Real 2.35:1 projector is here! Or is it? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 40 Old 11-01-2005, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Canon revealed a new projector prototype at their Canon Expo in Tokyo. Surprisingly good looking ID and a 2.5:1 wide image!!!

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...26/canon32.jpg

And here is the prototype, with a small camera built-in that detects and masking out the presenter figure, so it is obviously a data projector. But, with some modification, it can be made into a unique 2.35:1 home theater projector!

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...26/canon31.jpg

I wonder what is the "native resolution"? From the text, it reads like modified from SX50 and with a wide angle lens, imagine if this is a 1080p LCOS panel with a 16x9 lens in Canon's patented small LCOS and bright implementation! :D

Canon could become King of Home THeater if they do this!! Move over, SONY, let's make some room for the new King ... :cool:
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post #2 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 01:32 AM
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Hi TzungILin

You mention a "text". Do you have a link so we can read this text?

best regards
Lars

EDIT: Found the page (I think):
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...1026/canon.htm
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post #3 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 03:31 AM
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Here's a babelfish translation (for what it's worth):

Furthermore 2.5:1 calls also the indicatory possible panorama projector having referred and exhibiting with wide aspect. It is on-board onto the LCOS dataprojector"SX50 " of the same company, "AISYS (Aspectual Illumination System)" the optical engine which is improved the super wide angular zoom lens was loaded, panorama projection was made possible.
Furthermore, you say that it builds in camera function to the substance front, adjusting to of the person who does the presentation, indication change and the sending of and so on it resets and it loads also possible intelligent function.
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post #4 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 06:22 AM
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Why would they make a data projector with that aspect ratio?
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post #5 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 06:28 AM
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Wonder if they're maskiing the 4:3 chips? Funny aspect ratio. The garbled text above seems to refer to the SX50 as the data projector.

Tell us more! :)

Dan

My HT is an oldie but goodie!
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post #6 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 07:52 AM
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The visible darker vertical 'bar' in the imagecenter makes me wonder if this is a two chip (colorwheel?) blended LCOS projector. Let's see, 2x 1400x1050 with some overlapping could very well fit 2.5:1 image width. TzungILin did you check if the pixels where anamorphical stretched?

--Peter
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post #7 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 07:56 AM
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Diarmud,

this is almost certainly for panorama photograph projection. You no longer would need several projectors to do so.

--Peter
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post #8 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 08:19 AM
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if you can direct the input it could be for dual source (i.e. input 1 to left, input 2 to right)

I don't understand the camera part
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post #9 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 08:32 AM
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It looks like two overlaping images. The left portion is darker than the right, and there appears to be an overlap region in the middle.

I'm just glad to see more work/products using that AISYS light engine. Hope it has HDCP :)

Ken
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post #10 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 08:33 AM
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I think the camera part can only mean that there where the presenter is standing in front of
the image a black image is projected. He can now wear a white shirt and you won't see data displayed on it... The other possibility could be that the slide show could be operated through the projector via hand signs...

--Peter
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post #11 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
It looks like two overlaping images. The left portion is darker than the right, and there appears to be an overlap region in the middle.
could be , but I would want to look at it in person, could also be a screen artefact or something else

Quote:
I think the camera part can only mean that there where the presenter is standing in front of
the image a black image is projected. He can now where a white shirt and you won't see data displayed on it... The other possibility could be that the slide show could be operated through the projector via hand signs...
both sound cool but sounds like they could be annoying (i.e. how does it determin the contours of the presenter) plus if he is standing in front too much he is doing something wrong :)

as for the hand signals, a bit bizzar how deliberate of a signal must be done……

PS if it was for the first (presenter that wants to point to screen) what I would do is either use an image or an icon and put the presenter on the side, outside the frame so know the camera gets a hold of his hand position and moves it on the screen (i.e. not remove but add and make movement instead of mouse)
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post #12 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 09:04 AM
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Lets see here
Two new AISYS products
1 Perhaps a roughly 2600x1050 projector
2 A 29cm deep 64" 1920x1080 RPTV using AISYS

I am waiting for item #3
3 1920x1080 front projector using AISYS and DI
Has the odds of 3 happening increased?

Mattias Ohlson
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post #13 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 09:57 AM
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way cool. Canon is finally experimenting with stuff we used to dream about. But they may caommercialize it!

Maybe the camera is used as a light meter to adjust the side by side images so they look as consitent as possible
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post #14 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drpp
Diarmud,

this is almost certainly for panorama photograph projection. You no longer would need several projectors to do so.
Ah! Thanks drpp :)
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post #15 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 10:26 AM
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Tryg
What if Canon uses wm software with the digital camera ....

If this thing is as bold as we think #3 is just a plain vanilla ht projector, go Canon!

Mattias Ohlson
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post #16 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 10:38 AM
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Maybe the camera is used as a light meter to adjust the side by side images so they look as consitent as possible
but why :)

what I mean is if it is two lamps, it makes sense, but one lamp does not. but even if it was a light meter, why a camera aimed at the screen? wouldn't it be better in the light path pre LCOS
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post #17 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 11:22 AM
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It could adjust the gain of each panel to compensate?

I'm just guessing

I think maybe I could tolerate the blend it it gives me a bright 2600x1050 projector
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post #18 of 40 Old 11-02-2005, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drpp
The visible darker vertical 'bar' in the imagecenter makes me wonder if this is a two chip (colorwheel?) blended LCOS projector. Let's see, 2x 1400x1050 with some overlapping could very well fit 2.5:1 image width. TzungILin did you check if the pixels where anamorphical stretched?
Peter,

I did not get to attend the Canon Expo, I just read it in a Japanese website, and connect to the photos on that website, which Ampro4600 has posted the link.

It mentioned about "ultra wide angle" lens, but did not mention what resolution is in it. It could well be a 2x 1400x1050 LCOS inside or it could be just a 1920x1080 LCOS panel with a 16x9 lens in front, using SX50 engine. (since they also demo a 1080p RPTV prototype there, so could be a new 1080p LCOS panel)

Only Canon knows. Anyone who is close to Canon? :)

I would want it to be 1920x1080 + 16x9 lens for a Cinemascope HT projector! Better yet, if the 16x9 lens is electrically controlled and can be moved to the side, we could watch 1080p full resolution on 16x9, then with a tip of switch to move in an expanding 16x9 lens, we have 2.35:1 1080p!! ;)

Bring it on! Canon!!
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post #19 of 40 Old 11-03-2005, 02:49 AM
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TzungILin
You forgot that they should add a DI for ht use. Thus far Canon does not seem to have a high contrast design so a DI is needed more than with a projector with a higher native contrast ratio. Yes, it makes sense if they have a 16:9 1920x1080 panel if they are tranforming to a very wide aspect ratio.

It is good to learn that Canon is moving on with AISYS in more products.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #20 of 40 Old 11-03-2005, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Furthermore, you say that it builds in camera function to the substance front, adjusting to of the person who does the presentation, indication change and the sending of and so on it resets and it loads also possible intelligent function.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpp
I think the camera part can only mean that there where the presenter is standing in front of
the image a black image is projected. He can now wear a white shirt and you won't see data displayed on it...
I would guess this is what the camera is for, as I have seen this exact feature advertised in someone's presentation PJ last year, although I cannot recall whose it was.

BB
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post #21 of 40 Old 11-03-2005, 07:30 PM
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It does appear to be blended, but is it possible that is an artifact from the support behind the middle of the screen? Not my first instinct, just a possibility. Either way, this is pretty cool news. I have thought that with Canon's optical expertise, and revolutionary AISYS light engine, that all they needed was a proper widescreen chipset, and they could do the business.

Philip Springer, owner -- Apex AV Systems, Inc.
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post #22 of 40 Old 11-07-2005, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson
TzungILin
You forgot that they should add a DI for ht use. Thus far Canon does not seem to have a high contrast design so a DI is needed more than with a projector with a higher native contrast ratio. Yes, it makes sense if they have a 16:9 1920x1080 panel if they are tranforming to a very wide aspect ratio.

It is good to learn that Canon is moving on with AISYS in more products.
Yes, Ohlson, you are right, they would need to add DI for HT product. But, it appears that Canon is not interested or is not good at Video or HT world, which is a pitty.

Since Canon also demo a prototype RPTV with a 1920x1080 resolution, I would have thought that this interesting looking projector is using 1920x1080 LCOS panels with 16x9 lens to creat the wide angle look. If that is the case, it is interesting to see what they do next.

The reason that I post this link is to put some pressure on Canon (if they or their dealers read this) to think about using AISYS and turn to a good use in HT arena. If they are willing for OEM, maybe I can get their engine and modify it for HT/video appliations ... :cool:

Oh, and one more thing, if it is 1920x1080 panels, if Canon can design the 16x9 lens to be movable by motors, we have a winner here, 1080p for 16x9 materials, and 1080p for 2.35:1 movies also with the lens moved in. Now, that would be the king of Home Theater!!
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post #23 of 40 Old 11-08-2005, 06:28 AM
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The recent good news is that a lens iris works well with lcos, think Ruby. AISYS takes care of the illumination for plenty of lumens.

What kind of lens option are we talking about?

1 Single lens for only 2.35:1 display with 1920x1080 panels
or
2 Some kind of lens system allowing either 16:9 or 2.35:1

If Canon is not interested to do it themselves they should license AISYS to JVC or Sony.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #24 of 40 Old 11-08-2005, 07:34 AM
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The first (?) very shaky information about resolution comes from a japanese source.

http://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/200510/26/14128.html

quote from babelfish:

"Concept model of LCOS system projector. As for the knitting machine which loads the individual optical system "AISYS" that you pull out the efficiency of LCOS to the maximum, panorama projection of the 2600×1000 dot is a special feature. The zoom lens in super wide angle is loaded. In addition, building in the camera which inspects the movement of プレゼンテーター at the time and the like of the presentation on the substance front center. プレゼンテーター turns the page indicates the next pre- ゼ ン data with る operation, you question and the っ callous becomes possible."

Huh... Probably incorrect, but......

DViDiot

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post #25 of 40 Old 11-08-2005, 07:42 AM
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No doubt, two (or six) blended 1400x1050 LCOS chips ;)

--Peter
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post #26 of 40 Old 11-08-2005, 08:04 AM
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It could very well be so.......

I gather that would explain the 2600 number, but what about the 1000? Would that not be 1050?

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post #27 of 40 Old 11-08-2005, 08:09 AM
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The 1000 instead of 1050 is probably an error. It makes no sense to throw away that vertical resolution. 2600 makes sense in comparison with 2800.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #28 of 40 Old 11-08-2005, 09:40 AM
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It looks like Hasbro has the drop on Canon... not only did they release an under $300 projector with $15 bulbs... but it also appears to be the first native 2.35:1 projector!

http://www.hasbro.com/tigertoys/defa...oduct_id=16983

Specs on the site say 557x234... that is 2.38:1! Funny times... :D
-Matt
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post #29 of 40 Old 11-08-2005, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
It looks like Hasbro has the drop on Canon...
but you can't watch a movie with the whole family, you must be 8 & up to watch :)
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post #30 of 40 Old 11-08-2005, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathustra
The first (?) very shaky information about resolution comes from a japanese source.

http://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/200510/26/14128.html

quote from babelfish:

"Concept model of LCOS system projector. .... panorama projection of the 2600×1000 dot is a special feature. .....

Huh... Probably incorrect, but......
If this is correct, this 2600x1050 dual 1400x1050 panel is even better than 1920x1080 panel with 16x9 lens, you see:

1. For 16x9 source --> just display in the center of 1920x1050 (with 15 pixels chopped top and bottom) for native 1080p display.

2. For 2.35:1 movies --> Take the 2.35:1 active image from source, scale up to 2468x1050, one gets a 2.35:1 movie with vertical 1050p resolution.

One just needs a dual-ratio screen (16x9 and 2.35:1) with power control curtain, then the dream HT machine is born ... :D
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