I'll just go and buy a TV, honestly... - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 31Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post
[/SPOILER]What city do you live in or what city would be near your town? My reason for asking is that we over a million members at AVS. It maybe that someone within a reasonable drive might have one or both of the projectors you are looking at? I know I've hosted and gone to members homes in Kansas City to view their set up. We have a forum dedicated to regional/city meets.

As far as JVC....I'm a huge fan, so I definitely have bias. I wouldn't be able to compare the JVC to the epson. I haven't owned an epson in years. That being said, I recently sold our home, which included all the home theater equipment. When it came time to restart my HT and pick out a projector, I decided to stay with the same model vs the newer JVC's. Why? I liked the image and knew it's pros and cons. I didn't want to deal with relearning a new projector and working through the bugs of a new model. It's a lazy proposition, but firing up my JVC 540, I was happy to (re)own that model.
Ron mate, bless.

I do not live in the United States, I live in Sweden, the cost for traveling outweigh the consideration of buying an NX5/NX7.

Not that easy for you to know, well, at least now you do.

I'm incredibly thankful for your offerings and suggestions, I'm basically on the same level as you, I think if I would see these in reality, I would pick the JVC over and over again.

I do not feel the need of the newer JVC line up, I think I'm fully satisfied with the older generation, also considering it to be a GREAT entry-level projector, if you even can call it that.

2 years ago it was the second best there ever was, basically like todays NX7 in price/performance ratio.


I could not complain, I even get to try out the JVC at home, sending it back as long as it doesn't have 20 hours on the lamp, very generous offer.

I would have the time to decide myself, my screen samples should be arriving long before the projector, cannot wait to try some stuff out.

Thanks, Ron!
rboster likes this.

Last edited by Vitus4K; 04-15-2020 at 05:49 AM.
Vitus4K is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamd View Post
I’m very happy with my setup. I have a 110 inch alr screen with a x790r in a non light controlled room as well. I have white ceilings and a wood floors. I get a incredible picture and could not be more happy. I have no issues with brightness in hdr. My screen is supposed to be 1.5 gain but people say it’s more like a 1.2. I used to have a 77 oled before I went to the projector and I would do it again in a second. I also mounted a frame tv for days I don’t want the room in darkness.
Pictures never justify a JVC, or an Epson for that matter, but more so a JVC.

I can tell by your feet that you're satisfied, you have a higher gain screen than what I plan to use, I'll see what a 1.0 gain fabric might yield me in my environment.

It's good to know you're coming from an OLED, I myself come from a 65" C7, couldn't complain about the picture, but it's super small at 17 feet back.

I know 118" 2.40:1 is rather small at 17 feet too, but it's the best I can do, I don't think it'll disappoint.


Do you know how long your throw is?

Thanks for your input and pictures!
Vitus4K is offline  
post #63 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 05:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Adamd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,208
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1298 Post(s)
Liked: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamd View Post
I’️m very happy with my setup. I have a 110 inch alr screen with a x790r in a non light controlled room as well. I have white ceilings and a wood floors. I get a incredible picture and could not be more happy. I have no issues with brightness in hdr. My screen is supposed to be 1.5 gain but people say it’️s more like a 1.2. I used to have a 77 oled before I went to the projector and I would do it again in a second. I also mounted a frame tv for days I don’️t want the room in darkness.
Pictures never justify a JVC, or an Epson for that matter, but more so a JVC.

I can tell by your feet that you're satisfied, you have a higher gain screen than what I plan to use, I'll see what a 1.0 gain fabric might yield me in my environment.

It's good to know you're coming from an OLED, I myself come from a 65" C7, couldn't complain about the picture, but it's super small at 17 feet back.

I know 118" 2.40:1 is rather small at 17 feet too, but it's the best I can do, I don't think it'll disappoint.


Do you know how long your throw is?

Thanks for your input and pictures!
It’s right at 12 feet. The Jvc does not match oled picture quality of course but it’s still an amazing picture. And what you get in size and cinematic look more then makes up for it. I’ve had this setup for 3 months or so and have put on 300 hours. I do not use the DI so I have not seen any pumping just a very stable beautiful picture. With masking the contrast on this thing is as close as your going to get to oled picture for a projector. Gaming on the x790r is really good. Really low input lag in 4k mode.
Adamd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #64 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamd View Post
It’s right at 12 feet. The Jvc does not match oled picture quality of course but it’s still an amazing picture. And what you get in size and cinematic look more then makes up for it. I’ve had this setup for 3 months or so and have put on 300 hours. I do not use the DI so I have not seen any pumping just a very stable beautiful picture. With masking the contrast on this thing is as close as your going to get to oled picture for a projector. Gaming on the x790r is really good. Really low input lag in 4k mode.
Thank you!
Vitus4K is offline  
post #65 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Projector Central's throw calculator says 1.37x zoom (telephoto) while @coderguy calculator says 1.54x zoom (wide).

Same input data, different results.

Which one is correct?

I tried calculating on my own, but I think the formula is more complex and with more variables than just throw and screen width.

Help is appreciated.
Vitus4K is offline  
post #66 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 07:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Archibald1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,802
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2883 Post(s)
Liked: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
Clever system, however, I have a cat, and my wife falls in the same category, both are not suitable with this kind of solution.
Comment of the week for me there! I laughed out loud at that one. I feel you man, I feel you.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up." Stephen Hawking.
"Be water my friend." Bruce Lee.
Archibald1 is offline  
post #67 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 09:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,806
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1241 Post(s)
Liked: 1044
I can’t speak for setting the projector at its minimum zoom (maximum distance away from screen) but I’m running mine just sly of maximum zoom and I can tell you that HDR is not a problem for me in the slightest. In fact if I wished I can run with filter and low lamp mode but it’s actually been calibrated for mid lamp mode.

Can it run as bright as my OLED in the main living room? NO but when the screen is approximately 60% bigger I could not cope if it was as bright, the guy who calibrated mine gave me two setups for HDR, one with the filter and one without, frankly no one can watch more than 20 minutes on the setup without the filter because it would burn the eyes out of your. I think the big difference with using a projector with screen and watching a TV is that with the projector you generally turn all the lights off for serious movie watching and your eyes adjust to this darker environment so you don’t seem to need the same amount of lumens to achieve a convincing HDR experience.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)

Movie Image collection
Luminated67 is offline  
post #68 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 09:19 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,068
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3019 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
Projector Central's throw calculator says 1.37x zoom (telephoto) while @coderguy calculator says 1.54x zoom (wide).

Same input data, different results.

Which one is correct?

I tried calculating on my own, but I think the formula is more complex and with more variables than just throw and screen width.

Help is appreciated.
If you are referring to the actual Zoom value, well 1.5x zoom distance or using the F-stop value to show the zoom range, that's semantics. It doesn't affect the calculation as both the total RANGE of zoom is the same in both cases, as long as the throw is calculated the same. The zoom range is just shown there as a represented value, and it doesn't affect any position calculations. Generally, for visual calculators at least, the zoom value should be the mathematical difference in distance, rather than showing the F-stop value as PJC does it (read why below).

I have had all these discussions in the past with others, such as why do I not use F-stops. Well, for the same reason that review sites use T-stops and not F-stops. Since my calculator uses data from review sites (not estimating), then I use the T-stop method in the calculator as well, which is based on averaging multiple reviewers measurements and figuring the distance based on averaging the mid-zoom and extreme ranges, rather than the actual F-stop affect of the lens. PJC is not consistent here, as they are mixing together both methods (T-stop measurements and F-stop estimates). I am honestly not sure why they do it this way, as it increases the error margins greatly, because trying to mix F-stops and T-stops together requires statistical correction and is beyond the scope of a projector calculator. For instance, if a pro lighting guy needs to set something up based on a lens ability, he will want the T-stop number and not the F-stop number.

Except for lens memory (which AFIK PJC does not support), then both my calculator and PJC give roughly the same results in 16:9 for Epson 5050 and JVC RS-540, based on throw numbers. I usually use MFR spec in most of the values, there is usually a couple inches of wiggle room, but the calculations should be the same, or usually within a few inches depending on which throw numbers we used.

See screenshot:



For instance, if I select 120" 16:9 on the JVC RS-520, it shows 12'3 to 24'6, exactly the same on both calculators.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 04-15-2020 at 10:51 AM.
coderguy is offline  
post #69 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 10:26 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,068
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3019 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
If you are still not sure, then this article below explains it better than I can:

https://petapixel.com/2016/12/30/f-s...plain-english/

Edit
Just noticed also on the new PJC calculator, their slider has a sensitivity bug. I'm not sure if they are trying to calculate the zoom based on F-stop mods or if they are just having issues with their zoom slider. In the old version, they were definitely mixing F-stops and T-stops together though, and sometimes using only F-stops, while other times using a mix.

It is unnecessary and improper to give any F-stop data in correlation with the T-stop light transmission with a projector calculator, because there is no simple baseline without using a logarithm combined with other corrective math, which makes it too hard to visualize the data, especially for someone that uses these things casually (which is most people). The markers are also not often available on projector lenses, so it doesn't actually provide any reference point. It also incorrectly infers the idea that we should be using F-stops instead of T-stops. Now in camera lenses there is a somewhat acceptable error magnitude, but in projector lenses the magnitude of error is much greater when speaking about F-stops vs T-stops.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 04-15-2020 at 12:20 PM.
coderguy is offline  
post #70 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I can’️t speak for setting the projector at its minimum zoom (maximum distance away from screen) but I’️m running mine just sly of maximum zoom and I can tell you that HDR is not a problem for me in the slightest. In fact if I wished I can run with filter and low lamp mode but it’️s actually been calibrated for mid lamp mode.

Can it run as bright as my OLED in the main living room? NO but when the screen is approximately 60% bigger I could not cope if it was as bright, the guy who calibrated mine gave me two setups for HDR, one with the filter and one without, frankly no one can watch more than 20 minutes on the setup without the filter because it would burn the eyes out of your. I think the big difference with using a projector with screen and watching a TV is that with the projector you generally turn all the lights off for serious movie watching and your eyes adjust to this darker environment so you don’️t seem to need the same amount of lumens to achieve a convincing HDR experience.
Very well put, useful information for someone like me with zero previous experience with projectors.

This has actually been one of my concerns as well, ending up with a too bright of an image, unable to lower it to a comfortable 3 hour session.

On the other hand, my first concern was not having/getting enough brightness, so both these arguments are in conflict with eachother.

The most sensible way would be not going crazy on brightness as this seems to be what most people recommend.

It's quite logical as well, with a TV, you tend to light up the environment to ease the strain on the eyes.

With projectors, the opposite is most likely going to be the case, as the screen gets larger and takes up more of your vision.

I could not of put it better, well done!
Luminated67 likes this.
Vitus4K is offline  
post #71 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 12:55 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,068
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3019 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
My personal max screen size for the JVC would be 130" 16:9 at 1.0 gain or 1.3 gain for up to about 150", basing this on my experience with my RS-420. I wouldn't want to change the lamps every 1500 hours. Although these JVC lamps are quite amazing compared to every other projector I've ever owned, they still lose brightness gradually. Anything bigger than 130" 16:9, needs gain to be optimal, sure you can still use it, but it's not going to be as punchy in all circumstances.

That is Epson's big advantage, the lumens, also the HDR is easier than the older JVC's.

Most people would get used to worse black levels easier than the features you lose with the higher resolution on the NX. Also, if you are a gamer (sorry didn't read the entire thread), but then the NX series is better for the higher-res, as e-shift isn't useful in games.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is offline  
post #72 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
If you are still not sure, then this article below explains it better than I can.

https://petapixel.com/2016/12/30/f-s...plain-english/
I'm speechless, you're doing Gods work, mate.

I didn't even get half of what you wrote, but you've convinced me more than enough to use and trust your calculator instead of PJC's.

Seems logical to have data based on both MFR's and reported numbers, and filtering out the noise that doesn't make sense or add up to a proper equation.

You seem to of thought of everything in there, can't do nothing but to thank you!

I'll rely on 1.54x zoom, nothing else.

I wish I could contribute similarly to what you've all done in this thread, however my knowledge is very limited but I try as much as possible to calculate on my own.

One should not ignore what's already been done and what's already accessible out there, but hey, no wrong in asking!

I had a good question, your answer was even better!

Thank you, kudos!
Vitus4K is offline  
post #73 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 01:02 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,068
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3019 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
I'll rely on 1.54x zoom, nothing else.
Believe it or not, most of the projectors, including JVC, don't have any way to show you what zoom position or lens shift you are using.

I wish the MFR's did show zoom and lens shift usage #'s, it would be great if my PJ said I am using 1.2x zoom of 2.x available, or I am at X/Y pos. The zoom on the lens isn't even marked on most units, so there is no way to actually know how much zoom you are using, except by relative distance, or unless you hit the max. Well, there are other ways, but I mean simple reference methods.

So even if you know your zoom, it won't matter much as long as you just know you are in the allowable range of zoom and not exceeding your mounting location potential.

Thanks for the comments, but I haven't worked on the calculator in a long time, it's a lot of maintenance work that doesn't pay anything. PJC has a monetizable method and review site, so they are able to keep adding new projectors as it helps their revenue, I have no projector revenue as I am not in this industry.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 04-15-2020 at 01:06 PM.
coderguy is offline  
post #74 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
My personal max screen size for the JVC would be 130" 16:9 at 1.0 gain or 1.3 gain for up to about 150", basing this on my experience with my RS-420. I wouldn't want to change the lamps every 1500 hours. Although these JVC lamps are quite amazing compared to every other projector I've ever owned, they still lose brightness gradually. Anything bigger than 130" 16:9, needs gain to be optimal, sure you can still use it, but it's not going to be as punchy in all circumstances.

That is Epson's big advantage, the lumens, also the HDR is easier than the older JVC's.

Most people would get used to worse black levels easier than the features you lose with the higher resolution on the NX. Also, if you are a gamer (sorry didn't read the entire thread), but then the NX series is better for the higher-res, as e-shift isn't useful in games.
Good post, I would be at 124" 16:9, to put into perspective, although, after masking/blanking I would be 26% less in the vertical meaurement, decreasing height to 118" 2.40:1.

That at least within your preference, and to my advantage.

I'm not sure HDR is what I want out of projection, sure it's nice if it's possible to get there with good tone mapping, but I think I put other aspects in front of that as a first time projector owner.

To name a few, black level, color, motion etc.

I don't think I would complain with a 2.4 gamma and SDR2020, heck, I don't think I would complain with 20fL and SDR709!

I'm not a gamer, I'm all about movies and all about cinemascope 2.40:1, there is such a feeling in that presentation that cannot be put into words combined with the things I pointed out above.

Immersion, maybe?

I would love to be able to show a home- (marketing) IMAX presentation, meaning a variable aspect ratio, switching between 16:9 and 2.40:1 or similar.

But let's not dwell into that, I have no room for 16:9, so I'm more than satisfied with a 118" 2.40:1 presentation.

Also, I could not live with a 16:9 screen having lit up letterbox bars in bright scenes once going through 2.40:1 scenes, they would not be black!

With an Epson, going with a physical 2.40:1 screen, the letterboxing might not be an issue as the brightness coming from the image area sits in front of the wall (screen sitting a few inches out from the wall) so the brightness would have to do quite the work to bend and go around the edge to lit it up.

The JVC would probably have much easier to cope with a 16:9 screen, but it might still light up, no guarantee.

With the Epson there are however other parts you need to take into consideration, such as dark scenes when black needs to be projectes on the actual screen, and here there is no forgiveness.

Let's not forget I'm coming from a 65" OLED which in 2.40:1 maybe equals to an image height similar to 50" 16:9.

I'm getting twice the height of that with 2.40:1.

Finally I don't think Epson's brightness will make me cooperate with the blacks that it performs/supplies.

As said previously, blacks, colors, motion.

I think JVC wins in those categories.

Last edited by Vitus4K; 04-15-2020 at 01:21 PM.
Vitus4K is offline  
post #75 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 01:18 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,561
Mentioned: 289 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14016 Post(s)
Liked: 11685
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
Very well put, useful information for someone like me with zero previous experience with projectors.

This has actually been one of my concerns as well, ending up with a too bright of an image, unable to lower it to a comfortable 3 hour session.

On the other hand, my first concern was not having/getting enough brightness, so both these arguments are in conflict with eachother.

The most sensible way would be not going crazy on brightness as this seems to be what most people recommend.

It's quite logical as well, with a TV, you tend to light up the environment to ease the strain on the eyes.

With projectors, the opposite is most likely going to be the case, as the screen gets larger and takes up more of your vision.

I could not of put it better, well done!
Too much brightness? That is pretty funny, since 99.9% of the projector owners out there, would not complain, if they had even more brightness. The JVC and Epson have a manual iris that is used, along with lamp power to adjust the brightness.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #76 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 01:20 PM
Senior Member
 
ivanhoek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
Good post, I would be at 124" 16:9, to put into perspective, although, after masking/blanking I would be 26% less in the vertical meaurement, decreasing height to 118" 2.40:1.

That at least within your preference, and to my advantage.

I'm not sure HDR is what I want out of projection, sure it's nice if it's possible to get there with good tone mapping, but I think I put other aspects in front of that as a first time projector owner.

To name a few, black level, color, motion etc.

I don't think I would complain with a 2.4 gamma and SDR2020, heck, I don't think I would complain with 20fL and SDR709!

I'm not a gamer, I'm all about movies and all about cinemascope 2.40:1, there is such a feeling in that presentation that cannot be put into words combined with the things I pointed out above.

Immersion, maybe?

I would love to be able to show a home- (marketing) IMAX presentation, meaning a variable aspect ratio, switching between 16:9 and 2.40:1 or similar.

But let's not dwell into that, I have no room for 16:9, so I'm more than satisfied with a 118" 2.40:1 presentation.

Let's not forget I'm coming from a 65" OLED which in 2.40:1 maybe equals to an image height similar to 50" 16:9.

I'm getting twice the height of that with 2.40:1.

Finally I don't think Epson's brightness will make me cooperate with the blacks that it performs/supplies.

As said previously, blacks, colors, motion.

I think JVC wins in those categories.

The consensus in this forum is that the only projector worth buying is a JVC. One gets an Epson or Sony for special reasons or perhaps cost.

Just the way it is... if I had $8k or so right now to throw at a projector I’d have an NX7 too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ivanhoek is offline  
post #77 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 01:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,068
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3019 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
Much of the content is HDR these days, but you can watch HDR in SDR mode and do different things to the image.

As your first projector, I would really push you back towards the NX series, but it's your preference, so I'm not sure what someone else would really prefer. The main difference is if you sit close enough, then otherwise it's not a big difference other than all the conveniences.

The biggest feature I miss from the NX series besides the automatic tone-mapping is the ability to save manual masking settings in the lens memory. Those 2 features are one reason to consider the NX series.

120" CIH is what I'm using as well, it's more than bright enough, even at 1.0 gain or even with slight negative gain.

As a matter of fact, the first 200 hours, it was TOO bright for me even with the lens aperture all the way closed. However, it's fairly easy to compensate for too much brightness just with some gamma mods, too little brightness is the REAL problem. We rarely discuss too much brightness in here.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is offline  
post #78 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
As your first projector, I would really push you back towards the NX series, but it's your preference, so I'm not sure what someone else would really prefer. The main difference is if you sit close enough, then otherwise it's not a big difference other than all the conveniences.

The biggest feature I miss from the NX series besides the automatic tone-mapping is the ability to save manual masking settings in the lens memory. Those 2 features are one reason to consider the NX series.
At 17' I have a hard time justifying the NX series in terms of resolution.

DTM is nice and all, but I think we're in the very early days of affordable DTM solutions for projectors.

I have my fingers crossed for a Panasonic with DTM, maybe IFA2020?


About lens memory, I understand that the older generation JVC's are more 'global' in their masking than the NX series.

I basically just need a very simple solution.

2 buttons on the remote, 1 button where I remove 2.40:1 masking and reveal the whole 16:9 image, and one button where the masking is applied.

No need for lens adjustment or motorized movements.

This sure must be possible with the X790R?
Vitus4K is offline  
post #79 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 01:42 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,068
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3019 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
There are a lot of variables in that question, it depends how you will be doing masking panels.

Also, you should check out the Blacker is better thread below...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...image-245.html

Yes and no, the RS-540 definitely does everything you need, but as a first time user...

How you think you will use the PJ is likely slightly different than how you may actually use it. You may end up sitting closer?

At 17' from that screen size, I agree, the NX series offers no resolution benefit, even after using the zoom method.

I would guess you will want to sit closer eventually, that's way too far back, I sit 8-10' from that screen size (varies on what I'm doing, PC vs movies).

The different aspect ratios with streaming content is VERY annoying, so being able to just watch slightly different aspects without re-adjusting the masking settings and just clipping some stuff out is easier than on my RS-420. With my RS-420, I have to manually adjust sometimes, or move physically move my panels slightly if I want to watch things perfectly masked.

So a lot of it just depends. I got my RS-420 for a very low price, so the difference was like 5x more for the NX-5 and 4x more for the RS-540. So it was an easy decision for me just to live with it.

Plus I am not watching as much on my projector as I used to watch, I think I've seen EVERY movie I want to see right now. Or, at least I've seen every movie I know about that I want to see... Need to wait until the inventory ramps back up, as I've run out of things to watch, burnout.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 04-15-2020 at 01:46 PM.
coderguy is offline  
post #80 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 01:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,556
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1997 Post(s)
Liked: 641
Vitus4K there are a lot of assumptions that will change once you spend some time with the unit. It would be better to get a very cheap model instead of jumping head first into a JVC projector.
noob00224 is online now  
post #81 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Too much brightness? That is pretty funny, since 99.9% of the projector owners out there, would not complain, if they had even more brightness. The JVC and Epson have a manual iris that is used, along with lamp power to adjust the brightness.
Mike, please tell me what to expect out of the JVC then.

The below is based on what you all have been saying in this thread:


1300 lumens (with filter, full wide @Javs) 28.6fL (97 nits), fresh lamp, -12% = 1144 lumen (1.54x zoom) 25.2fL (86 nits)

1440 lumens (with filter, full wide @Mike Garrett) 31.7fL (108 nits), fresh lamp, -12% = 1267 lumen (1.54x zoom) 27.9fL (95 nits)

1500 lumens (without filter, full wide), 33fL (113 nits), fresh lamp, -12% = 1320 lumen (1.54x zoom) 29.1fL (99 nits)

1600 lumens (without filter, full wide), 35.2fL (120 nits), fresh lamp, -12% = 1408 lumen (1.54x zoom) 31fL (106 nits)


You previously mentioned 1440 lumens, that's 1267 lumens (95 nits) on screen with a fresh lamp, taking my zoom into account.

That's not enough?


I know brightness is a very personal thing, more is always better etc.

But really, how much do you have, and is 95 nits like a bad purchase?


Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Too little brightness is the REAL problem. We rarely discuss too much brightness in here.
Please, elaborate on the above quote and response to Mike, would you say 95 nits is not enough?


Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
There are a lot of variables in that question, it depends how you will be doing masking panels.
I will use a 2.40:1 physical screen, always project a 16:9 image but with the letterboxes masked with the projectors masking capabilities.

I will configure two modes, 1 mode which reveals the full 16:9 image, and one mode which masks down to 2.40:1.


I will always mask for 2.40:1 when watching movies, doesn't matter if they are 2.35:1 or 2.20:1.

Zooming, changing the lens by motorization, will never take place, I will zoom it once, then leave it be.


The reveal for a full 16:9 image is only done in the case of having to navigate in the bluray menus etc.

Subtitles (if any) can be changed up and down with the Panasonic, the luminance level of the subtitles can also be adjusted.


Seating cannot be changed, 2nd row is 17', 1st row is 15'.

In Europe, that seating distance combined with the 118" 2.40:1 is a MASSIVE image, most people have 65" TV's for that exact same distance.

However, those people are not on these boards, discussing...


Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Vitus4K there are a lot of assumptions that will change once you spend some time with the unit. It would be better to get a very cheap model instead of jumping head first into a JVC projector.
Man, you're putting up too much conflict in my head, I was just about to proceed with the JVC.

The price difference between these units is not of issue to me, this thread and my worries is basically just about black levels and brightness.

For blacks, I've been investigating whether or not the Epson will do, but after lots of back and forth between you guys and other people, I decided the JVC will avoid a let down.


For brightness, I'm still not quite sure, some say 100 nits is not needed, other say as much as possible.

My stomach tells me too much brightness could strain my eyes with bright and dark scene switching, thunders etc.

A friend of mine has mentioned 104 nits is just about right in his living room, I may end up getting 95 nits.

I could adjust the JVC to accommodate for a higher nit level, but going all the way for an Epson seems like a mistake to me.

Maybe mounting the JVC closer is a better choice, obviously.
Vitus4K is offline  
post #82 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 02:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,443
Mentioned: 532 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7222 Post(s)
Liked: 6908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
At this point I feel it's all about the brightness.

After all, I want to watch 'The Dark Knight' and not the 'The Gray Knight', no offense.

Pretty much considering the JVC at this point.

Talked to several people yesterday who indeed implied that the JVC would benefit even from a darkened living room, even more so with a high contrast screen.

I have a dealer which has the very last RS-540/X790R/X7900 in stock, trying to figure out of I should pull the trigger on this one, I'm really tempted.


Summarizing the the thread somewhat, here's what it'd look like with the JVC:

+ 108" wide screen, 1.0 gain.
I strongly suggest you increase your screen gain to something like 1.3.

My JVC can hit very high contrast and so long as the room is suitably treated, you will see it on the screen. The extra gain really helps for HDR. I would not consider 1.0 gain unless you have a light cannon. These days you need all the help you can get.
Mike Garrett likes this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is online now  
post #83 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I strongly suggest you increase your screen gain to something like 1.3.

My JVC can hit very high contrast and so long as the room is suitably treated, you will see it on the screen. The extra gain really helps for HDR. I would not consider 1.0 gain unless you have a light cannon. These days you need all the help you can get.
Can you recommend such a screen with ALR properties?
Vitus4K is offline  
post #84 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 02:55 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,068
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3019 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
1.3 gain is great, but the only screen options I'm aware are the Stewart and this stuff (if you can get it in stock)
https://www.silverticketproducts.com...ant=2657438979

Second options means making your own screen.

Stewart is slightly better, but it costs a LOT more.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is offline  
post #85 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 02:57 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,068
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3019 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
Can you recommend such a screen with ALR properties?
Why do you think you need an ALR screen?

Keep in mind that screens almost all lie about the real gain, except the Stewart. All those ALR screens that claim to be 1.5, most of them are fake and are really 1.0 gain. So getting the right ALR screen is not a simple task.

You really don't want to buy the screen yet, get blackout cloth and use that temporarily and figure out the screen later. It's fairly simple to just tack blackout cloth. You're sitting so far back, the Blackout cloth will look just as good. It costs $30 and will look the same, especially from 12+ feet back. Finer screen materials and texture only make a difference when sitting closer.

You don't really NEED 1.3 gain, especially not on a new lamp. It's just nice to have for HDR that is mastered too dimly, but you don't need it.

I am using that screen size with 1.0 gain, I still use the fixed Iris at -8 for most content. I use aperture at 0 for HDR, but it's bright enough. Would I like some HDR to be brighter, yah sometimes, but not enough to really care that much.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is offline  
post #86 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Stewart's samples taste and smells like a million bucks, as much as I would want that, it's not an option, sadly.

I don't think a white screen is the best in my environment, or is that a misunderstanding?

White reflects a LOT of light.


Can that white fabric you linked be painted, or how do you achieve ALR with such a fabric?

Thanks for your help!
Vitus4K is offline  
post #87 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Why do you think you need an ALR screen?
Mate, I'm not sure, I've just considered an ALR screen because I'm in a living room.

If white is an option, I've been thinking completely wrong, then this might be easier than I first thought, much easier.
Vitus4K is offline  
post #88 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 03:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,443
Mentioned: 532 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7222 Post(s)
Liked: 6908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
Man, you're putting up too much conflict in my head, I was just about to proceed with the JVC.

The price difference between these units is not of issue to me, this thread and my worries is basically just about black levels and brightness.

For blacks, I've been investigating whether or not the Epson will do, but after lots of back and forth between you guys and other people, I decided the JVC will avoid a let down.


For brightness, I'm still not quite sure, some say 100 nits is not needed, other say as much as possible.

My stomach tells me too much brightness could strain my eyes with bright and dark scene switching, thunders etc.

A friend of mine has mentioned 104 nits is just about right in his living room, I may end up getting 95 nits.

I could adjust the JVC to accommodate for a higher nit level, but going all the way for an Epson seems like a mistake to me.

Maybe mounting the JVC closer is a better choice, obviously.
Dont worry about spending money 'right' the first time. I bought a 4K Sony for my first projector some years ago, at the time that may have been considered a bit crazy.

Regarding brightness, the JVC's radically incresse in contrast the more you stop down the iris, so ideally, you want more than enough brightness, and then adjust the iris to get say, 100 nits or so.

I currently use about 75 nits for HDR, even though I could get about 110 in high lamp, but I just use low because most of the time the tone mapping is so good you would have a hard time picking which mode you are in. The eyes get used to things very quickly. Remember a lot of us would watch SDR Bluray at about 50 nits, including when you visit the theatre, so with the headroom in HDR, you are still good to go. I watch SDR on my JVC at low lamp -10 on the iris which is just about 3/4 closed! The magic there is my contrast at that point is over 100k:1.

As I said before, increase your screen gain! thats the easiest way to get free brightness.

You dont want to run a projector full tilt and have no headroom for the lamp to age etc. So I wouldnt fixate on the brightness being too much (there is no such thing when you have an adjustable iris) so long as you could very comfortably pull off at least 75/80 nits, 100 is better. With more gain you might get even more.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is online now  
post #89 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 03:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,443
Mentioned: 532 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7222 Post(s)
Liked: 6908
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
1.3 gain is great, but the only screen options I'm aware are the Stewart and this stuff (if you can get it in stock)
https://www.silverticketproducts.com...ant=2657438979

Second options means making your own screen.

Stewart is slightly better, but it costs a LOT more.
There should be a ton of screens with near 1.3 gain.

Severtson is another option overseas, I am in Australia so we have a local manufacturer here which is good, but I wouldnt think the options are limited here, far from it.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is online now  
post #90 of 189 Old 04-15-2020, 03:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,068
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3019 Post(s)
Liked: 1604
You have a living room with dark gray front and mid-gray side walls, white ceiling, and waxed floor. Get a black temp throw rug you drag out only when watching movies, even just a big piece of black cloth you can drop in front of the screen when you are watching something that needs it. Look into temp ceiling treatments, I don't know.

There is really no way for us to tell you everything to do, because it depends on your own tastes, there are options though.

Well, I'd say get the ceiling painted if possible, but I guess that kind of work would be hard to do at the moment unless you did it yourself.

ALR is hard to say, I haven't seen that many ALR screens, but the ones I have seen, I wasn't impressed. It can help slightly, but not really. It's usually just a wash or the rooms they can help are so bad in the first place, that a TV would be better.

Your only real decision would be TV vs. projector I guess, as the thread says. TV has some benefits in your case, but you said only watching at night, so you can make a projector work too.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off