JVC DLA-RS1 Owner's Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 06:38 AM
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Matt,

You up for letting some fellow Dallasites come see it???
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post #32 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 06:42 AM
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That is good to know on the contrast. Jasons numbers are higher than others I have seen, so I think I could do min throw now instead of max and get the contrast I want and keep all the brightness its got.
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post #33 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 07:13 AM
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Longest throws generally always give you the best picture. Compensate with a higher gain screen if necessary
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post #34 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 07:42 AM
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Rob/Greg
I will be using a Lumagen HDQ and will use BOTH dvi to hdmi AND hdmi to dvi converter cables. (The Lumagen uses dvi inputs and output - no hdmi.) Does Greg's comments apply to the source device regardless of these conversion cables and the HDQ's dvi requirement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Here is the link to Greg's original comments, perhaps with a little more context:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showt...7&page=5&pp=30

Yes, you change the menu of the source, not in the RS1. I believe that the default setting for HDMI output will be YCbCr signals anyway, but this may not be the case for DVI devices if I understand correctly.

I will edit the first post to add some clarification.

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post #35 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 07:58 AM
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Tryg:

Does the picture improve in ways other than more contrast with long throw? How?

Also, I dont know which high gain would work, since the Dalite only works when mounting the PJ low, correct? I am doing a ceiling mount.
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post #36 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 08:00 AM
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Tryg:
Why is longest throw = better picture ?
The math says contrast & lumens are greater at minimum throw.

FYI: I am 22' away from 104" wide Silverstar ..... foaming/frothing at the mouth to pickup my PJ this afternoon !

- Andy
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post #37 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 08:06 AM
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Usually, contrast is greatest at max throw while lumens are highest at min throw. The other advantage to a long throw is reduced hotspotting with gain screens (other than the high power).

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #38 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Usually, contrast is greatest at max throw while lumens are highest at min throw. The other advantage to a long throw is reduced hotspotting with gain screens (other than the high power).

Other advantage is longer throw works better with an anamorphic lens
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post #39 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 08:29 AM
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I know that this is the owners thread but can any one tell me which brand of screen and gain would be best for a room with light control and the lens of the projector would be 16 feet from screen. Do you also know what size screen would fit in that space? Thanks
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post #40 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randymetro View Post

I know that this is the owners thread but can any one tell me which brand of screen and gain would be best for a room with light control and the lens of the projector would be 16 feet from screen. Do you also know what size screen would fit in that space? Thanks

How about Bob Sorel's excellent primer on this? You can view it here. It is generic to all projectors, rooms and screens, but should give a good head start. I'd also posted the same response on another thread yesterday
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post #41 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Lammer View Post

Tryg:
Why is longest throw = better picture ?
The math says contrast & lumens are greater at minimum throw.

FYI: I am 22' away from 104" wide Silverstar ..... foaming/frothing at the mouth to pickup my PJ this afternoon !

- Andy

Andy (You Lucky Dog) I won't have my projector until next week. Shortest throw will have max brightness, while max throw will have max contrast. So, your combo of long throw, with the 104" SS, should be spectacular.

Phil
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post #42 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 09:21 AM
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I've been working this morning so I can pay for the unit when the invoice shows up. I did stay up watching a movie until the wee hours of the morning, and the picture is breath taking. I'll try and find some time to answer individual questions this evening when I have some more time to play with it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Corr View Post

Matt,

You up for letting some fellow Dallasites come see it???

Absolutely, I think we should celebrate DFW getting the one of the first units. PM me if your interested. My room's a mess as I'm in the middle of remodeling, but you can't see the debris with the lights out and the projector on!
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post #43 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 09:54 AM
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Thank you Sankar.
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post #44 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

Longest throws generally always give you the best picture. Compensate with a higher gain screen if necessary


I was always led to believe the zoom should be in the middle range for best image quality.
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post #45 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 10:15 AM
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FreemontRich
I think Tryg is saying that in general a lens that is very wide angles generally performs worse than a lens with more tele character.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #46 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 11:00 AM
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Hahaha same here Andy - all fingers crossed that Mr. Purolator comes today here (Ottawa) too despite the nasty weather. Who'd you get yours from? Mine's from Robert(Mandarax).. you? Najeeb?

Cheers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Lammer View Post

Tryg:
FYI: I am 22' away from 104" wide Silverstar ..... foaming/frothing at the mouth to pickup my PJ this afternoon !

- Andy

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post #47 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLT View Post

3 Questions about the color problems Gregr identified:

1) Are these color matrix issues minor or easy to notice.
Is it something we should consider avoiding units until its corrected?

Greg quoted that JVC is aware of the his color concerns:
2) What is the firmware update process, by user, or at service center only?
3) If it's a hardware issue will JVC offer a quick swap for new units to early buyers?

First, let me provide a quick update on the behavior of the color issue. I found last night that the color matrix mismatching (listed in the first post of this thread) can change from one power up to another. The digital RGB problem shifted from HD to SD signals when I powered up the projector last night. That wasn't very surprising since this is a firmware issue, which is why I continued to check it when I needed to turn the projector off and on again.

More importantly, I was notified this morning that JVC engineers in Japan have identified the cause (firmware bug) of the matrix mismatch problem. They will give me an update on Monday. I suspect the firmware can be updated through the RS-232 port on the rear of the projector, but I won't know that for sure until next week.

In answer to your first question, I consider a color matrix mismatch to be significant. It is primarily visible as green color that is either too light or too dark depending on which matrix mismatch occurs, and it also affects the hue and lightness of other colors to a lessor degree. But I am extremely sensitive and concerned about color accuracy. I'm sure there are many viewers that would not notice the inaccuracy. However, some will, and that is the reason I posted information about the issue prior to publishing my review. So for now, just avoid using analog or digital RGB signals if you want the best color accuracy, and JVC should have this corrected soon.

Unfortunately, problems like this have become almost common on new projectors and video processors, but it is how manufacturer's address these issues that really shows their customer commitment. JVC is taking care of this very professionally.

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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post #48 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 11:34 AM
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Greg,
Any early impressions? (However - I guess it's best not to say until you're done w/ your review)
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post #49 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 11:39 AM
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Thanks for the update Greg - I so hope that the firmware will be updatable by end users. With everything under the sun user updatable these days ( I have more network drops in my movie room than my office now!!).

I gather your review will be in issue 119 ? I'm hoping to have my RS1 today or Monday, but I'm still interesting in reading your thoughts.

Cheers.
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post #50 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

First, let me provide a quick update on the behavior of the color issue. I found last night that the color matrix mismatching (listed in the first post of this thread) can change from one power up to another. The digital RGB problem shifted from HD to SD signals when I powered up the projector last night. That wasn't very surprising since this is a firmware issue, which is why I continued to check it when I needed to turn the projector off and on again.

More importantly, I was notified this morning that JVC engineers in Japan have identified the cause (firmware bug) of the matrix mismatch problem. They will give me an update on Monday. I suspect the firmware can be updated through the RS-232 port on the rear of the projector, but I won't know that for sure until next week.

In answer to your first question, I consider a color matrix mismatch to be significant. It is primarily visible as green color that is either too light or too dark depending on which matrix mismatch occurs, and it also affects the hue and lightness of other colors to a lessor degree. But I am extremely sensitive and concerned about color accuracy. I'm sure there are many viewers that would not notice the inaccuracy. However, some will, and that is the reason I posted information about the issue prior to publishing my review. So for now, just avoid using analog or digital RGB signals if you want the best color accuracy, and JVC should have this corrected soon.

Unfortunately, problems like this have become almost common on new projectors and video processors, but it is how manufacturer's address these issues that really shows their customer commitment. JVC is taking care of this very professionally.


Thanks for the update Greg Please let us know when you hear more about this next week.
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post #51 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishysan View Post

I gather your review will be in issue 119 ? I'm hoping to have my RS1 today or Monday, but I'm still interesting in reading your thoughts.

It will be in Issue #120. (Issue #119 mails out in about 2 weeks. WSR has the shortest lead time in the industry but it isn't that good. ) However, I believe we will have a special event and publish the review on the WSR subscriber website very shortly after I've finished writing it, and I will be happy to spend a day here on the forum answering questions in real time if anyone still has any left by then.

It's hard not to talk about this projector. Unfortunately, I felt it was important to mention a couple of issues so early users wouldn't be confused by what they might see. But I wouldn't want anyone to get a wrong idea about this projector, so I'll probably blurt out a few of my impressions early next week.

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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post #52 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

It's hard not to talk about this projector.

Is that good or bad ?

Dazzer
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post #53 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

So for now, just avoid using analog or digital RGB signals if you want the best color accuracy, and JVC should have this corrected soon.

Unfortunately, problems like this have become almost common on new projectors and video processors, but it is how manufacturer's address these issues that really shows their customer commitment. JVC is taking care of this very professionally.

Thanks so much for the reply.

I hope someone from JVC could jump in and let us know if firmware can be updated by users. Personally, I'm wondering if I'd rather just wait for the issue to be corrected than take a unit with the bug and then have to ship it back and forth for an update. Will JVC cover shipping and insurance, will they swap units or just update the firmware? Turn around time?

In the mean time maybe someone can be clear what devices use analog or digital RGB signals that would manifest this error.

HTPC via DVI -> HDMI ?
PS3 via HDMI -> HDMI ?
Dish / ExpressVu HD PVR via HDMI -> HDMI ?
Dish / ExpressVu HD PVR via component -> component ?
Xbox 360 via component -> component ?


Test Your Display,
Tips for Large Monitor Use
: 720p, 1080p Test Patterns, Tips Just Click Here
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post #54 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 12:06 PM
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I think another advantage is the lens itself. There is more chance of there being CA on the outer edges of the lens (when using short throw), than in the middle of the lens (when using long throw).

PSN: HyDef
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post #55 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Brann View Post

I guess the first thing i should admit, is that I'm not a photographer. Here are a couple of pictures I quickly took of some HD content (HD Discovery channel and HD Jay Leno both via Verizon Fios). The last is a picture from LOTRs in standard definition. I've not done any tweaking of the projector. This is about as "out of the box" as it gets.

Matt

Wow! Is it really that soft? The LotR shot, in particular, looks very soft.

$300 HDMI cables? P.T. Barnum would have been proud.
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post #56 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 12:20 PM
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Greg thanks for the update and good to see JVC is rectifying that issue- Is JVC also addressing the overscan problems-

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...HD1/Bild62.jpg
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...HD1/Bild63.jpg
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post #57 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 12:32 PM
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The format of DVI-D is RGB, therefore most all DVI outputs will be digital RGB.

gregr,
"I found last night that the color matrix mismatching (listed in the first post of this thread) can change from one power up to another. The digital RGB problem shifted from HD to SD signals when I powered up the projector last night." Are you saying that the internal color decoder is shifting between 601/709 in HD resolution input settings with digital RGB input? If so, does this mean that the projector is converting RGB to YCbCr processing it and converting back to RGB for display?

Answered in other thread
gregr - "The projector's internal processing uses YCbCr signals (as do virtually all projectors and video processors). Therefore, the projector must convert incoming RGB signals to YCbCr, process them in YCbCr, and then convert them back to RGB to drive the LCoS panels. It is the RGB-to-YCbCr and YCbCr-to-RGB conversions that provide the opportunity to use mixed (Rec 601 and Rec 709) conversion matrices.

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CalMAN, CS1000, K10-A, Spyder5, Six-G, QD780
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post #58 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post


It's hard not to talk about this projector. Unfortunately, I felt it was important to mention a couple of issues so early users wouldn't be confused by what they might see. But I wouldn't want anyone to get a wrong idea about this projector, so I'll probably blurt out a few of my impressions early next week.

If you are going to wait until next week, are you really "blurting" out anything?
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post #59 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 12:48 PM
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Just found out my RS1 will not arrive till the end of March with the shipment coming by boat

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CalMAN, CS1000, K10-A, Spyder5, Six-G, QD780
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post #60 of 9129 Old 03-02-2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

Is that good or bad ?

Dazzer

Bad for me. I'd like to skip writing the review and just start talking about the projector here on the forum. But I don't have that option.

Greg Rogers
Video Engineer/Product Designer

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