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post #121 of 153 Old 06-24-2020, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by fatallerror View Post
Even if the contrast is dropping to 3000:1 or so it would be better than DLP contrast so it would make sense to release it.
And why wouldn’t be any major releases? Life’s still going on, they were working on the new models in person till March since 2017 so why would they stop development completely? Manufacturing is going and logistics too even if not at the usual pace. They even released a major firmware in early June with tone mapping improvement as you know since you have this projector I totally expect the TW9500 to be a native 4K this fall, there were projectors released during the pandemic already if I remember right. This is business and these companies can’t just sit tight until this pandemic will be gone. But we’ll see
I doubt you will see a TW9500 this Autumn but maybe the same time 2021 because that's Epson's usual production cycle. If they were to release a Native projector this year I would expect it to be a replacement for the LS10500.

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post #122 of 153 Old 06-24-2020, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I doubt you will see a TW9500 this Autumn but maybe the same time 2021 because that's Epson's usual production cycle. If they were to release a Native projector this year I would expect it to be a replacement for the LS10500.
3 years is the usual? Only 2 years difference between the 9300 and 9400. Anyway, the 9400 is still more than decent specially with the refined tone mapping in the recent update
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Epson have not done anything really ground breaking in the HT market for a while. So they could finally release the native 4K devices they have probably been sitting on for years, to maximise profits on the old models.

HDMI 2.1 is not that important for PJs at the moment I think. TVs are always light years ahead in terms of features over PJs.
Well if manufacturers think that it’s not important for movies then JVC will not hurry to release anything before they can offer a better light source...

But now I’m really annoying to you guys so I’m out of this thread
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post #123 of 153 Old 06-28-2020, 09:29 AM
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My sweet spot would be an NX-7 updated with a Laser light source.
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post #124 of 153 Old 06-28-2020, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dweltman View Post
My sweet spot would be an NX-7 updated with a Laser light source.
Yours and a million others.
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post #125 of 153 Old 06-28-2020, 10:02 AM
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Yours and a million others.

So you’re saying there’s a market. Call JVC!

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post #126 of 153 Old 06-28-2020, 11:43 AM
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So you’re saying there’s a market. Call JVC!
I am sure we will see a laser light source in the future. The question is how distant the future will be. I think that one of the biggest issues is bringing down the cost of a laser light source.
I doubt if that will be possible this year. I would not be surprised to see it first in units 15k or above.
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post #127 of 153 Old 06-28-2020, 11:56 AM
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I am sure we will see a laser light source in the future. The question is how distant the future will be. I think that one of the biggest issues is bringing down the cost of a laser light source.
I doubt if that will be possible this year. I would not be surprised to see it first in units 15k or above.

Well, JVC does have a 3000 lumen laser in the $3500 LX-NZ3. Of course the NX series is already in the $10k+ range, you get a lot of other things for that money, but the NZ3 may show us that laser isn’t necessarily cost prohibitive.

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post #128 of 153 Old 06-28-2020, 12:13 PM
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Here in Norway the sales of HT projectors are almost non-existent. The showrooms in high-end audio/video stores are gone.

It is only the die-hards remaining that keep projectors. The rest is satisfied with large flat-screens.

Yes I know a flat-screen cant replace what we die-hard fans want, but it can satisfy the vast marjority. So the ht projector makers are constantly losing potential customers. And at the moment the market is very little.

To make it even worse is, that now that every die-hard jvc fan that waited for years for a real 4k projectors, they have bought it now. So the demand from the die-hard fans are very little also. It is a very little incentive for those who already have bought a JVC 4k to replace it. (Because the JVC 4k are really good if not the best, and what can they upgrade the units with, that will make the owners use a lot of dollars to replace them.)

It wouldnt suprise me if we have seen the last completly new chassis from JVC.

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post #129 of 153 Old 06-28-2020, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sor View Post
So you’re saying there’s a market. Call JVC!
I'm sure they are quite aware, but just like the transition time from eshift to the current 4K line, feasibility, scale, and economics at play with laser. But I fully expect within the next several years the lamp models will be replaced at fairly reasonable MSRPs.
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post #130 of 153 Old 06-28-2020, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Per Johnny View Post
Here in Norway the sales of HT projectors are almost non-existent. The showrooms in high-end audio/video stores are gone.

It is only the die-hards remaining that keep projectors. The rest is satisfied with large flat-screens.

Yes I know a flat-screen cant replace what we die-hard fans want, but it can satisfy the vast marjority. So the ht projector makers are constantly losing potential customers. And at the moment the market is very little.

To make it even worse is, that now that every die-hard jvc fan that waited for years for a real 4k projectors, they have bought it now. So the demand from the die-hard fans are very little also. It is a very little incentive for those who already have bought a JVC 4k to replace it. (Because the JVC 4k are really good if not the best, and what can they upgrade the units with, that will make the owners use a lot of dollars to replace them.)

It wouldnt suprise me if we have seen the last completly new chassis from JVC.
The last chassis lasted for eight years.
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post #131 of 153 Old 06-29-2020, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Yours and a million others.
OK, I could even stretch to an NX-9 if they add laser and have them ready to ship this fall
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post #132 of 153 Old 06-29-2020, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by dweltman View Post
OK, I could even stretch to an NX-9 if they add laser and have them ready to ship this fall
I gave that 0.000001% chance of happening.
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post #133 of 153 Old 06-29-2020, 07:40 AM
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Would love to see JVC push input lag numbers down a little further while they are at it...I know lots of people game on their NX series projectors but for me it is still a distracting amount of delay. If they could achieve something like what my old Sony HW40ES had (or even lower) in the NX7 that would be great as I would love to be able to do some gaming on the big screen.
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post #134 of 153 Old 06-29-2020, 07:30 PM
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So I'm reading the tea leaves here but the prospect of any exciting new models in 2020 seems fairly slim. I have an ancient AE3000U Panasonic and am wondering if it's time to pull the trigger and just be happy with FauxK or even NX5/295ES 4k for a few years until technology/standards catch up on the HDMI 2.1 VRR & 4K/120 front.

I've been looking around tonight and have seen the following 6 models come up. Bear in mind, I have a light-controlled room and a 135" screen that fills the space so I'm set on that size. My mount is about 13.5' lens-distance from the screen but could be adjusted slightly. I prefer darker blacks and better contrast over brightness, but with HDR content maybe I'd change my tune. I'm intrigued by the Laser light options since I'm used to the $150 cost of OEM bulbs for my Panny every ~2 years, but it seems as though there may be some downsides to laser that I'm not fully grasping. I definitely expect acceptable input lag for gaming. My AE3000u has seemed fine for gaming, so equivalent or better, though those specs are hard to come by I'm finding.

This is what I've seen that may be worth consideration after some research. I'm willing to spend up to $6k but not above, but if a $2000 option gives me 90% of the benefits I'll listen.

Epson 6050UB
JVC NX5
JVC LX-NZ3B
Sony VVPL-VW295ES
Optoma UHZ65LV
BenQ HT9050

Is there any reason I should immediately eliminate any of these? Is there anything else out or upcoming that I should consider?

Thanks!
-Pete

Edit - Let me add that maybe 50% of my viewing is streaming media/sports, 25% is Blu-ray/4k Blu Ray, and 25% is Gaming, either console or PC, which I intend to use more later this year with a GPU upgrade to push 4k/60 out to the projector.

Last edited by zorkwiz; 06-29-2020 at 08:09 PM.
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post #135 of 153 Old 06-29-2020, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by zorkwiz View Post
So I'm reading the tea leaves here but the prospect of any exciting new models in 2020 seems fairly slim. I have an ancient AE3000U Panasonic and am wondering if it's time to pull the trigger and just be happy with FauxK or even NX5/295ES 4k for a few years until technology/standards catch up on the HDMI 2.1 VRR & 4K/120 front.

I've been looking around tonight and have seen the following 6 models come up. Bear in mind I have a light-controlled room and a 135" screen that fills the space so I'm set on that size. My mount is about 13.5' lens-distance from the screen but could be adjusted slightly. I prefer darker blacks and better contrast over brightness, but with HDR content maybe I'd change my tune. I definitely want acceptable input lag for gaming. My AE3000u has seemed fine for gaming, so equivalent or better, though those specs are hard to come by I'm finding.

This is what I've seen that may be worth consideration after some research. I'm willing to spend up to $6k but not above, but if a $2000 option gives me 90% of the benefits I'll listen.

Epson 6050UB
JVC NX5
JVC LX-NZ3B
Sony VVPL-VW295ES
Optoma UHZ65LV
BenQ HT9050

Is there any reason I should immediately eliminate any of these? Is there anything else out or upcoming that I should consider?

Thanks!
-Pete

Edit - Let me add that maybe 50% of my viewing is streaming media, 25% is Blu-ray/4k Blu Ray, and 25% is Gaming, either console or PC, which I intend to use more later this year with a GPU upgrade to push 4k out to the projector.
In a light controlled dedicated room, I would not go with a low contrast projector. I would eliminate the 9050, NZ3 and UHZ65, right off the bat. With 75% of your viewing streaming and Blu Ray, I would go with the projector with the best HDR tone mapping, but it is also the most expensive of the bunch. You will need a few more inches for throw.
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post #136 of 153 Old 06-29-2020, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
In a light controlled dedicated room, I would not go with a low contrast projector. I would eliminate the 9050, NZ3 and UHZ65, right off the bat. With 75% of your viewing streaming and Blu Ray, I would go with the projector with the best HDR tone mapping, but it is also the most expensive of the bunch. You will need a few more inches for throw.
Thanks Mike. Could you elaborate on that a bit? It seems that all of the "low contrast" projectors you called out are the laser models. Is that just a feature/drawback of that light source? And which do you consider the "Best for HDR tone mapping?" NX-5 with newer firmware? Something else? What throw distance would I need to fill 135" with your recommendation?
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post #137 of 153 Old 06-29-2020, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by zorkwiz View Post
Thanks Mike. Could you elaborate on that a bit? It seems that all of the "low contrast" projectors you called out are the laser models. Is that just a feature/drawback of that light source? And which do you consider the "Best for HDR tone mapping?" NX-5 with newer firmware? Something else? What throw distance would I need to fill 135" with your recommendation?
Those are all DLP and any modern DLP has low contrast. The 4k jvcs are the only projectors with dynamic tone mapping so far. Static tone mapping can look ok but its a big difference vs dynamic. The other option is using an htpc and madvr to do the dynamic tone mapping. That will open you up to a few other projectors, older jvcs, sonys, and older high dlp.
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post #138 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 12:11 AM
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@zorkwiz there’s no doubt the NX5 is the best of the bunch on your list but you would be surprised by just how good the image looks on the 6050. I’m using the UK equivalent model and combined with the Panasonic UB420 I set it to SDR 2020 and you’d be amazed by the images it throw with 4K HDR.



Here’s the same image on dropbox which is far better quality.

BTW I am using a white screen and room is fully treated with black velour on walls and ceiling with 6 foot deep big black rug in front of the screen.
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post #139 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Those are all DLP and any modern DLP has low contrast. The 4k jvcs are the only projectors with dynamic tone mapping so far. Static tone mapping can look ok but its a big difference vs dynamic. The other option is using an htpc and madvr to do the dynamic tone mapping. That will open you up to a few other projectors, older jvcs, sonys, and older high dlp.
Except he said 50% of his viewing will be streaming. That eliminates MadVR on an HTPC for half of his content. Also he would have the added cost of building and maintaining an HTPC.

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 06-30-2020 at 06:16 AM.
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post #140 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by zorkwiz View Post
Thanks Mike. Could you elaborate on that a bit? It seems that all of the "low contrast" projectors you called out are the laser models. Is that just a feature/drawback of that light source? And which do you consider the "Best for HDR tone mapping?" NX-5 with newer firmware? Something else? What throw distance would I need to fill 135" with your recommendation?
All the new DLP's are shifting pixel devices. While that is fine for sharpness, the design has two pretty big limitations. The biggest is contrast and the second is high gaming lag. I would only be looking at the JVC, Epson and Sony, in that order.
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post #141 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by zorkwiz View Post
So I'm reading the tea leaves here but the prospect of any exciting new models in 2020 seems fairly slim. I have an ancient AE3000U Panasonic and am wondering if it's time to pull the trigger and just be happy with FauxK or even NX5/295ES 4k for a few years until technology/standards catch up on the HDMI 2.1 VRR & 4K/120 front.

I've been looking around tonight and have seen the following 6 models come up. Bear in mind, I have a light-controlled room and a 135" screen that fills the space so I'm set on that size. My mount is about 13.5' lens-distance from the screen but could be adjusted slightly. I prefer darker blacks and better contrast over brightness, but with HDR content maybe I'd change my tune. I'm intrigued by the Laser light options since I'm used to the $150 cost of OEM bulbs for my Panny every ~2 years, but it seems as though there may be some downsides to laser that I'm not fully grasping. I definitely expect acceptable input lag for gaming. My AE3000u has seemed fine for gaming, so equivalent or better, though those specs are hard to come by I'm finding.

This is what I've seen that may be worth consideration after some research. I'm willing to spend up to $6k but not above, but if a $2000 option gives me 90% of the benefits I'll listen.

Epson 6050UB
JVC NX5
JVC LX-NZ3B
Sony VVPL-VW295ES
Optoma UHZ65LV
BenQ HT9050

Is there any reason I should immediately eliminate any of these? Is there anything else out or upcoming that I should consider?

Thanks!
-Pete

Edit - Let me add that maybe 50% of my viewing is streaming media/sports, 25% is Blu-ray/4k Blu Ray, and 25% is Gaming, either console or PC, which I intend to use more later this year with a GPU upgrade to push 4k/60 out to the projector.
In a light-controlled room, I would choose the JVC NX-5, hands down, with DTM. Next, would be the Epson 6050 paired with the Panasonic UB420 (or higher model). Sony 295 would be my third choice. These of course are my rankings based on personal viewing experiences.

Peace and blessings,

Azeke
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post #142 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 10:00 AM
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Except he said 50% of his viewing will be streaming. That eliminates MadVR on an HTPC for half of his content. Also he would have the added cost of building and maintaining an HTPC.
This implys that I shouldnt have mentioned it at all?

Hey Mike, you said you easily see sheen on the ST130, is that on the most recent revision?
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post #143 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 10:46 AM
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You will need a few more inches for throw.
I'm seeing a minimum throw of 13'5" for the NX5 to hit 135". Is there any downside to being right near the minimum throw? I would suspect that brightness would only be improved and could make eco-mode more optimal for HDR?
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post #144 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Epson have not done anything really ground breaking in the HT market for a while. So they could finally release the native 4K devices they have probably been sitting on for years, to maximise profits on the old models.

HDMI 2.1 is not that important for PJs at the moment I think. TVs are always light years ahead in terms of features over PJs.


Lets be honest when you say that.
LG OLEDs are light years ahead of TVs and Projectors in terms of features.

I'd say if you take away 'apps' from TV, which we'd never want on a projector anyway as it'd be a waste of money, time, power, space; they're still decent. I'd say PJs have better image enhancement options too. My old Epson 6050UB could sharpen an image better than any TV I've used (C9 included).

We need Epson to release something competitive at the 4K range because otherwise, JVC are just bending us over at the 4K price point and I don't see that situation resovling itself anytime soon.
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post #145 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkwiz View Post
So I'm reading the tea leaves here but the prospect of any exciting new models in 2020 seems fairly slim. I have an ancient AE3000U Panasonic and am wondering if it's time to pull the trigger and just be happy with FauxK or even NX5/295ES 4k for a few years until technology/standards catch up on the HDMI 2.1 VRR & 4K/120 front.

I've been looking around tonight and have seen the following 6 models come up. Bear in mind, I have a light-controlled room and a 135" screen that fills the space so I'm set on that size. My mount is about 13.5' lens-distance from the screen but could be adjusted slightly. I prefer darker blacks and better contrast over brightness, but with HDR content maybe I'd change my tune. I'm intrigued by the Laser light options since I'm used to the $150 cost of OEM bulbs for my Panny every ~2 years, but it seems as though there may be some downsides to laser that I'm not fully grasping. I definitely expect acceptable input lag for gaming. My AE3000u has seemed fine for gaming, so equivalent or better, though those specs are hard to come by I'm finding.

This is what I've seen that may be worth consideration after some research. I'm willing to spend up to $6k but not above, but if a $2000 option gives me 90% of the benefits I'll listen.

Epson 6050UB
JVC NX5
JVC LX-NZ3B
Sony VVPL-VW295ES
Optoma UHZ65LV
BenQ HT9050

Is there any reason I should immediately eliminate any of these? Is there anything else out or upcoming that I should consider?

Thanks!
-Pete

Edit - Let me add that maybe 50% of my viewing is streaming media/sports, 25% is Blu-ray/4k Blu Ray, and 25% is Gaming, either console or PC, which I intend to use more later this year with a GPU upgrade to push 4k/60 out to the projector.
JVC for the best.
Epson for the best value.

Its pretty much that simple.

JVC offers proper HDR dynamic tone mapping and on the fly scene analysis so no fiddling with HDR settings, and the contrast is out of this world.

The Epson (in the UK) is like one third of the price nearly.
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post #146 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 11:38 AM
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I'd say PJs have better image enhancement options too. My old Epson 6050UB could sharpen an image better than any TV I've used (C9 included).
Another benefit of madVR, access to all those sharpeners ;]
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post #147 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Per Johnny View Post
Here in Norway the sales of HT projectors are almost non-existent. The showrooms in high-end audio/video stores are gone.

It is only the die-hards remaining that keep projectors. The rest is satisfied with large flat-screens.

Yes I know a flat-screen cant replace what we die-hard fans want, but it can satisfy the vast marjority. So the ht projector makers are constantly losing potential customers. And at the moment the market is very little.

To make it even worse is, that now that every die-hard jvc fan that waited for years for a real 4k projectors, they have bought it now. So the demand from the die-hard fans are very little also. It is a very little incentive for those who already have bought a JVC 4k to replace it. (Because the JVC 4k are really good if not the best, and what can they upgrade the units with, that will make the owners use a lot of dollars to replace them.)

It wouldnt suprise me if we have seen the last completly new chassis from JVC.
Funny you say that, I have a 77 inch oled I use for most of my TV viewing, the image is absolutely stunning & watching sports is fantastic on it. but it's only 77inches. Sorry american here so I don't know the metric conversion.

Maybe we are seeing a switch from projectors to the very large TV's mainly due to cost & image quality. However the reason I'm looking at projectors currently is for my golf simulator, so there is always going to be a market, & I'm honestly surprised with all of the sports tracking games available. Also You can get a golf sim. for around $2k, didn't realize they were this cheap.

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post #148 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Another benefit of madVR, access to all those sharpeners ;]


how do you access those in MADVR?

I use it but can't find good sharpening settings which improve the image like my PJ does.

I wish MADVR would just have image presets you can select and toggle.. or can it and I'm missing a trick?

I love MADVR but its interfact leaves a lot to be desired for if you want to play with settings.
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post #149 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 12:08 PM
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This should help quell rumours that Sony is exiting the home/business sector projector market:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Son...tor-Models.htm
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post #150 of 153 Old 06-30-2020, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by aoaaron View Post
how do you access those in MADVR? I use it but can't find good sharpening settings which improve the image like my PJ does. I wish MADVR would just have image presets you can select and toggle.. or can it and I'm missing a trick? I love MADVR but its interfact leaves a lot to be desired for if you want to play with settings.
Ya, try keeping your spouse in a good mood while you're constantly monkeying with HDR settings. Dx

Processing > Image Enhancements
I like Crispen Edges and/or Enhance Detail. + Anti-ringing filter

Or if you're upscaling you'd use

Scaling Algorithm > Upscaling Refinement

If you're not upscaling, you can also use supersampling, I found it made any sharpening look a bit more natural, but it takes oodles of processing power and best to use SSIM 1D/2D 100% downscaling. Image Upscaling > activate doubling/quadrupling > doubling > always - supersampling. + if any more scaling needs to be done > downscaling > use "image downscaling".

I used to use these alot when using frame blending at 60hz due to softening of the image. But now with the Mico I just feed it 23p and don't use any sharpening, it's pixel perfect tack sharp. Though occasionally with content shot on Reds I'll turn on the luma transient improvement which I think is fairly similar to Crispen Edges, and it accentuates dimensionality in a really striking and watchable way
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