Panning Bright Artifacts - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 11 Old 06-20-2020, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Panning Bright Artifacts

I have a new NX5 but have had other projectors before RS-20 and a VW90.

I've never noticed this on any of the other projectors, but I'm starting to wonder if it happens on all projectors and I simply didn't notice it... OR it's only happening on my current projector and it's either "normal" or a problem.

Basically it only happens with flesh tones (at least that's what I've observed) when the camera pans, there are these very bright... pretty much white highlights that trail behind slightly during the pan.

It's fairly annoying when I see it, but I don't see it all the time.

Is this just a normal thing with all projectors or is this a problem.

I'm using no motion enhance whatsoever BTW.
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post #2 of 11 Old 06-20-2020, 08:47 PM
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Sounds like inverse ghosting(overshooting), the native 2160p lcos panels low ansi contrast may be accentuating it in certain scenes.
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post #3 of 11 Old 06-21-2020, 01:29 PM
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Sounds just like the JVCs motion enhance that shouldn't be used. Are you sure it is not On?

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post #4 of 11 Old 06-21-2020, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
Sounds just like the JVCs motion enhance that shouldn't be used. Are you sure it is not On?
What's interesting is I think the pixel shifting actually improved motion performance on the JVCs due to operating at a higher internal refresh rate in order to accomplish the shifting and avoiding sample and hold which exaggerates ghosting. That in combination with the overshoot compensation. If he's seeing bright ghosting than I would imagine there's an issue with the overshoot compensation with the native 2160p panels and the lack of shifting reducing sample and hold artifacts.

I would recommend trying frame interpolation on low or black frame insertion if the newer JVCs have it.

Here's an example of voltage overshoot with and without compensation.

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post #5 of 11 Old 06-21-2020, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imatk View Post
I have a new NX5 but have had other projectors before RS-20 and a VW90.

I've never noticed this on any of the other projectors, but I'm starting to wonder if it happens on all projectors and I simply didn't notice it... OR it's only happening on my current projector and it's either "normal" or a problem.

Basically it only happens with flesh tones (at least that's what I've observed) when the camera pans, there are these very bright... pretty much white highlights that trail behind slightly during the pan.

It's fairly annoying when I see it, but I don't see it all the time.

Is this just a normal thing with all projectors or is this a problem.

I'm using no motion enhance whatsoever BTW.
Sounds like motion enhance is turned on to me.
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post #6 of 11 Old 06-21-2020, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Sounds like inverse ghosting(overshooting), the native 2160p lcos panels low ansi contrast may be accentuating it in certain scenes.
Don't think so. I think he is using settings that is causing the problem.
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post #7 of 11 Old 06-22-2020, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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You guys were right. I thought I had the motion control off... it was set to low.

All fixed now!
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post #8 of 11 Old 06-22-2020, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imatk View Post
You guys were right. I thought I had the motion control off... it was set to low. All fixed now!
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Don't think so. I think he is using settings that is causing the problem.
(・。・) 

lol

So was seeing interpolation artifacts as bright ghosting?
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post #9 of 11 Old 06-22-2020, 03:24 PM
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Frame interpolation converts 24p to 60p? If they would convert to 72p, would we still see the soap opera effect?

With my CRT I'd use 1080i72. But there wasn't any FI going on, I'd just show the same frame three times. That would get rid of the strobing effect with 3:2 at 1080p60, but wouldn't make the motion any smoother.

Anyway, 1080i72 never did bother me, and actually looked better than 1080p24/48, etc using LCOS or LCD, which just looked jarring.
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post #10 of 11 Old 06-23-2020, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
(・。・) 

lol

So was seeing interpolation artifacts as bright ghosting?
JVC's "Motion Enhance" setting is not interpolation. It's somekind of "panel overdrive".

Interpolation is called Clear Motion Drive, aka. CMD. That doesn't cause the phenomenon described.

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post #11 of 11 Old 06-23-2020, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
JVC's "Motion Enhance" setting is not interpolation. It's somekind of "panel overdrive". Interpolation is called Clear Motion Drive, aka. CMD. That doesn't cause the phenomenon described.
Oh, hmm.. I have a 144hz AMVA panel and motion acceleration helps with ghosting. That panels response is slower than LCOS though at 12ms black to white. Maybe due to JVCs overshoot compensation adding voltage overdrive causes inverse ghosting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debonaire View Post
Frame interpolation converts 24p to 60p? If they would convert to 72p, would we still see the soap opera effect? With my CRT I'd use 1080i72. But there wasn't any FI going on, I'd just show the same frame three times. That would get rid of the strobing effect with 3:2 at 1080p60, but wouldn't make the motion any smoother. Anyway, 1080i72 never did bother me, and actually looked better than 1080p24/48, etc using LCOS or LCD, which just looked jarring.
3/2p at 60hz does look different than 23p not just considering the artifacting. If youre accustomed to 3/2 and switch to 23p it will look like a bit of soapy effect and take some getting used to. Frame interpolation will probably always have a soapy look due to the high frame rate look. Like Hobbit HFR looked very different.
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