BenQ W 5000 little Test - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 5193 Old 01-01-2008, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilmour View Post

Know you of another better projector for 1900€ ?

I can only think of this one - probably the bargain of the year...
http://www.laskys.com/tv_and_dvd/pro..._xvz21000.html
Just be careful of throw etc as the Sharp isn't the most flexible.
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post #122 of 5193 Old 01-01-2008, 12:09 PM
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Too bad they don't ship to Canada or the U.S.

Wayne
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post #123 of 5193 Old 01-01-2008, 12:36 PM
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Yes, the Sharp XVZ21000 is a good option for this money, but I believe that the Benq continues being better by the Reon chip and lamp Vidi off Philips.
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post #124 of 5193 Old 01-01-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie_Mike View Post

Yes but reading that the W10000 & W9000 can do 24p I guess BenQ should be able to fix this issue.

True is that having this kind of problem with a new pr. is kind of lame

Hi Mike,

sorry but the W9000 does have the same 24p bug as the W5000. Only the W10000 seems to work properly.

@clehner: Can u confirm this?
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post #125 of 5193 Old 01-03-2008, 08:31 AM
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How is it that companies are STILL screwing up this feature? Did BenQ not learn from the W9000 and felt the need to perpetuate it in the W5000?
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post #126 of 5193 Old 01-03-2008, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joflash View Post

Hi Mike,

sorry but the W9000 does have the same 24p bug as the W5000. Only the W10000 seems to work properly.

@clehner: Can u confirm this?

I noticed, that Kris Deering wrote (if I understood him correct), that the W10000 not only works correctly with 24p, but his wording might also be understood as meaning, that the W10000 displays something like 1080p48 when fed with a 24p Signal. My W9000 with latest firmware from July 2007 doesn't do that, but displays "1080p24". At the same time the W9000 service menu has a position to change the flash display between "W9000" and "W10000". This suggests, that both PJs have the same firmware. I'm a bit confused

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post #127 of 5193 Old 01-03-2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuebler View Post

I'm a bit confused

But how can you be uncertain: Does your W9k process 24p or does it convert it internally to 60Hz?? This is very easy to spot...

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post #128 of 5193 Old 01-03-2008, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joflash View Post

Hi Mike,

sorry but the W9000 does have the same 24p bug as the W5000. Only the W10000 seems to work properly.

@clehner: Can u confirm this?

No it doesn't. I already performed some of the tests for 1080p/24 and it passed but if you have another test please explain and I will test it again.
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post #129 of 5193 Old 01-03-2008, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clehner View Post

But how can you be uncertain: Does your W9k process 24p or does it convert it internally to 60Hz?? This is very easy to spot...

How can I say, if I don't have a comparison? If converting to 60 Hz would show up in form of something dramatically bad (which appears not to be the case), then it does process 24p...

But how can I be certain? And the number of questions here in this forum and at other places points to more people having this uncertainty... Of course a pure layman's problem

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post #130 of 5193 Old 01-03-2008, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuebler View Post

But how can I be certain? And the number of questions here in this forum and at other places points to more people having this uncertainty... Of course a pure layman's problem

But you do know what 50Hz PAL looks like wrt motion flow, don't you? Can't you compare it to that? Also, do you have an NTSC-DVD, look what motion looks like there, then you know what 3:2 studders look like. It is not that difficult.

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post #131 of 5193 Old 01-03-2008, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clehner View Post

But you do know what 50Hz PAL looks like wrt motion flow, don't you? Can't you compare it to that? Also, do you have an NTSC-DVD, look what motion looks like there, then you know what 3:2 studders look like. It is not that difficult.

No, I don't have an NTSC-DVD. Yes, sometimes - but quite rarely - I notice serious motion judder when watching TV (576i scaled to 1080i and then deinterlaced by the W9000). But I have neither systematic nor professional knowledge and judgement about how motion should really look, and I guess that with regard to that I'm not singled out here in the community (probably that's the reason for the endless discussions).

Yes, I assume that the W9000 behaves correct or at least well when watching BR discs via the PS3, and if I see any motion artefacts then they are very modest. But again, some here discuss some sort of "micro judder", and not understanding the matter professionally makes it impossible for me to judge whether they talk vodoo or not

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post #132 of 5193 Old 01-12-2008, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

and you think benq support know what they talk

fact is the w 5000 takes 24p from the sony bd player the pionieer bd player and the ps3 in 24p force but not displays it.
this issure is very common at lcd flat panel displays and also some
pr. have it.
wait for the new febr. issue from audio vision that is a very reliable
magazine in germany.
the also not found all the time 20000:1 cr.
when the pr. have max 8000:1 like "some" webpages

Hello Wolfgang,
did you by any chance manage to get your hands on February's "Audio Vision"?

Carpe Diem
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post #133 of 5193 Old 01-12-2008, 04:00 AM
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According to a post on the Spanish site mundodvd, at least one user seems to have purchsed the W5000 and is going to bring it to a meeting next week.

Any more info on availability or anyone seen more of the unit in action (or the Mistubishi version). I'm looking for an upgrade over my current Optoma HD73 on a 110" screen.
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post #134 of 5193 Old 01-12-2008, 04:12 AM
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You go through all these pages of cluttered hype (and lost-in-the-forest theory) and it turns out the projector is just another Benq turkey.
Instead just give me one decent professional review of a projector with new technology.
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post #135 of 5193 Old 01-13-2008, 03:21 AM
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Hello!

I´m testing now, the software calibration tool developed in the french forum, HCFR, using the same Spyder 2 sensor that we use with Colorfacts.

I´ve had several problems with the instalation, because the awful focal distance of this baby. I think that is a nonsense, mount a lens with this very long throw lens distance for a domestic use. I need almost 18 feet to obtain a mere 106" diagonal screen

Well, in the next few days I´ll do a complete calibration and I´ll test the image quality and other features, but at least, here you have the first measures and charts, leaving the projector with defaults settings. The brilliant color is Off. The Dynamic Iris is On. The gamma selected is 2.2, (with dynamic Iris On the gamma results is less than 1.5 but is not real) that is absolutely perfect with no deviations (2.21) of the standard 2.2, within my mesaures with Dynamic Iris in Off position. With the gamma setpoint in 2.4 the gamma read is absolutely perfect too, with a middle value of exactly 2.41.
The On Off Contrast with Dynamic Iris in On Position and the manual Iris fully closed is about 10.600:1, after take at least 10 different measurements. (one each time I read the grayscale tracking to do the calibration)

With a 1080p/50 signal, In the service menu options, I have, speed wheel 3x/50hz., Color wheel sequence 1, lamp waveform 4, brilliant color disabled and lamp Sync delay +700. I need that someone send me the password to enter in the ISF menu to modifie the gamma values of each color if it is necessary.

I have a solid black level and a great luminosity, in my 106" video spectra (1.5 gain)screen, even with manual Iris fully closed.

I´m very dissapointed with the Reon HQV processor that I´ve too in my Onkyo 905 receiver, because the "mosquito noise" is very clear with standard definition DVD movies from my HTPC, and absolutely inadmisible in some of them, like Zodiac for example.

With HD movies in Blu Ray (I´ve got a US Panasonic BD-30 player) I´m very dissapointed too, because the panny doesn´t have a forced mode to obtain 1080p/24, and the Benq W5000 doesnt accept the 24p signal, forcing the player to output the HD signal in 1080p/60. Absolutey no video noise with HD movies, (Die Hard 4.0, Hairspray, etc.) but I remember my old W9000 more sharp than this.

Well, here you have the graphics. (Remember that are taken before calibration, with default settings) The saturation of primaries is almost perfect. I like those machines for the possibility of adjust the primaries and secondaries, but if the engineers make his job well, is yet better.

The normal mode color temperature is very "cool" and surpases the 8000ºK value. With the warm mode, we have values between 6500 and 6800 in all the gray scale, very close to the D65 point with a delta deviation inferior to 8 from 20 to 100 IRE







Un saludo, Javier G.
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post #136 of 5193 Old 01-13-2008, 03:36 AM
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Javier,

What was the brightness you achieved to get that contrast ratio?
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post #137 of 5193 Old 01-13-2008, 04:41 AM
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I don´t know if the units are foot lamberts or candles, but in one of the measurement that I´ve saved, the measure of black level is 0.019 and the value of the peak white (100 IRE pattern) is 197.45. The final result is a Full On/Off contrast of 10392:1

Un saludo, Javier G.
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post #138 of 5193 Old 01-13-2008, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javierg View Post

I don´t know if the units are foot lamberts or candles, but in one of the measurement that I´ve saved, the measure of black level is 0.019 and the value of the peak white (100 IRE pattern) is 197.45. The final result is a Full On/Off contrast of 10392:1

Un saludo, Javier G.

Once you unpack your measuring equipment again, I would be grateful in hearing the maximum (manual iris open, lamp maximum) lumen number at about D65, so a lux number with your screen diameters would be sufficient.

Falk Kuebler
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post #139 of 5193 Old 01-13-2008, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Headroom View Post

Hello Wolfgang,
did you by any chance manage to get your hands on February's "Audio Vision"?

yes i have it but no test was inside.

may the reason is the missing 24p support and benq will wait ontill the have
it because otherwise they will get a big minus.

i will call the guy that make all the tests there and try to find out.
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post #140 of 5193 Old 01-13-2008, 08:42 AM
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Javier, do you have another sensor other than the Spyder 2? That sensor is not the best for accurate data. See this Sensor comparison thread for data. Although it comes from a plasma, we have found the error equally on other display types.

Saludos tambien.
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post #141 of 5193 Old 01-13-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

yes i have it but no test was inside.

may the reason is the missing 24p support and benq will wait ontill the have
it because otherwise they will get a big minus.

i will call the guy that make all the tests there and try to find out.

That would be great!

Carpe Diem
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post #142 of 5193 Old 01-13-2008, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javierg View Post

I don´t know if the units are foot lamberts or candles, but in one of the measurement that I´ve saved, the measure of black level is 0.019 and the value of the peak white (100 IRE pattern) is 197.45. The final result is a Full On/Off contrast of 10392:1

Un saludo, Javier G.

That was with the IRIS closed right? That's almost as bright as my IN76, and about 8x the CR, this is very interesting

And the CR of ~10000:1 was with Dynamic Black on right?
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post #143 of 5193 Old 01-14-2008, 11:59 AM
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javierg, did you really need 18 feet to throw a 106 inch (16x9 I assume) diagonal? According to the Benq projection calculator you should only need 14.2 feet. If the throw is really that long they are crazy.
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post #144 of 5193 Old 01-14-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javierg View Post

I´m very dissapointed with the Reon HQV processor that I´ve too in my Onkyo 905 receiver, because the "mosquito noise" is very clear with standard definition DVD movies from my HTPC, and absolutely inadmisible in some of them, like Zodiac for example.

So your Receiver has HQV processing? I'm just trying to clarify here if it's the BenQ or your Onkyo that's let you down.

Any reason to suspect the W20000 would be a significant improvement over the W5000, if it's the BenQ you're disappointed with?
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post #145 of 5193 Old 01-14-2008, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuebler View Post

Once you unpack your measuring equipment again, I would be grateful in hearing the maximum (manual iris open, lamp maximum) lumen number at about D65, so a lux number with your screen diameters would be sufficient.

With Lamp at maximun (normal position) in all the measures, and taking the image directly to the sensor, (not reflected by the screen), the results are:

Iris fully Closed & Dynamic Black On: BL 0.019 WL 199.2 CR:10484:1
Iris fully Closed & Dynamic Black Off: BL 0.238 WL 187.5 CR: 787:1
Iris Fully Open & Dynamic Black On: BL 0.126 WL 334.3 CR: 2653:1
Iris Fully Open & Dynamic Black Off: BL 0.520 WL 328.1 CR: 630:1

In the next few days, I want to do the same measurements but with the minimun lamp power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic View Post

Javier, do you have another sensor other than the Spyder 2? That sensor is not the best for accurate data. See this Sensor comparison thread for data. Although it comes from a plasma, we have found the error equally on other display types.

Saludos tambien.

I have not other sensor, but I´ve a very close friend with the latest version of Colorfacts and at least 4 diferent tristimulus and sensors. He will come to my house during the next month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

That was with the IRIS closed right? That's almost as bright as my IN76, and about 8x the CR, this is very interesting

And the CR of ~10000:1 was with Dynamic Black on right?

I don´t like very much the implementation of dynamic Iris in this machine, because the native CR (no dynamic) with the manual Iris fully closed is awful. I hope that, with the minimum lamp power the things become better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by f300v10 View Post

javierg, did you really need 18 feet to throw a 106 inch (16x9 I assume) diagonal? According to the Benq projection calculator you should only need 14.2 feet. If the throw is really that long they are crazy.

I´m sorry for the mistake. (metric to english units conversion) Really the minimun distance to obtain a 106" diagonal screen in 16:9 format is 14.19 feet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chdude3 View Post

So your Receiver has HQV processing? I'm just trying to clarify here if it's the BenQ or your Onkyo that's let you down.

Any reason to suspect the W20000 would be a significant improvement over the W5000, if it's the BenQ you're disappointed with?

In the Benq menu I have not any possibilitie to reduce the mosquito noise. (even in the service menu I can´t find it)

In the receiver´s user menu, you have got it, with four diferents steps from Off to maximum. I can´t resolve the problem in any case.

The diference between W5000 and W20000 could be the same, that you can find between W9000 and W10000. IMHO I think that is the same projector with different DMD chip.

Un saludo, Javier G.
P.D. Sorry for my english
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post #146 of 5193 Old 01-14-2008, 05:44 PM
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That's a pretty abysmal native contrast ratio, especially for DLP.
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post #147 of 5193 Old 01-15-2008, 02:11 AM
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¿ Pretty abysmal native contrast ratio? The Dynamic black option, enable a second Iris that works dynamically, closing the light path in dark scenes and opening it in brightness scenes, so the native CR is only 787:1.
The >10000:1 value, is a "performed" CR, but not native.

Un saludo, Javier G.
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post #148 of 5193 Old 01-15-2008, 04:50 AM
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That was my point. With the dynamic iris off the black level is awfully high and the native CR is 787:1.

That native contrast is the sort of number not very good LCD projectors produced two years ago.

If correct, it explains why people are saying that the Epson produces better blacks and contrast.

I was really looking forward to a projector that combined DLP blacks and contrast with a good iris, but this is very disappointing if correct.
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post #149 of 5193 Old 01-15-2008, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dodds View Post

That was my point. With the dynamic iris off the black level is awfully high and the native CR is 787:1.

That native contrast is the sort of number not very good LCD projectors produced two years ago.

I think you are hitting the nail on the head. This pj performs very much like a LCD-projector but you get all the nasty artefacts of a 1-chip DLP. However, the thread was initiated because the price is/was nice

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post #150 of 5193 Old 01-15-2008, 07:27 AM
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I had really been looking forward to the W5000. Does anyone know if the Optoma HD80 wpould perform better than the W5000?
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