities. If it's not throwing the 4k amount of pixels it's not a 4k projector. It's a marketing gimmick. Just like when t-mobile was calling its hspda network 4g when it wasn't. It might have hit speeds to qualify it in that realm, but it was still 3g tech, and of course AT&T and such took notice of it and complained to the FCC.

Accepting a 4k signal doesn't make it a 4k projector in any way shape or form. 4k enhanced implies it's doing an enhanced version of 4k or something better than straight 4k. Not taking 108p and upscaling it. It's deceptive and false marketing.

Would it stop me from buying one if it fit the bill? No. I'm just tired of bad marketing schemes and such. And yes I know I'm opinionated.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
If your opinion is this then DPLs shouldn't be allowed to call theirs 4K either because only NATIVE 4K should be right called 4K. Oh and whilst you are complaining about Epson can you please write a similar letter to JVC as well with reference to their NX9 which isn't 8K neither.

Up until I compared my 9400 against a Sony 360es I was all on for making the switch to a Native 4K machine sooner rather than later but to be honest I didn't see any difference from my usual viewing distance and frankly I don't enjoy the whole immersive experience so for me the idea of an x790 with frame by frame Dynamic tonal Mapping would be a lot more appealing to me personally..... though I doubt this will even happen.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)

Last edited by Luminated67; 03-30-2020 at 06:33 AM.
Luminated67 is offline  
post #27 of 46 Old 03-30-2020, 07:01 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27,874
Mentioned: 279 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13490 Post(s)
Liked: 11118
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
If your opinion is this then DPLs shouldn't be allowed to call theirs 4K either because only NATIVE 4K should be right called 4K. Oh and whilst you are complaining about Epson can you please write a similar letter to JVC as well with reference to their NX9 which isn't 8K neither.

Up until I compared my 9400 against a Sony 360es I was all on for making the switch to a Native 4K machine sooner rather than later but to be honest I didn't see any difference from my usual viewing distance and frankly I don't enjoy the whole immersive experience so for me the idea of an x790 with frame by frame Dynamic tonal Mapping would be a lot more appealing to me personally..... though I doubt this will even happen.
A subtle distinction. JVC calls the RS3000/NX9 8K e-shift. Epson and all the DLP manufacturers call their e-shift projectors 4K.
JVC: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL102550
Epson: https://epson.com/For-Home/Projector...p/V11H928020MB
BenQ: https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector...ro-cinema.html

I do agree. I don't think the DLP's should call their projectors 4K either. That does not mean that the technology is vastly inferior in regards to resolution, it just means it is not native 4K.

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 03-30-2020 at 07:07 AM.
Mike Garrett is online now  
post #28 of 46 Old 03-30-2020, 07:39 AM
Senior Member
 
dbpaddler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
If your opinion is this then DPLs shouldn't be allowed to call theirs 4K either because only NATIVE 4K should be right called 4K. Oh and whilst you are complaining about Epson can you please write a similar letter to JVC as well with reference to their NX9 which isn't 8K neither.



Up until I compared my 9400 against a Sony 360es I was all on for making the switch to a Native 4K machine sooner rather than later but to be honest I didn't see any difference from my usual viewing distance and frankly I don't enjoy the whole immersive experience so for me the idea of an x790 with frame by frame Dynamic tonal Mapping would be a lot more appealing to me personally..... though I doubt this will even happen.
Sorry, but no. They don't call themselves native 4k. "true 4k" seems to be the adopted term for shifters that throw the required pixels for 4k res. Unless you can show me a 4x dlp shifter that advertises itself as "native 4k". But I'm guessing you can't. And the Epson's throw half that. Yet they not only call themselves 4k, but they call it "Enhanced 4k" which would imply that it is better than "just 4k" which simply isn't the case. It's really "Enhanced 1080", but there is zero sizzle in that from a marketing/sales perspective.

Faux K: Epson 2x and didn't older jvc e-shift do 2x shifting? And what mfg would want to call their product fake 4k? But that's what it is. And isn't that where that term originated? The initial shifters that just doubled 1080.

True 4k: shifters that throw the 8mil+ pixels to paint a 4k res image on screen.

Native 4k: Actual 4k panels be it 3 lcd/lcos or single dlp with a wheel.

Just call a spade a spade.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

Last edited by dbpaddler; 03-30-2020 at 07:45 AM.
dbpaddler is offline  
post #29 of 46 Old 03-30-2020, 10:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,371
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 898 Post(s)
Liked: 494
^Only Native 4K is truly 4K the rest are shifters whether that’s JVC/Epson or DLPs and this is why there is a distinction between the three technologies.

Don’t get my wrong both Native and True offer better resolution to Enhanced.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
Luminated67 is offline  
post #30 of 46 Old 03-30-2020, 11:30 AM
Senior Member
 
Debonaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 299
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
A subtle distinction. JVC calls the RS3000/NX9 8K e-shift. Epson and all the DLP manufacturers call their e-shift projectors 4K.
JVC: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL102550
Epson: https://epson.com/For-Home/Projector...p/V11H928020MB
BenQ: https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector...ro-cinema.html

I do agree. I don't think the DLP's should call their projectors 4K either. That does not mean that the technology is vastly inferior in regards to resolution, it just means it is not native 4K.
What I don't get is why the DLP "shifter" isn't native? The technology temporally shifts, which is much different.

The way DLP technology with a wheel works, colors are "monochrome" by your definition too.

It's unfair to then not call them native. Every single pixel is on the screen shifted. Each mirror's switching time is about 10 microseconds, meaning each pixel can get shifted 1,667 times per frame. Not a single pixel isn't addressed. If you took a picture, all UHD pixels would be present.

Therefore DLP 4k is nothing like how LCD shifters work which takes a 1920x1080 downscaled 4k source to produce an upscaled 2k image.
Debonaire is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off