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post #1801 of 2041 Old 05-27-2019, 11:51 AM
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The ads for other HBO shows which are before the shows can be fast forwarded through.

And the controls are pretty responsive in HBO Go.

So no biggie with those.
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post #1802 of 2041 Old 05-27-2019, 03:28 PM
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Paid ads or house ads? I've seen a lot of house ads on Prime, but not paid ads. HBO does house ads too, and they are in an entirely different category.
I don't even consider those "house ads" as ads. I think of them as previews and I like them. But then I always enjoyed watching the preview trailers at the movie theater too.
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post #1803 of 2041 Old 05-28-2019, 07:16 AM
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It's like I've said to people, there are active users of OTA and OTA dvr's, and then, as you pointed out there are the people who have OTA and rarely use it. The people sinking money into ATSC 3.0 OTA need to hope for the former, there is no money in the later.
Thing is, as I pointed out: What DRM will do, I believe, is drive away a goodly portion of the very people they need to keep.

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Paid ads or house ads? I've seen a lot of house ads on Prime, but not paid ads. HBO does house ads too, and they are in an entirely different category.
That's all I've seen. If AP starts littering with adverts stuff for which we're paying, it'll be hasta la bye-bye on our part.

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I don't even consider those "house ads" as ads. I think of them as previews and I like them. But then I always enjoyed watching the preview trailers at the movie theater too.
Same. In fact one of those led us to watching something we otherwise probably would not have. (Hanna. We quite liked it.)
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post #1804 of 2041 Old 05-28-2019, 09:10 AM
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Thing is, as I pointed out: What DRM will do, I believe, is drive away a goodly portion of the very people they need to keep.
That depends on how you define "goodly portion." There seem to be just enough OTA-only users for TiVo to make a profit off of their OTA models along with a scant few other manufacturers. Pretty sure if you fraction that out.. it's not terribly big. And it's not anywhere close to being a majority of OTA-only viewers and an even smaller percentage of viewers who watch local stations across all platforms. (Honestly, I'd hazard a guess most time-shifting done by non-cable-subscribing viewers is done with streaming, not stand-alone DVRs, and those who use DVRs don't always skip the ads. Point being, unskippable ads is something the pubic is accustomed to)

Now, take that portion and divide again by those likely to have access to ATSC 3.0 in the next five years and divide again by those likely to shell out for a new DVR that might receive a fifth of the available channels in a lit-up market. Now you're down to an insignificant number that's likely to remain that small until a station sunsets ATSC 1.0, 7-10 years down the road at least. Far later in many markets if at all.

It does seem as if TiVo and maybe others will include 3.0 functionality in future models just to remain future-proof, but that's still a small number. People ain't gonna change out their TiVos until they fail. (AVS members notwithstanding)

So, that "goodly number" isn't going to be goodly for a very long time. Given current trends, who knows what the television landscape will look like, by then.

I still say the potential of targeted advertising and mobile reception is being used as a ploy to prop up stock prices. Neither will do much to drive adoption, not when mobile live and on-demand viewing is already readily available and will be even easier with 5G and whatever comes after it.
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post #1805 of 2041 Old 05-28-2019, 03:47 PM
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That's all I've seen. If AP starts littering with adverts stuff for which we're paying, it'll be hasta la bye-bye on our part.
Oh ok, I don't really consider house ads to be ads, as HBO has done them for years.

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There seem to be just enough OTA-only users for TiVo to make a profit off of their OTA models along with a scant few other manufacturers. Pretty sure if you fraction that out.. it's not terribly big. And it's not anywhere close to being a majority of OTA-only viewers and an even smaller percentage of viewers who watch local stations across all platforms.
If I were to bet, I'd put my money on Amazon, Tablo, or other similar companies, not TiVo. TiVo is very slow moving, and slow to innovate or even keep pace. I love my Roamio OTA, but I'm not holding my breath on a new ATSC 3.0 TiVo.

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I still say the potential of targeted advertising and mobile reception is being used as a ploy to prop up stock prices. Neither will do much to drive adoption, not when mobile live and on-demand viewing is already readily available and will be even easier with 5G and whatever comes after it.
Agreed. I think the whole mobile viewing thing is sort of silly, and might have been a big deal if ATSC 1.0 had done it before 4G LTE, but I think the ship has sailed on that now. From all I can tell, broadcast channels don't have a very bright future. I don't think they will outright disappear, but with quality going downhill, viewership going down, and cord cutting, it's not looking good for them.
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Here’s something I saw on Hulu that could well be a low-intensity advertising niche in a 3.0 environment. Hitting pause during a program loads the typical metadata, plus a topical ad.


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post #1807 of 2041 Old 05-28-2019, 10:54 PM
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Here’s something I saw on Hulu that could well be a low-intensity advertising niche in a 3.0 environment. Hitting pause during a program loads the typical metadata, plus a topical ad.
Yep, I had read that Hulu was going to start doing that. In all sorts of ways, I think Hulu represents the future of TV: the blending of on-demand and live sources into one UI; the merging of established Hollywood media giants and new tech; the choice between forced targeted ads for a lower price or ad-free at a higher price; the introduction of new kinds of ad presentations, such as pause screen ads and interactive ads; the option to add other subscription sources (e.g. Showtime, Starz, etc.) into the same UI. Netflix gets the most attention but in a lot of important ways, I think Hulu has pointed the way forward for how TV will generally work in the 2020s.
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post #1808 of 2041 Old 05-31-2019, 06:21 AM
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Next Gen TV
FOX Television Stations Becomes First O&O Station Group to Join AWARN Alliance
PRNewswire - May 30, 2019

FOX Television Stations has joined the Advanced Warning and Response Network (AWARN) Alliance, becoming the first major television O&O member of the coalition.

The Alliance is a coalition of commercial and public broadcasters, consumer electronics makers, tech companies, and trade associations that is developing a voluntary advanced emergency messaging capability using ATSC 3.0. It represents a voluntary public-private partnership for using Next Generation Television to provide a powerful new service for public safety.

"Our stations are dedicated to serving their communities, and nothing is more important than giving people the information they need to stay safe in emergencies. We support the Alliance's broader mission to develop a framework for providing emergency information beyond the initial alert. ATSC 3.0 will enable FOX Television Stations to use its local news assets as never before, and we are happy to add our voice to that initiative," said Richard Friedel, Executive Vice President of Engineering, Operations and Technology.

"On behalf of our whole coalition, I am very happy to welcome FOX as the first O&O group to join the AWARN Alliance," said John Lawson, executive director of the AWARN Alliance.

"This really adds to our momentum. Combined with their reach and expertise, FOX has the leadership and vision to make a positive and lasting impact with us. Along with their commitment to ATSC 3.0, FOX's support of AWARN means recognition of the power of this technology to serve their communities at a whole new level," Lawson said.

AWARN will be launching roundtable discussions with TV news thought leaders in the months ahead. The goal is development of a voluntary framework for packaging a TV station's news assets and using ATSC 3.0 to engage with viewers as their trusted information source across multiple devices.

About FOX Television Stations
FOX Television Stations owns and operates 28 full power broadcast television stations in the U.S. These include stations located in nine of the top ten largest designated market areas (DMAs), and duopolies in 11 DMAs, including the three largest DMAs (New York, Los Angeles and Chicago). Of these stations, 17 are affiliated with the FOX Network. In addition to distributing sports, entertainment and syndicated content, our television stations collectively produce nearly 1,000 hours of local news every week. These stations leverage viewer, distributor and advertiser demand for the FOX Network's national content.

AWARN Alliance
The Advanced Warning and Response Network (AWARN) Alliance is a cross-industry, international coalition formed to create the world's most advanced emergency messaging system. Members include commercial and public broadcasters who reach 90 percent of U.S. households, consumer technology makers, and B2B tech companies. AWARN is based on the Next Generation Television transmission standard (ATSC 3.0), which the FCC has approved for voluntary use by broadcasters. When fully deployed, AWARN can deliver geo-targeted, rich-media alerts to an unlimited number of enabled TVs, connected cars, and handheld devices even when cellular fails or the grid is down.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fox-t...163000094.html

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post #1809 of 2041 Old 05-31-2019, 06:29 AM
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SFNs
Public Media Group unveils strategies to build a public-private Next Gen TV network
By By Scott Fybush, Freelance Contributor - Current - May 29, 2019

With roots in two established pubmedia service providers, Public Media Group has launched as a new platform to help both public and commercial TV stations manage the complex transition to ATSC 3.0 and the Next Gen TV platforms it promises to create.

The new venture, announced Wednesday at the 2019 Next Gen TV Broadcast Conference in Washington, D.C., will grow in three phases, said CEO Joe Chinnici. It will start by developing a nationwide web of single-frequency network (SFN) transmission systems for ATSC 3.0 digital TV, then focus on next-generation broadcast and data-center technology. In the third phase, the group will develop a system of renewable energy to power the technology infrastructure created during the first two phases.

PMG is affiliated with the Public Media Venture Group, a partnership of more than 30 public television stations and networks working on technology and business models for ATSC 3.0. PVMG was incubated by the nonprofit consultancy Public Media Co. until April, when PMC announced the ventures group was spinning off as an independent nonprofit. PMG is organized as a for-profit public benefit company.

PMG grew from conversations that began two years ago at Osborn Engineering, a consulting firm that assisted broadcasters with FCC technical work for clients that included all four major commercial networks, according to the company’s website. Osborn’s need for more ATSC 3.0 expertise led it to enlist Chinnici to assist clients under the Osborn Infrastructure banner. In 2018, Osborn Infrastructure began talking with the PMVG. Those conversations, which began at a PMVG summit last year, led to the creation of PMG as a separate entity.

Erik Langner, PMG’s president, joins the venture from Public Media Co.

SFNs from coast to coast

As it launches phase one, PMG is looking for both public and commercial partners to be part of SFN systems it hopes to build around the country.

“We see the SFN as the optimal way to deploy ATSC 3.0 so it maximizes value for the broadcasters and the audiences, to transmit data to as much of the audience as possible,” Langner said.

Unlike the traditional broadcast model in which stations build one tall tower, usually at a central spot in their market, SFNs add multiple lower-power transmitters at additional locations to help fill signal gaps or reach outlying areas that might have been too far from a station’s main signal or blocked by terrain.

PMG joins a crowded marketplace of ATSC 3.0 pioneers hoping to build consortia and lead the transition from the present ATSC 1.0 system. Unlike its competitors, which are led by large commercial TV players such as Sinclair, Chinnici said PMG aims to be “Switzerland” — operating as a neutral player without a bias toward either commercial or public partners.

In developing SFNs, “we feel we’re best positioned to approach each market and to design it for optimal use of all stakeholders, whether commercial, public or yet to be determined,” Chinnici said.

And unlike large commercial players Pearl TV and Spectrum Co., which are focusing their initial efforts on ATSC 3.0 rollouts in large TV markets as early as this fall, Chinnici said PMG is planning a true nationwide buildout.

PMG’s stakeholders range from broadcasters in large markets to those in tier-three and -four markets, including statewide networks, he said. “We have a very diverse stakeholder base interested in working with us, and that has attracted a number of commercial clients,” he said.

For many of those clients, Chinnici said, PMG hopes to help them transition their transmission expenses from the traditional capital-expenditure model, where local stations build or rebuild expensive high-power facilities once every few decades, to an operating-expenditure model, where PMG finances buildout of the transmission system and stations pay on an ongoing basis for access to the network.

“With limited resources [at the station level], is it better to compete in front of the camera or behind the camera?” Chinnici asked. “What we’re talking about is transmission as a service,” using PMG’s expertise to distribute their signals. Stations can focus their local efforts on content production and the new revenue opportunities that ATSC 3.0 promises.

As “Switzerland,” PMG promises to offer client stations an “ear to the ground” to help them identify some of those new revenue streams, but the company itself will leave those business deals to individual stations, letting them find clients for data distribution over the spectrum each will continue to control. This, too, differs from the plans announced by Pearl TV and Spectrum Co., which plan to pool commercial stations’ spectrum and sell data services in a more centralized fashion.

Next steps
PMG is launching with a group of 31 PVMG partners drawn from public media. Together they represent 117 stations that reach more than 230 million potential viewers. As the group seeks to expand its base of clients, Langner said he expects it will take seven to 15 years to build out a full nationwide infrastructure of SFN transmitters reaching as much of the country as possible.

As that network grows, PMG plans to leverage those partnerships to provide additional services to stations. With a background in digital technology as president and COO of BioStar Infrastructure, Chinnici envisions the next step as centralizing broadcast and data center technology, he said. This phase of development will ease the burden on local stations trying to keep up with fast-moving advances in both IT and digital broadcast technology.

In addition to controlling some of those technology costs, Chinnici hopes to bring some certainty to stations’ energy budgets by building out a network of renewable power to supply PMG members’ needs.

“If you’re a CFO, one of your biggest cost considerations is energy,” Chinnici said, “and we can provide that visibility for 15 or 20 years instead of on a spot-market basis,” offering stations a power-purchase agreement to make power costs a predictable budget item.

To make that a reality, PMG is looking for utility partners as well, with hopes to supply solar, wind and other renewable energy to customers.

For-profit with a mission
PMG is being formed as a “public benefit corporation,” a for-profit company that also has a responsibility to do more than deliver a maximum return to its investors.

“Although we have an obligation to investors, we also have an obligation to our stakeholders, which is the entire broadcast industry,” Chinnici said. “Part of our mission in serving those stakeholders is to do everything we can to provide new services in cooperation with broadcasters,” while operating in as transparent and neutral a manner as possible.

In addition to Chinnici and Langner, PMG’s leadership team also includes Eric Dausman, formerly with Osborn and San Francisco’s multiuser Sutro Tower, as SVP of RF technology, and PMVG’s Marc Hand, who will serve as chief strategy officer.

https://current.org/2019/05/public-m...en-tv-network/
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post #1810 of 2041 Old 05-31-2019, 06:33 AM
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ATSC 3.0
FCC starts churning ATSC 3.0 applications – slowly but surely
By Thomas Flanagan - RethinkResearch - May 30, 2019

Applications regarding the ATSC 3.0 broadcast standard began being processed by the FCC this week, while the commission also revealed it expects to complete the modification of its Licensing and Management System to accommodate next-gen TV applications for channel sharing stations by Q3 2019. But regardless of whether the FCC stamps the words “Accepted” or “Declined” on application forms, ATSC 3.0 hopefuls have bigger fish to worry about. The FCC has added a new step to the process intended to iron out the creases in the traditional broadcast licensing system, supposedly making the ATSC 3.0 licensing procedure easier. Many TV stations might therefore prefer to wait until later this year before these modifications to the FCC’s form 2100 are made.



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https://rethinkresearch.biz/articles...ly-but-surely/

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post #1811 of 2041 Old 05-31-2019, 12:01 PM
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I could not stand the Hulu plan with ads. While there were fewer commercials than from the broadcast version, it was s till way too many. Even if they paid me $100 a month, I still wouldn't watch their $6 plan. I have the $12 ad free plan. WHich doesn't have ads for 99% of the content. ANd the ones that do have an ad, is only a fifteen second spot at the beginning of the program.

Which I can deal with. But if it were a minute long of Ads, then I would be buying those few shows outright, instead of watching them on Hulu.
As stated you're not the average consumer. I'm not, and I still don't mind the ads for 3 reasons.

#1 ) The ads are only 90 seconds vs the 180 to 240! seconds for normal OTA and non-premium cable broadcasts.

#2 ) There are NO ads during movies. None. Hulu has a better non-Disney movie selection than Netflix. That is Hulu's best (or worst) kept secret.

#3 ) Older episodes and older shows often don't show ads. Some shows have no ads. Others do it like PBS and European TV by showing a block of ads at the beginning then continuing to show the entire episode without broadcasts.

Ad-free is not worth a 100% premium to me. It's also not worth $6/mo when all of the streaming services add up very quickly. Amazon and Netflix are $13/mo each. DC Universe is another $8. YouTube Red or whatever Google is calling it this week is $10/mo. Also, Hulu's 1080p mostly stereo isn't worth $12/mo vs. the 4K 5.1/Dolby Atmos offered by the other big two.

Back to the original topic of ATSC 3.0, does anyone think we will see 4K OTA linear broadcasts in the US within the next 5 years?
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post #1812 of 2041 Old 05-31-2019, 12:26 PM
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snip



Back to the original topic of ATSC 3.0, does anyone think we will see 4K OTA linear broadcasts in the US within the next 5 years?


Yes, but very limited, such as Olympics or Super Bowl.

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post #1813 of 2041 Old 05-31-2019, 01:08 PM
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Well, Hulu with forced ads and CBS:AA with forced ads are both $6 each per month to get on-demand access to primetime content -- not even including sports! -- from ABC, NBC, Fox and CBS. (And in a few years, NBC stuff will leave Hulu for NBCU's own competing service.)



Imagine if you could spend money on an external network-connected box with 2 ATSC 3.0 tuners in it, to feed live TV to any screen on your network. Let's say the up-front cost is $75. You don't pay anything for a 14-day program guide on your OTA channels because that's provided for free if you connect the box to the internet (and thereby opt into targeted ads). Buy a $50 1 TB USB hard drive (or use an old one lying around) and plug it into the box and, bam!, you've got free DVR service with no ongoing fees! Only catch, of course, is that you can't skip the ads on your recordings. (Perhaps the ad load when playing recordings is only 50-60% as much as when watching live TV, since the recordings always feature more lucrative targeted ads. This is the same way that Hulu works.)



So you're saving $12 or more each month by not subscribing to streaming services that would also force you to watch the ads. Your ATSC 3.0 tuner box pays for itself in just over half a year! And don't forget that it will also be able to record from smaller networks too, like Me-TV, COZI TV, etc., which aren't even available as streaming on-demand services at all.



OK, that's the best sales pitch I can come up with.
In that scenario I would just stop watching Broadcast content. I have no idea why most people like watching commercials, but I would rather spend those eighteen minutes per hour show doing something else. Although I have been time shifting my TV watching since 1984. And I have no desire to go back to watching TV like I did in the seventies, when I had no way to bypass the commercials.

If this DRM crap with no skippable commercials comes to pass, my days of watching broadcast content will be near an end. I'm sure I would pay outright for a some shows, like I do now, but it would be too expensive to do that for everything.

And in the end I would rather watch nothing, than be forced to watch even a few minutes of commercials per hour. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard bad.

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post #1814 of 2041 Old 05-31-2019, 01:37 PM
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In that scenario I would just stop watching Broadcast content. I have no idea why most people like watching commercials, but I would rather spend those eighteen minutes per hour show doing something else. Although I have been time shifting my TV watching since 1984. And I have no desire to go back to watching TV like I did in the seventies, when I had no way to bypass the commercials.

If this DRM crap with no skippable commercials comes to pass, my days of watching broadcast content will be near an end. I'm sure I would pay outright for a some shows, like I do now, but it would be too expensive to do that for everything.

And in the end I would rather watch nothing, than be forced to watch even a few minutes of commercials per hour. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard bad.
Geez, relax. No one is going to force you to watch ads. When it comes to on-demand viewing, you'll be able to pay more and avoid the ads, or pay less (or nothing at all) and watch the content with forced ads. That's the future of TV. It's your choice. (OK, local content -- news, weather, etc. -- might be an exception to this because I don't think anyone much would pay a premium to watch that stuff ad-free. So watching it with forced ads might be the only way to get it. Ads might eventually become local media's only source of income.)

And you may say that you're not going to watch "broadcast content" but you'll may still end up watching some of it ad-free on Hulu, CBS AA and/or whatever NBCU calls their upcoming SVOD.
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Geez, relax. No one is going to force you to watch ads. When it comes to on-demand viewing, you'll be able to pay more and avoid the ads, or pay less (or nothing at all) and watch the content with forced ads. That's the future of TV. It's your choice. (OK, local content -- news, weather, etc. -- might be an exception to this because I don't think anyone much would pay a premium to watch that stuff ad-free. So watching it with forced ads might be the only way to get it. Ads might eventually become local media's only source of income.)



And you may say that you're not going to watch "broadcast content" but you'll may still end up watching some of it ad-free on Hulu, CBS AA and/or whatever NBCU calls their upcoming SVOD.
Yes. As long as I can avoid commercials I will still watch it. I currently use Hulu Ad free, CBS AA commercial free, and Philo. And then some shows, like on the CW, I buy outright. Since none of the streaming services allow you to bypass all the commercials from CW shows for my area.

Me Using the streaming services all came about because of the terrible OTA video quality in the DC area now. And the terrible video quality FiOS has now too. If the HD video quality was like it was four or twelve or eighteen years ago, I would not be using any of the streaming sevices to watch broadcast content.(my HD OTA recordings from 2001 to 2004 and my FiOS HD recordings from 2007 to 2014 put to shame anything from OTA in DC or on FiOS now.)

So if ATSC 3.0 gets the video quality back to how it used to be, then I could see me droping the current streaming services I use for broadcast content. Well as long as I can still skip the commericals.

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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Yes. As long as I can avoid commercials I will still watch it. I currently use Hulu Ad free, CBS AA commercial free, and Philo. And then some shows, like on the CW, I buy outright. Since none of the streaming services allow you to bypass all the commercials from CW shows for my area.

Me Using the streaming services all came about because of the terrible OTA video quality in the DC area now. And the terrible video quality FiOS has now too. If the HD video quality was like it was four or twelve or eighteen years ago, I would not be using any of the streaming sevices to watch broadcast content.(my HD OTA recordings from 2001 to 2004 and my FiOS HD recordings from 2007 to 2014 put to shame anything from OTA in DC or on FiOS now.)

So if ATSC 3.0 gets the video quality back to how it used to be, then I could see me droping the current streaming services I use for broadcast content. Well as long as I can still skip the commericals.

Sent from my Galaxy S10

Everybody is different.
Ads annoy me, but my OTA picture is plenty good enough for me (sure beats Comcast and streaming) and ads are the price I pay.
I just hope ATSC 3.0 can offer an even higher bitrate picture, although I must confess some of the stations in Indianapolis are now sending out two 1080i and three 480i pictures that looks pretty darned good.

To each his own!
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post #1817 of 2041 Old 06-02-2019, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by nathill View Post
I just hope ATSC 3.0 can offer an even higher bitrate picture, although I must confess some of the stations in Indianapolis are now sending out two 1080i and three 480i pictures that looks pretty darned good.

To each his own!
I think you mean higher VQ. The bitrate will almost certainly be lower, as HEVC is 4x as efficient at MPEG-2, plus there will be more advantage from stat muxing with more channels on each transmitter.
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From @wd8kct in the Cleveland Thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post
Came across this today: https://www.geniatech.com/product/a683/
ATSC 3.0 for 70 bucks...
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post #1819 of 2041 Old 06-02-2019, 09:54 AM
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From @wd8kct in the Cleveland Thread:
Hmm, only $70? And before there's even any real competition on the market. That's an encouraging sign. I'm curious what the software UI looks like for this tuner. I thought that before retail 3.0 tuners hit the US market, perhaps the major broadcaster groups (Sinclair, Nexstar, Pearl) would try to standardize the UI and feature set, possibly even with an industry-wide branded "Next Gen TV" app.

Several years ago I bought an EyeTV ATSC 1.0 USB tuner for Mac from a company called Elgato. They sold that business to Geniatech, the company selling this ATSC 3.0 tuner on their US site. Geniatech still sells the EyeTV line of tuners for the European market on their European site.
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Originally Posted by nathill View Post
Everybody is different.
Ads annoy me, but my OTA picture is plenty good enough for me (sure beats Comcast and streaming) and ads are the price I pay.
I just hope ATSC 3.0 can offer an even higher bitrate picture, although I must confess some of the stations in Indianapolis are now sending out two 1080i and three 480i pictures that looks pretty darned good.

To each his own!
That is the entire reason OTA in the DC area looks so bad now. Because of more than one primary channel being broadcast on the same frequency. Plus sub-channels. They all look terrible around here now. Nothing like it did just five years ago and a far cry from how it looked eighteen years ago. Back then the HD broadcasts looked superb. But much more bandwidth was given to the broadcasts back then in the DC area.

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Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
From @wd8kct in the Cleveland Thread:
Thanks! Too bad it's "out of stock", not that it would do most of us much good since ATSC 3.0 is still not available in most places.
Attached Thumbnails
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashGuy View Post
Hmm, only $70? And before there's even any real competition on the market. That's an encouraging sign. I'm curious what the software UI looks like for this tuner. I thought that before retail 3.0 tuners hit the US market, perhaps the major broadcaster groups (Sinclair, Nexstar, Pearl) would try to standardize the UI and feature set, possibly even with an industry-wide branded "Next Gen TV" app.

Several years ago I bought an EyeTV ATSC 1.0 USB tuner for Mac from a company called Elgato. They sold that business to Geniatech, the company selling this ATSC 3.0 tuner on their US site. Geniatech still sells the EyeTV line of tuners for the European market on their European site.
Probably like most USB tuners all it has to do is be able to demodulate and tune channels. Everything else would be handled in software. You might need a 4K display and video chipset with HEVC support though. I was wondering this was the way it would go down.
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Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post
Probably like most USB tuners all it has to do is be able to demodulate and tune channels. Everything else would be handled in software. You might need a 4K display and video chipset with HEVC support though. I was wondering this was the way it would go down.
Not sure whether or not the connected computer would need to do the HEVC decoding or if that's done in the USB tuner. But, yeah, I would think that Geniatech is supplying some kind of front-end software for manipulating the tuner and displaying the video. That's what their EyeTV application does for their other tuners (e.g. DVB-T, ATSC 1.0, etc.). It has built-in DVR features. It's not great but gets the job done.
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Stat Muxing

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
I think you mean higher VQ. The bitrate will almost certainly be lower, as HEVC is 4x as efficient at MPEG-2, plus there will be more advantage from stat muxing with more channels on each transmitter.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm not an engineer!
Do have a rookie question.....
Is "stat muxing" what allows streams to steal bandwidth (hope that's the right word here) from other streams on the same channel when necessary?
I have seen some great improvements in picture quality from some stations where several streams are broadcast on the same channel. I would guess stat muxing is part of what makes that possible?
Thanks!

Last edited by nathill; 06-02-2019 at 04:07 PM. Reason: awkward grammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pachinko View Post
Thanks! Too bad it's "out of stock", not that it would do most of us much good since ATSC 3.0 is still not available in most places.

I have to wonder if it was ever IN stock ?!
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post #1826 of 2041 Old 06-02-2019, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
That is the entire reason OTA in the DC area looks so bad now. Because of more than one primary channel being broadcast on the same frequency. Plus sub-channels. They all look terrible around here now. Nothing like it did just five years ago and a far cry from how it looked eighteen years ago. Back then the HD broadcasts looked superb. But much more bandwidth was given to the broadcasts back then in the DC area.

That's too bad. The Indianapolis stations, and even the Terre Haute stations have done a pretty good job recently of improving picture quality while broadcasting several streams on the same channel.
I will grant you nothing can quite match the early days of HDTV featuring one stream per channel. Still remember the first broadcasts of aerial shots over arenas on Monday night football.
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post #1827 of 2041 Old 06-02-2019, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathill View Post
...
steal bandwidth
...
Actually if a stream has a minimum for it's share of the total stream it cannot be lower.

A stream may have a fixed rate, but that is being phased out.

Unless all the streams have bit hungry needs due to water falls, choppy water pictures and other scenes that require lots of bits it all works just fine.

If you wish, I can find one of the TSReader outputs that I have posted for you to see the results.

SHF


EDIT: On the news just now there was a picture of a humpback whale breaching in San Francisco Bay in choppy water. I wonder what the bitrate was for that picture. The bitrates I report are the average over the length of the full stream capture.

(Note, the whale was in serious trouble. I heard the number of whale deaths on the west coast is ~ 70 since January.)

Last edited by SFischer1; 06-02-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
Actually if a stream has a minimum for it's share of the total stream it cannot be lower.

A stream may have a fixed rate, but that is being phased out.

Unless all the streams have bit hungry needs due to water falls, choppy water pictures and other scenes that require lots of bits it all works just fine.

If you wish, I can find one of the TSReader outputs that I have posted for you to see the results.

SHF
That would be great.
I need visuals!
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post #1829 of 2041 Old 06-02-2019, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathill View Post
That would be great.
I need visuals!
OK, I will see if I can capture a full stream from one station that has 17 streams. Right now I am having reception problems as it is a low power station, perhaps later this evening. The previous record was 12 which I saw no problems with. Of course some people will not like the picture. The alternate is the viewers would not have programs in their language. With ATSC 3.0 perhaps thirty (30) on one station.

The second capture will be of one local PBS station. (Of three PBS stations in total, but that is a different story, one has a defective transmitter and has had for years but the FCC will be paying for a new one. Opps, PBS was dropped by one.)

There are two stations on the one channel each with two 1920 x 1080i streams and two other streams. Total of eight (8), but there are only four (4) streams in total. You could say they are lying about having a station in San Jose, but there is a building with the second channel sharing station name in San Jose.

SHF
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post #1830 of 2041 Old 06-02-2019, 08:18 PM
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KQED - KSCZ TSReader output

Attached are the TSReader outputs for KQED and KSCZ.

I can answer some questions but as a complete knowledge of ATSC 1.0 / 2.0 is required, I cannot answer some. Perhaps a PM would be best as that would not be on topic for ATSC 3.0. (I hope that a free version for ATSC 3.0 will be available, the paid version likely is soon to be available if it is not already.)

There is a TSReader thread that we could hijack as it has only four (4) posts.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...light=TSREADER

I did not wait for conditions to be perfect to get a clean full stream capture of KSCZ, perhaps including some errors may be useful.
The PID Usage Chart where the rates are have a lot of junk entries likely due to the transport errors.


Our great list of stations is here, I get ~ 106 streams, but that number may have increased.
http://www.larrykenney.com/sfonair.html

I just posted the latest monthly scan of the streams I can receive.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-lo...l#post58126018

There was a web page describing the TSReader output, but I think it was deleted.

SHF

EDIT:

I replaced the KSCZ TSReader output with a clean full screen capture.

It now looks much better.

I used the wrong antenna, my BAD.
Attached Files
File Type: zip KQED.zip (228.9 KB, 8 views)
File Type: zip KSCZ.zip (598.4 KB, 5 views)

Last edited by SFischer1; 06-04-2019 at 08:36 AM.
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