JVC DLA-RS1 Owner's Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 11:22 AM
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Frank, what CC filter are you getting (type and size) and what measurement are you basing the need for the filter on?

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post #122 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximori View Post

Some VPs have LUT access although they will not fix the shading errors.

I don't understand this. What would a LUT in an external VP allow you to do?
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post #123 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 11:36 AM
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Rob,

I'd like to make a suggestion that you change the title of this thread to include the HD1... maybe something like " JVC RS1 / HD1 Owner's Thread"... and BTW, it's nice to see you dropped the "Official" from the title!

There are already more HD1's in the consumers hands (overseas) and once the HD1 goes main stream through the B&M stores in the US, I suspect those numbers with continue to increase.
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post #124 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 11:37 AM
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BTW, I asked earlier, but I didn't see the answer posted yet...

Is there any loss in light output or PQ for using the lens shifting in either (or both) directions?
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post #125 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 11:53 AM
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What is a CC filter and why would that improve the contrast?
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post #126 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet1 View Post

Rob,

I'd like to make a suggestion that you change the title of this thread to include the HD1... maybe something like " JVC RS1 / HD1 Owner's Thread"... and BTW, it's nice to see you dropped the "Official" from the title!

There are already more HD1's in the consumers hands (overseas) and once the HD1 goes main stream through the B&M stores in the US, I suspect those numbers with continue to increase.

I have no problem whatsoever with HD1 owners posting in this thread. In fact, I certainly hope that they will do so (and a few have)!

Oh, and I never had the word "official" in this thread title, or the one that was closed.....because I agree with your previous comment in that regard (which I will not repeat here).
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post #127 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I don't understand this. What would a LUT in an external VP allow you to do?

Well I read somewhere that some VPs, such as the Lumagen, allow LUT access for professional calibration to fix the shading/uniformity issues. I forgot which thread that is, though... Also, isn't it with a VP, that you can further calibrate the color balance and gamma tracking across the board for better grayscale since CMS does not exist in the RS-1?

Btw, if this will be the official thread for reviews can we include a poll ranking this unit - which only RS-1 owners can participate in?
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post #128 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

I normally don't test 50 Hz formats. Ekkehart does an excellent job covering that, and I simply don't have time to take 50 Hz measurements and do viewing evaluations at 50 Hz.

But since you've asked specifically about overscan, which is easy for me to test ... I'm measuring about 2.5% (about +/- 0.25%) overscan at each edge in 480i,480p,576i,576p using digital (HDMI input) signals. So that is about 18 pixels on the sides for all formats, and about 14 pixels top and bottom for 576i/p, and about 12 pixels top and bottom for 480i/p.

I can't explain why these numbers differ from Ekkehart's, but perhaps there is a difference in the projector's firmware. He received an HD-1 much earlier than I received an RS-1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

576i we tested over analog YCbCr, as the HDMI 576i is not really usable right now due these scaling artefacts. Analog, we had this huge overscan.

Regards,
Ekkehart

Hi Ekkehart. Since you took overscan measurements using analog YPbPr, I went back and checked the 576i/576p analog YPbPr overscan on the RS-1.

The overscan at the sides with 576i was about 3.75%, which is about 27 pixels. That is high, but apparently not as high as the HD-1 you checked. The overscan at the sides with 576p was about 2.5%, which is about 18 pixels.

Greg Rogers
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post #129 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

Hi Ekkehart. Since you took overscan measurements using analog YPbPr, I went back and checked the 576i/576p analog YPbPr overscan on the RS-1.

The overscan at the sides with 576i was about 3.75%, which is about 27 pixels. That is high, but apparently not as high as the HD-1 you checked. The overscan at the sides with 576p was about 2.5%, which is about 18 pixels.



Thanks.. i will check with some other machines next week...

Regards,
Ekkehart
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post #130 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximori View Post

Well I read somewhere that some VPs, such as the Lumagen, allow LUT access for professional calibration to fix the shading/uniformity issues. I forgot which thread that is, though... Also, isn't it with a VP, that you can further calibrate the color balance and gamma tracking across the board for better grayscale since CMS does not exist in the RS-1?

Btw, if this will be the official thread for reviews can we include a poll ranking this unit - which only RS-1 owners can participate in?

No access to the LUTs, but the Lumagen does have the 10 step grayscale, gamma correction and color decoding and can fix overscan issues.

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post #131 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 03:50 PM
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Hi everyone,
I have a built a new home & made a 26x14' theater with 8.5' ceiling in our basement, so there's no ambient light issues. My questions are what screen size is too large & can an anamorphic lens be used?
Also, using JVC's lens calculator has confused me. I get a red maximum horizontal offset % error when the top of the screen is centered on the projector lens. My math says that would be 50% of the screen height where 80% is the maximum. What am I doing wrong?

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post #132 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

I can't explain why these numbers differ from Ekkehart's, but perhaps there is a difference in the projector's firmware. He received an HD-1 much earlier than I received an RS-1.

perhaps we should start tracking firmware versions (especially wrt any problems we are finding) so we can eliminate that variable? I searched the manual for a command sequence to show the version but no joy ... nonetheless it seems likely that it's present somewhere on one of the menu screens. I'd have been happy to poke around till I found it if my preorder hadn't missed the cutoff

paul
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post #133 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 08:02 PM
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DERG,

Do you have the JVC calculator with the RS-1 included? I only see "RS-1 version coming soon" on the JVC Digital website. If not, that could be the reason as the RS-1 has a lot more flexibility than previous models.

As for you other questions, Bob Sorel posted a very nice summary about choosing a screen:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=753497

Jay

Quote:
Originally Posted by DERG View Post

Hi everyone,
I have a built a new home & made a 26x14' theater with 8.5' ceiling in our basement, so there's no ambient light issues. My questions are what screen size is too large & can an anamorphic lens be used?
Also, using JVC's lens calculator has confused me. I get a red maximum horizontal offset % error when the top of the screen is centered on the projector lens. My math says that would be 50% of the screen height where 80% is the maximum. What am I doing wrong?

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post #134 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 08:17 PM
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Tom, William, or anyone who has the RS-1 and uses a Harmony (or other) remote. Does the RS-1 use the same on and off IR codes as the HD10K? If so how do you program for them? Please see this thread or this one.
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post #135 of 9126 Old 03-04-2007, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DERG View Post

Hi everyone,
I have a built a new home & made a 26x14' theater with 8.5' ceiling in our basement, so there's no ambient light issues. My questions are what screen size is too large & can an anamorphic lens be used?
Also, using JVC's lens calculator has confused me. I get a red maximum horizontal offset % error when the top of the screen is centered on the projector lens. My math says that would be 50% of the screen height where 80% is the maximum. What am I doing wrong?

I'll bet you are using the calculator which has not yet been updated (just as jsnable suggested). This calculator defaults to a proj with has a 50% offset - so your math was correct, its just that the calculator is not allowing for the 80% offset found with the DLA-RS1.

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post #136 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randymetro View Post

What is a CC filter and why would that improve the contrast?

Color Compensating filter.

UHP lamp has lower red output.

In normal mode projector is at D6500 in dynamic mode colortemp is higher.
Green and blue dominate but you get a brighter picture. Red is maxed out but green and blue have some headroom left.

With a red cc filter you can use the projector at it's maximum setting for red output. Green and blue are lowered by the red filter and the loss in green and blue can be compensated by adding some gain. Max lumens output will be a little less or equal depending on the headroom left in the red when the projector is at normal colortemp setting.

Contrast will be improved because the filter is reducing the light in dark/black scenes.
During 'total black' scenes stray light is reduced.

The light reduction in bright scenes is minimized by maximizing the gain settings while the light loss in dark scenes leads to deeper blacks. -> Better contrast.

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #137 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Frank, what CC filter are you getting (type and size) and what measurement are you basing the need for the filter on?


C4H optimizing was included in the purchase.

I know it's a glass filter but size and type I don't know yet. The fitting wasn't ready yet so I get it posted some time later (with an additional lamp also included in the deal).

Cine4home has a great explanation (in german) and from their websit I gather they use colorfacts and Gretag McBeth Spektroradiometer "Eye One".

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #138 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 07:01 AM
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Quote:


Color Correction filter.

CC is actually color compensating filter. Color correction filters are varying degrees of either blue or orange and correct/convert daylight to tungsten or vice versa. For example, a tungsten balanced film requires an 85 color correcton filter (orange-ish) to convert the light of day (5600K) to be correct on the 3200K tungsten film. Color compensating filters are used to shift color off what would be the black body curve on the CIE chart. Often these are of a magenta or green hue.

Not sure what this red filter is without actual nomenclature/name for it. They usually have the prefix "CC."
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post #139 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

CC is actually color compensating filter. Color correction filters are varying degrees of either blue or orange and correct/convert daylight to tungsten or vice versa. For example, a tungsten balanced film requires an 85 color correcton filter (orange-ish) to convert the light of day (5600K) to be correct on the 3200K tungsten film. Color compensating filters are used to shift color off what would be the black body curve on the CIE chart. Often these are of a magenta or green hue.

Not sure what this red filter is without actual nomenclature/name for it. They usually have the prefix "CC."

Corrected

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #140 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 08:22 AM
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Sounds good Frank but I thought cine4home posted here that unlike the Pearl the RS1 does not have the headroom and therefore not much benefit (if at all) would come from the CC filter approach using a CC. Perhaps I misunderstood? Maybe he was saying you couldn't improve contrast but could improve black level without reducing lumens (which I still don't get how that is even possible).
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post #141 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Sounds good Frank but I thought cine4home posted here that unlike the Pearl the RS1 does not have the headroom and therefore not much benefit (if at all) would come from the CC filter approach using a CC. Perhaps I misunderstood? Maybe he was saying you couldn't improve contrast but could improve black level without reducing lumens (which I still don't get how that is even possible).


In normal mode the projector is at D6500. I suspect the red isn't maxed out in this setting to leave some headroom for the contrast/offset controls.

In the dynamic mode with the higher color temp red could be on the limit.

So I assume there is a little headroom to play with. However I expect not much because the projector already does pre filtering inside.

If the output is 600 lumens in normal mode and after CC filtering and boosting red gain to max then output can be still 600 lumens (instead of the 670 lumens in dynamic mode) In comparison to the normal mode there is little or no light loss. However the black levels are improved because there is also light loss from the filter in dark scenes. Overall the dynamic range will improve. How much wil depend on the available headroom.

I'm shure Ekkehart can do a follow up with actual measurements.

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #142 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post

In normal mode the projector is at D6500. I suspect the red isn't maxed out in this setting to leave some headroom for the contrast/offset controls.

In the dynamic mode with the higher color temp red could be on the limit.

So I assume there is a little headroom to play with. However I expect not much because the projector already does pre filtering inside.

If the output is 600 lumens in normal mode and after CC filtering and boosting red gain to max then output can be still 600 lumens (instead of the 670 lumens in dynamic mode) In comparison to the normal mode there is little or no light loss. However the black levels are improved because there is also light loss from the filter in dark scenes. Overall the dynamic range will improve. How much wil depend on the available headroom.

I'm shure Ekkehart can do a follow up with actual measurements.

I was under the impression that is is the red spectrum that is lacking magnitude and the light path design is for the UHP lamp. Without measuring, I would think any filter put in front of the bulb would change the x,y coordinates of all the primaries. I would think a red filter in the light path for red might help, but I would rather correct the x,y coordinates of the primaries and sacrifice a little light output.

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post #143 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 11:34 AM
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Then the other concerns that comes into play is that Mayer posted that adding the CC filter can have a significant impact on ANSI CR.
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post #144 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 11:41 AM
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Rob or other -
With these arriving now...

Just thinking it might be a good idea if someone could post suggested "out of the box" quick settings to get started?

The early reports suggested D65 pretty much out of the box,
but now I'm not sure, if thats the case or just how to quickly get close to that?

What's the best setup to get started with a HDTV box or DVD player?

So we don't jump the gun and make rash judgements


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post #145 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 11:45 AM
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Wow, this thing is bloody gorgeous out of the box in that piano gloss black finish!! Much more refined finish than the pre-pro.

JVC Pro, please consider putting some packing between the sides of the box and the sides of the projectors. There is nothing but air between them, and a hole designed as a handle on each side is already a compromise to the integrity of the cardboard box in that area.
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post #146 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 02:30 PM
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I second the opinion that is is one sweet looking PJ. THe glossy finish is awesome and makes the thing look higher priced than it is.

I am about to go set mine up.
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post #147 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Wow, this thing is bloody gorgeous out of the box in that piano gloss black finish!! Much more refined finish than the pre-pro.

JVC Pro, please consider putting some packing between the sides of the box and the sides of the projectors. There is nothing but air between them, and a hole designed as a handle on each side is already a compromise to the integrity of the cardboard box in that area.

They are not double boxed?
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post #148 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 02:49 PM
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I'm really more interested in the projector spending as less time during ground transport as possible. IF it's Thursday, it is OK by me. UPS will still send a special truck today if they want to ship esp. if they tell them what happened with Fed-ex. UPS is 4 times the size of Fed-ex and has the manpower to make a pick-up at short notice. The reason that Fed-ex can not pick them up is that they have separate operations for everything. UPS ground and air are handled by the same location. Only frieght is not. One call right now and a special truck would be sent. Fed-ex is cheaper, this is why.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #149 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 02:54 PM
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I've had far fewer problems in the past with ups compared to fedex...
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post #150 of 9126 Old 03-05-2007, 02:57 PM
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Just got the first three RS-1's delivered! Heading home to set up for a quick comparison with the Ruby. Cannot do much until I lose some of this daylight, but I expect to start seriously comparing the two this evening.

Jim
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