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post #2311 of 2863 Old 01-08-2020, 06:28 PM
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This article is a bit more upbeat than the one from fiercevideo

https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/t...atsc-president




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post #2312 of 2863 Old 01-08-2020, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post
Current ATSC countries:

USA
Canada
Mexico
Dominican Republic
Dominica
South Korea

Projected new ATSC countries:

Absurdistan
Cobra Island
Elbonia
Lilliput
Loompa Land
Lower Slobbovia
Ninjago
Oz, Land of
Petoria
Shangri-La
Ustinkistan
Wakanda
You can take Wakanda off the list, they're already running 8K over fiber. Too many mountains for OTA.

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post #2313 of 2863 Old 01-08-2020, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PlnOTA View Post
Hopefully they'll do more than just show off, and start selling some 3.0 tuners to the public. I really want to check out the 3.0 station in my market.
All tech is trickle down tech. 3.0 tuners will be in high end sets to start then trickle down into lower priced sets. And these sets will need to be seen in person.

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post #2314 of 2863 Old 01-08-2020, 10:48 PM
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From TV Technology


Apollo PublicTV Releasing NextGen TV Receivers


Android-based receiver devices will serve B2B and B2C markets.


Michael Balderston
1/8/2020

EAST LANSING, Mich.Apollo PublicTV Platform continues to rollout technology that is geared toward helping with the transition to the ATSC 3.0 standard, announcing it will be releasing an Android-based, fully compliant NextGen TV suite of receiver devices for the B2B and B2C markets. These are expected to be the first consumer “gateway” ATSC 3.0 devices on the market.

The NextGen TV receiver is designed to operate over both ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0 transmission using a modular tuner approach. The receivers support all major 3.0 next-generation capabilities, including dynamic ad insertion, interactivity, NRT, Receiver and Broadcast ap, AEA, DRM and A/344.

The receivers employ USB based plug-n-play tuners and can have either a 1.0 tuner, a 3.0 tuner or both tuners. This setup will allow for users to receive 3.0 services inside 1.0 transmission by utilizing Apollo PublicTV’s three-in-one solution.

Apollo Public TV expects the release of these receivers to help accelerate 3.0 adoption because of three key factors. First, with the three-in-one technology broadcasters can start providing 3.0 services inside 1.0 transmissions; second, the receiver has a hybrid and modular design that will help reduce costs of the transition as the receiver can work in both 1.0 and 3.0; and lastly, it allows broadcasters to create carrier grade services to test market demand and inform their communities.

“The promise of NextGen TV is much closer with the availability of these low cost receivers,” said Susi Elkins, general manager at WKAR Public Media, a partner of the Apollo PublicTV Platform. “Public broadcasters who want to experiment with NextGen TV, or test market readiness for their public service and business ideas, now have access to everything they need to move confidently ahead.”

Apollo PublicTV Platform is a collaborative effort between WKAR Public Media at Michigan State University and Gaian Solutions to help with the adoption of NextGen TV by public broadcasters.


https://www.tvtechnology.com/equipme...n-tv-receivers

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post #2315 of 2863 Old 01-09-2020, 04:02 PM
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Never heard of them.

So nobody announcing ship dates or prices at CES?
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post #2316 of 2863 Old 01-09-2020, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Never heard of them.

So nobody announcing ship dates or prices at CES?
Nope.

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https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/t...ion-says-smith

In the article, CBS is reportedly all about ATSC 3.0.

And yet, in 2016 CBS was not all that cracked up with ATSC 3.0.
https://tvnewscheck.com/article/94186/cbss-seidel-gives-3-0-a-lukewarm-reception/

I'm not excited about CBS All Access as a 3.0 PAY service when my CBS OTA is working perfectly.
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post #2318 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by nathill View Post
https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/t...ion-says-smith

In the article, CBS is reportedly all about ATSC 3.0.

And yet, in 2016 CBS was not all that cracked up with ATSC 3.0.
https://tvnewscheck.com/article/94186/cbss-seidel-gives-3-0-a-lukewarm-reception/

I'm not excited about CBS All Access as a 3.0 PAY service when my CBS OTA is working perfectly.
I didn't get that takeaway from the article - it seemed to allude to the fact that CBS is actually the fourth network that is taking a backseat to the 3.0 rollout, since it's prioritizing CBS All Access. I don't think CBS All Access would even be supported as a 3.0 service - I'm under the impression that potential subscriptions would be limited to subchannels, rather than main networks.
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post #2319 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 12:56 PM
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The 61 markets that will get ATSC 3.0 in 2020 have been announced.

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/here...ta-tv-in-2020/

So now that we know who's getting it, what will the implementation look like? Which local affiliates will get lit up, and on what exact date? Would it be appropriate to ask such a question in our respective local OTA reception thread?
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Last edited by DrDon; 01-13-2020 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Fixed link
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post #2320 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
My first one was $250 ($360 in today's dollars) and that was an open-box that originally sold for $299. This was in 2001, some 4 years after the first ATSC 1.0 signal (WXYZ) went on in Detroit. I'm sure tuners in 1998 were scarcer and much higher.
That doesn't sound bad. I spent $400 for each of my HiPix cards in 2001. That were used in PCs. But they also allowed me to record the ATSC 1.0 broadcasts and time shift my OTA HD watching. Which is the entire reason I picked up a couple of them back then. SInce I had no desire to watch my OTA HD broadcasts live.

It's also the reason I upgraded to a gigabit network at home in 2001. Since I was recording 45GB to 65GB of HD content each week. And it took far too long to transfer it to my network storage over a 100Mb/s connection.
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post #2321 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by marlowja View Post
I didn't get that takeaway from the article - it seemed to allude to the fact that CBS is actually the fourth network that is taking a backseat to the 3.0 rollout, since it's prioritizing CBS All Access. I don't think CBS All Access would even be supported as a 3.0 service - I'm under the impression that potential subscriptions would be limited to subchannels, rather than main networks.
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post #2322 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live311 View Post
The 61 markets that will get ATSC 3.0 in 2020 have been announced.



https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/here...ta-tv-in-2020/



So now that we know who's getting it, what will the implementation look like? Which local affiliates will get lit up, and on what exact date? Would it be appropriate to ask such a question in our respective local OTA reception thread?


I don’t understand where this list is coming from. I thought Sinclair was pushing the first ATSC markets. My DMA- Boston is on the list and yet we have no Sinclair stations (I believe.)

I also still don’t understand where the spectrum is coming from with the repack taking away what little extra there was- unless stations remove their subchannels- which seems unlikely.


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post #2323 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nathill View Post
https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/t...ion-says-smith

In the article, CBS is reportedly all about ATSC 3.0.

And yet, in 2016 CBS was not all that cracked up with ATSC 3.0.
https://tvnewscheck.com/article/94186/cbss-seidel-gives-3-0-a-lukewarm-reception/

I'm not excited about CBS All Access as a 3.0 PAY service when my CBS OTA is working perfectly.
I don't think this latest article means that CBS is "all about ATSC 3.0"
The article does not explicitly name which 3 networks are in favor and which is ambivalent. It stands to reason that CBS wouldn't be as bullish considering the monthly subscription fees they'd like to continue collecting for CBS All Access. That leaves Fox, ABC, NBC as the networks that support ATSC 3.0 without reservations.

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post #2324 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by live311 View Post
The 61 markets that will get ATSC 3.0 in 2020 have been announced.



https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/here...ta-tv-in-2020/
This is the 2nd time in the last week or so that I think Cord Cutters has been making claims with their headlines that their "reporting" can't support. There is no source listed for this story. Who is to say that they are not just adding the addition 21 DMAs beyond the top 40 from stories like this one which describes those additional DMAs as follows.
"Work is now underway to identify Next-Gen TV stations in these Top 40 markets (ranked by population), with details to follow in the coming months:"

This makes sense for my market (Omaha, NE) as it has 2 Sinclair stations (Fox and CW). They can move most if not all of their ATSC 1.0 channels from one to the other and then light up 3.0 on the station they cleared. This wouldn't require any intra-market collaboration between station groups to get started.

https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/comi...hing-atsc-3-0/
@Cordcutter sNews: ATSC 3.0 OTA Tuners Will Be Released in the US in The Next Few Days https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/atsc...next-few-days/
This headline is not supported by the quote, "we’re anticipating the first announcements of consumer receivers for the U.S. market in the coming days." He is referring to TV/tuner announcements at CES which likely won't get commercial releases for months.

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post #2325 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pnkflyd51 View Post
I don’t understand where this list is coming from. I thought Sinclair was pushing the first ATSC markets. My DMA- Boston is on the list and yet we have no Sinclair stations (I believe.)

I also still don’t understand where the spectrum is coming from with the repack taking away what little extra there was- unless stations remove their subchannels- which seems unlikely.


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There are other station groups bullish on ATSC 3.0 beyond Sinclair. Without new spectrum to make the transition I expect the transition to happen using any combination of the following methods: better MPEG 2 encoding (content aware encoding)/stat muxing, eliminating subchannels, and reducing resolution (1080i to 720p to 480i).
If more than 2 stations in a market are collaborating, it will be easier to redistribute the subchannels within a market without removing them completely.
At first blush it may not seem like station owners would be willing to turn down subchannel revenues but it makes more sense when you consider the long term business play of making 3.0 successful. If / when it is they will be able to pack in many more channels and myriad other business opportunities involving data casting.

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post #2326 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 08:17 PM
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See 38:50
Michael E. Bouchard Vice President of Technology Strategy ONE Media (Sinclair):
"We don't intend to do any 4K, most of the time." He goes on to explain that the advertisers won't be paying more to have their spots shown in 4k. The one example he gives for where 4k makes sense is the Super Bowl.
Im beginning to think that for the short term 1080p is the most we can hope for; maybe with some HDR for premiere sporting events and some scripted series.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sinclair relegated 4k delivery to 1080p OTA + enhancement layer OTT (SVHC) (Likely would require completing audience profile questions for targeting ads if not a monthly fee)
https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/n...-3-0-ecosystem

At the end of the day, the station groups decisions are all business driven. We shouldn't expect those interests to align with those of the consumer too often. Quality is always a "good enough" proposition to them.

It's a different story in South Korea where the ATSC 3.0 broadcasters are required by their FCC equivalent (Korea Communications Commission) to broadcast more and more 4k content each year. For 2019 that percentage requirement was 15%.
https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/goin...aunched-korea/

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post #2327 of 2863 Old 01-13-2020, 08:29 PM
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There isn't a lot on Sinclair that most people would want to watch, unless they like very political content, which isn't that conducive to high PQ anyways.
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post #2328 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 03:46 AM
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There isn't a lot on Sinclair that most people would want to watch, unless they like very political content, which isn't that conducive to high PQ anyways.


Oh?
Sinclair affiliations:
ABC 33
CBS 27
NBC 22
FOX 44
CW 25

So yeah, I guess there’s nothing offered by any of those networks that might be of general audience interest.
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post #2329 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 06:38 AM
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Oh?
Sinclair affiliations:
ABC 33
CBS 27
NBC 22
FOX 44
CW 25

So yeah, I guess there’s nothing offered by any of those networks that might be of general audience interest.

I'm not in any way disputing your statement.
But I can't see how Sinclair can be affiliated with so many different networks.
With anti-trust and whatnot, it seems very strange.
How did he pull it off?

Are these stations in the same market, or are they scattered all over the USA?
Thanks for any clarification you can offer up to an industry outsider.
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post #2330 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 07:52 AM
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I'm not in any way disputing your statement.
But I can't see how Sinclair can be affiliated with so many different networks.
With anti-trust and whatnot, it seems very strange.
How did he pull it off?

Are these stations in the same market, or are they scattered all over the USA?
Thanks for any clarification you can offer up to an industry outsider.
Antitrust?

Sinclair is like every other station group.. Scripps, Cox, Gannet.. they own 1 or 2 stations in a lot of different cities. In many cases, the network affiliation began long before Sinclair bought the stations. Nothing wrong with that. An associate of mine owns a restaurant group. He has 5 or 6 McDonalds, couple Dunkin Donuts and two sit-down eateries. All different franchises (affiliates) under one ownership group.
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post #2331 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 09:26 AM
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Antitrust?

Sinclair is like every other station group.. Scripps, Cox, Gannet.. they own 1 or 2 stations in a lot of different cities. In many cases, the network affiliation began long before Sinclair bought the stations. Nothing wrong with that. An associate of mine owns a restaurant group. He has 5 or 6 McDonalds, couple Dunkin Donuts and two sit-down eateries. All different franchises (affiliates) under one ownership group.

Well, that makes perfect sense.
I really appreciate industry insider folks like you taking the time to provide answers to outsiders like me.
All I do is buy stuff to keep up with the latest OTA standard.

Again, thanks.
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I didn't get that takeaway from the article - it seemed to allude to the fact that CBS is actually the fourth network that is taking a backseat to the 3.0 rollout, since it's prioritizing CBS All Access. I don't think CBS All Access would even be supported as a 3.0 service - I'm under the impression that potential subscriptions would be limited to subchannels, rather than main networks.
ATSC3.0 allows a station's 'app' to be downloaded to the TV. From the app, a viewer will be able to select various things, some OTA but mostly OTT. A link from the local CBS station's app to CBS All Access is not out of the question in this case.
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post #2333 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by pnkflyd51 View Post
I don’t understand where this list is coming from. I thought Sinclair was pushing the first ATSC markets. My DMA- Boston is on the list and yet we have no Sinclair stations (I believe.)

I also still don’t understand where the spectrum is coming from with the repack taking away what little extra there was- unless stations remove their subchannels- which seems unlikely.


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Pearl TV is the one pushing for 40 markets. Sinclair is a separate deal.
An ATSC3.0 transmission cannot exist concurrently with a ATSC1.0 broadcast. (It's one or the other.) What will most likely happen is that a owner with two stations in the market will move both 'streams' onto one ATSC1.0 transmission. Then the other station will be brought up as a 3.0 station. Here in Phoenix Univision moved their UniMas programming onto the Univision stick. To do that they had to take both 1080i network feeds, local CM's, etc. and convert them to 720p for broadcast. They also had to move a couple of the DigiNets off to other stations even though they still carry two DigiNets on the Univision stick too. That cleared KFPH ch35 stick to come up as a 3.0 experimental station. Scripps is doing the same thing with their KASW ch27 stick here in Phoenix. I don't believe that Scripps has made their partners public at this point.


In markets where there is no duopoly, it gets more complicated. One station has to agree to carry another station and in doing so, gets to be on the other's 3.0 stick. Obviously this takes both money and trust (not to mention vast legal negotiations) for this to take place.

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post #2334 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by PA_MainyYak View Post
Oh?
Sinclair affiliations:
ABC 33
CBS 27
NBC 22
FOX 44
CW 25

So yeah, I guess there’s nothing offered by any of those networks that might be of general audience interest.
And what content do those stations broadcast which would be of interest to AVS members here interested in ATSC 3.0?

Have those networks committed to sending 4K?

How about even 1080p, which would be an improvement?
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post #2335 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 10:26 AM
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In markets where there is no duopoly, it gets more complicated. One station has to agree to carry another station and in doing so, gets to be on the other's 3.0 stick. Obviously this takes both money and trust (not to mention vast legal negotiations) for this to take place.
Thanks for your post Bob. I don't have any idea how things are in other markets. For Boston, the Providence and New Hampshire stations are close to us distance wise and so there's already a lack of spectrum that has led to a bit of sharing. For example the Boston NBC station's main channel is already on our PBS's rf channel. I think for us, unless our stations are willing to shut down sub channels for 5 years (and/or transmit at a low resolution), it's going to be interesting to see how this works out. I know quite a few low income folks who watch content on the sub channels and they'll be upset if they go away.

The Boston ABC station is owned by Hearst. I just looked at the Pearl TV website and it says that Hearst is a part of the consortium. So I guess I assume that my local ABC will be one of the first ones in my market. They also own New Hampshire's ABC station. I believe the Boston Fox station is owned by Cox, also a part of the consortium. So perhaps Fox and ABC will do a deal in Boston. Again, it will be interesting to see if they have to shut down sub channels to make it work.

> 50% of Boston stations aren't even back up at full power at full antenna height after our main repack phase that occurred in August 2019. Hopefully they'll get that straightened out before embarking on this ATSC 3 thing.
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post #2336 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJeff View Post
https://youtu.be/QBmeXUzhYnU
See 38:50
Michael E. Bouchard Vice President of Technology Strategy ONE Media (Sinclair):
"We don't intend to do any 4K, most of the time." He goes on to explain that the advertisers won't be paying more to have their spots shown in 4k. The one example he gives for where 4k makes sense is the Super Bowl.
Im beginning to think that for the short term 1080p is the most we can hope for; maybe with some HDR for premiere sporting events and some scripted series.
It wouldn't surprise me if Sinclair relegated 4k delivery to 1080p OTA + enhancement layer OTT (SVHC) (Likely would require completing audience profile questions for targeting ads if not a monthly fee)
https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/n...-3-0-ecosystem
Yeah, when the general media runs a story about ATSC 3.0, it typically references 4K. But I think it's been pretty clear for a long while now that the best quality we can typically expect from any of the major broadcast networks and their affiliates on 3.0 will be 1080p HDR (except maybe for the Super Bowl, as stated above). An OTT enhancement layer to produce true 4K is possible, but the networks might decide to reserve that premium format for on-demand versions of their content on their own OTT services (e.g. Hulu, CBS AA, Peacock).
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post #2337 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 12:03 PM
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ATSC3.0 allows a station's 'app' to be downloaded to the TV. From the app, a viewer will be able to select various things, some OTA but mostly OTT. A link from the local CBS station's app to CBS All Access is not out of the question in this case.
I assume OTA would continue to offer the normal CBS broadcast and the app/OTT stuff would be an Internet only addition?
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post #2338 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 12:48 PM
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I bought my Zenith HDV420 open-box for $325, I believe, at Circuit City. That would have been 2002.

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With a list price of $649, the DTC100 is a terrific bargain,


Prior to the DTC100, I was picking up and recording my first SE MI ATSC broadcasts fall of 1999 with a WinTV-D card, the original that could only display at SDTV resolution
https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.p...ppauge_WinTV-D

Gotta git some geek points for those

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post #2339 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 01:09 PM
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Yeah, when the general media runs a story about ATSC 3.0, it typically references 4K. But I think it's been pretty clear for a long while now that the best quality we can typically expect from any of the major broadcast networks and their affiliates on 3.0 will be 1080p HDR (except maybe for the Super Bowl, as stated above). An OTT enhancement layer to produce true 4K is possible, but the networks might decide to reserve that premium format for on-demand versions of their content on their own OTT services (e.g. Hulu, CBS AA, Peacock).
So, what's the main reason that a consumer might be all juiced up and chomping at the bit to get ATSC 3.0?

It seems little more than broadcasters trying to leverage OTA assets into OTT expansion. And all of the ad and data sources that come with a net connection. Plus some more DRM for good measure.

All of that makes me a little sick to my stomach. I don't care about getting custom ad insertions or being another cog in big data. If they don't plan to exploit 4k, what else is good about it?
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post #2340 of 2863 Old 01-14-2020, 01:53 PM
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If they don't plan to exploit 4k, what else is good about it?
The RF modulation is much more robust then ATSC 1.0 and compression is better. I agree with you about targeted ads.

I don't understand the 4k hype. From my reading HDR dramatically improves image quality perception at a fraction of the bandwidth cost of 4k. Given the limited amount of channel capacity I'm guessing broadcasters will go that route since it represents a lot of bang for the buck while not chewing up channel bandwidth.
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