Sony VPL-VW60 Tweakers Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

The Pioneer lets you change resolution on the fly (from the remote) without having to go into a set up menu. To me that alone is huge. Plus it has its gallery feature. And also it has some nice picture adjustments.The picture is also sharper. And it does play the Spiderman's without issue!

If you have the 905 Onkyo receiver and you need the new firmware send me a PM with your email address!

Thank you for the offer Joe, but I have the DTC-9.8 and I direct access to firmware as I work for an Integra dealer.

Now why would one want to change resolutions on the fly? Do you also use the player for SD-DVD? Also when you say the picture is sharper, do you mean for HD disc's? I would think if I am grabing the 1080/24P direct off the disc and pumping it to through the DTC-9.8 is "through" mode direct to the VW60 via HDMI it would not make a bit of difference what player model I was using? Is this wrong?

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post #62 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbas View Post

Okay, that is a pretty sweet screen. What is that, 133" diagonal?

Thank Fabbas.

No, it is not a 133" diagonal as that would mean I was compensating for some other short comings.... it is only 130" diagonal....

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post #63 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 07:45 AM
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Under Expert Settings, what is everyone setting the NR and DDE too?

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post #64 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 07:50 AM
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Oh no, 1080p/24 is perfect for Blu ray and HD DVD. I like being able to send 480i over HDMI(for SD dvds) to my crystalio II VP so it can do the upconversion to 1080p for me. And being able to change the resolution on the fly is very conveinant. And not to mention the 95FD is much more quieter than the 1400.

I have an amazing 995ES with the new 3.1 firmware for sale. Send me a PM...
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post #65 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A/Vspec View Post

Under Expert Settings, what is everyone setting the NR and DDE too?

I only get those options when running some resolutions other than 1080p/24. When I tried running 480i out of my Denon 2930 and let the projector do the entire standard def upconversion. Big mistake. Look at the Moving Zone Palette (I think it's' called) test pattern on AVIA. 1080p from the DVD player has much better motion resolution than sending 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i. I'm pretty sure I experimented with all of them and found 1080p to be best.
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post #66 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 07:57 AM
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Joe, have you tried doing a head to head with your Pioneer and PS3 for video quality?
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post #67 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 08:07 AM
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Even if I could get them I would probably leave them off unless I was sending in 480i and did not have a scaler. I have not directly compared the PS3 but my neighbor has one and claims the Pioneer is slightly better. Mainly sharpness. Anyway, the load time is still waaaaay in the PS3's favor but I do not use videogame machines to watch movies.

I have an amazing 995ES with the new 3.1 firmware for sale. Send me a PM...
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post #68 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Even if I could get them I would probably leave them off unless I was sending in 480i and did not have a scaler. I have not directly compared the PS3 but my neighbor has one and claims the Pioneer is slightly better. Mainly sharpness. Anyway, the load time is still waaaaay in the PS3's favor but I do not use videogame machines to watch movies.

Well, typically I use my recliner to watch movies. But I'd use a can of Pam if it gave me a great picture and sound You'd probably be surprised how much of the guts of a standard player and a PS3 have in common, and video games have always been on the cutting edge of technology--they certainly push computer technology forward a lot faster than MS Office does ;-) I don't own a PS3, or any games actually, but just want something I'm not going to have to flash every week.
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post #69 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 08:18 AM
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Do you know what it is in particular about the design of the PS3 that keeps it from being susceptible to all the flaky playback issues?
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post #70 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 08:31 AM
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Well for one I also want to be able to pass HBR audio to my onkyo 905 receiver. As far as I know the PS3 cannot and will not allow this. That is huge for me.

I have an amazing 995ES with the new 3.1 firmware for sale. Send me a PM...
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post #71 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 08:42 AM
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Well, if it can't bitstream high resolution audio to my receiver for decoding that would be a show stopper.
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post #72 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 08:58 AM
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It definitely is then. Sorry.

I have an amazing 995ES with the new 3.1 firmware for sale. Send me a PM...
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post #73 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 09:27 AM
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It says on the toshiba website that the A35 passes core only on DTS-HD. Doesn't that defeat the point? That means it's only sending DTS, right? And it doesn't say (I don't think) that is bitstreams Master Audio via HDMI, unless if that's what they mean by HBR audio.
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post #74 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 09:53 AM
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It does it all! The A35 is the player to get now for HD DVD...

I have an amazing 995ES with the new 3.1 firmware for sale. Send me a PM...
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post #75 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 09:57 AM
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But it doesn't do it all...it only passes dts-hd core, not the whole signal.
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post #76 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 10:23 AM
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So far testing is going slooooowww.

But I have found if you want the best Gamma to use Gamma-3 as it is closest to 2.2 all the rest are way low across the board. Also “low” lamp mode and Black Level Adj “Off” is best for correct Gamma.

The gamma adjustments in the service manual are insane by the way, so unless you know what you are doing I would not adjust them as there are 11 levels and 288 positions to adjust Red Green and Blue so unless you have a full day to devote to tweaking every area of the screen I would just leave that be…. That said it is cool that Sony gives you the ability to adjust it.

As soon as I tweak the White Balance and Color Gamut…. Again… I will take another contrast test.

Oh and I am using all the latest settings Omar posted except I am using Gamma-3 for my testing.

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post #77 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarF View Post

Hey Mark, which set of settings that I posted? There were several trials.

These are the ones I currently prefer, did you try them?

Lamp: Low
Auto Iris: Manual @37%
Color Space: Normal
Contrast: 99
Brightness: 49
Color: 51
Hue: 50
Color Temp: Middle
Sharpness: 0
Black Level Adjust: Off
Gamma Correction: Gamma Off
RCP: Off

Omar

Omar - are you making any changes to the gain and bias in the customer color temp menu?
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post #78 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 11:35 AM
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Ok I used:
Lamp: Low
Auto Iris: Manual @37%
Color Space: Normal
Contrast: 99
Brightness: 51
Color: 51
Hue: 50
Color Temp: Middle
Sharpness: 0
Black Level Adjust: Off
Gamma Correction: Gamma 3
RCP: Off

I adjusted Gain and Bias to:

GAIN:
R:122
G:75
B:81

BIAS:
R:111
G:128
B:131

Panel Drivers:

R=90
G=82
B=54

This gave me very good grayscale results. White Balance and Color Gamut were all but dead on after adjustments.

Contrast results were:

On/Off: 3250:1
ANSI: 130:1

Big change using Manual IRIS.

-Mark AKA A/Vspec
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post #79 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbas View Post

Omar - are you making any changes to the gain and bias in the customer color temp menu?

Nope!
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post #80 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A/Vspec View Post

Ok I used:
Lamp: Low
Auto Iris: Manual @37%
Color Space: Normal
Contrast: 99
Brightness: 51
Color: 51
Hue: 50
Color Temp: Middle
Sharpness: 0
Black Level Adjust: Off
Gamma Correction: Gamma 3
RCP: Off

I adjusted Gain and Bias to:

GAIN:
R:122
G:75
B:81

BIAS:
R:111
G:128
B:131

Panel Drivers:

R=90
G=82
B=54

This gave me very good grayscale results. White Balance and Color Gamut were all but dead on after adjustments.

Contrast results were:

On/Off: 3250:1
ANSI: 130:1

Big change using Manual IRIS.

How would I adjust the Panel Drivers? I assume those Gain and Bias adjustments were done in the Color Temp menu (not in the service menu)?

Omar
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post #81 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarF View Post

How would I adjust the Panel Drivers? I assume those Gain and Bias adjustments were done in the Color Temp menu (not in the service menu)?

Omar

all my adjustments are in the service menu.

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post #82 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A/Vspec View Post

all my adjustments are in the service menu.

How do I get into the service menu?

Thanks.
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post #83 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Oh no, 1080p/24 is perfect for Blu ray and HD DVD. I like being able to send 480i over HDMI(for SD dvds) to my crystalio II VP so it can do the upconversion to 1080p for me. And being able to change the resolution on the fly is very conveinant. And not to mention the 95FD is much more quieter than the 1400.

Why do you send 480i and not 480p to the vp? I would think that you would want to send the native resolution of the disc to the vp and let it do all of the processing and DVD's are native 480p.
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post #84 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A/Vspec View Post

About a foot away from the screen. It was with a split screen 50/50 from a Sencor VP401 and I used a Sencor OCT1000 sensor. The software automaticly pics the pattern to send which is the 50/50 (top and bottom) image.

ANSI CR is the average of the white squares divided the average of the black squares of a 4x4 (16) checkerboard. MANSI, IIRC is the average of the center 4 squares. Is your 147:1 measuring a split screen 50% white x 50% black?
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post #85 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 06:25 PM
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When you have a very high end scaler you want to send in an interlaced resolution so it can do the deinterlacing.

I have an amazing 995ES with the new 3.1 firmware for sale. Send me a PM...
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post #86 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3chi3 View Post

How do I get into the service menu?

Thanks.


It is the same as the VW50.

And since it was already posted in that thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showt...0+Service+menu

I guess I will duplicate that here:

PLEASE DON"T GO INTO THE SERVICE MENU UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING - IF YOU PLAY WITH OTHER THINGS IN THE SERVICE MENU YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO PUT THE SETTINGS BACK PROPERLY! GO INTO THE MENU AT YOUR OWN RISK!


Enter, Enter, Left, Enter will allow you to access the service menu.

Enjoy!

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post #87 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 06:28 PM
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So you are saying that the new HD and BR players won't take a native 480p directly from the DVD? I guess I thought the new players would have the ability to do this.

I have a VP50 hooked up to my Escient DVD system 480i to the VP for the same reason you are describing, but only because the 777ES does the deinterlacing in the video processing chip and doesn't take the 480p from the disc directly.
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post #88 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadly25 View Post

So you are saying that the new HD and BR players won't take a native 480p directly from the DVD? I guess I thought the new players would have the ability to do this.

IIMU that DVD is native 480i, and BR is native 1080p24
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post #89 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

ANSI CR is the average of the white squares divided the average of the black squares of a 4x4 (16) checkerboard. MANSI, IIRC is the average of the center 4 squares. Is your 147:1 measuring a split screen 50% white x 50% black?

The ColorPro 6000 does it a little different then that but both methods try to do the same thing which is to measure the amount of light produced by a display device in the peak white parts of a scene and compares it to the amount of light produced in the black parts of the scene.

The VP401 pattern generator uses a specific pattern called HiLowTrk.

The VP401 does also have the checker pattern so if I get the time tomorrow I can also check it with that pattern.

Man I sure wish I could just watch a movie on this system not enough time in a weekend!!!! I have more bulb hours on my new VW60 from testing/calibration then movie watching!!! The madness of it all!!!

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post #90 of 1624 Old 11-03-2007, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

IIMU that DVD is native 480i, and BR is native 1080p24

I never could get an exact answer to the age old question about DVD and how the 480 is stored on disc. I have read things about a flag on the disc that can be set for it to output pure 480P but I can not find that through google now. But I did do a search and still get two answers from two sites:

From CNET: http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5107912-1.html

480p - 480 progressive; form of standard-definition digital television (SDTV) comparable to VGA computer displays but not considered high-definition television (HDTV), though 480p is discernibly cleaner and slightly sharper than analog television. The native resolution of DVD is 480p, but that resolution can be seen only if a DVD player outputs a progressive-scan signal and the DTV has progressive-scan or component-video inputs; it is also known as EDTV.

But then here: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=301032

The native format of DVD is 480i, the operational mode of traditional
televisions. 480i is also the native format of traditional video
cameras. Most DVDs, however, are sourced from film, not video. Film is
natively 24 frames per second, and not interlaced. When a film is made
into a DVD, It is converted to 480i through a technique called "3:2
pulldown":
http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html

On a "normal" TV, this is how the DVD would be displayed -- as a 480i
conversion of a 24fps source. To our eyes, this looks perfectly
acceptable.

It is not, however, an accurate representation of the film.
Fortunately, it is not difficult to reconstruct the original film
frames via a process known, not surprisingly, as "reverse 3:2
pulldown". This is why "progressive scan" is a buzzword around DVDs --
applying reverse 3:2 pulldown to a film-sourced DVD yields a
progressive image. (Ideally, it would be displayed at 24 frames per
second, or a multiple such as 48 or 72 frames per second.)

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