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post #61 of 153 Old 05-31-2020, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I don't think you can assume that because you notice a difference with 8K eshift toggled on / off that means you can see 8K resolution. We played with 8K eshift quite a lot and honestly it looks like a minor sharpen filter. It was very similar to what reality creation did on sony 4K content. 8K eshift isn't 4K and JVC's upscaler never makes the content look more like the upscaled resolution anyway. For example, 1080p played on the NX9 doesn't look more like 4K with JVC's internal upscaler (it does if you run it through madVR).
You may very well be right. It's true that the 8K eshift feels visually like an sharpen filter. We'll know for sure when we have true 8K projectors and good material to play with. In the (long?) meantime, let's enjoy what we are very lucky to have already!
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post #62 of 153 Old 05-31-2020, 09:53 AM
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I've been following this thread with the hope that someone from the DLP world would comment on any new PJs in the works. For those of us not on "dark side" (HT humor), any updates or thoughts would be appreciated.
I've been waiting for years for a 4K DLP with features similar to the JVCs and Sonys (ie powered lens controls/lens memory). We watch mostly bright movies and sports. Ultimate contrast stats are just not that important (AVS sacrilege).
DLP makers have been stuck in the "dark ages" (or not so dark ages) since circa 2012.
If Benq or Optoma would step up to the plate, they could hit a home run, especially at this time when the world could use a little brightness
My $.02
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post #63 of 153 Old 05-31-2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Honey1 View Post
About the NX9: I was fortunate enough to get it at an extremely low price in July 2019. Actually, the price was so low (relatively speaking) that buying it was sort of a no-brainer. I can tell you it's perhaps the single best AV material I've ever had. I know it cannot receive signals in 8K but consider the following. First, 8K discs will probably never exist. Second, 4K streaming is today of a much lower quality than 4K discs, so 8K streaming might very well not look better than 4K discs for quite some time. And, finally, most movies today are finished in 2K, so 4K presentations are already upscaling the original material, and I am afraid extensive 8K scanning of older movies shot on film is still a very long way down the road.

It seems to me gamers might be the first to really enjoy a 8K upgrade. But is that even sure?
I would buy the NX9 if I were you, provided you find it at a `reasonable' price.


Thanks for the reply. However at these prices, It would be a 6-10 year use. No way I could buy another projector, especially at the 6K (or 15K'sh in the case of the NX9) for just a few years. Unlike receivers that come out every year with minor new features/upgrades and then a HUGE changes every 4 years'ish, seems projectors take about 2-3 years and have some impressive new features. Case in point on the 5040 with HDR limitations then the 6050 with the new 18gb bandwidth. So I'm going to wait till the end of the year and see what each party has or will have coming out. Worst case scenario if the new PJ don't have any night and day differences, then at least the current models will drop dramatically in price. So kind of a win-win. But I feel when 8K becomes the norm, there'll be a handful of 8K-shift out there, just like there is with 4K E-shift. And if Blu ray looks absolutely amazing now on the 5040 bumped up to faux 4K, then I can't even image how a 4K would look on a 8K E-shift. I feel at that point, once we go higher, it's borderline pointless....Unless if some new unknown technology comes out that makes our current HDR/Dolby Vision oldschool.

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post #64 of 153 Old 05-31-2020, 01:40 PM
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Thanks for the reply. However at these prices, It would be a 6-10 year use. No way I could buy another projector, especially at the 6K (or 15K'sh in the case of the NX9) for just a few years. Unlike receivers that come out every year with minor new features/upgrades and then a HUGE changes every 4 years'ish, seems projectors take about 2-3 years and have some impressive new features. Case in point on the 5040 with HDR limitations then the 6050 with the new 18gb bandwidth. So I'm going to wait till the end of the year and see what each party has or will have coming out. Worst case scenario if the new PJ don't have any night and day differences, then at least the current models will drop dramatically in price. So kind of a win-win. But I feel when 8K becomes the norm, there'll be a handful of 8K-shift out there, just like there is with 4K E-shift. And if Blu ray looks absolutely amazing now on the 5040 bumped up to faux 4K, then I can't even image how a 4K would look on a 8K E-shift. I feel at that point, once we go higher, it's borderline pointless....Unless if some new unknown technology comes out that makes our current HDR/Dolby Vision oldschool.
I understand your reasoning and it makes sense. I will nevertheless add a few remarks, just to fuel the debate!
First, consider the pandemic. It has already made many pieces of high-end electronics out of stock, at least in several European countries. It is far from certain that any new JVC or Sony PJs will be announced in 2020, especially because of the looming economical crisis. And imagine what a second wave in Autumn could do. Second: many professionals think that 8K is only a selling tool, that it will never become mainstream and will develop even less than 3D. Finally, before buying my own NX9 a year ago, I spoke to someone `in the know' and asked that person what the predictions were for the future. The answer was that the next NX5 would get something from the current NX7, the next NX7 would get something from the current NX9, typically the video treatment (which is apparently different from the treatment in the NX5 and NX7), but the next NX7 would not get the lens pf the current NX9. And the next NX9 would be either slightly better than te current one or built with laser. The prices of the next NX5 and NX7 would be more or less identical to the prices of their current counterparts, and the price of the next NX9 would be at least identical, possibly substantially higher if they build it with a laser. I wanted a PJ with a great lens and a bulb, I got an incredibly great opportunity on the NX9, and I pulled the trigger. And, of course, I have been very happy with my purchase ever since. But again, I can understand your reasons for waiting. I guess it also depends on the price at which you can get the NX9.
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post #65 of 153 Old 05-31-2020, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Honey1 View Post
I understand your reasoning and it makes sense. I will nevertheless add a few remarks, just to fuel the debate!
First, consider the pandemic. It has already made many pieces of high-end electronics out of stock, at least in several European countries. It is far from certain that any new JVC or Sony PJs will be announced in 2020, especially because of the looming economical crisis. And imagine what a second wave in Autumn could do. Second: many professionals think that 8K is only a selling tool, that it will never become mainstream and will develop even less than 3D. Finally, before buying my own NX9 a year ago, I spoke to someone `in the know' and asked that person what the predictions were for the future. The answer was that the next NX5 would get something from the current NX7, the next NX7 would get something from the current NX9, typically the video treatment (which is apparently different from the treatment in the NX5 and NX7), but the next NX7 would not get the lens pf the current NX9. And the next NX9 would be either slightly better than te current one or built with laser. The prices of the next NX5 and NX7 would be more or less identical to the prices of their current counterparts, and the price of the next NX9 would be at least identical, possibly substantially higher if they build it with a laser. I wanted a PJ with a great lens and a bulb, I got an incredibly great opportunity on the NX9, and I pulled the trigger. And, of course, I have been very happy with my purchase ever since. But again, I can understand your reasons for waiting. I guess it also depends on the price at which you can get the NX9.


Thank again for your input, I truly appreciate it.
It did occur to me regarding the pandemic setting us back 6 months to a year. I have learned patience is a virtue (I've had my own theater set up since 1995'sh (of course back then, it was VERY basic, 20" Sony Trinitron TV with 5.1 Dolby Prologic II) and now at 150" 9.3.4 Dolby Atmos with separates, in a fully dedicated acoustically treated painted (ceiling too) theater room. I have been upgrading my entire library, 3D first and foremost, but what ever else to 4K, mostly 4K collections, Fast and Furious, Jurassic Park, Star Wars, Batman, tons of Disney, X-men, Mission Impossible, Transformers, etc, etc. And haven't opened %95 of them yet to wait to see them in all their glory on a Native 4K.
So willing to wait, since the returns will be well worth it, already have some great prices on the NX7 from an authorized retailer, although the NX 9 is on the list.
By the way, would you or anyone else know how much better/different 3D is on the JVX NX serious compared to the Epson 5040?

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post #66 of 153 Old 05-31-2020, 06:03 PM
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Hi all, prob already been discussed. But what's everyone's thoughts on the current epson TW9400 likely to get a upgrade In 2021. Is it wise to get another 1080p when i alteady have a older great 1080p?

Currently Have a 6yr old Panasonic ae8000u, with 3300hrs on it (orig globe), still has a amazing picture, 25% of discs look amazing, 50% great, 25% average, thou at times appears slightly out of focus ( im however getting glasses, could just be me :-) )

I'm also starting to get delays when turning equip on with my hdmi handshake, new fibbr 4k optical hdmi cable from a Panasonic ub9000 to a marantz av8805? Never had such bad delays since getting the fibbr hdmi cable. Sometimes i give up and just turn it all off again and reboot all to get it going.

Would a new globe and calibration be better money spent, or just get the Epson?



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post #67 of 153 Old 06-01-2020, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by gianni1 View Post
Hi all, prob already been discussed. But what's everyone's thoughts on the current epson TW9400 likely to get a upgrade In 2021. Is it wise to get another 1080p when i alteady have a older great 1080p?

Currently Have a 6yr old Panasonic ae8000u, with 3300hrs on it (orig globe), still has a amazing picture, 25% of discs look amazing, 50% great, 25% average, thou at times appears slightly out of focus ( im however getting glasses, could just be me :-) )

I'm also starting to get delays when turning equip on with my hdmi handshake, new fibbr 4k optical hdmi cable from a Panasonic ub9000 to a marantz av8805? Never had such bad delays since getting the fibbr hdmi cable. Sometimes i give up and just turn it all off again and reboot all to get it going.

Would a new globe and calibration be better money spent, or just get the Epson?



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I can only recount my personal experience. Three years ago, I wanted to make the jump to 4K, so I bought a great 1080p JVC with 4k-eshift. I grew very rapidly dissatisfied with it for 4K, so much so that I stopped watching 4K on it. And I bought a true 4K PJ two years later.
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post #68 of 153 Old 06-01-2020, 03:09 AM
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Yeah i hear ya. Thou I've read so many saying that the 4k shifters are hard to pick from normal distances, commonly said that its only when your seated too close near the screen that itty pixels can be seen? Is this false?

What was the biggest difference you noticed with the jvc pixel shifter vs the true 4k?

There's simply no 4k projectors in a reasonable price range that has a lens memory function which is on my want list as i have a scope screen.

What 4k unit did you go for?

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post #69 of 153 Old 06-01-2020, 04:02 AM
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Yeah i hear ya. Thou I've read so many saying that the 4k shifters are hard to pick from normal distances, commonly said that its only when your seated too close near the screen that itty pixels can be seen? Is this false?

What was the biggest difference you noticed with the jvc pixel shifter vs the true 4k?

There's simply no 4k projectors in a reasonable price range that has a lens memory function which is on my want list as i have a scope screen.

What 4k unit did you go for?

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It is true that you must seat close enough to the screen to appreciate the difference in resolution. But keep in mind that 4K UHD is not only about resolution, it's about color space (very important) and HDR. I don't know the models you are talking about, but what is their color space? And how do they handle HDR?

Based on trying out several Sony and JVC projectors, my feeling is that, as far as resolution is concerned, you get a much more precise, but also cleaner, more stable, artefact free and more natural image when you are using a true 4K instead of a 4K eshift.

I was very lucky to have the money to accept an offer you can't refuse on the JVC NX9, so I bought it and, needless to say, I am extremely happy about it. But the pluses of a true 4K projector also apply to the NX7, and even the NX5. My chief problem with the NX5 I played with was the light output, which was simply not sufficient to my taste. But it all depends on the screen size, the room, your habits, etc. And I have heard some NX5 have
a light output comparable to some NX9!

If I may stress one point again: to many of us, color space and good HDR is at least as important as resolution.
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post #70 of 153 Old 06-01-2020, 05:07 AM
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It is true that you must seat close enough to the screen to appreciate the difference in resolution. But keep in mind that 4K UHD is not only about resolution, it's about color space (very important) and HDR. I don't know the models you are talking about, but what is their color space? And how do they handle HDR?

Based on trying out several Sony and JVC projectors, my feeling is that, as far as resolution is concerned, you get a much more precise, but also cleaner, more stable, artefact free and more natural image when you are using a true 4K instead of a 4K eshift.

I was very lucky to have the money to accept an offer you can't refuse on the JVC NX9, so I bought it and, needless to say, I am extremely happy about it. But the pluses of a true 4K projector also apply to the NX7, and even the NX5. My chief problem with the NX5 I played with was the light output, which was simply not sufficient to my taste. But it all depends on the screen size, the room, your habits, etc. And I have heard some NX5 have
a light output comparable to some NX9!

If I may stress one point again: to many of us, color space and good HDR is at least as important as resolution.
I just wish to correct something mis-leading in my previous post. If I am not mistaken, the JVC N5 does not offer the color gamut Rec2020/DCI-P3, but only Rec709. However, the N7 and NX9 do.
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post #71 of 153 Old 06-01-2020, 09:06 AM
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I just wish to correct something mis-leading in my previous post. If I am not mistaken, the JVC N5 does not offer the color gamut Rec2020/DCI-P3, but only Rec709. However, the N7 and NX9 do.
That is not accurate. The NX5 has been measured to provide >89% P3 even though it lacks the color filter of the NX7 and NX9 and which both get close full P3. It makes the NX5 a particular bargain for those that need more light because it truly does almost everything the NX7 does with a bit less real-world contrast and really no other downsides.
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post #72 of 153 Old 06-01-2020, 09:41 AM
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That is not accurate. The NX5 has been measured to provide >89% P3 even though it lacks the color filter of the NX7 and NX9 and which both get close full P3. It makes the NX5 a particular bargain for those that need more light because it truly does almost everything the NX7 does with a bit less real-world contrast and really no other downsides.
Thanks for the precise information. I turns out I was at least 89% mistaken !
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post #73 of 153 Old 06-01-2020, 04:53 PM
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So what's the best value true 4k projector? Im not after the ultimate in color , just all all round good unit, ever second hand i guess.

Lens memory is a particular want as i have a scope screen. And yes i know you loose some resolution and brightness. I can live with that. :-)

P.s.
In regards to pixel shifters, Ive only heard greatness with the TW9400 Epson pixel shifter

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post #74 of 153 Old 06-02-2020, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gianni1 View Post
So what's the best value true 4k projector? Im not after the ultimate in color , just all all round good unit, ever second hand i guess.

Lens memory is a particular want as i have a scope screen. And yes i know you loose some resolution and brightness. I can live with that. :-)

P.s.
In regards to pixel shifters, Ive only heard greatness with the TW9400 Epson pixel shifter

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In my opinion the JVC RS1000. I'm impressed whenever I see it in action ( especially for the price ), even though I have an RS4500.
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post #75 of 153 Old 06-02-2020, 03:58 PM
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New to the forum - what a great group with great content! Marantz SR8012 paired with Klipsch 625fa for front and rear L&R, 34c center, 51m for surrounds, and 2 120sw’s. I’d like to complete the system with a 4K native PJ and am down to the Sony 295 or the JVC nx5. Any experiences leaning either way? I’ve heard nothing but good about both and lots of love for the NX5. Use is streamed movies 30%, Xbox 50%, cable tv 20%.

Thanks for the precise information. I turns out I was at least 89% mistaken ![/QUOTE]
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post #76 of 153 Old 06-02-2020, 04:27 PM
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New to the forum - what a great group with great content! Marantz SR8012 paired with Klipsch 625fa for front and rear L&R, 34c center, 51m for surrounds, and 2 120sw’s. I’d like to complete the system with a 4K native PJ and am down to the Sony 295 or the JVC nx5. Any experiences leaning either way? I’ve heard nothing but good about both and lots of love for the NX5. Use is streamed movies 30%, Xbox 50%, cable tv 20%.
Oh and any dealers with great pricing on the Nx5/RS1000 please reach out - looking to make my purchase ASAP. Emai l is goto TEN(use the #) @gmail
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post #77 of 153 Old 06-03-2020, 01:33 AM
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In my opinion the JVC RS1000. I'm impressed whenever I see it in action ( especially for the price ), even though I have an RS4500.
Everybody says the NX5/RS1000 is indeed the best value for money.
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post #78 of 153 Old 06-03-2020, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
New to the forum - what a great group with great content! Marantz SR8012 paired with Klipsch 625fa for front and rear L&R, 34c center, 51m for surrounds, and 2 120sw’s. I’d like to complete the system with a 4K native PJ and am down to the Sony 295 or the JVC nx5. Any experiences leaning either way? I’ve heard nothing but good about both and lots of love for the NX5. Use is streamed movies 30%, Xbox 50%, cable tv 20%.

Thanks for the precise information. I turns out I was at least 89% mistaken !
[/QUOTE]

The JVC RS1000 held it's own compared to the Sony VW695es, and had better contrast and HDR -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...ter-event.html
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post #79 of 153 Old 06-03-2020, 08:24 AM
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I personally wish projectors had at least 4 HDMI inputs with earc support so people weren't forced to use their AVR's as video switchers.
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post #80 of 153 Old 06-03-2020, 08:33 AM
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I do not know if CEDIA will actually happen, but at some point, we are going to have to move forward. If a vaccine can be developed, it would make it a much better solution. If no vaccine, then we are going to have to develop herd immunity. That does not sound fun. If CEDIA does happen, I have not decided if I will attend.
Mike,

My opinion is since it would be people from many Countries .............

Stay-Home !!!

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post #81 of 153 Old 06-03-2020, 08:34 AM
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Since I don't really think there will be much if anything new this year, I pretty certain I'm not going to Cedia this year. Not worth risking getting sick to see what I can see online.
Craig,

Smart Decision buddy ...

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Craig,

Smart Decision buddy ...

Terry
Guess you did not see that CEDIA is cancelled this year.
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Guess you did not see that CEDIA is cancelled this year.
Since Cedia is going to be virtual this year, only my computer risks catching a virus !
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post #84 of 153 Old 06-04-2020, 11:34 AM
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New Projectors 2020

Denon announced new X series AVRs with HDMI 2.1!

That bodes well that companies aren’t going to sit on their laurels and not release anything they worked on or let their product pipeline stagnate just because conventions are being cancelled.

Lakeview Cinema build thread

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Originally Posted by sor View Post
Denon announced new X series AVRs with HDMI 2.1!

That bodes well that companies aren’t going to sit on their laurels and not release anything they worked on or let their product pipeline stagnate just because conventions are being cancelled.
It is possible that we might see a few HDMI 2.1 projectors. I am wondering if for most it will be a real difference at this point. I think it will be important in a few years but at this point unless you are a gamer will there be a big difference. It is a selling point and will be future proof for a while.
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post #86 of 153 Old 06-04-2020, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
It is possible that we might see a few HDMI 2.1 projectors. I am wondering if for most it will be a real difference at this point. I think it will be important in a few years but at this point unless you are a gamer will there be a big difference. It is a selling point and will be future proof for a while.

You’re probably right. I don’t think 8k or some of the latency improvements are spectacular or to be utilized soon, but there are other features in 2.1 that will be nice, like quick media switching and eARC for surround sound support.

I’m not so much celebrating the availability of HDMI 2.1 as I am the signal that companies aren’t necessarily going to stand still during this period. I think there has been a lot of sentiment that companies were going to hold back work they’ve been doing or may have released, due to coronavirus or cancellation of conventions. This never made sense to me, because most companies don’t have the luxury of standing still, unless coronavirus itself impacted manpower or production. I think it’s just a positive sign.

Lakeview Cinema build thread
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post #87 of 153 Old 06-05-2020, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
It is possible that we might see a few HDMI 2.1 projectors. I am wondering if for most it will be a real difference at this point. I think it will be important in a few years but at this point unless you are a gamer will there be a big difference. It is a selling point and will be future proof for a while.
Yes possible. But excluding maybe a company like wolfe modifying a projector to be HDMI 2.1, I give mainstream manufacturers a 0.1% chance of providing HDMI 2.1 this year. Note also the Denon AVR's and the LG TV are 40Gbps, not full 48Gbps spec.
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post #88 of 153 Old 06-07-2020, 05:03 AM
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One can safely assume that they started working on the next gen PJs the moment they released current gen. Product development takes long time. Now the development could have been halted or slowed down due to COVID-19 but JVC needs to compete with other manufacturers too. If Sony comes out with the new lineup that has HDMI 2.1 that offers relative future proofing it will steal lot of potential customers. In that scenario JVC will have to drop prices further to compete. So I wont just assume that nothing new will be released this year. I may be wrong and we will know for sure by the end of the year. Again, this is just me thinking out loud with no access to insider info.

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post #89 of 153 Old 06-07-2020, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by nonstopdoc1 View Post
One can safely assume that they started working on the next gen PJs the moment they released current gen. Product development takes long time. Now the development could have been halted or slowed down due to COVID-19 but JVC needs to compete with other manufacturers too. If Sony comes out with the new lineup that has HDMI 2.1 that offers relative future proofing it will steal lot of potential customers. In that scenario JVC will have to drop prices further to compete. So I wont just assume that nothing new will be released this year. I may be wrong and we will know for sure by the end of the year. Again, this is just me thinking out loud with no access to insider info.
There have been rumors that Sony has been working on DTM to compete with JVC current models. Sony has not updated in two years so we could see new models in the fall. JVC might offer some small changes with some improvement in DTM and some other small changes. It will be interesting if we see 2.1 but that might have to wait for another year. I would bet that Sony might be first because they also make the Play Station 5 which will come out this year and they may want to have their TV's and projectors ready to use it.
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post #90 of 153 Old 06-07-2020, 12:43 PM
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I would be shocked to see HDMI 2.1 on a projector this fall. When have projectors ever been at the forefront of a new HDMI spec. Projectors usually lag behind AVR's and TV's.
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