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post #31 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
For my part, the blatant attacks on me with links to youtube videos calling me a dumb chimp were deleted so you can't see them. That is who I was responding to in that post, but I agree with you, especially on niche custom huge home theaters (and not the 99% of people who are dealing with 15' rooms) with $50,000 laser projectors (at least for now). I've messages Mark about other that stuff now.

Lets have this out though. Lets get someone to do a review of a 77" LG OLED with seating at 7 feet vs a say $30,000 projector to a 120" screen sitting at 15' and see which is better. Same theater, just move the seats. Data speaks louder then anything. Im perfectly happy having rational discussions and being proved wrong which is the scientific method.

IMO 15' is too far away for a 120" screen.



Certainly not an attack against you, as everyone is different. A 77" OLED would make an excellent intimate theater for one sitting extremely close to the set for immersive effect. For more than one person you would have problems with viewing angles trying to get everyone close enough for an immersive experience.



OLED's have advantages though as most projectors don't give a decent picture with the lights on, but until they have screens 120" or more they won't replace projectors for home cinema use
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post #32 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
Lets have this out though. Lets get someone to do a review of a 77" LG OLED with seating at 7 feet vs a say $30,000 projector to a 120" screen sitting at 15' and see which is better. Same theater, just move the seats. Data speaks louder then anything. Im perfectly happy having rational discussions and being proved wrong which is the scientific method.
All things viewing environment the same I prefer a Sim2 Mico to OLED =/ Motion i.e. video, is superior, color performance is superior. And a modern $30,000 version of it with better contrast full bt2020 and brighter? No contest. Only qd microled will be able to compete with DLPs video rendering ability.

If you want to have a rational discussion you really need to incorporate the transparent screen aspect into your data.
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post #33 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
For my part, the blatant attacks on me with links to youtube videos calling me a dumb chimp were deleted so you can't see them. That is who I was responding to in that post, but I agree with you, especially on niche custom huge home theaters (and not the 99% of people who are dealing with 15' rooms) with $50,000 laser projectors (at least for now). I've messages Mark about other that stuff now.

Lets have this out though. Lets get someone to do a review of a 77" LG OLED with seating at 7 feet vs a say $30,000 projector to a 120" screen sitting at 15' and see which is better. Same theater, just move the seats. Data speaks louder then anything. Im perfectly happy having rational discussions and being proved wrong which is the scientific method.
Only focusing on relative size is a mistake. Absolute size matters very much for getting that cinematic, larger than life experience. If the heads of the characters aren't bigger than my own in absolute numbers it feels small. Moving closer doesn't change that.

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post #34 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wookiegr View Post
When I can buy a 165" flat panel TV for $3000 I still won't be able to fit in through my door or down the stairs so Projector it is then.
I guess i should clarify "acoustically transparent"... 🙄
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post #35 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
Lets have this out though. Lets get someone to do a review of a 77" LG OLED with seating at 7 feet vs a say $30,000 projector to a 120" screen sitting at 15' and see which is better. Same theater, just move the seats. Data speaks louder then anything. Im perfectly happy having rational discussions and being proved wrong which is the scientific method.

Why a $30,000 projector? I've got an OLED in the living room and another in the bedroom, and I'd still rather watch my <$7,000 NX7 any day of the week, especially for film viewing.


Other than the size of the image and how immersive the viewing experience is, watching content reflected from a quality screen is so much more comfortable on the eyes than a glossy TV in my opinion...especially if you are talking about large displays and close seating distances.
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post #36 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 08:34 PM
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For me, it has been exactly opposite! I had a 65" LG OLED for about 3 years and I thought there was nothing that could beat the experience.. it was so amazing when I got it.. better than any crappy projector I was using before. Then I got a 4K HDR projector in March displaying 150" scope picture (Epson 5050ub which is not even the top of line JVCs)..... I have not turned on my OLED TV since then.... LOL. My kids refuse to watch the TV and will only watch movies on the projector.
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post #37 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
For my part, the blatant attacks on me with links to youtube videos calling me a dumb chimp were deleted so you can't see them. That is who I was responding to in that post, but I agree with you, especially on niche custom huge home theaters (and not the 99% of people who are dealing with 15' rooms) with $50,000 laser projectors (at least for now). I've messages Mark about other that stuff now.

Lets have this out though. Lets get someone to do a review of a 77" LG OLED with seating at 7 feet vs a say $30,000 projector to a 120" screen sitting at 15' and see which is better. Same theater, just move the seats. Data speaks louder then anything. Im perfectly happy having rational discussions and being proved wrong which is the scientific method.
You keep saying 50,000 laser. You do not need a $50,000 laser projector. Besides, most of those do not give you the best image. They just give you more lumens. Also, why are you saying sit at 15' to a 120" screen? That makes zero sense. Did you not pay attention to my link earlier? 15' from a 120" screen and you do not even get the full benefit of 1080P. Almost nobody with a 4K projector is viewing that size screen from that distance. Even in the 1080P days, most would have been using 13/14' viewing distance or less for a 120" screen. https://www.rgb.com/display-size-res...ewing-distance

You also do not have to have a huge room. My room is only 13'-6" deep. I have an RS3000, DCR lens and a Lumagen. My viewing height ratio for scope movies is 108/46 = 2.35. Yours is 84/28 = 3.0. You would have to move to 5'-6" to equal. You also do not have to spend a huge amount of money to get a great image. Heck, an RS2000 paired with a Stewart ST130 G4 screen with give you a killer image, as long as you set the room up properly.
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post #38 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
Lets have this out though. Lets get someone to do a review of a 77" LG OLED with seating at 7 feet vs a say $30,000 projector to a 120" screen sitting at 15' and see which is better. Same theater, just move the seats.
Who would do this, and why?

I sit 9ft away from my 135" screen. So by your example, I should compare that to a 77" OLED from 4ft?
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post #39 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I very much recognize that everyone is an expert here but I've been doing this myself for 30 years. There's little you can do to convince me that any normal projector can even remotely effectively compete against the OLED given similar viewing ratios with out a doubt (good luck with even the brightness in hdr). This isn't a fan-boy thing, I've primarily run projectors for 15 years. Qualifying that in a normal 95%+ situation in the market. People can give dance around the topic and do the usual "you need to see one calibrated" (typical argument that is grasping at straws... or a strawman itself). I've been around here for a while and there is a few guys I know here who know there stuff whom I have taken their advice like bigmouthdc in home theater. Other then that, I think we are getting pulled around again by vendors and people who are either really fan boy about there tech or they are vendors with fanatical interest in shooting down comments like this (for any normal person who may be reading this thread). It would be nice if posters noted if they are in this industry with financial interest. That all I have to say about this. Until we see a true scientific comparison, I trust my own visual acuity more then what Im hearing from some people here. I have no doubt that purchasing a 77" OLED in my new theater with seating closer to the source will be vastly suspicious in any possible way then any projector for anything near 3x the price. Prove that wrong with data and I will admit Im wrong. Call me a troll, call me a dump chimp... I've been dealing with trolls since before the internet was http... it really doesn't phase me. But prove me wrong with data and I will fully agree. Again, there is a history here of people who attach to things and dont give them up (I fought the hd-dvd people even though I had a unit) and I dont feel I've been wrong. Sorry if that breaks some peoples vested interests. All you gotta do is read the quote in my titles to know how I feel. I have a computer science teacher once tell me Intel would never make a chip faster then the Pentium 100mhz proc since you could boil eggs on it. I challenged him, he got upset, but I was right... my new i9-10900K sure is a bit faster. These forums have become impossible to try to have civil discourse in so... ya... Im out of here. To much ego...

Maybe Ill come back in 10 year and give it a "I told you so"... but you'd probably call me a dumb chimp again.

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post #40 of 400 Old 06-24-2020, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
I very much recognize that everyone is an expert here but I've been doing this myself for 30 years. There's little you can do to convince me that any normal projector can even remotely effectively compete against the OLED given similar viewing ratios with out a doubt (good luck with even the brightness in hdr). This isn't a fan-boy thing, I've primarily run projectors for 15 years. Qualifying that in a normal 95%+ situation in the market. People can give dance around the topic and do the usual "you need to see one calibrated" (typical argument that is grasping at straws... or a strawman itself). I've been around here for a while and there is a few guys I know here who know there stuff whom I have taken their advice like bigmouthdc in home theater. Other then that, I think we are getting pulled around again by vendors and people who are either really fan boy about there tech or they are vendors with fanatical interest in shooting down comments like this (for any normal person who may be reading this thread). It would be nice if posters noted if they are in this industry with financial interest. That all I have to say about this. Until we see a true scientific comparison, I trust my own visual acuity more then what Im hearing from some people here. I have no doubt that purchasing a 77" OLED in my new theater with seating closer to the source will be vastly suspicious in any possible way then any projector for anything near 3x the price. Prove that wrong with data and I will admit Im wrong. Call me a troll, call me a dump chimp... I've been dealing with trolls since before the internet was http... it really doesn't phase me. But prove me wrong with data and I will fully agree. Again, there is a history here of people who attach to things and dont give them up (I fought the hd-dvd people even though I had a unit) and I dont feel I've been wrong. Sorry if that breaks some peoples vested interests. All you gotta do is read the quote in my titles to know how I feel. I have a computer science teacher once tell me Intel would never make a chip faster then the Pentium 100mhz proc since you could boil eggs on it. I challenged him, he got upset, but I was right... my new i9-10900K sure is a bit faster. These forums have become impossible to try to have civil discourse in so... ya... Im out of here. To much ego...

Maybe Ill come back in 10 year and give it a "I told you so"... but you'd probably call me a dumb chimp again.
Here is why your scenario falls apart. You suggest that sitting closer to a 77" TV will be "vastly superior" to sitting far away from a bigger screen. If that is the case, why are you looking at upgrading to a 77" TV when you could save thousands by just moving closer to your 65"?
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post #41 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 12:31 AM
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The other problem sitting close to a 65/77" TV to get the immersion factor is speaker placement. Watching movies on a 77" 16:9 TV and using a THX recommended horizontal viewing angle of 50 degrees for scope movies, you would need to sit 6 feet away from the screen. Other than multiple people watching, you would exceed the recommended 22-30 degree angle to the front speakers never mind the surround and ATMOS speaker placement. For the 16:9 movies the vertical viewing angle would be higher than recommended (no greater than 15 degrees to top or bottom of screen) so we come back to the CIH agrument for projectors...
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post #42 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wookiegr View Post
When I can buy a 165" flat panel TV for $3000 I still won't be able to fit in through my door or down the stairs so Projector it is then.
Ahhh but, when they get that big they will be rolled up like a carpet roll so you will be able to get it in the house
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post #43 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
Lets have this out though. Lets get someone to do a review of a 77" LG OLED with seating at 7 feet vs a say $30,000 projector to a 120" screen sitting at 15' and see which is better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
There's little you can do to convince me that any normal projector can even remotely effectively compete against the OLED given similar viewing ratios
Quote:
Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
Until we see a true scientific comparison, I trust my own visual acuity more then what Im hearing from some people here. I have no doubt that purchasing a 77" OLED in my new theater with seating closer to the source will be vastly suspicious in any possible way then any projector for anything near 3x the price. Prove that wrong with data and I will admit Im wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
People can give dance around the topic and do the usual "you need to see one calibrated" (typical argument that is grasping at straws... or a strawman itself).
In my opinion three factors work in favour of using a larger screen.

1. Eyes provide reference as to true image size and shape that it is a flat image. Through eye focus distance accommodation and binocular disparity. The greater the viewing distance the less strong those visual cues are and the more dependent your brain is on visual cues in the image. Making it easier for a larger screen at a greater distance to create the illusion of being a hole in the wall through which you are seeing reality rather than simply a nice display showing a pretty image.
2. The amount of the viewer's field of view the image occupies effects immersion.
3. Films are shot to be shown on large screens at distance. The field of view in the image and visual cues in the image probably work best when displayed that way as far as providing an immersive experience.

So the question to me becomes if 77" is large enough. The answer I think is no.
To achieve a 45 degree horizontal field of view you would need to be 6'9" away from the screen, and for a 50 degree field of view 6' away from the screen. Too close.

Likewise I would not choose to be 15' from a 120" projector screen. That gives a 32.4 degree horizontal field of view. Too small a field of view. But with a 120" screen you could sit 10'6" away for a 45 degree field of view. Now with a 130", 140",150"+ you are even more able to sit far enough away from the screen while achieving a large enough field of view.

And rather than being more expensive than a large flat panel TV some people use projectors because they are cheaper.

I also disagree on calibration the difference adjustments make to the image is massive.

Far from being dead I think led and laser will bring new life to the projector market. As they enable instant on/off and use of projectors with no concern for light source life. While as far as image quality goes DLP has the potential to improve if Christie's sequential chip design or Barco's light steering or Sim2's overlaid images eventually make it into affordable consumer products.

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post #44 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 04:20 AM
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Maybe Ill come back in 10 year and give it a "I told you so"

I agree that in 10 or 15 years, I imagine that there is a decent chance there will be some sort of technology that makes projectors obsolete, and it could be OLED panels - but it's not going to be a 77" screen of any technology.


One major hurdle is price. For a flat panel style technology to replace projectors for immersive technology, it would have to be reasonably affordable. I mean with today's projectors you can buy a $2K projector and a $250 screen and have a decent 120" image. No it won't have OLED or LCoS blacks, but a decent picture none the less and at an impressive (and immersive) size.



You are also assuming people care about top tier picture quality and black levels. I saw CRT booted by (far) inferior looking LCD's and Plasma's. Plasma finally got pretty good, but they got killed off by inferior looking LCD's. Blu-Ray and 4K UHD disks are being killed off by streaming - which is far inferior. Heck, I see people with $10K projectors that stream most of their sources. You'd think with that much money in equipment that you would feed them the best signal possible.

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post #45 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
I very much recognize that everyone is an expert here but I've been doing this myself for 30 years. There's little you can do to convince me that any normal projector can even remotely effectively compete against the OLED given similar viewing ratios with out a doubt (good luck with even the brightness in hdr).
Size is size, the most important thing for a movie is size as long as the quality is close enough, otherwise why would anyone even go to a theater (don't say for the popcorn or hotdogs, they aren't that good)...

Movie theater projectors cannot compare to a modern JVC in a dedicated theater as far as contrast, the sharpness is about the same though (very close usually, few exceptions). So if people are willing to go from an oLED at home to the movie theater, then they should definitely be willing to use a JVC instead of their smaller oLED TV.

No-one really disagrees the smaller glossier image will look better with more POP, but is better always really better?
Would you want to listen to an old blues recording on a perfectly cleaned up CD or a perfectly scratch free record?

The truth is a modern JVC gets close enough compared to an oLED in most respects for most people that it makes the larger image worth it. Of course if the projector was bad, then that might be another story.

I did not read the entire thread, but people need to calm down as a simple reference to a genetically modified animal is not really cause for getting worried about a thread, there are so many better reasons.

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post #46 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 04:56 AM
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Are projectors dead? No. Are they a niche item? Sure, but AFAIK they always have been. I trust my visual acuity and while a scientific comparison may eventually prove me wrong I have yet to see a TV that delivers a better cinematic experience than projection on a big screen.
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post #47 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 05:30 AM
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I dont understand 8k for home entertainment at all, 4k I get there are instances where the resolution is beneficial, but 8k? There are a myriad of other areas of video performance to be improved without needing ghe processing for 8k upscaling or the bandwidth for 8k source resolution.


Dollar for dollar theres some truth to this. The Eclipse is expensive, but its the reference for HDR viewing now. Old DLP projectors from 10 years ago using the 0.95" dmd and phlatlight pt120 leds were able to hit 90% bt2020 at 600 lumens using 250w. They didnt have oled black floor, but the color and pixel performance and sharpness, especially the models with the premium lenses, can render a very high contrast image.

We should hopefully see 2chip dlp in the future which should hopefully provide 100k:1+ contrast, and rgb laser dlp is just now inching its way under $10k.

The challenge for oled to overcome is maintaing brightness while using pulsed rolling scan to avoid sample and hold. Motion is so much better on my mico40 than by lg b9 the contrast almost doesnt matter sometimes.


The problem isn't contrast. Its the pixel level control over brightness which OLEDS have and what HDR is designed around. How can projector compete or re-create specular highlights which an OLED can do.

I saw Kingdom on my OLED and their torches looked amazing when holding them during a dimly light (not dark scene). I remember seeing that same scene on my PJ and it didn't have this dimension of image quality because the tech can't recreate it.

Tone mapping sadly can only really address a whole image.. not specular details.



I agree. 8k is utter trash crap. I'd rather they revisit 3D or just increase panel sizes.
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post #48 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tleavit View Post
I very much recognize that everyone is an expert here but I've been doing this myself for 30 years. There's little you can do to convince me that any normal projector can even remotely effectively compete against the OLED given similar viewing ratios with out a doubt (good luck with even the brightness in hdr). This isn't a fan-boy thing, I've primarily run projectors for 15 years. Qualifying that in a normal 95%+ situation in the market. People can give dance around the topic and do the usual "you need to see one calibrated" (typical argument that is grasping at straws... or a strawman itself). I've been around here for a while and there is a few guys I know here who know there stuff whom I have taken their advice like bigmouthdc in home theater. Other then that, I think we are getting pulled around again by vendors and people who are either really fan boy about there tech or they are vendors with fanatical interest in shooting down comments like this (for any normal person who may be reading this thread). It would be nice if posters noted if they are in this industry with financial interest. That all I have to say about this. Until we see a true scientific comparison, I trust my own visual acuity more then what Im hearing from some people here. I have no doubt that purchasing a 77" OLED in my new theater with seating closer to the source will be vastly suspicious in any possible way then any projector for anything near 3x the price. Prove that wrong with data and I will admit Im wrong. Call me a troll, call me a dump chimp... I've been dealing with trolls since before the internet was http... it really doesn't phase me. But prove me wrong with data and I will fully agree. Again, there is a history here of people who attach to things and dont give them up (I fought the hd-dvd people even though I had a unit) and I dont feel I've been wrong. Sorry if that breaks some peoples vested interests. All you gotta do is read the quote in my titles to know how I feel. I have a computer science teacher once tell me Intel would never make a chip faster then the Pentium 100mhz proc since you could boil eggs on it. I challenged him, he got upset, but I was right... my new i9-10900K sure is a bit faster. These forums have become impossible to try to have civil discourse in so... ya... Im out of here. To much ego...

Maybe Ill come back in 10 year and give it a "I told you so"... but you'd probably call me a dumb chimp again.
There is little you can do to convince a flat earther that the world is round, but that does not mean they are right. You say you trust your own visual acuity more than what you are hearing here, but so far all you have said that you have compared to is an Epson Home Cinema 4000. You have not told us anything about your room, other than saying it is like 95% of the people out there. But you have posted this in the $3,000 plus section of the forum, where a lot of us have light controlled dedicated rooms. Many of us have black pits, where we can maximize the contrast of the image. Without more info on what you have experience with, it just sounds like you have not seen a good front projector setup in a dedicated room. Maybe you have, but if you have, you have not told us. I have asked about your room, twice and you have not responded back, that tells me something right there.

To get the kind of viewing angles many of us use here, you would have to sit around 5' from your TV. While that can get you equal viewing angles, it hurts you on the audio side. A few posters touched on audio earlier, regarding an AT screen, which you obviously can't do with a TV. How do you get this TV setup to work for more than one person? Two chairs side by side 5' from a 77" TV is not going to work very well audio wise.

You want data, that is easy enough to do. In this section of the forum start a poll. In the poll have two sections. Section one is for people with dedicated room that have a front projector setup and an OLED. Ask them which they prefer for their serious watching. The second section would be for people that have a front projector setup (not in a dedicated room) and an OLED. Ask them which they prefer for their serious movie watching. You have already heard from three OLED owners in this thread, where all of them said they pick their front projector setups over their OLED TV's. I have talked to a lot of guys that have OLED TV's and front projector setup's and I think pretty much all of they prefer movie watching on their front projectors.

As for 10 years from now and telling us, I told you so. What does that have to do with anything? The argument is based on the current situation. 10 years from now we could easily have something that replaces front projection. I have seen all of the LED walls and I can tell you right now those are not ready to replace front projection in the home at this time, but that does not mean that things will not change in the future.
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post #49 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 06:14 AM
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You keep saying 50,000 laser. You do not need a $50,000 laser projector. Besides, most of those do not give you the best image. They just give you more lumens. Also, why are you saying sit at 15' to a 120" screen? That makes zero sense. Did you not pay attention to my link earlier? 15' from a 120" screen and you do not even get the full benefit of 1080P. Almost nobody with a 4K projector is viewing that size screen from that distance. Even in the 1080P days, most would have been using 13/14' viewing distance or less for a 120" screen. https://www.rgb.com/display-size-res...ewing-distance

You also do not have to have a huge room. My room is only 13'-6" deep. I have an RS3000, DCR lens and a Lumagen. My viewing height ratio for scope movies is 108/46 = 2.35. Yours is 84/28 = 3.0. You would have to move to 5'-6" to equal. You also do not have to spend a huge amount of money to get a great image. Heck, an RS2000 paired with a Stewart ST130 G4 screen with give you a killer image, as long as you set the room up properly.
It's a dramatic overreach to try and justify a ridiculous theory.
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post #50 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 06:29 AM
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The problem isn't contrast. Its the pixel level control over brightness which OLEDS have and what HDR is designed around. How can projector compete or re-create specular highlights which an OLED can do.
This is how.

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The Christie Eclipse uses dual DMDs in a way that achieves pixel level luminance control, as per an OLED TV but with projection. Think of it being akin to FALD but with a projector instead of a TV, wherein whilst the primary DMDs which make up the video image are native 4K resolution, the secondary DMDs which govern the pixel level luminance control are HD1080p resolution meaning that there is the equivalent of 2,073,600 'Dimming Zones'.

The result is literally akin to OLED level contrast performance, but with super-high brightness, without OLED's brightness limitations, and none of the uniformity issues that afflict OLED, plus 12-bit color depth and approaching the full BT.2020 color gamut. Whilst also supporting up to 4K120 with 2D, Active 3D with 4K60 into each eye at high brightness with zero crosstalk (the best 3D performance), and 4K60 fullscreen two player gaming (Christie View), the Eclipse actually significantly outperforms OLED, and in fact literally everything else as well, in more ways than one.
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post #51 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 06:39 AM
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For my part, the blatant attacks on me with links to youtube videos calling me a dumb chimp were deleted so you can't see them. That is who I was responding to in that post, but I agree with you, especially on niche custom huge home theaters (and not the 99% of people who are dealing with 15' rooms) with $50,000 laser projectors (at least for now). I've messages Mark about other that stuff now.

Lets have this out though. Lets get someone to do a review of a 77" LG OLED with seating at 7 feet vs a say $30,000 projector to a 120" screen sitting at 15' and see which is better. Same theater, just move the seats. Data speaks louder then anything. Im perfectly happy having rational discussions and being proved wrong which is the scientific method.
At some point seating closer just does not make the same impact otherwise I would just strap my phone or tablet right up to my nose and get the big-screen effect. I seat about 11' from a 140" screen which is where I find a good balance between size and not seeing too much noise if its a noisy movie (which of course I can always use zoom memory if I feel like as well to change this). OLEDs are beautiful but a projector impact they just do not have, for me at least.
As for being attacked..you said this is the 2nd time you try this so what is your goal here? Because this is the projector forum and you come here to tell people projectors are dead...doesn't that sound like trolling? Did you expect an open arms reception?

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post #52 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 06:53 AM
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77" OLED against my 116" 2.35 fixed frame screen when watching scope movies:





I bought my Runco RS1100 Ultra for 850$. Not JVC blacks and far not OLED blacks but I'm very pleased with overall IQ and most of the size. Of course TV's are better multimedia, gaming devices, but for movie time Projector rules.

And I hate large black holes in my living room.
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post #53 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 07:01 AM
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I have a 640 in a blacked out room and a few months ago I bought a 4k for the room next door. I played around with the new tv for a few days but It's a joke compared to my JVC and I would never ever considered watching a movie on this new tv. It's a baby compared to my 640 and now with DV it just kills everything.. Size rules in this game..


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post #54 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 07:11 AM
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Who would do this, and why?

I sit 9ft away from my 135" screen. So by your example, I should compare that to a 77" OLED from 4ft?
I sit 7 feet from my 135" so yea I was figuring about 4 feet from a 77" is about the same.
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post #55 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 07:27 AM
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If a 77 inch screen is enough then projectors are dead. Personally, unless I was sitting 4-5ft feet from the screen, a 77" TV wouldn't feel immersive to me. Do OLED's have advantages over projectors - absolutely, but you just can't get an immersive experience (especially for multiple people in a room at the same time) with a TV. Now my TV is only 64" but it's a dang good Plasma that I think looks as good or better than OLED, and I can't bring myself to watch any movies on it - it's for casual TV only.


I think the biggest "threat" to projectors are screen walls like the Samsung "The Wall" but at $400K they are a long way off from being mainstream. Of course the Christie Eclipse projector seems to have specs that best an OLED TV so maybe there is hope for projectors after all
This. I LOVE my LG 65" OLED G7P. But unless I'm pulling up my chair to sit 4 feet away i'm not getting a movie theatre-like experience, and i'm definitely not getting the same sound since my family room isn't wired for sound. 4K UHD discs can look just about as good on my 138" screen space with my Epson at 10' as they do on my 65" at 5 feet.
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post #56 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 10:21 AM
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I've always said I would take a 100+ inch OLED rolled up or permanent installed version any time, if price is right (maybe not yet). The contrast, viewing angles, DV, and a ton of others....


I do have a home theater with an old Onkyo Projector and a C8 OLED. Waiting it out so I do not have to go to the DiLA route.
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post #57 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 10:30 AM
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Blacks are amazing on OLED . Picture is stunning.

Way too small for the price. Way too expensive for the largest sizes.

JVC RS3000, DCR LENS, Lumagen/madVR Envy, and a Stewart Studiotek 130 G4 will set you back around $30K. But your screen can be 150+inches with that combination. You could the substitute JVC RS2000 and madVR HTPC and cut that budget in half and still be almost as spectacular.

It will be very close to the best OLED IMHO but way way bigger. 98 inch OLED will run you $60K. And still won't be anywhere close to being a movie theater experience. You can't place speakers behind a television.

Projectors are only getting more popular not less, with COVID increasing people's desires to create the movie experience at home without all the anxiety of catching COVID19.

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You nailed it right there. We missed going to the movie theater because of Covid-19. So I decided to get a projector with a 150" screen. This was my first projector. I paired the screen with a BenQ HT9060 led projector. And Oh Lord! The size and the color of the picture was just amazing. I guess size do matter when it comes to watching movies on a big screen.
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post #58 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 10:46 AM
 
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You nailed it right there. We missed going to the movie theater because of Covid-19. So I decided to get a projector with a 150" screen. This was my first projector. I paired the screen with a BenQ HT9060 led projector. And Oh Lord! The size and the color of the picture was just amazing. I guess size do matter when it comes to watching movies on a big screen.
Yes!! You are absolutely right. That is a sweet projector. Congratulations!! Enjoy!

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post #59 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 10:47 AM
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In my HTR I have a BenQ HT3550 projector and sit 12ft from the 130 inch acoustically transparent screen. Mostly watch 3D movies which none of the newer TV's can do anymore. For TV shows, news, sports I watch on my Sony XBR85X950G, about 16 feet from the TV. Projectors will never die.
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post #60 of 400 Old 06-25-2020, 10:51 AM
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IMO 15' is too far away for a 120" screen.



Certainly not an attack against you, as everyone is different. A 77" OLED would make an excellent intimate theater for one sitting extremely close to the set for immersive effect. For more than one person you would have problems with viewing angles trying to get everyone close enough for an immersive experience.



OLED's have advantages though as most projectors don't give a decent picture with the lights on, but until they have screens 120" or more they won't replace projectors for home cinema use
you are suppose to be 1.5 - 2.0 times diagonal back from the screen to keep your eyes from being fatigued.
this ratio is fixed, being that we are humans. the technology may say bigger is available, but it is not better.
quality is better, deeper blacks, brighter screens, more colors, more pixels to make cleaner lines,
but 1.5 - 2.0 times diagonal back is fixed.

1.5 times back for a 77" screen is 9.7 ft.
1.5 times back for a 120" screen is 15.0 ft.

you also need room behind for good speaker placement, so add 3ft plus.
120" projector requires 18ft deep room.
the ******* who wants 200" needs 300/12=25 +3 = 28ft deep +++.

i'm currently trying to buy a home with about 18 of depth.
that requires, 18-3=15*12/1.5=120 in screen max.
maybe i want to be a little further back than 1.5 let's say 1.7 , and i want to be 3 ft from the speaker that are 2 ft from the rear wall.
18-(3+2)=13*12/1.7= 91" screen. that's what i think that room supports.
can i get an ultra high end LCD, close to that, in 8k resolution, for $10000 ... maybe.
that's the goal.
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