cox cable 4K ?? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 03-08-2015, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
gbal4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: arkansas
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 11
cox cable 4K ??

Hello does anyone know when Cox Cable will have 4K programming ??
gbal4 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 03-08-2015, 09:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
domino92024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbal4 View Post
Hello does anyone know when Cox Cable will have 4K programming ??
Not soon. I have heard of no programmers that plan 4K. Plus, are any of Cox's STBs 4K? [no]
domino92024 is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 03-10-2015, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
gbal4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: arkansas
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post
Not soon. I have heard of no programmers that plan 4K. Plus, are any of Cox's STBs 4K? [no]
Direct Tv has 4k programming for 2015 so I guess I will switch to Direct Tv ....they also have NFL sunday Ticket ...thats a big PLUS for me !!
gbal4 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 Old 03-10-2015, 09:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
domino92024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbal4 View Post
Direct Tv has 4k programming for 2015 so I guess I will switch to Direct Tv ....they also have NFL sunday Ticket ...thats a big PLUS for me !!

What channels will DirecTV have in 4K?
domino92024 is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 03-11-2015, 06:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
John Mason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 11,139
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Here's a publication specializing in UHDTV production/potential broadcasting. -- John
John Mason is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 03-11-2015, 03:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
egnlsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taylorsville, UT
Posts: 2,665
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Unfortunately, there isn't that much 4K programming available to begin with. Netflix has a few series and a few movies. Amazon Prime seems to have the most 4K content out there.

All of DirecTV's OnDemand stuff (not their scheduled PPV movies and events) is delivered via the internet, not through their satellite signals.

Before switching service providers, weigh everything, not just who has the most 4K content.

CIAO!

Ed N.
egnlsn is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 03-11-2015, 09:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
domino92024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,596
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post
Here's a publication specializing in UHDTV production/potential broadcasting. -- John

That's what I thought. Still in the "Discussions are under way with several broadcasters for final distribution of the series" stage.


Thanks.
domino92024 is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 03-16-2015, 07:30 AM
Member
 
mexican-bum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by egnlsn View Post
All of DirecTV's OnDemand stuff (not their scheduled PPV movies and events) is delivered via the internet, not through their satellite signals.


Not true for the 4K content, it is delivered via satellite signal, but the current receiver software can't grab a whole 4k signal right now, so they send via satellite the 4k video in a satellite download.

The directv Genie DVR has 5 independent tuners, rumor has it it will need 2 tuners simultaneously to watch live 4k once available due to its massive bandwidth.
mexican-bum is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 03-16-2015, 08:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
egnlsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taylorsville, UT
Posts: 2,665
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 66
I guess I stand corrected...

CIAO!

Ed N.
egnlsn is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 03-17-2015, 04:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sneals2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 7,869
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Liked: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican-bum View Post
The directv Genie DVR has 5 independent tuners, rumor has it it will need 2 tuners simultaneously to watch live 4k once available due to its massive bandwidth.
That's a very odd rumour. I'm happily tuning a DVB-S2 HEVC 4K test broadcast from Astra at 28.2E in the UK with TBS PCI-E and Technisat USB DVB-S2 transponders. Similarly my Sony UHD TV set, which has integrated DVB-S2 tuners, is also tuning the Astra UHD tests with no problems. That's live-to-air UHD (aka 4K) in HEVC.

Unless DirecTV are going to be using a new version of DVB-S2 like S2X then the bandwidth of the transponder is unlikely to change. The video data rate may well be higher than before but nothing mad that a current S2 demod and demux can't handle - unless the DirecTV stuff is very shonky.

I guess you could be in a situation where the Genie can't use all 5 tuners simultaneously to record because the disk bandwidth would be too high to record 5 x UHD streams rather than 5 x HD streams - so rather than it needing 2 tuners, it just stops one being used when another is tuning 4K to limit disk bandwidth?

For info - the BBC UHD tests (which were OTA using DVB-T2 rather than DVB-S2 over satellite) over the summer last year for the World Cup and Commonwealth Games used HEVC at 2160/59.94p and 2160/50p at around 38Mbs. The Astra test broadcasts are at around 20Mbs. I expect a formal service will be somewhere in between?

When H264 1080/50i broadcasts started in Europe around 2006, it wasn't uncommon for them to use 16-18Mbs for an HD signal - so the bandwidth used for UHD HEVC isn't that massive...

When did the Genie launch? It must have been recently if it included HEVC / H265 hardware decoding for 4K reception.
sneals2000 is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 03-17-2015, 06:31 AM
Member
 
mexican-bum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post
That's a very odd rumour. I'm happily tuning a DVB-S2 HEVC 4K test broadcast from Astra at 28.2E in the UK with TBS PCI-E and Technisat USB DVB-S2 transponders. Similarly my Sony UHD TV set, which has integrated DVB-S2 tuners, is also tuning the Astra UHD tests with no problems. That's live-to-air UHD (aka 4K) in HEVC.

Unless DirecTV are going to be using a new version of DVB-S2 like S2X then the bandwidth of the transponder is unlikely to change. The video data rate may well be higher than before but nothing mad that a current S2 demod and demux can't handle - unless the DirecTV stuff is very shonky.

I guess you could be in a situation where the Genie can't use all 5 tuners simultaneously to record because the disk bandwidth would be too high to record 5 x UHD streams rather than 5 x HD streams - so rather than it needing 2 tuners, it just stops one being used when another is tuning 4K to limit disk bandwidth?

For info - the BBC UHD tests (which were OTA using DVB-T2 rather than DVB-S2 over satellite) over the summer last year for the World Cup and Commonwealth Games used HEVC at 2160/59.94p and 2160/50p at around 38Mbs. The Astra test broadcasts are at around 20Mbs. I expect a formal service will be somewhere in between?

When H264 1080/50i broadcasts started in Europe around 2006, it wasn't uncommon for them to use 16-18Mbs for an HD signal - so the bandwidth used for UHD HEVC isn't that massive...

When did the Genie launch? It must have been recently if it included HEVC / H265 hardware decoding for 4K reception.
I honestly don't know where that rumor started, or if it is true. It possibly could be a limitation of directv's SWM(single wire multiswitch) system which allows up to 13 tuners on a single cable.

The most current HR44 genie does not decoded H265, only H264
mexican-bum is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 03-17-2015, 06:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sneals2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 7,869
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Liked: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican-bum View Post
I honestly don't know where that rumor started, or if it is true. It possibly could be a limitation of directv's SWM(single wire multiswitch) system which allows up to 13 tuners on a single cable.
Odd - AIUI SWM is similar to the European SCR system, which just transposes a specific transponder to a specific IF slot (one IF slot dedicated to each tuner - to avoid the issues with polarisation and band clash that would otherwise be the case with a conventional LNB) so shouldn't offer a bandwith limitation. The RF transponder config for UHD vs HD is the same - it demodulates to a transport stream in the same way. The difference is once the demodulated transport stream is processed - as it contains a UHD rather than HD or SD video stream, and is usually in HEVC/H265 rather than AVC/H264 or MPEG2/H262 format. The RF sent down the cable to the tuner is essentially the same - it's a transponder's worth of RF.

Quote:
The most current HR44 genie does not decoded H265, only H264
Nobody in their right mind would be doing UHD using H264 - and if the decoders weren't 4K compatible you'd be stuck with 1080i or 1080p (depending on H264 supported level). I very much doubt the HR44 would have the capability to stitch 4 x 1920x1080/60p H264 streams together, which is the other way UHD has been distributed via satellite (either for contribution or because there weren't suitable 2160p encoders available - which there now are)
sneals2000 is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 03-17-2015, 06:46 AM
Member
 
mexican-bum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post
Odd - AIUI SWM is similar to the European SCR system, which just transposes a specific transponder to a specific IF slot (one IF slot dedicated to each tuner - to avoid the issues with polarisation and band clash that would otherwise be the case with a conventional LNB) so shouldn't offer a bandwith limitation. The RF transponder config for UHD vs HD is the same - it demodulates to a transport stream in the same way. The difference is once the demodulated transport stream is processed - as it contains a UHD rather than HD or SD video stream, and is usually in HEVC/H265 rather than AVC/H264 or MPEG2/H262 format. The RF sent down the cable to the tuner is essentially the same - it's a transponder's worth of RF.



Nobody in their right mind would be doing UHD using H264 - and if the decoders weren't 4K compatible you'd be stuck with 1080i or 1080p (depending on H264 supported level). I very much doubt the HR44 would have the capability to stitch 4 x 1920x1080/60p H264 streams together, which is the other way UHD has been distributed via satellite (either for contribution or because there weren't suitable 2160p encoders available - which there now are)
LOL! well directv is going to try apparently.
mexican-bum is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 03-17-2015, 06:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sneals2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 7,869
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Liked: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican-bum View Post
LOL! well directv is going to try apparently.
Interesting. 3840x2160 @ 60p is H264 Level 5.2 and requires HDMI 2.0 for 2160/60p output (can be implemented within HDMI 1.4 bandwith but to do so requires 4:2:0 over HDMI which was added as part of the HDMI 2.0 spec. Some HDMI 1.4 hardware may be driver upgradeable - nVidia video cards are)

You could do 3840x2160 @ 30p or below with Level 5.1 and that can output in 4:2:2 (and 4:4:4?) via HDMI 1,4 outputs - but sport at 30p is horrid.

(Current UK HD receivers are Level 4.0 - so capable of 720/60p, 1080/60i or 1080/30p - though our satellite systems are all dual-tuner not more)

I wonder if they are going to do some insane hack which uses two tuners - though syncing them, merging them and outputting them would have required a lot of forward thinking.

Much more sensible to swap out receivers for H265 compatible models for those signing up for 4K content, to allow more efficient H265 encoding to be used.

It's interesting that European UHD sets are already shipping with integrated H265-compatible DVB-S2/DVB-T2 tuners. (And include conditional access - for some platform - and USB recording functionality)

Last edited by sneals2000; 03-17-2015 at 07:03 AM.
sneals2000 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply HDTV Technical

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off