RS2/ PRO-FPJ1 Owners: Setup Discussion Thread - Page 55 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1621 of 4341 Old 03-06-2009, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acturbo View Post

See thats where Im confused. It was just as noticeable at 77" diag as it was at 121". (Sitting about 15' away)

I don't hate film grain, I think a movie looks more natural with it as well, but what I don't like is excessive amounts.

Oh well, Ill have to tinker some more tomorrow, hopefully my buddy can give me some good input.

Off to bed now. Thanks for your help Shamus

No problem. Hopefully grain is the problem and you will just get used to it. Another possibility is your DIY screen may be exaggerating it. The brighter, sharper image you get, the more grain your gonna see.

It should also be noted that some have said the JVC's have been nosier than other PJ's. Whether, some have a bad unit or are just more sensitive to it is unknown. Your buddy should help clear this up tomorrow. Let us know. Im gonna laugh at you if it really was just grain.
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post #1622 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 12:09 AM
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I don't think it is you. I know there were some complaints about noise on the RS-1, but what you are describing seems a lot worse. Since you see this with both projectors, I think/hope the cable upgrade test will be the answer. I guess it could be possible that you also have a very noisy electrical line or ground loop or something like that, but someone who knows more about those sorts of things might be able to better diagnose such problems. But again, hopefully you will find your answer tomorrow.
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post #1623 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 12:12 AM
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If you have 300, watch it. If you see the same thing, it is probably grain. Personally, I do not like film grain. I can see the point of adding it for artistic purposes, but only on limited flashback or memory type scenes to create an impression of the past.
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post #1624 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chexi1 View Post

If you have 300, watch it. If you see the same thing, it is probably grain. Personally, I do not like film grain. I can see the point of adding it for artistic purposes, but only on limited flashback or memory type scenes to create an impression of the past.

Aloha Chexi,

When is your PJ suppose to show up? Can't wait for your comparison!

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post #1625 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post

Hmmm...that's not typically what folks refer to as "sparklies" (at least not in my neighborhood)
Sparklies are shown up in light areas (light blue sky, clouds, etc.), in bright areas- they are just that- bright, like pearlesence, or what you see sometimes in your yard with a snowbank with the sun on it. Descriptions vary, but is usually described not as color, but colorless shiny pins of light.
Oh, as per my description, NOT consistent and NOT in all scenes to answer the previous question. "Sparklies" are often present on rear projection screens, dlp's, and bright screens such as the Vutec Silverstar screen (I readily notice them on that screen).

I had a 35 foot HDMI bettercable which was showing these "sparklies" just how I described. When I changed the cable they were completely gone! I also forgot to add that I would see white dots on people's faces to. It wasn't every second. They would show up every other scene depending what it was I guess. That used to drive me nuts!

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post #1626 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chexi1 View Post

I don't think it is you. I know there were some complaints about noise on the RS-1, but what you are describing seems a lot worse. Since you see this with both projectors, I think/hope the cable upgrade test will be the answer. I guess it could be possible that you also have a very noisy electrical line or ground loop or something like that, but someone who knows more about those sorts of things might be able to better diagnose such problems. But again, hopefully you will find your answer tomorrow.

I am hoping it is the cables as well. Both of my PJ's support HDMI 1.3, and I never bothered to verify my cables were 1.3, mostly because I didnt think it would make a big difference with my 720P PJ. Not very smart I guess lol. As I said before also, when I demoed the PJ in the store it did not look the same, thats why Im thinking its not just me being crazy.
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post #1627 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acturbo View Post

I am hoping it is the cables as well. Both of my PJ's support HDMI 1.3, and I never bothered to verify my cables were 1.3, mostly because I didnt think it would make a big difference with my 720P PJ. Not very smart I guess lol. As I said before also, when I demoed the PJ in the store it did not look the same, thats why Im thinking its not just me being crazy.

The RS may not be as forgiving with source compression artifacts video noise as other projectors. If this is indeed what you are seeing grab yourself a 2x ND " neutral density " filter. Id grab a 62mm or larger and place it in front of the projectors primary lens. Not only will it give you a slight improvement with black level but as a side effect you will notice less video noise. You should be able to find these at any photography shop for around $50.






.
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post #1628 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acturbo View Post

I am hoping it is the cables as well. Both of my PJ's support HDMI 1.3, and I never bothered to verify my cables were 1.3, mostly because I didnt think it would make a big difference with my 720P PJ. Not very smart I guess lol. As I said before also, when I demoed the PJ in the store it did not look the same, thats why Im thinking its not just me being crazy.


I would be extremely surprised if your problem is cable related.
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post #1629 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I would be extremely surprised if your problem is cable related.

I agree. I am sure he is seeing video noise. Another option to compliment the ND filter I suggested is to use a higher Gamma number. Try 2.4
While it may be to dark on some material you can go in and bump the 5 IRE to bring back a little more shadow detail.
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post #1630 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 08:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I had a 35 foot HDMI bettercable which was showing these "sparklies" just how I described. When I changed the cable they were completely gone! I also forgot to add that I would see white dots on people's faces to. It wasn't every second. They would show up every other scene depending what it was I guess. That used to drive me nuts!

Joe,
I am a bit disappointed in you. I would have expected you to have this bad boy all calibrated by now! Quit posting here and get it all dialed in! Oh, and then please email me your settings!
Best,
Chris
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post #1631 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acturbo View Post

I am hoping it is the cables as well. Both of my PJ's support HDMI 1.3, and I never bothered to verify my cables were 1.3, mostly because I didnt think it would make a big difference with my 720P PJ. Not very smart I guess lol. As I said before also, when I demoed the PJ in the store it did not look the same, thats why Im thinking its not just me being crazy.

Have you tried the other HDMI input on the PIO?
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post #1632 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 08:41 AM
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Guys, after deciding on the W5000, which I ordered, I couldn't stay away from this thread. Yesterday, I made the call and ordered one of these. It should be here next week. Either of these projectors is a win for me since I'm coming from a 4.5-yr old 576p BenQ7800.

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post #1633 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Midwest User1 View Post

Have you tried the other HDMI input on the PIO?

Yes tried both HDMI on the pio. Same result
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post #1634 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 09:02 AM
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I have just installed this projector into my theater, and I have a problem that I hope someone can help me with. When the test patten of the green squares is being displayed I notice it is not uniform form top to bottom, the top part of the screen completely filled, but the bottom is not. Is the a convergence of geometry problem? And what can I do to fix the problem. Thanks in advance
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post #1635 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

The RS may not be as forgiving with source compression artifacts video noise as other projectors. If this is indeed what you are seeing grab yourself a 2x ND " neutral density " filter. Id grab a 62mm or larger and place it in front of the projectors primary lens. Not only will it give you a slight improvement with black level but as a side effect you will notice less video noise. You should be able to find these at any photography shop for around $50.






.


Thanks I will give it a try. I may even have a smaller one in my camera bag.
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post #1636 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 09:08 AM
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Mine arrives on Tuesday. I have already started taking screenshots with my DSLR for my VP4001 to do comparisons with. That said, screenshorts aren't worth much.
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post #1637 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HGOS1 View Post

I have just installed this projector into my theater, and I have a problem that I hope someone can help me with. When the test patten of the green squares is being displayed I notice it is not uniform form top to bottom, the top part of the screen completely filled, but the bottom is not. Is the a convergence of geometry problem? And what can I do to fix the problem. Thanks in advance

This isn't a panel convergence issue. Without keystone on the RS2 (and many other projectors), you need to ensure 2 things to get good geometry:

1. Make sure that the projector is mounted absolutely level with the horizontal plane (assume your screen is similarly mounted). i.e. regardless of whether it's on a mount, or tabletop, etc., check with a level to make sure.

2. Make sure that the projector is mounted/placed absolutely square/perpendicular to the screen.

Note that the projector doesn't need to be bang in the centre of the screen in order to achieve both of the above, and once achieved, you shouldn't suffer from the issues you mention. In addition that, you can fine tune convergence (beyond that allowed by the on board controls), by trying out a couple of different mounting positions (if you have that flexibility) that are above/below or right/left of the absolute centre of the screen (varies the amount of lens shift you need to use).
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post #1638 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by chexi1 View Post

Mine arrives on Tuesday. I have already started taking screenshots with my DSLR for my VP4001 to do comparisons with. That said, screenshorts aren't worth much.

Excellent! Thanks for taking the time to do this!

Aloha...
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post #1639 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by adanny View Post

So here's my quandary:

a) Should I even bother getting a PJ for a family room with lots of ambient light?

b) If so, should I get the FPJ1 or an alternative (e.g. Panny 3000 or Epson 6500)? Kuro is "higher end" and discounted from 9k down to lower than Panny/Epson levels. But is supposed to be less bright and I have ambient light issues

Like I said, PJ would be in a family room with lots of ambient light. That said, > 80% of watching is at night where light doesnt matter (I also have a plasma in the same room). For 5 years, I have told myself that a PJ is a pipedream but now I am reconsidering.

Assumptions:
Screen is 11-13' away from the seating area; screen is likely 100-110"
Projection distance can be EITHER 11' away (from ceiling) or 22' away (back of the room; room is split into 2)

what is the group's advice? I am leaning towards the discounted panny put at the back of the room versus an FPJ droppped down from the celiing. Back of the room would be aesthetically better but projectore throw is 22'. drop down would be brighter in ambient light (since it is half the distance) but complicated to execute

thanks
adanny


Nobody responded in over a few hours so I had to resort to the only option open to me - buy the damn thing!

Just placed an order with my local favorite AV store for both a 60" Kuro Elite (151FD) and the Kuro projector

Any advice on whether I should even try installing this 22' away (which is aethetically much better) or just bite the bullet and have it installed 11' away to get the extra brightness, especially in a family room with a lot of ambient light? I will do most watching at night so ambient light is an issue but not a killer. Even at night, room is large with all white walls

thanks
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post #1640 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by adanny View Post

Nobody responded in over a few hours so I had to resort to the only option open to me - buy the damn thing!

Just placed an order with my local favorite AV store for both a 60" Kuro Elite (151FD) and the Kuro projector

Any advice on whether I should even try installing this 22' away (which is aethetically much better) or just bite the bullet and have it installed 11' away to get the extra brightness, especially in a family room with a lot of ambient light? I will do most watching at night so ambient light is an issue but not a killer. Even at night, room is large with all white walls

thanks

I wouldnt mount it til you try it both ways.
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post #1641 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenjabil View Post

This isn't a panel convergence issue. Without keystone on the RS2 (and many other projectors), you need to ensure 2 things to get good geometry:

1. Make sure that the projector is mounted absolutely level with the horizontal plane (assume your screen is similarly mounted). i.e. regardless of whether it's on a mount, or tabletop, etc., check with a level to make sure.

2. Make sure that the projector is mounted/placed absolutely square/perpendicular to the screen.

Note that the projector doesn't need to be bang in the centre of the screen in order to achieve both of the above, and once achieved, you shouldn't suffer from the issues you mention. In addition that, you can fine tune convergence (beyond that allowed by the on board controls), by trying out a couple of different mounting positions (if you have that flexibility) that are above/below or right/left of the absolute centre of the screen (varies the amount of lens shift you need to use).

Yep... it sounds like its tipped downward too much.
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post #1642 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adanny View Post

Nobody responded in over a few hours so I had to resort to the only option open to me - buy the damn thing!

Just placed an order with my local favorite AV store for both a 60" Kuro Elite (151FD) and the Kuro projector

Any advice on whether I should even try installing this 22' away (which is aethetically much better) or just bite the bullet and have it installed 11' away to get the extra brightness, especially in a family room with a lot of ambient light? I will do most watching at night so ambient light is an issue but not a killer. Even at night, room is large with all white walls

thanks

I think it will depend on the screen you are going to use. Mine is about 11 feet away from a 92" 1.1 gain screen. It handles a lot of ambient light. It is a far better picture with the lights out, but it is a watchable picture with quite a bit of light in the room. If you are multitasking (reading and have the TV on as a background task) it is fine. I would not have a spotlight on the screen if you can direct the light.
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post #1643 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 06:08 PM
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What's the opinion of this for video games? I play a ton of PS3. I'm looking to get a projector that I will not be able to use until May so I haven't decided if I should jump on this deal or not. I was trying to decide btwn. the Epson 6500 and the Panny AE3000. Is this able to auto focus to 2.35:1 like the 3000 also? I've researched this proj. some but not extensively like I have w/ the others. It seems for a proj. that was supposed to be $9000 it should be head and shoulders in everything above those two but it doesn't seem like that's the case when researching.

A little details about my room. Walls ceiling, and carpet are black. There are no windows and there is a door so it can be a complete bat cave. The projector will be mounted from the ceiling at about 12" away from the front wall. Planning on going w/ 110" screen.

W/ movies the lights will be off, but when gaming or watching sports I'm sure I will have some on. Any opinion on what proj. would be my best bet? Should I hop on this deal now or just wait until end of April/beg. of May when my house construction will be completed.

Thank you for any help!

Chase

I did get an answer on the ratio question, thanks!! Anyone else have any opinions on which proj. would best fit my use? Thanks for any help.
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post #1644 of 4341 Old 03-07-2009, 08:00 PM
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post #1645 of 4341 Old 03-08-2009, 04:44 AM
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I won't go into a long "review" here since this PJ has been out for a loooong time. Plus there is no way I would want to follow the master gregr. I will post my initial thoughts since I am coming from the VW200 flagship unit from Sony. The Pioneer Kuro FPJ1 (RS2) is an excellent PJ. I was very surprised at just how well the image looked yesterday. I ran it for about 8 straight hours to! We watched Beverly Hills Chihuahua and it looked very good to great. I applied the gamma trick (gregr's and Alan Gs) and that alone elevates the performance level very high. I was very apprehensive about selling my VW200 and almost chickened out. I am glad I did after spending a day with the FPJ1. It will definitely get the job done until Fall or even longer if needed. It is really hard to tell some characteristics of the new unit since it is brand spanking new. I could easily tell a difference with the contrast. And I will give the edge to the Kuro with Black Levels as well. I did see a little more noise in slow pans then I am used to but nothing significant enough to be a showstopper. I was able to make some simple adjusting that really minimized any noise. I won't post any calibrations yet since the lamp is virgin like. I typically calibrate 50 hours to 100 hours in or so. I like letting the lamp settle down first. It is very bright now. The Sony always seemed more than bright enough but this PJ seemed even brighter. I am using a Vutec SS about 15 feet away (ceiling mounted) with a Masquerade Masking System from Carada. Sharpness is very close actually. I would probably give the edge to the sony though. My Pioneer 09FD helps with detail and sharpness though so it ended up still being very close. Colors were awesome. I haven't dialed them in yet but if you are an eye candy extremist like myself than this PJ is for you! I will also point out that I like how easy it was to maneuver the image to the left and right via the knob on top. Which there is also one for going up and down as well. With my Sony I had to make a big production out of it using a screwdriver and stool. It trimmed set up time down a bunch! Speaking of set up time the menus are very simple to navigate. I liked being able to select colorspace (never had that option before) and also loved the gamma incremental adjustments. I also like having the freedom to put the GUI anywhere you want on the screen. That is cool. I spent most of the day looking at Blu ray titles. Today I plan to spend awhile viewing DirecTV. Blu ray at 1080p/24 was terrific. I specifically sent in 1080p/23.98 colorspace 4:4:4 with excellent results. My Wife was also very impressed with the picture. She also likes how the Kuro is smaller than the VW200. I like its shiny black piano look. It matches all of my components in the rack perfectly. I will also miss the word sony lit up on the bottom of the VW200 but will gladly live with the FPJ1's little green dot. I will post more impressions soon but so far I have been very impressed with the performance. With the price these PJs are going for they have got to be the absolute best bang for the buck on the market today! And that is coming from someone who just had a PJ with a msrp of 15K! If you are on the fence then trust me when I say "jump off as fast as you can" because this PJs availability won't last!!!

I want to send out a personal thanks to Robert (VE) for making sure I got the FPJ1 quickly. After I sold the VW200 and shipped it early Wednesday morning I was already having theater withdraw! Not anymore!

I included a pic from T3 and then some fun pics from Monsters Inc. both on Blu ray...
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL

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None of your attachments work
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post #1647 of 4341 Old 03-08-2009, 05:48 AM
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None of your attachments work

They are working for me.
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post #1648 of 4341 Old 03-08-2009, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I won't go into a long "review" here since this PJ has been out for a loooong time. Plus there is no way I would want to follow the master gregr. I will post my initial thoughts since I am coming from the VW200 flagship unit from Sony. The Pioneer Kuro FPJ1 (RS2) is an excellent PJ. I was very surprised at just how well the image looked yesterday. I ran it for about 8 straight hours to! We watched Beverly Hills Chihuahua and it looked very good to great. I applied the gamma trick (gregr's and Alan Gs) and that alone elevates the performance level very high. I was very apprehensive about selling my VW200 and almost chickened out. I am glad I did after spending a day with the FPJ1. It will definitely get the job done until Fall or even longer if needed. It is really hard to tell some characteristics of the new unit since it is brand spanking new. I could easily tell a difference with the contrast. And I will give the edge to the Kuro with Black Levels as well. I did see a little more noise in slow pans then I am used to but nothing significant enough to be a showstopper. I was able to make some simple adjusting that really minimized any noise. I won't post any calibrations yet since the lamp is virgin like. I typically calibrate 50 hours to 100 hours in or so. I like letting the lamp settle down first. It is very bright now. The Sony always seemed more than bright enough but this PJ seemed even brighter. I am using a Vutec SS about 15 feet away (ceiling mounted) with a Masquerade Masking System from Carada. Sharpness is very close actually. I would probably give the edge to the sony though. My Pioneer 09FD helps with detail and sharpness though so it ended up still being very close. Colors were awesome. I haven't dialed them in yet but if you are an eye candy extremist like myself than this PJ is for you! I will also point out that I like how easy it was to maneuver the image to the left and right via the knob on top. Which there is also one for going up and down as well. With my Sony I had to make a big production out of it using a screwdriver and stool. It trimmed set up time down a bunch! Speaking of set up time the menus are very simple to navigate. I liked being able to select colorspace (never had that option before) and also loved the gamma incremental adjustments. I also like having the freedom to put the GUI anywhere you want on the screen. That is cool. I spent most of the day looking at Blu ray titles. Today I plan to spend awhile viewing DirecTV. Blu ray at 1080p/24 was terrific. I specifically sent in 1080p/23.98 colorspace 4:4:4 with excellent results. My Wife was also very impressed with the picture. She also likes how the Kuro is smaller than the VW200. I like its shiny black piano look. It matches all of my components in the rack perfectly. I will also miss the word sony lit up on the bottom of the VW200 but will gladly live with the FPJ1's little green dot. I will post more impressions soon but so far I have been very impressed with the performance. With the price these PJs are going for they have got to be the absolute best bang for the buck on the market today! And that is coming from someone who just had a PJ with a msrp of 15K! If you are on the fence then trust me when I say "jump off as fast as you can" because this PJs availability won't last!!!

I want to send out a personal thanks to Robert (VE) for making sure I got the FPJ1 quickly. After I sold the VW200 and shipped it early Wednesday morning I was already having theater withdraw! Not anymore!

I included a pic from T3 and then some fun pics from Monsters Inc. both on Blu ray...

Now I'm salivating even more! Mine will be here on Wednesday. Moving from an RS1 to the FPJ1.
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post #1649 of 4341 Old 03-08-2009, 06:01 AM
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Joerod,

Thanks for the review. I just set mine up temporarily and really love it. Can't wait to see your settings. Will you post them in this thread?
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post #1650 of 4341 Old 03-08-2009, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fretman View Post

They are working for me.

Working for me too, now. Originally they even had different names, I guess it took them a while to "register" or something.
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