BenQ W 5000 little Test - Page 173 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5161 of 5193 Old 09-18-2017, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Don't underestimate how much of a difference other attributes can make. I couldn't imagine going back to my W5000 after having my Planar 8150 or either of my JVCs.
I realize that but honestly I haven't really found anything yet that would justify all the trouble of installation work. I actually have Panasonic VT60 plasma too and while it has so much better contrast than W5000, picture is not that much better overall. Also my W5000 beats image quality of my local cinemas digital projectors any day, so that's why I've been waiting patiently.
I have checked few units during years but almost always they would have required serious adjustments in my living room (wrong throw ratio, no lens shift or too limited and so on). I have placed my W5000 on the top of the large cabinet so high that I need a lot of lens shift to get picture low enough. Also depth of that cabinet is limited and cannot be increased, so projector's depth has to be the same as W5000 or less. Lately I've been also seriously waiting for OLED flat screens improving and coming available bigger than 65" and they should be coming pretty soon (I just hope price will be reasonable, like in the smaller models today), so that would be a nice alternative for projector also.



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Wish mine would have lasted that long.
Mine has been incredible. By far the best projector I have ever owned, and I have had them so many in my life most of them costing many times more than this. This has been the cheapest, most reliable and the only one that I have been happy with image quality for long time. I used to update projectors before this even only after some months. Some units I kept couple years. Most of them had terrible problems in them from the beginning, and if not they developed one. This one was serviced only once.


I'm not saying another projector is out of the question but I have no idea what to even consider as replacement that would meet my requirements. Any suggestions?
Preferably DLP without costing arm and leg, and it should have about the same throw ratio as W5000 and lens shift should be able to place upper edge of the image at the same level as lens when unit is right side up.

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post #5162 of 5193 Old 09-18-2017, 01:28 AM
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Have you had it in for any service at all during the time you have owned it?

Only once. It developed that half picture vertical lines DLP board issue and it was fixed under warranty. It was somewhere around 2000-2500 hours. Now it has about 5600 total hours and it is on third bulb (bulbs seem to last forever in this unit, none blew and did not even get way too dim but of course new bulb made it shine every time like new).


I'm not totally giving up on my W5000 yet. I need to check it again with fresh eyes and make sure everything before throwing it away. One thing that come to my mind was that I need to make sure focus setting. I haven't touched if for many years as it has never needed fine tuning once set correctly. I have self made lens cap that I have learned to put on and take off without messing with the setting ever during all these years, but maybe that could have happened after all. Then again it does not explain why everything looks fine from 1-2 feet from screen but not from normal viewing distance...


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I wonder if the 4K Optomas have better contrast than the W5000?
I haven't seen that myself but from reading reviews of recent 4K DLP projectors, it looks like contrast ratios aren't really getting better, many are even worse.

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post #5163 of 5193 Old 09-18-2017, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
I'm not saying another projector is out of the question but I have no idea what to even consider as replacement that would meet my requirements. Any suggestions?
Preferably DLP without costing arm and leg, and it should have about the same throw ratio as W5000 and lens shift should be able to place upper edge of the image at the same level as lens when unit is right side up.
Honsetly, I can't see spending money on a DLP anymore, even though it's still my "favorite" technology. As you probably remember from the W5000 days, with DLP the picture performance really plateaus quickly, where you can spend a lot more for very, very little gain in picture. The W5000 was sort of at the knee in it's day, I think the knee is lower now. Unless you're going to spend something like $10k on a new 0.95" DC4 machine from DPI or maybe Vivitek, everything else is a 0.65" DMD with performance that's not a lot different from the W1070/1085 which is a <$1000 machine. DLP really seems to have given up the "high end" home theater market. Further, most tend to have pretty terrible installation flexibility.

Outside of DLP, installation flexibility is really not a problem.

Well a JVC would blow you away, there's some killer deals on B-stock units from AVS. They'd meet all your requirements except they're about 2" deeper than the W5000. I saw an Epson 5040 at a local dealer that looked nice, but that was just about a 30 second look, I didn't evaluate it or anything. But when you compare the W5000 to something 2-3x brighter and with 100 times the contrast, well...
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post #5164 of 5193 Old 09-19-2017, 08:15 PM
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I agree with stanger89.

I had been a longtime DLP fan, from the days it was actually competitive with contrast. After 7 good years with my Mits HC3800, I was looking for an upgrade and DLP has just gone absolutely nowhere. The HC3800 had been measured around 3000:1 native contrast, which was really good for a DLP. Most of the DLP's today (and recent past) in that price bracket measure much worse now.

I stepped up to a low hr used JVC RS57 (X700) and have been very pleased with the contrast and very low black floor performance. It's very quiet too. I did a rough side-by-side comparison of my HC3800 before selling it to a friend and on bright scenes, mixed scenes, it actually held up very well to the JVC. I'd even give the HC3800 a very slight edge in bright scene pop. Impossible to tell w/o a side-by-side otherwise.

But the blacks were just incredible. I had to now cover all my equip LED's up in my room. In a fade out to black it gets so black, that it seems like a black hole until your eyes adjust. This is way darker than a commercial theater. Even if some of the newer commercial theaters have better projectors with good contrast now, they still have to keep the runway lights and scones lit up on the walls so that people don't trip in the dark and sue them. So it will never get as black and dark there as it can with a JVC in your theater.

Surprisingly I didn't really see much of an improvement with shadow detail, other than it's just more black and less gray...but no extra detail.
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post #5165 of 5193 Old 09-19-2017, 08:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
I agree with stanger89.

I had been a longtime DLP fan, from the days it was actually competitive with contrast. After 7 good years with my Mits HC3800, I was looking for an upgrade and DLP has just gone absolutely nowhere. The HC3800 had been measured around 3000:1 native contrast, which was really good for a DLP. Most of the DLP's today (and recent past) in that price bracket measure much worse now.

I stepped up to a low hr used JVC RS57 (X700) and have been very pleased with the contrast and very low black floor performance. It's very quiet too. I did a rough side-by-side comparison of my HC3800 before selling it to a friend and on bright scenes, mixed scenes, it actually held up very well to the JVC. I'd even give the HC3800 a very slight edge in bright scene pop. Impossible to tell w/o a side-by-side otherwise.

But the blacks were just incredible. I had to now cover all my equip LED's up in my room. In a fade out to black it gets so black, that it seems like a black hole until your eyes adjust. This is way darker than a commercial theater. Even if some of the newer commercial theaters have better projectors with good contrast now, they still have to keep the runway lights and scones lit up on the walls so that people don't trip in the dark and sue them. So it will never get as black and dark there as it can with a JVC in your theater.

Surprisingly I didn't really see much of an improvement with shadow detail, other than it's just more black and less gray...but no extra detail.
The JVC 1080p projectors are notorious for crushing digital 17 with regular out of the box settings, which is the first step out of black encoded in the Blu-rays we watch. This means that without a proper calibration these JVCs actually have fairly poor shadow detail performance. If you get a chance, you should have a professional come out to calibrate your X700. It will help tremendously in this regard by fixing the crush problem. From what I've read, it seems their new native 4K projector doesn't seem to have this issue out of the box, so I suppose it might be possible this issue will be a thing of a past on any subsequent native 4K projectors from JVC, but of course we'll have to see if they continue this trend first.
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post #5166 of 5193 Old 09-20-2017, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
I realize that but honestly I haven't really found anything yet that would justify all the trouble of installation work. I actually have Panasonic VT60 plasma too and while it has so much better contrast than W5000, picture is not that much better overall. Also my W5000 beats image quality of my local cinemas digital projectors any day, so that's why I've been waiting patiently.
I have checked few units during years but almost always they would have required serious adjustments in my living room (wrong throw ratio, no lens shift or too limited and so on). I have placed my W5000 on the top of the large cabinet so high that I need a lot of lens shift to get picture low enough. Also depth of that cabinet is limited and cannot be increased, so projector's depth has to be the same as W5000 or less. Lately I've been also seriously waiting for OLED flat screens improving and coming available bigger than 65" and they should be coming pretty soon (I just hope price will be reasonable, like in the smaller models today), so that would be a nice alternative for projector also.



Mine has been incredible. By far the best projector I have ever owned, and I have had them so many in my life most of them costing many times more than this. This has been the cheapest, most reliable and the only one that I have been happy with image quality for long time. I used to update projectors before this even only after some months. Some units I kept couple years. Most of them had terrible problems in them from the beginning, and if not they developed one. This one was serviced only once.


I'm not saying another projector is out of the question but I have no idea what to even consider as replacement that would meet my requirements. Any suggestions?
Preferably DLP without costing arm and leg, and it should have about the same throw ratio as W5000 and lens shift should be able to place upper edge of the image at the same level as lens when unit is right side up.
I'm a huge DLP fan. Just like most here, I've been hoping that TI would step up to the plate and make DLP competitive at 4K. I've been tempted many times by the JVCs, but so far, I've resisted.
Years ago, we had a couple of different Benqs. FWIW, we also have a Panasonic VT60 series plasma as our daytime display (kindred soles).
Our FP is the Sharp XV-Z30000. If you like your Benq and want to ride out the DLP "transition" to 4K, I can not recommend it highly enough. They are getting difficult to find, but do they turn up in the classified and ebay from time to time. If you find one for <$2K, check it out.
My $.02.
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post #5167 of 5193 Old 09-20-2017, 11:24 AM
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I can’t quite identify with the fascination with/attachment to DLP in the current landscape. I used to be very pleased with my BenQ W20000 DLP that was basically state of the art in 2008, with an original retail price of over 7000 USD (I got it cheaper when it was phased out 2009).

I used it for almost a decade up until this year and thought that image quality in general couldn’t be improved much without going broke; the BenQ threw a very sharp and balanced picture - I thought perhaps that 4K would tighten and resolve a bit more, but not enough to warrant a new installation.

Then I demoed and directly compared Epsons 5040 (LCD) and JVCs RS400 (DLA) versus my BenQ and there was no contest. Both of them right now are half the retail price of the 2008 BenQ but exceeds it an every way, and that’s just 1080. In a light controlled room, the JVC in 4K with properly set HDR is better than any public cinema I have ever been to and almost on pair with contrast and blackness found on OLED tv:s

JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
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post #5168 of 5193 Old 09-20-2017, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
The JVC 1080p projectors are notorious for crushing digital 17 with regular out of the box settings, which is the first step out of black encoded in the Blu-rays we watch. This means that without a proper calibration these JVCs actually have fairly poor shadow detail performance. If you get a chance, you should have a professional come out to calibrate your X700. It will help tremendously in this regard by fixing the crush problem. From what I've read, it seems their new native 4K projector doesn't seem to have this issue out of the box, so I suppose it might be possible this issue will be a thing of a past on any subsequent native 4K projectors from JVC, but of course we'll have to see if they continue this trend first.
I've been keeping an eye out for a Spyder4 so that I can do the JVC autocalibrate....mostly to do the gamma calibration as mine surely has the gamma droop at 800hrs now. In the meantime I've had to use a lower gamma preset (like 2.2 or 2.1), plus kick the dark gamma adjustment up like +2 on all colors--both of which increased my shadow detail and helped the black crush quite a bit, as it was really bad when I got it at 580hrs on the PJ. Doing those adjustments, while helping a LOT, just brought the shadow detail perf up to the level of my HC3800 (which was dialed in pretty good with gamma too).

The HC3800 was known to have pretty good shadow detail perf, do you think the RS57 is capable of better?

Will a Spyder and JVC autocalibrate fix the shadow detail to the level of a pro? Not that interested in a color calibrate, as I'm pretty happy with colors as they are. But maybe that will effect shadows too?

I've heard about the digital 17 issue with JVC's....but did not know this could be calibrated for? Seemed everything I've read was that it was just a thing with these JVC's and to not worry about it that much.

??
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post #5169 of 5193 Old 09-20-2017, 12:03 PM
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I
Our FP is the Sharp XV-Z30000. If you like your Benq and want to ride out the DLP "transition" to 4K, I can not recommend it highly enough. They are getting difficult to find, but do they turn up in the classified and ebay from time to time. If you find one for <$2K, check it out.
My $.02.
I snagged my JVC RS57/X700 for $2k on ebay. It had 580hrs on the original lamp and came with an additional new OEM lamp in a sealed box.

The RS57 was a $7k (actually $8k) listed price PJ when new 3-4 years ago, so I certainly got a deal. Was looking for X500/RS4910/RS49's actually at that $2k price point, but just got lucky with mine probably cos the seller listed it only as an RS57....he should have put 'X700' in the title too.
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post #5170 of 5193 Old 09-20-2017, 03:48 PM
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I can’t quite identify with the fascination with/attachment to DLP in the current landscape. I used to be very pleased with my BenQ W20000 DLP that was basically state of the art in 2008, with an original retail price of over 7000 USD (I got it cheaper when it was phased out 2009).

I used it for almost a decade up until this year and thought that image quality in general couldn’t be improved much without going broke; the BenQ threw a very sharp and balanced picture - I thought perhaps that 4K would tighten and resolve a bit more, but not enough to warrant a new installation.

Then I demoed and directly compared Epsons 5040 (LCD) and JVCs RS400 (DLA) versus my BenQ and there was no contest. Both of them right now are half the retail price of the 2008 BenQ but exceeds it an every way, and that’s just 1080. In a light controlled room, the JVC in 4K with properly set HDR is better than any public cinema I have ever been to and almost on pair with contrast and blackness found on OLED tv:s
I can sumarize my DLP faination in one word: "Sports".
The native sharpness/motion handling, in combination with a Darbee (and a DaLite HP) make live sports almost like being "there". If you watch a lot of dark content (ie SciFi movies), the LCOS (JVC & Sony) beat DLP in spades. However, most of our movies are brighter content and we tend to watch a lot of sports. DLP still does it for us.
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post #5171 of 5193 Old 09-20-2017, 06:18 PM
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I can sumarize my DLP faination in one word: "Sports".
The native sharpness/motion handling, in combination with a Darbee (and a DaLite HP) make live sports almost like being "there". If you watch a lot of dark content (ie SciFi movies), the LCOS (JVC & Sony) beat DLP in spades. However, most of our movies are brighter content and we tend to watch a lot of sports. DLP still does it for us.
I still have yet to identify a difference in motion between my Planar 8150 and RS600. DLP's got some great attributes, uniformity, stability, etc, if they'd only bring tandem DMDs to the consumer market (and if they could manage it at "reasonable" prices) they could wipe the floor with LCoS. In the mean time, I find DLP's benefits to be fleeting to non-existent in bright content, and the limitations are obvious when things get darker.
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post #5172 of 5193 Old 09-20-2017, 06:44 PM
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I still have yet to identify a difference in motion between my Planar 8150 and RS600. DLP's got some great attributes, uniformity, stability, etc, if they'd only bring tandem DMDs to the consumer market (and if they could manage it at "reasonable" prices) they could wipe the floor with LCoS. In the mean time, I find DLP's benefits to be fleeting to non-existent in bright content, and the limitations are obvious when things get darker.
Stranger89,
I can not recall if you have had a Sharp Z30K? The smooth dynamic iris takes the black and detail to a new level, for DLP (HT humor ).
Jason (Zombie) still has one in his multi PJ stack. Last time he talked about it, he was still using it for day to day TV and 3D.
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post #5173 of 5193 Old 09-20-2017, 06:48 PM
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Nope, never had the Sharp.
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post #5174 of 5193 Old 09-23-2017, 07:26 AM
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Honsetly, I can't see spending money on a DLP anymore, even though it's still my "favorite" technology. As you probably remember from the W5000 days, with DLP the picture performance really plateaus quickly, where you can spend a lot more for very, very little gain in picture. The W5000 was sort of at the knee in it's day, I think the knee is lower now. Unless you're going to spend something like $10k on a new 0.95" DC4 machine from DPI or maybe Vivitek, everything else is a 0.65" DMD with performance that's not a lot different from the W1070/1085 which is a <$1000 machine. DLP really seems to have given up the "high end" home theater market. Further, most tend to have pretty terrible installation flexibility.

Outside of DLP, installation flexibility is really not a problem.

Well a JVC would blow you away, there's some killer deals on B-stock units from AVS. They'd meet all your requirements except they're about 2" deeper than the W5000. I saw an Epson 5040 at a local dealer that looked nice, but that was just about a 30 second look, I didn't evaluate it or anything. But when you compare the W5000 to something 2-3x brighter and with 100 times the contrast, well...
It definitely seems that there are very few reasonable priced DLP's today offering lens shift with decent adjustment range and the fact that even "4K" machines are using gimmicks to produce 4K image. Many times I've been considering those DILA based units and their variants but I'm sure all panel alignment, aging, rising black level and all sort of issues there are will drive me nuts.


I will see later if I can find out what's wrong with my DLP and if nothing is improved, I'll have to reconsider those DILA based units again. I'm really hoping it would because I was hoping this one would last until very big OLED's became available at reasonable price.
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post #5175 of 5193 Old 09-23-2017, 01:13 PM
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Many times I've been considering those DILA based units and their variants but I'm sure all panel alignment, aging, rising black level and all sort of issues there are will drive me nuts.
Panel alignment> For sure I don't have perfect convergence on my JVC, but my JVC has a WAY better lens than my Mits HC3800 DLP. With the Mits, I had pretty bad focus uniformity across the screen. Had to choose what part of the screen I wanted to be in focus (chose the center of course). I'd say my Mits could only have about a 1/3 of my screen in focus, while with the JVC it is WAY better....perhaps in the 90%+ range (honestly didn't try to look at every pixel to find out).
So perfect convergence on the DLP with a cheaper lens, vs worse convergence but way better lens on the JVC = about the same 'apparent' sharpness between them.

I'm sure a higher end .95" single chip DLP with a better lens could do better of course.

Rising black level> This doesn't appear to be an issue with JVC's.

Sure, there are pros/cons to each....but right now I can't go back to DLP as that tech stands right now. Once you go black, you don't go back!
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post #5176 of 5193 Old 11-05-2018, 04:50 AM
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I just noticed that my W5000 just had 10th birthday. Happy birthday my trusty old friend!

When I bought it decade ago, I never would believed that I would keep it for so long considering this one only cost fraction of a price I paid for my previous projectors. Before this one, I kept changing them all the time and I had 6 or 7 different models in 8 or 9 years. My W5000 is still in frequent use, almost daily or at least 3-4 times a week. It is on third bulb and total hours about 6100-6200 hours.

I've been eyeing a new projector for years, but so far I haven't found any that I liked so much I wanted to go thru hassle of installation difficulties and endless calibrations.
I definitely would like to find real 4K DLP with good contrast and good lens shift but it seems they are rare. Maybe some DILA based would be possible but from what I saw some cheaper Sony real 4k unit last year it did not really impress me in any way. It looked flat and black level was not that good at all. I've been also seriously considering huge flat screen but it would have to be at least over 80" and even that would be a considerable downgrade in size but probably tolerable if I change seating distance a bit.
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post #5177 of 5193 Old 11-05-2018, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
I just noticed that my W5000 just had 10th birthday. Happy birthday my trusty old friend!

When I bought it decade ago, I never would believed that I would keep it for so long considering this one only cost fraction of a price I paid for my previous projectors. Before this one, I kept changing them all the time and I had 6 or 7 different models in 8 or 9 years. My W5000 is still in frequent use, almost daily or at least 3-4 times a week. It is on third bulb and total hours about 6100-6200 hours.

I've been eyeing a new projector for years, but so far I haven't found any that I liked so much I wanted to go thru hassle of installation difficulties and endless calibrations.
I definitely would like to find real 4K DLP with good contrast and good lens shift but it seems they are rare. Maybe some DILA based would be possible but from what I saw some cheaper Sony real 4k unit last year it did not really impress me in any way. It looked flat and black level was not that good at all. I've been also seriously considering huge flat screen but it would have to be at least over 80" and even that would be a considerable downgrade in size but probably tolerable if I change seating distance a bit.
+1 on the "still riding the DLP wave". Like you, I've been hoping for a 4K DLP (with powered lens controls and lens memory). With each new itteration of JVCs and Sonys, I get tempted to cross over to the "dark side".
We are still rocking our Sharp Z30K (and Panasonic VT plasma). It feels as if I've missed my AVS 4K merit badge...
Hoping Benq or one of the others steps up in 2019. Note: I said the same thing in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018, so I'm not holding my breath.
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post #5178 of 5193 Old 11-05-2018, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
I just noticed that my W5000 just had 10th birthday. Happy birthday my trusty old friend!

When I bought it decade ago, I never would believed that I would keep it for so long considering this one only cost fraction of a price I paid for my previous projectors. Before this one, I kept changing them all the time and I had 6 or 7 different models in 8 or 9 years. My W5000 is still in frequent use, almost daily or at least 3-4 times a week. It is on third bulb and total hours about 6100-6200 hours.

I've been eyeing a new projector for years, but so far I haven't found any that I liked so much I wanted to go thru hassle of installation difficulties and endless calibrations.
I definitely would like to find real 4K DLP with good contrast and good lens shift but it seems they are rare. Maybe some DILA based would be possible but from what I saw some cheaper Sony real 4k unit last year it did not really impress me in any way. It looked flat and black level was not that good at all. I've been also seriously considering huge flat screen but it would have to be at least over 80" and even that would be a considerable downgrade in size but probably tolerable if I change seating distance a bit.

Congrats on the 10 years of owning and using the W5000! I joined the 10 year club this last July, and have been waiting myself to pull the trigger on a true 4K projector, but haven't done so yet. Man time is flying by so fast, glad to see we are still around
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post #5179 of 5193 Old 11-05-2018, 02:20 PM
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I've had my W5000 for 10x years also, and still on the original bulb as I haven't used it as much as I'd like until recently. Now it gets a few hours use (along with my rowing machine) every evening.
Apart from needing to replace that pesky FET around 18 months ago, (and what a tricky job that was) it's been absolutely faultless. Also waiting for that killer 4K replacement with lens shift at a killer price.
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post #5180 of 5193 Old 11-19-2018, 04:31 AM
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Hello!
I have a projector with old firmware.
Is it possible (at home) to flash 2.01?
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post #5181 of 5193 Old 11-21-2018, 12:19 AM
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I now have 1.12 firmware installed.
Should I load my head and change to 2.01?
What is new there that fixed such a bad thing?
Connection - HDMI only.
Thank.
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post #5182 of 5193 Old 11-21-2018, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
I just noticed that my W5000 just had 10th birthday. Happy birthday my trusty old friend!

When I bought it decade ago, I never would believed that I would keep it for so long considering this one only cost fraction of a price I paid for my previous projectors. Before this one, I kept changing them all the time and I had 6 or 7 different models in 8 or 9 years. My W5000 is still in frequent use, almost daily or at least 3-4 times a week. It is on third bulb and total hours about 6100-6200 hours.

I've been eyeing a new projector for years, but so far I haven't found any that I liked so much I wanted to go thru hassle of installation difficulties and endless calibrations.
I definitely would like to find real 4K DLP with good contrast and good lens shift but it seems they are rare. Maybe some DILA based would be possible but from what I saw some cheaper Sony real 4k unit last year it did not really impress me in any way. It looked flat and black level was not that good at all. I've been also seriously considering huge flat screen but it would have to be at least over 80" and even that would be a considerable downgrade in size but probably tolerable if I change seating distance a bit.
I have had a w10000 for a bit longer and would consider replacement if there is a good option for watching predominantly sports. Is there one? I installed a shelf for it instead of installing the projector but would have to worry about the size and throw anyhow as the shelf is just large enough for the projector and I send the picture to a 165'' custom screen about 25 feet away.
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post #5183 of 5193 Old 03-03-2019, 11:09 AM
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I too have had my W5000 for 10 years. I use it pretty much daily to watch regular TV and movies. I am now on my 6th bulb. I could use some opinions. Not too long ago I added Sony X800 UHD BluRay and started streaming. I have noticed that the overall pix is darker and really unwatchable for many movies and TV. I searched the forums etc and found others possibly noting issues with Netflix and Amazon streaming in HDR etc causing a darker pix. I am not sure that this would be an issue as this projector should only receive or upscale to 1080p. Has anyone else noticed this? Also, could the dynamic iris not be functioning correctly? How to troubleshoot? I have tried changing the iris setting from 2-19 without much difference. I have tried changing the calibration settings to a limited degree (and totally confusing myself) without attaining an adequate pix. Does anyone have calibration settings they would like to share and would be much appreciated. Any other thoughts? I too have thought of upgrading to the HT3550. I wonder how much difference in contrast and brightness there would be with the new technology and the smaller .47DMD. Thanks for any help.
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post #5184 of 5193 Old 11-29-2019, 06:55 AM
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My W5000 has now been in use for over 11 years!
I still haven't found a satisfying projector to be a successor for my W5K. Seems like development in DLP's have stopped after that. No real 4K for consumer unit and even those XPR models seem very basic cheap construction models with bad optics and so on. I've been considering JVC 4K DILA but I honestly would prefer high ansi contrast from DLP and there are serious placement issues with JVC as it is so much deeper than my current BenQ.
I've been desperately even thinking about getting either 77" OLED or 85" LCD TV but it is really hard to give up that extra size (I have had 95" screen for past 20 years)…

Anyone else it facing the same dilemma?
My W5K still runs fine, so I'm not in a rush other than there are nice TV offers during BF sales… Also because my PJ is already over 11 years old I realize the fact it may die any day, but that's what I have been predicting for the past 5 year already.

Last edited by Big Lebowski; 11-29-2019 at 06:59 AM.
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post #5185 of 5193 Old 11-30-2019, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
My W5000 has now been in use for over 11 years!
I still haven't found a satisfying projector to be a successor for my W5K. Seems like development in DLP's have stopped after that. No real 4K for consumer unit and even those XPR models seem very basic cheap construction models with bad optics and so on. I've been considering JVC 4K DILA but I honestly would prefer high ansi contrast from DLP and there are serious placement issues with JVC as it is so much deeper than my current BenQ.
I've been desperately even thinking about getting either 77" OLED or 85" LCD TV but it is really hard to give up that extra size (I have had 95" screen for past 20 years)…

Anyone else it facing the same dilemma?
My W5K still runs fine, so I'm not in a rush other than there are nice TV offers during BF sales… Also because my PJ is already over 11 years old I realize the fact it may die any day, but that's what I have been predicting for the past 5 year already.
+1 on Benq DLPs.
I have been waiting 8 years for them to offer a full featured 4K DLP with powered lens controls and lens memory. These have been standard features on JVC and Sony for quite some time.
I'm hoping that 2020 is the year that Benq or Optoma step up to the plate and compete with $4-$5K DLP 4K machines...
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post #5186 of 5193 Old 11-30-2019, 09:51 AM
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As much as I loved my DLP's over the course of almost 15 years, I switched out my last DLP, a Mits H3800 for a used RS57 (X700) JVC last year. I too got tired of waiting for DLP tech advancements.

Sharpness was about the same between the JVC/Mits. 'Pop' was about the same on bright and mid-bright scenes. The difference (of course) was dark scenes. JVC won out in dark contrast/pop and black level by far. So much so that I had to do more light control---cover up LED's, light from outside windows, etc. It gets very very dark now in a full fade to black scene or very black starfield scene. In fact, it's better than any commercial theater I've been to as those still have some low lighting on the walkways, etc. for safety.
In my room if there's a bright scene that cuts to a black scene, my whole room is completely black. I can't see anything for a few seconds until my eyes adjust. If there's a bright inside spaceship scene and a cut to space starfield scene, for a moment all I see is the starfield scene, I can't see my room at all. Kinda like I'm in a black hole and just have this space window.

Now I have the best of what the Mits offered and the best of JVC. Plus the JVC was quieter.

For relatively good DLP you will need to get one that has a very good DI IMO. Plus one with DC3 type native contrast, and it seems those were DLP's that were made a few years ago---which of course means native 1080p, not 4k. All the 4k DLP chips seem to have only about 1000:1 native contrast.

The new 4k native JVC's took a step back in native contrast (though still no comparison to DLP of course), though they are also the sharpest JVC's (JVC's get progressively sharper through the model years).

The new JVC's are a pretty penny. That and the step back in native contrast and the HDR tone mapping that every manufacture (disc/player/display) seems to still be figuring out (JVC is greatly improved over previous models, but everyone still has no real standard yet), makes me satisfied in waiting it out for a few years. By then I expect JVC will have improved their 4k native contrast, dropped in price and hopefully there'll be a HDR tone mapping standard that everything will play nice with. Until then, I'm very happy with my JVC that has better PQ than any commercial theater

Last edited by fleaman; 11-30-2019 at 09:58 AM. Reason: .
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post #5187 of 5193 Old 11-30-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
As much as I loved my DLP's over the course of almost 15 years, I switched out my last DLP, a Mits H3800 for a used RS57 (X700) JVC last year. I too got tired of waiting for DLP tech advancements.

Sharpness was about the same between the JVC/Mits. 'Pop' was about the same on bright and mid-bright scenes. The difference (of course) was dark scenes. JVC won out in dark contrast/pop and black level by far. So much so that I had to do more light control---cover up LED's, light from outside windows, etc. It gets very very dark now in a full fade to black scene or very black starfield scene. In fact, it's better than any commercial theater I've been to as those still have some low lighting on the walkways, etc. for safety.
In my room if there's a bright scene that cuts to a black scene, my whole room is completely black. I can't see anything for a few seconds until my eyes adjust. If there's a bright inside spaceship scene and a cut to space starfield scene, for a moment all I see is the starfield scene, I can't see my room at all. Kinda like I'm in a black hole and just have this space window.

Now I have the best of what the Mits offered and the best of JVC. Plus the JVC was quieter.

For relatively good DLP you will need to get one that has a very good DI IMO. Plus one with DC3 type native contrast, and it seems those were DLP's that were made a few years ago---which of course means native 1080p, not 4k. All the 4k DLP chips seem to have only about 1000:1 native contrast.

The new 4k native JVC's took a step back in native contrast (though still no comparison to DLP of course), though they are also the sharpest JVC's (JVC's get progressively sharper through the model years).

The new JVC's are a pretty penny. That and the step back in native contrast and the HDR tone mapping that every manufacture (disc/player/display) seems to still be figuring out (JVC is greatly improved over previous models, but everyone still has no real standard yet), makes me satisfied in waiting it out for a few years. By then I expect JVC will have improved their 4k native contrast, dropped in price and hopefully there'll be a HDR tone mapping standard that everything will play nice with. Until then, I'm very happy with my JVC that has better PQ than any commercial theater
I hear you. Thanks for the feedback.
I've been a DLP guy since our first HT projector (Benq PE8720).
For years, I've been on the fence about switching to JVC or Sony for 4K. However, I'm not an "ultimate black" fan like so many here at AVS. We watch a lot of HD sports and bright movies. The sharpness/pop advantage of DLP wins out on > 90% of our content.
Also, we are lucky enough to have a Sharp Z30K (with a Darbee and iscan). The DI is excellent for contrast enhancement and the DLP pop and sharpness are some of the best I have seen. When we go to 4K, we "need" motorized lens controls/ lens memory for our two screen set up (Thanks Craig). The projector is ceiling mounted in low earth orbit and manual lens adjustment means a ladder...
I can not understand the DLP makers. If Sharp could make a superb DLP with good contrast and powered controls back in 2012, why can't they make one now? Instead of trying to compete with LCOS on black levels, why not play to your strengths and emphasize DLP sharpness and pop?
There is way more bright content then dark scifi movies...
My $.02
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post #5188 of 5193 Old 12-01-2019, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post
For years, I've been on the fence about switching to JVC or Sony for 4K. However, I'm not an "ultimate black" fan like so many here at AVS. We watch a lot of HD sports and bright movies. The sharpness/pop advantage of DLP wins out on > 90% of our content.
I was really amazed by the pop/sharpness of my Mits DLP on a blu ray like 'Lucy' and was afraid I was gonna give some of that up with the JVC, but alas, it was about the same pop/sharpness. On first comparison, the JVC seems to have slightly less pop, but after calibration (especially gamma cal), the pop improved and was about the same as the Mits.

The JVC has a much better lens than the Mits. So even though the Mits is a single chip DLP, the focus uniformity of the lens was not good. On the JVC, the focus uniformity was excellent. Convergence was pretty good...only the blue was off a bit, but I shifted the blue a whole pixel and it was better than the non-shift. Overall I got the best of the Mits and the best of the DLP in one.

Now, I know the Mits HC3800 isn't a top line DLP, but my JVC is a 2014 model. JVC's have been getting sharper and pop'per over the years, and that's no exception for the JVC models newer than mine. They also have way more firepower/lumens, which is a big part of that 'pop' too.

The contrast advantage isn't just for dark scenes. Mixed scenes benefit---have more pop due to it. And a huge native on/off contrast is not negated by less ansi contrast of a JVC. There are many articles and threads here about how on a projector, a 600:1 ansi, 3000:1 native is blown away by a 300:1 ansi, 30,000+ native projector ---even on mixed scenes.

I have the darbee too and the JVC benefits greatly from it. JVC's have full motorized lens control and lens memory and mine has an auto lens cover.

The Sharp Z30k seems to be a really nice PJ. I bought my JVC used, but thought about a used higher end DLP with DI like yours. I knew it would be an improvement over my Mits (which has no iris..manual or DI), but ultimately went JVC due to my love of sci fi. Even so, most movies (not just sci fi) have lots of dark scenes, so those blacks and contrasts really come through.

Now that I've gone black, I can't go back Unless there's some major development in DLP tech, I can guarantee that my next PJ upgrade---a few years down the road, will be a JVC.
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post #5189 of 5193 Old 12-01-2019, 10:01 AM
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My main point (perhaps lost in my ramblings), is that the early LCOS or JVC's did indeed have less pop/sharpness in comparison to DLP's. But JVC's have improved on that in every new model, to the point that now the new 4K ones have immense pop/sharpness (some of the best lenses)--they would certainly blow away my Mits DLP in that dept. It seems to come to the point that the new JVC's in comparison to a new top line DLP (of the same cost), the pop/sharpness isn't really the talking point anymore. A certain top DLP might have a slight advantage while a different top DLP might even have slightly less pop/sharpness (due to a lesser lens).
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post #5190 of 5193 Old 12-01-2019, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post
My W5000 has now been in use for over 11 years!
I still haven't found a satisfying projector to be a successor for my W5K. Seems like development in DLP's have stopped after that. No real 4K for consumer unit and even those XPR models seem very basic cheap construction models with bad optics and so on. I've been considering JVC 4K DILA but I honestly would prefer high ansi contrast from DLP and there are serious placement issues with JVC as it is so much deeper than my current BenQ.
I've been desperately even thinking about getting either 77" OLED or 85" LCD TV but it is really hard to give up that extra size (I have had 95" screen for past 20 years)…

Anyone else it facing the same dilemma?
My W5K still runs fine, so I'm not in a rush other than there are nice TV offers during BF sales… Also because my PJ is already over 11 years old I realize the fact it may die any day, but that's what I have been predicting for the past 5 year already.

I bet there are a lot of us long term W5000 owners still running it to this day BL. Many of us bought it back in the same time frame as mine is also over 11 years old, and have not been able to pull the trigger on anything new in PJ land. I have LG OLED sets I have added, and maybe someday we will get an Oled display that is at least 100" and can afford it Its fun to see this thread still chugging along from time to time, brings back great memories as that is when HD DVD and BD were happening at the same time.
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