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post #31 of 53 Old 05-17-2020, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by magi1500 View Post
I wonder if they cancel CEDIA, would they still go back to San Diego next year or stay an extra year in Denver?

Personally, I’d be happy with price cuts to existing models and a software update to add DTM to the Sony lasers. Especially if they could swing significant price cuts (25% +)
Last week it was announced that CEDIA was still on for September.
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post #32 of 53 Old 05-18-2020, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Last week it was announced that CEDIA was still on for September.
Until the inevitable second wave happens...…

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #33 of 53 Old 05-18-2020, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Until the inevitable second wave happens...…
I still doubt it. They just cancelled International Broadcast Show in Amsterdam this morning which takes place around the same time as CEDIA. I just can't see how CEDIA can take place with people coming from all over the world. If they decide to have the show I doubt if many will come.

The other option is a virtual show this year. That is what IFA is doing. The big question is what new products will be offered or will the companies decide to delay introductions.
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post #34 of 53 Old 05-18-2020, 08:58 AM
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I still doubt it. They just cancelled International Broadcast Show in Amsterdam this morning which takes place around the same time as CEDIA. I just can't see how CEDIA can take place with people coming from all over the world. If they decide to have the show I doubt if many will come.

The other option is a virtual show this year. That is what IFA is doing. The big question is what new products will be offered or will the companies decide to delay introductions.
All the stuff I am interested in fulfils 95% of what I want it to do now, and with additional software tweaks will be ~100%.

So manufacturers of the world, we don't need more electronic waste being made down the chain through yet more new products with minimal updates, just support what is already there.
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post #35 of 53 Old 05-18-2020, 09:06 AM
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Let's get the quality and dynamics of 4K licked before we begin pushing 8K and 16K which are largely irrelevant, especially at the moment.
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“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #36 of 53 Old 05-18-2020, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
All the stuff I am interested in fulfils 95% of what I want it to do now, and with additional software tweaks will be ~100%.

So manufacturers of the world, we don't need more electronic waste being made down the chain through yet more new products with minimal updates, just support what is already there.
I agree that we probably have 95% of what I want but there is always something new. I just don't think it is the right time and the cost of introducing products with changes that can be made with software. JVC introduced DTM with Frame Adapt HDR with software. Sony could do the same and JVC could refine it.
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post #37 of 53 Old 05-18-2020, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by wombats View Post
HDMI 2.1 will be useful for many things other than gaming because presumably it will require a full overhaul of JVC's processing system. We're still limited to 4:2:2 Chroma on HDR10 content because the NX7 overrides 4:4:4 12-bit signals back to 4:2:2, so maybe upgrading to an HDMI 2.1 based system would remove whatever bottleneck they are encountering there. Furthermore, MadVR does a lot of its processing in 16-bit and then converts it to whatever the display can handle before sending it over the HDMI connection. Theoretically you could have MadVR send out 16-bit signals over an HDMI 2.1 connection as long as the projector accepts it.

Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) and Quick Frame Transport (QFT) are going to be great for gaming, but only if the engineers actually implement it in the projector. Hopefully they take the time to do that. Those features alone could get me to upgrade from my NX7.

There are still several small bugs and issues with the NX7 that need to be fixed, so I would be thrilled if all they do this year is give us another firmware update. Even just a fix update with no new features.

Don’t forget quick media switching for those who don’t enjoy waiting 10 seconds when they change inputs. And mandatory dynamic HDR metadata. And uncompressed audio via ARC (eARC).

All of these are probably of varying or minor importance individually, but they sum up to quite a bump. HDMI 2.1 is way more than just a gamer latency upgrade. More than an 8k/16k bandwidth upgrade.

The sort of weird thing is that existing AVRs have been promising they’re upgradable to HDMI 2.1 for awhile. One would think that means the next fleet will have it native. We are wound of at this weird point where clearly customers are expecting it, hence AVR manufacturers are promising it on what they sell today, but it’s not actually widely available so we don’t really know if display manufacturers are going to drag their feet and end up behind the existing install base when those upgrades do come, or if they’re going to prepare - especially considering the age of many of the flagship models.

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post #38 of 53 Old 05-18-2020, 09:27 AM
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Don’t forget quick media switching for those who don’t enjoy waiting 10 seconds when they change inputs.
As far as I am aware, the main reason for delays in input switching is the infernal HDCP protocol waiting until everything is in order on all devices in the chain.

What makes anyone think it would be any better with HDMI 2.xx with sprinkles on top?

Ironically the encryption was beaten ages ago as is evidenced by all those ripping UHDs etc to HDDs.

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post #39 of 53 Old 05-18-2020, 09:47 AM
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New Projectors 2020

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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
As far as I am aware, the main reason for delays in input switching is the infernal HDCP protocol waiting until everything is in order on all devices in the chain.

What makes anyone think it would be any better with HDMI 2.xx with sprinkles on top?

Ironically the encryption was beaten ages ago as is evidenced by all those ripping UHDs etc to HDDs.

It happens even with a single connection between two simple devices. The reason we would hope it to be better is because it’s actually a documented feature in HDMI 2.1 - it’s called QMS.

The HDCP handshake is only a part of the HDMI connection setup - a big chunk is the set up of refresh rate and resolution. You can see this in an existing active connection - change the refresh rate on your PC settings, or try out a different video mode on your media player, and watch it take a few seconds to recover and display an image. This is a portion of happens as well with every input change.
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post #40 of 53 Old 05-18-2020, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Until the inevitable second wave happens...…
I do not know if CEDIA will actually happen, but at some point, we are going to have to move forward. If a vaccine can be developed, it would make it a much better solution. If no vaccine, then we are going to have to develop herd immunity. That does not sound fun. If CEDIA does happen, I have not decided if I will attend.
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post #41 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 11:14 AM
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I just saw there there is now a change of plans and that IFA will take place Sept 3-5 and will only be open to the trade this year with limited admissions each day.
They had originally planed a virtual show. Wondering if CEDIA will be able to take place?
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post #42 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
I just saw there there is now a change of plans and that IFA will take place Sept 3-5 and will only be open to the trade this year with limited admissions each day.
They had originally planed a virtual show. Wondering if CEDIA will be able to take place?
Week and a half ago, CEDIA announced that they plan to have the show?
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post #43 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 01:22 PM
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I just saw there there is now a change of plans and that IFA will take place Sept 3-5 and will only be open to the trade this year with limited admissions each day.
They had originally planed a virtual show. Wondering if CEDIA will be able to take place?
It will be great if things are back to that level of normality by then, but beware, these things happening are all down to us all doing the right thing in the mean time.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #44 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 01:24 PM
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Since I don't really think there will be much if anything new this year, I pretty certain I'm not going to Cedia this year. Not worth risking getting sick to see what I can see online.
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post #45 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Week and a half ago, CEDIA announced that they plan to have the show?
Mike,

Any general thoughts on whether JVC and/or Sony will bring HDMI 2.1 this year? I want to upgrade but not doing it until HDMI 2.1 is fully implemented as I am a gamer and want to be able to take advantage of 120Hz content. Also hoping for decreased lag.
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post #46 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
I just saw there there is now a change of plans and that IFA will take place Sept 3-5 and will only be open to the trade this year with limited admissions each day.
They had originally planed a virtual show. Wondering if CEDIA will be able to take place?
Were you planning on attending?


I wouldn't worry abut Cedia until either they cancel it or the middle of summer. I don't make my plans till a couple of weeks before the show at best.

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
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post #47 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Mike,

Any general thoughts on whether JVC and/or Sony will bring HDMI 2.1 this year? I want to upgrade but not doing it until HDMI 2.1 is fully implemented as I am a gamer and want to be able to take advantage of 120Hz content. Also hoping for decreased lag.
I think the answer is no. Going to be a while for that.
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post #48 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 06:13 PM
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I know this isn't projector related news, but Rocky Mountain Audio Fest 2020 was officially cancelled today.

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post #49 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
Mike,

Any general thoughts on whether JVC and/or Sony will bring HDMI 2.1 this year? I want to upgrade but not doing it until HDMI 2.1 is fully implemented as I am a gamer and want to be able to take advantage of 120Hz content. Also hoping for decreased lag.
This year? I would not be holding my breath. Heck the mainstream AVR manufacturers are not even going to do it this year and they are always ahead of the projector manufacturers.
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post #50 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 08:56 PM
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This year? I would not be holding my breath. Heck the mainstream AVR manufacturers are not even going to do it this year and they are always ahead of the projector manufacturers.

Of note is that AVR manufacturers have been preparing for support of HDMI 2.1 in hardware that is already in customer’s racks right now. They’ve been talking about it since at least CES 2018. I know you’re probably right that we will continue to see a lot of feet dragging on all fronts, at some point it gets quite frustrating.

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post #51 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 09:38 PM
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Of note is that AVR manufacturers have been preparing for support of HDMI 2.1 in hardware that is already in customer’s racks right now. They’ve been talking about it since at least CES 2018. I know you’re probably right that we will continue to see a lot of feet dragging on all fronts, at some point it gets quite frustrating.
Denon and Marantz have already said the HDMI 2.1 update for the AV8805 and 8500 has been moved to next year.
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post #52 of 53 Old 05-19-2020, 09:56 PM
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Of note is that AVR manufacturers have been preparing for support of HDMI 2.1 in hardware that is already in customer’s racks right now. They’ve been talking about it since at least CES 2018. I know you’re probably right that we will continue to see a lot of feet dragging on all fronts, at some point it gets quite frustrating.

I guess my point is that AVR manufacturers have been providing an upgrade path for over two years, unblocking people waiting to buy. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy an AV8805 nearly as much as a projector right now.

I guess we have a lot of waiting in our future!
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post #53 of 53 Old 05-22-2020, 06:05 PM
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AVRs should have had HDMI 2.1 by now, I don't know what's the hold up. As far as JVC projectors, the NX5, NX7, NX9 are almost two years old now. I'm hoping there will be a new line of projectors announced at CEDIA this September. JVC has a two year cycle, so hopefully that's the case. I want more native contrast...
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We don't know yet what if anything will be released. We do know that if JVC does offer an update it will probably be a small change. It is possible that Sony could include DTM on new models and that Epson could offer a true 4k projector. With the cancellation of IFA and probably CEDIA there are more questions than answers.

One can always wait but you will be missing out on the enjoyment. I would suggest that if you want a projector that is probably more future proof you look at the JVC NX5/NX7 since that both have DTM now. HDMI 2.1 will come someday but will mostly be important if you are a gamer.

I have the 5040UBE, and while I love it, I have drastically upgraded my library to 4K (mostly collections, i.e. Star Wars, Transformers, Mission Impossible, Jurassic Park, Batman, X-Men, and the list goes on) that I have not even opened yet. I want to see them in their full glory. Was/is really hoping Epson goes 4K native to thus have a 8K E-shift. If they've done such an amazing job on the 5040/5050 with 4K E-shift, Can't imagine what they'd do with a 8K E-Shift and would probably be a forever projector (well at least a good 7-10 year run). Just don' t think they have the lic rights or something. So if they don't go that route, then since NX7 is at the 2 year mark when the new one comes out, it will drop the price dramatically for one, and the new gen of the NX7 will surely have some new features (kind of what happened with 5040 going to 5050 in regards to the HDR, 5040 has a bandwidth limit of 10gb where as the 5050 doesn't and can get full HDR (plus an extra 100 lumes) so I am sure the next gen NX7 will have something else up their sleeves. I really want the NX9, but 1) the crazy double price tag is a bit too obnoxious and it is NOT future proof since it can't take 8K, when that becomes the norm probably sometime in the mid 20's.

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