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post #151 of 195 Old 05-19-2020, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
And yet, no display can reproduce the entire range of colours visible to the human eye.....

I see what you are saying and I agree with the technicalities, but unless I know that the image on a display (even highly calibrated) is exactly like what I would see in person then it is, and will remain, just a representation of real life.

Yeah, that’s why they use fixed color gamuts like rec709 which most displays these days can fully produce.

And I’m not interested in whether it looks like real life but whether it looks like it did to the color grader on their grading display in the studio.

Movies definitely don’t have to look like real life. Color is altered in the mastering process for all sorts of artistic reasons. But if you want to try to appreciate the art, then trying to get your display to look like the artist’s display is a good start.

Of course you can also alter it to your own liking, but that’s a different goal.
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post #152 of 195 Old 05-19-2020, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Well then you can use absolute coordinates.

Lol you guys are getting all caught up in irrelevant factors.
Its relevant as far as why some calibrators use their eyes as well as their sensor.

As far as consumer home cinema goes it is the exception rather than the rule to have a top of the range sensor and a display both capable of absolute accuracy and a LUT if needed to help the display achieve absolute accuracy.

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post #153 of 195 Old 05-19-2020, 03:19 PM
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Question about Contrast ratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by dovercat View Post
Its relevant as far as why some calibrators use their eyes as well as their sensor.

As far as consumer home cinema goes it is the exception rather than the rule to have a top of the range sensor and a display both capable of absolute accuracy and a LUT if needed to help the display achieve absolute accuracy.

Yeah the problem is we are getting away from the main question I was trying to understand.

Does the HK effect matter for everyone, even someone who for example calibrates their displays carefully with thousands of pattern 3DLUTs and several thousand dollar reference meter and cares deeply if their saturation, luminance, hue, etc is as close to reference as possible?

Or does it only matter for people who might not calibrate their display and might not care if the saturation is correct or not?

That’s what I’m trying to understand.

I agree that stuff is relevant, just not to determining my question above IMO.
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post #154 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 03:51 AM
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Yeah, that’s why they use fixed color gamuts like rec709 which most displays these days can fully produce.

And I’m not interested in whether it looks like real life but whether it looks like it did to the color grader on their grading display in the studio.

Movies definitely don’t have to look like real life. Color is altered in the mastering process for all sorts of artistic reasons. But if you want to try to appreciate the art, then trying to get your display to look like the artist’s display is a good start.

Of course you can also alter it to your own liking, but that’s a different goal.
That is your prerogative.

Agreed. Graders in editing suites aren't always trying to make things look realistic of course, but more to give some kind of visual feel to scenes as evidenced by stuff that looks more blue (sci-fi) or more yellowy (70's stuff) and other such tricks. They are still only using tools that are not perfect either.

I however consider my eyes to be the most accurate (as I do not have any other way of perceiving things) and thusly, when things on screen look how I expect them to look, then they are considered a great image.

Regardless of what a grader thought, they aren't gods either, some movies released have shocking masters that must have been done with tinted glasses on, or even with the grader closing their eyes it would seem!

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post #155 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
That is your prerogative.

Agreed. Graders in editing suites aren't always trying to make things look realistic of course, but more to give some kind of visual feel to scenes as evidenced by stuff that looks more blue (sci-fi) or more yellowy (70's stuff) and other such tricks. They are still only using tools that are not perfect either.

I however consider my eyes to be the most accurate (as I do not have any other way of perceiving things) and thusly, when things on screen look how I expect them to look, then they are considered a great image.

Regardless of what a grader thought, they aren't gods either, some movies released have shocking masters that must have been done with tinted glasses on, or even with the grader closing their eyes it would seem!
The accuracy of your eyes and what exists on the master are irrelevant and not related.

Thats your opinion... Of course you own the display and you can do what you want with it.

But, I defer to the film makers and put my trust in them, they know what they are doing...

Case in point. I just cant imagine T2 without the blue to it.. Or the Matrix without the green.

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post #156 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 04:39 AM
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The accuracy of your eyes and what exists on the master are irrelevant and not related.
They are in what I was referring to which was getting the display accurate in the first place by calibration. This by definition is surely to make it look as accurate as possible and not with a blue or green tint.
I was saying originally that unless I see a test scene with my own eyes and then see the calibrated image at the same time, I can't possibly say that it is exactly like the real scene looked (and is therefore accurate according to my perception) regardless of how accurately the display hits all the right colour targets. Chances are they will co-incide of course but I would still like to try it out for real somehow.
Technologies differ and how they present colours differ. That is all I was saying.

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Thats your opinion... Of course you own the display and you can do what you want with it.
Indeed it is, and do you know what, I will! Thanks.

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But, I defer to the film makers and put my trust in them, they know what they are doing...
I would argue that they know what they want to achieve, doesn't mean they know exactly what they are doing….

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Case in point. I just cant imagine T2 without the blue to it.. Or the Matrix without the green.
Nor can I, but they are graded that way of course. (Interesting how on the new 4K grading of the Matrix there are far more colours present than I ever remember from the VHS viewing I first saw too).

That therefore means by definition they are not accurate to life. With movies like that a calibration will literally do nothing more than 'guarantee' that the blue or green hue matches as much as possible what the director wanted. Is it really a bad thing if someone's display is a little bluer, or greener, than intended? Nope.

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post #157 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Original



White balanced in Photoshop.

Can I just ask; These two images...

The first one is how it would look on a calibrated (i.e. D65 'accurate' W/B) display and the second is more how it would look if there in person? Is that a fair assessment?

Sooooo, that means the W/B in photoshop must be way off 'accurate' to bring the blue image back to 'normal' looking. So, if the W/B settings from PS were to be retroactively applied to the display presumably it would make the image look very odd indeed would it not?

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post #158 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
The accuracy of your eyes and what exists on the master are irrelevant and not related.

Thats your opinion... Of course you own the display and you can do what you want with it.

But, I defer to the film makers and put my trust in them, they know what they are doing...
What even if your own eyes/brain was telling you that you preferred the image altered a bit?
You would still watch it according to what your sensor told you was accurate to the standards despite the image looking worse to your eyes/brains than tweaked to personal preference.
That's perverse.
If someone wants me to defer my own preferences for theirs they usually need to be paying for my time.
For stuff I spend my own time and money to do I am King.
And I think most movies are made with the aim of pleasing the audience, and so being a commercial success. Their "artistic" intent is to please me to get me to part with my time and money. Tweaking it to my personal preference is fulling that aim.

And unless you have a display that is actually capable of being completely accurate and it was calibrated using a expensive professional sensor that is absolutely accurate it might be an exercise in self-delusion that it is actually more accurate according to the meter rather than your eyes. That is the meter may only be getting you in the ball park, to hit a home run you maybe better off using your eyes.
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post #159 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 08:27 AM
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Question about Contrast ratio

There can be many problems with a display calibration process.

Color instruments vary in accuracy. When I received my PR-670 it had calculation errors in it. I worked with Photo Research to correct this. Even very expensive tools ($24,000) can be wrong. They also require understanding to use properly. I can get bad results from mine by using the default settings in the product. You must know how to use it to get accurate results.

Color instrument error increases as the light level falls. I see many display calibrations that completely fall apart in the mid tone and near black region because of this. I developed my own tools to deal with this on projectors. When you get in the mesopic region for color there is no good way to measure it relative to what an individual sees.

No color meter is close to 10 bit precision. This makes very detailed color correction impossible with a light meter. The detailed corrections must be done at the factory through an understanding of the physics of the device and mathematics coupled with an astute use of color meters.

The software and test material you are using can also be flawed. I have seen zero automatic video calibrations in the home setting that are close. Each product is different in how the controls function.

Many of the color controls in consumer displays are defective in ways that are not expected. You have to be crazy careful to avoid these issues. For example, some displays will alter color gamut with gamma changes. Others will induce loss of bit depth when you alter the color management or white balance in a certain way.

These are just some of the reasons I recommended my post production clients purchase Sony BVM and PVM monitors. These are exceptionally accurate from the factory and avoid the errors introduced by calibration outside of the factory. I also recommend Christie projectors because their calibration process uses quality mathematics with the proper method for in-house calibration. This level of quality and precision does not exist in any consumer product.

Layering a LUT or video processor in the system does not remove the challenges you will face on achieving very high levels of precision and accuracy.


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post #160 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dovercat View Post
What even if your own eyes/brain was telling you that you preferred the image altered a bit?
You would still watch it according to what your sensor told you was accurate to the standards despite the image looking worse to your eyes/brains than tweaked to personal preference.
That's perverse.
If someone wants me to defer my own preferences for theirs they usually need to be paying for my time.
For stuff I spend my own time and money to do I am King.
And I think most movies are made with the aim of pleasing the audience, and so being a commercial success. Their "artistic" intent is to please me to get me to part with my time and money. Tweaking it to my personal preference is fulling that aim.
Before any possible diatribe about how sensors are more accurate than your eyes etc etc comes along….

I too watch with my eyes not a sensor.

P.S. I understand that calibration is good to get your display to be accurate movie wise. (mine is calibrated professionally) But even then, D65 is far more yellow looking than sunlight and to me it usually has slightly yellowy whites regardless if that is how it is 'supposed to look'. I often merely switch to D75 and things look a lot more lifelike, which I find pleasing.

This is one of those things that can be argued about ad infinitum and I am not saying anyone is wrong or I am right or anything, but I do know how *I* like things to look and that is way more towards what I see using my eyes in the real world.

And on that token, no one is a heathen or a bad person just because they think the director/colour grader might be colour blind due to the finished article in their hand. (Notwithstanding obvious 'by design' visuals such as the Matrix and T2 etc of course).
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post #161 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by umr View Post
There can be many problems with a display calibration process.

Color instruments vary in accuracy. When I received my PR-670 it had calculation errors in it. I worked with Photo Research to correct this. Even very expensive tools ($24,000) can be wrong. They also require understanding to use properly. I can get bad results from mine by using the default settings in the product. You must know how to use it to get accurate results.

Color instrument error increases as the light level falls. I see many display calibrations that completely fall apart in the mid tone and near black region because of this. I developed my own tools to deal with this on projectors. When you get in the mesopic region for color there is no good way to measure it relative to what an individual sees.

No color meter is close to 10 bit precision. This makes very detailed color correction impossible with a light meter. The detailed corrections must be done at the factory through an understanding of the physics of the device and mathematics coupled with an astute use of color meters.

The software and test material you are using can also be flawed. I have seen zero automatic video calibrations in the home setting that are close. Each product is different in how the controls function. Many of the color controls in consumer displays are defective in ways that are not expected. You have to be crazy careful to avoid these issues. For example, some displays will alter color gamut with gamma changes. Others will induce loss of bit depth when you alter the color management or white balance in a certain way.

These are just some of the reasons I recommended my post production clients purchase Sony BVM and PVM monitors. These are exceptionally accurate from the factory and avoid the errors introduced by calibration outside of the factory. I also recommend Christie projectors because their calibration process uses quality mathematics with the proper method for in-house calibration. This level of quality and precision does not exist in any consumer product.

Layering a LUT or video processor in the system does not remove the challenges you will face on achieving very high levels of precision and accuracy.


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A very informative post. Thanks for sharing.

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post #162 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Before any possible diatribe about how sensors are more accurate than your eyes etc etc comes along….

I too watch with my eyes not a sensor.

P.S. I understand that calibration is good to get your display to be accurate movie wise. (mine is calibrated professionally) But even then, D65 is far more yellow looking than sunlight and to me it usually has slightly yellowy whites regardless if that is how it is 'supposed to look'. I often merely switch to D75 and things look a lot more lifelike, which I find pleasing.

This is one of those things that can be argued about ad infinitum and I am not saying anyone is wrong or I am right or anything, but I do know how *I* like things to look and that is way more towards what I see using my eyes in the real world.

And on that token, no one is a heathen or a bad person just because they think the director/colour grader might be colour blind due to the finished article in their hand. (Notwithstanding obvious 'by design' visuals such as the Matrix and T2 etc of course).

I don’t see why anyone cares what you prefer. I can provide guidance on what is accurate, but personal preference is of course personal.

I will say most errors in white measurement tend to be on the red or yellow side of things. Yellowish whites may be a sign of a calibration error. I have seen many professionals end up with yellowish or reddish whites. It is pretty easy to do.

I find most people prefer a truly accurate image. I know I crave for a Sony BVM image. People with severe vision deficiencies frequently do not prefer accurate and a few want to play director and color correct everything to their preference.

I rarely have a problem with watching a film as it was intended, but there are a tiny few that I question the choices made. I do not play director and alter my display settings unless I believe the source I am watching is off. I do make that type of correction more often than I would like. When I do it is either an error in black level or that the source is SPMTE-C and not Rec 709.


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post #163 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 08:47 AM
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Here is my 2 cents on calibration and of course it is important.

I’m a low end user and I don’t even belong in this forum in many ways, but that doesn’t mean I’m not a fan of the science behind the latest and greatest things. So I don’t need to own and drive a Ferrari to enjoy reading about them or watching a movie about them even though a Ford can get me from point A to point B quite nicely.

The last several projectors I have had I used on a very meticulously made DIY painted screen wall. Great attention was made to making the wall color neutral and the room colorings ceiling flat black and walls neutral gray etc.

As to the projectors the out of the box settings needed very few adjustments. The really only major concern I adjust and I check and do it periodically is brightness, and I have a similar to day/night setting I use if I’m watching sports with elevated room lighting. Is it perfect? I’m sure it is not. Is it good enough that my eyes think it is perfect? Yes it is.

There is so much artistic altering within movies I resist all desires to fiddle around and I have watched a few movies I swore my lamp was going only to find the next movie was unbelievably perfect to my tastes.

My desire is simple. I like the lowest gain simple neutral gray that my projector has enough brightness to support in eco lamp mode and allowing for lamp dimming with age. I switch off eco for when I want some lights on in the room. Then maybe once a month or every other month I take a look at brightness and tweak it if needed.

Then I call it good enough.
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post #164 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
The accuracy of your eyes and what exists on the master are irrelevant and not related.

Thats your opinion... Of course you own the display and you can do what you want with it.

But, I defer to the film makers and put my trust in them, they know what they are doing...

Case in point. I just cant imagine T2 without the blue to it.. Or the Matrix without the green.
Terminator 2 and the Matrix are odd choices for examples as there have been lots of different versions of those films released including multiple different releases for the same format, resulting in lots of noticeably different color mastering of the same movies. And those two movies are not alone as far as having multiple releases with noticeably different color mastering. As far as trusting the makers of consumer releases knowing what they are doing, they appear to not be able to even make their own minds up about how some films should look.
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post #165 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 08:53 AM
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Here is my 2 cents on calibration and of course it is important.

I’m a low end user and I don’t even belong in this forum in many ways, but that doesn’t mean I’m not a fan of the science behind the latest and greatest things. So I don’t need to own and drive a Ferrari to enjoy reading about them or watching a movie about them even though a Ford can get me from point A to point B quite nicely.

The last several projectors I have had I used on a very meticulously made DIY painted screen wall. Great attention was made to making the wall color neutral and the room colorings ceiling flat black and walls neutral gray etc.

As to the projectors the out of the box settings needed very few adjustments. The really only major concern I adjust and I check and do it periodically is brightness, and I have a similar to day/night setting I use if I’m watching sports with elevated room lighting. Is it perfect? I’m sure it is not. Is it good enough that my eyes think it is perfect? Yes it is.

There is so much artistic altering within movies I resist all desires to fiddle around and I have watched a few movies I swore my lamp was going only to find the next movie was unbelievably perfect to my tastes.

My desire is simple. I like the lowest gain simple neutral gray that my projector has enough brightness to support in eco lamp mode and allowing for lamp dimming with age. I switch off eco for when I want some lights on in the room. Then maybe once a month or every other month I take a look at brightness and tweak it if needed.

Then I call it good enough.

You might want to look at my DIY calibration process when it is complete on YouTube if you have an iPhone or iPad.

Here is a preview...



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post #166 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by umr View Post
I don’t see why anyone cares what you prefer. I can provide guidance on what is accurate, but personal preference is of course personal.
I didn't say anyone will care, nor should they, but there are plenty who will talk one down if one doesn't agree that D65 is the be all and end all.

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Originally Posted by umr View Post
I will say most errors in white measurement tend to be on the red or yellow side of things. Yellowish whites may be a sign of a calibration error. I have seen many professionals end up with yellowish or reddish whites. It is pretty easy to do.

I find most people prefer a truly accurate image. I know I crave for a Sony BVM image. People with severe vision deficiencies frequently do not prefer accurate and a few want to play director and color correct everything to their preference.

I rarely have a problem with watching a film as it was intended, but there are a tiny few that I question the choices made. I do not play director and alter my display settings unless I believe the source I am watching is off. I do make that type of correction more often than I would like. When I do it is either an error in black level or that the source is SPMTE-C and not Rec 709.


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But that is my point, accurate for a video display is not accurate like I see the world. D65 is a yellower version of the world than I see.

As to your last point, I agree with you there. I have no problem with any of it I was just pointing out that 'video accurate' is not the same as 'real world accurate'.

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post #167 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
Here is my 2 cents on calibration and of course it is important.

I’m a low end user and I don’t even belong in this forum in many ways, but that doesn’t mean I’m not a fan of the science behind the latest and greatest things. So I don’t need to own and drive a Ferrari to enjoy reading about them or watching a movie about them even though a Ford can get me from point A to point B quite nicely.

The last several projectors I have had I used on a very meticulously made DIY painted screen wall. Great attention was made to making the wall color neutral and the room colorings ceiling flat black and walls neutral gray etc.

As to the projectors the out of the box settings needed very few adjustments. The really only major concern I adjust and I check and do it periodically is brightness, and I have a similar to day/night setting I use if I’m watching sports with elevated room lighting. Is it perfect? I’m sure it is not. Is it good enough that my eyes think it is perfect? Yes it is.

There is so much artistic altering within movies I resist all desires to fiddle around and I have watched a few movies I swore my lamp was going only to find the next movie was unbelievably perfect to my tastes.

My desire is simple. I like the lowest gain simple neutral gray that my projector has enough brightness to support in eco lamp mode and allowing for lamp dimming with age. I switch off eco for when I want some lights on in the room. Then maybe once a month or every other month I take a look at brightness and tweak it if needed.

Then I call it good enough.
That is another point. the best is purely subjective. Ferraris are considered 'the best' if you ask the layman as they are exotic and super expensive. However any little Toyota in the world will beat a Ferrari in economy, space, reliability and the fact it is built without Italian bluster and getting angry and buggering off for the afternoon (leaving the work experience kid to finish the wiring) because the boss didn't get the right coffee beans again.....

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post #168 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:01 AM
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Terminator 2 and the Matrix are odd choices for examples as there have been lots of different versions of those films released including multiple different releases for the same format, resulting in lots of noticeably different color mastering of the same movies. And those two movies are not alone as far as having multiple releases with noticeably different color mastering. As far as trusting the makers of consumer releases knowing what they are doing, they appear to not be able to even make their own minds up about how some films should look.
Spot on.

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post #169 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:06 AM
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There can be many problems with a display calibration process.

Color instruments vary in accuracy. When I received my PR-670 it had calculation errors in it. I worked with Photo Research to correct this. Even very expensive tools ($24,000) can be wrong. They also require understanding to use properly. I can get bad results from mine by using the default settings in the product. You must know how to use it to get accurate results.

Color instrument error increases as the light level falls. I see many display calibrations that completely fall apart in the mid tone and near black region because of this. I developed my own tools to deal with this on projectors. When you get in the mesopic region for color there is no good way to measure it relative to what an individual sees.

No color meter is close to 10 bit precision. This makes very detailed color correction impossible with a light meter. The detailed corrections must be done at the factory through an understanding of the physics of the device and mathematics coupled with an astute use of color meters.

The software and test material you are using can also be flawed. I have seen zero automatic video calibrations in the home setting that are close. Each product is different in how the controls function.

Many of the color controls in consumer displays are defective in ways that are not expected. You have to be crazy careful to avoid these issues. For example, some displays will alter color gamut with gamma changes. Others will induce loss of bit depth when you alter the color management or white balance in a certain way.

These are just some of the reasons I recommended my post production clients purchase Sony BVM and PVM monitors. These are exceptionally accurate from the factory and avoid the errors introduced by calibration outside of the factory. I also recommend Christie projectors because their calibration process uses quality mathematics with the proper method for in-house calibration. This level of quality and precision does not exist in any consumer product.

Layering a LUT or video processor in the system does not remove the challenges you will face on achieving very high levels of precision and accuracy.


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Have you had much experience with Barco/Projectiondesign RealColor calibration system.
Are their in factory measured primaries accurate?
They claim using the user menus to set user desired primary coordinates gives x,y results accurate to within 0.002 is that achieved and is that any good?
How stable are the primaries x,y coordinates on DLP projectors. I understand luminance of different colors varies by lamp and overtime, what about x,y coordinates are they stable determined by the color filters or do they vary overtime too.

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post #170 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:06 AM
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But that is my point, accurate for a video display is not accurate like I see the world. D65 is a yellower version of the world than I see.
How you see it is really not the point when it comes to movies. They use color for mood and story.

What it looks like when it is shot is rarely what you are getting in the source. They put test colors on the clapper board so they can more easily color correct it in post production.

Your goal is more appropriate for things that do not get color corrected like live events. I see variations in cameras on those that drive me nuts. I would be on my color controls every time they switch cameras in some if I tried to fix it. I had a conversation once with an intern for Fox Sports after a game about what they were doing wrong. He was in charge of this and admitted he knew next to nothing and this was an MLB game in Houston.




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post #171 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:12 AM
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Question about Contrast ratio

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Originally Posted by dovercat View Post
Have you had much experience with Barco/Projectiondesign RealColor calibration system.
Are their in factory measured primaries accurate?
They claim using the user menus to set user desired primary coordinates gives x,y results accurate to within 0.002 is that achieved and is that any good?
How stable are the primaries x,y coordinates on DLP projectors. I understand luminance of different colors varies by lamp and overtime, what about x,y coordinates are they stable determined by the color filters or do they vary overtime too.

I have only seen one Barco/ProjectionDesign setup that looked accurate. I did not recommend them for that reason. Sony Motion pictures used Christie and Sony monitors. Their engineers are fabulous and can use any thing want.

I don’t see a problem with lamp stability and DLP. DLP has the most stable colors of any technology. I use a Sim2 myself and could not be happier. It calibrates with xyY coordinates like you mentioned. The values you enter in the Sim2 have no relationship to reality. They require an accurate meter and skill to set right. You also need a good meter for Christie, but their method is vastly easier to get good results.


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post #172 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:17 AM
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How you see it is really not the point when it comes to movies. They use color for mood and story.

What it looks like when it is shot is rarely what you are getting in the source. They put test colors on the clapper board so they can more easily color correct it in post production.

Your goal is more appropriate for thing s that do not get color corrected like live events. I see variations in cameras on those that drive me nuts. I would be on my color controls every time they switch cameras in some if I tried to fix it. I had a conversation once with an intern for Fox Sports after a game about what they were doing wrong. He was in charge of this and admitted he knew next to nothing and this was an MLB game in Houston.




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It certainly is important when I watch movies. I only have my eyes to see them with.

I said that earlier on and I get it. Doesn't mean I have to use it like that.

My goal, as you put it, is to just have the most pleasing image to watch, for me. I am the only one who's eyes I use. I am not going to be setting my display to someone else's preference.

I will add (like I think I said earlier) that a calibrated display is a great baseline of course, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't/cannot be tweaked to more fit one's own perception of things.

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post #173 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:23 AM
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It certainly is important when I watch movies. I only have my eyes to see them with.

I said that earlier on and I get it. Doesn't mean I have to use it like that.

My goal, as you put it, is to just have the most pleasing image to watch, for me. I am the only one who's eyes I use. I am not going to be setting my display to someone else's preference.

I will add (like I think I said earlier) that a calibrated display is a great baseline of course, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't/cannot be tweaked to more fit one's own perception of things.

Sounds like you missed a career as a color artist.

I used to get dailies from a client of mine who is a cinematographer for IMAX films. I finally told him that I am not an extremely talented creative type. Everything he created was WAY better than anything I could have done.


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post #174 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:41 AM
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Sounds like you missed a career as a color artist.

I used to get dailies from a client of mine who is a cinematographer for IMAX films. I finally told him that I am not an extremely talented creative type. Everything he created was WAY better than anything I could have done.

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Funny you should say that.

My parents (and I truth be told) always said (and still say) I should have been an artist or working in that sort of arena. Somehow I got into IT instead... go figure....

Anyway, I don't paint any of my drawings anymore because I am super critical as to how accurate I can get the colours and usually end up mucking it up or being really disappointed with the finished article.

So I just do pencil drawings for fun now and even then not as much as I should do. Too much else gets in the bloody way!

Anyway, here is one of my latest drawings. Two pics, the first one is when I started it and the second is the nearly completed article.

It is all purely free hand pencil work from looking at a picture and it took me about 5 days to get to that stage.

Can anyone tell me who it is?
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post #175 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:45 AM
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Funny you should say that.

My parents (and I truth be told) always said (and still say) I should have been an artist or working in that sort of arena. Somehow I got into IT instead... go figure....

Anyway, I don't paint any of my drawings anymore because I am super critical as to how accurate I can get the colours and usually end up mucking it up or being really disappointed with the finished article.

So I just do pencil drawings for fun now and even then not as much as I should do. Too much else gets in the bloody way!

Anyway, here is one of my latest drawings. Two pics, the first one is when I started it and the second is the nearly completed article.

It is all purely free hand pencil work from looking at a picture and it took me about 5 days to get to that stage.

Can anyone tell me who it is?

I wish I had that talent. Not sure who she is, but those are very good.


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post #176 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 09:53 AM
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I wish I had that talent. Not sure who she is, but those are very good.
Thank you.

It all started when my Dad started drawing me Disney characters when I was a dot and I immediately started to copy them.

I always get nervous showing my pictures. Always have for some reason.

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post #177 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 11:28 AM
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I don’t see why anyone cares what you prefer. I can provide guidance on what is accurate, but personal preference is of course personal.

I will say most errors in white measurement tend to be on the red or yellow side of things. Yellowish whites may be a sign of a calibration error. I have seen many professionals end up with yellowish or reddish whites. It is pretty easy to do.

I find most people prefer a truly accurate image. I know I crave for a Sony BVM image. People with severe vision deficiencies frequently do not prefer accurate and a few want to play director and color correct everything to their preference.

I rarely have a problem with watching a film as it was intended, but there are a tiny few that I question the choices made. I do not play director and alter my display settings unless I believe the source I am watching is off. I do make that type of correction more often than I would like. When I do it is either an error in black level or that the source is SPMTE-C and not Rec 709.


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Do you ever watch any Full Moon Features? A lot of their releases look real bad and the only way to make them at least watchable is to turn down contrast and brightness. Even on my Dwin HD700 CRT they looked like a movie on a first generation Sceptre LCD!

On my Oppo 103-D I have two memories for too bright and too dark.

Other examples prone to this are many old anime on dvd.

The only real problem in these cases, is when faces have their forehead look like someone stuck a mini sun there. No matter what you try to do, nothing gets rid of that!
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post #178 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 12:02 PM
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It is all purely free hand pencil work from looking at a picture and it took me about 5 days to get to that stage.

Hi, Arch. I'm kind of the same in having art (water color and acoustic/electric guitar) as a hobbies, although I have to admit that my artwork is not on the same level as my guitar work, unfortunately. But, yes, hobbies are fun!

BTW, Jessie J. came out great! Nice work.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
It certainly is important when I watch movies. I only have my eyes to see them with.

I said that earlier on and I get it. Doesn't mean I have to use it like that.

My goal, as you put it, is to just have the most pleasing image to watch, for me. I am the only one who's eyes I use. I am not going to be setting my display to someone else's preference.

I will add (like I think I said earlier) that a calibrated display is a great baseline of course, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't/cannot be tweaked to more fit one's own perception of things.
I think what urm was saying regarding seeing yellow, that should not be there. If it is, then it is a problem with the calibration and if correctly calibrated, you would not be seeing that.
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post #180 of 195 Old 05-20-2020, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
It is all purely free hand pencil work from looking at a picture and it took me about 5 days to get to that stage. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Hi, Arch. I'm kind of the same in having art (water color and acoustic/electric guitar) as a hobbies, although I have to admit that my artwork is not on the same level as my guitar work, unfortunately. But, yes, hobbies are fun!

BTW, Jessie J. came out great! Nice work.
Thanks very much! Most kind.
Hobbies are great especially ones one happens to be good at.
I have never been to art school or suchlike I can just do it. Hard to explain otherwise.
Yay you win a prize! Ummm, will lifetime access to AVS do?
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