Over the many decades the physical bandwidth for OTA TV keeps shrinking. - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 163 Old 11-30-2018, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Huh? I believe Comcast extends shows when they run over- the control, guide, and VOD is all IP, so what would cable have do with how the guide data is delivered?
The broadcaster has to flag to the platform operator when a show starts, finishes or is re-scheduled from the MCR Playout area? That data has to get to Comcast and then it's consumers somehow doesn't it?

In the UK the BBC, ITV, C4 etc. provide that data feed to Sky (and I think Freesat), but inject it themselves over OTA. The 'Programme Start' trigger usually happens on the station ident before each show (so you hear the show intro with any content warning - we don't do graphic overlays for that kind of thing) and finishes after the item following the show (in case there is a post show 'If this show has affected you - you can ring the BBC Action Line for advice and support' etc. type announcements)

I don't think European cable uses IP for primary guide data - most platforms use the same DVB-EIT standards that are also used for DVB-S/S2 and DVB-T/T2.
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post #122 of 163 Old 11-30-2018, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post
The UK is preparing for 700MHz clearance. As part of this the COM7 and COM8 DVB-T2 muxes that are temporary and reduced coverage compared to most other muxes, are moving to new, temporary, SFNs on C55 and C56 - nationwide.
My friend receives from Rowridge. COM7 and COM8 was moved from 600MHz C31 and C37 to C55 and C56 in May of this year.
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For large areas of the UK, aerial groupings have remained the same since the analogue days, so both analogue and digital transmissions were grouped in the same part of the Band IV or V UHF spectrum, allowing optimised aerials (antennas) to be used. This wasn't the case everywhere - but it was for lots of areas.
Turns out that his estate's communal antenna is wideband and dual polarization.
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The changes were mentioned on the local news - but it hasn't been a widely communicated change as Freeview TVs will retune themselves automatically (assuming they can receive the moved/new muxes)
He doesn't really watch the news. He tried retuning his USB tuner and it will not lock onto C55 or C56. No luck. The crappy power levels for C55 and C56 really make it tough. And there are those in this country that also have reception issues. Funny how this is a common issue around the world.

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post #123 of 163 Old 12-01-2018, 03:47 AM
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Thumbs down Telly license don't negage FreeView's namesake.

[QUOTE=mrvideo;57195774he crappy power levels for C55 and C56 really make it tough. And there are those in this country that also have reception issues. Funny how this is a common issue around the world. [/QUOTE]


Funny, how that overall the system works 1000x better than the US outdated affiliate model... They've got issues to do the bidding of the cellco just like in the US in moving things around...

So there likely is some temporary issues with power level till all this plays out... but in the long run it will resolve and it will still be 1000x easier than the US system ever was even in the days of NTSC and 3-10 stations max for an area.

And the FreeeView system is FREE.. Your "telly license" holdover is your problem. It has existed since TV.. Thats a separate regulatory issue... Nothing has changed in that regard since analog on PAL. I am not going to argue the "semantics" of this ilcense/tax as you will state its a fee for FreeView... OK... got with that... Its not, but if it helps you be right v. me. go with it.

100's = 134... and I've stated they are in various SD and HD.. I am not getting into that.. You have patent trollery issues for HD just like ATSC has since 1.0 and 3.0 is even worse cough h.265 cough... and thats just the tip of the iceberg.

Overall the FreeView/FreeSat system works 10000000x better than 100's of affiliates and LPTV wasting spectrum... Especially in 2018... And yes the cellco's are just as wasteful. Then don't need more spectrum, they need more sites. They are choosing the err, cheaper way out, more spectrum versus doing what was cellular was desinged for, you know, cellularization!

Just maybe with the various needs of lighthouses and the SFN the some bright person at the various TV groups will get their head in gear and realize they can do better... UNLIKELY.

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post #124 of 163 Old 12-01-2018, 04:01 AM
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Red face Forget what you know about TV delivery in the US

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
They tested the ATSC 3 here on WJW on RF 31, & then again briefly on RF 9, though the results were pretty much based on the RF 31 findings, I would occasionally see these stations in operation of ATSC 1 in the mornings here for their transmitter warm up. There also did not appear to be any night time testing going on (to protect Canada & besides no one wants to work at night anyway). When they switch over to ATSC 3 you really don't see anything as our current. They appeared to be broadcasting a Video Loop from Oregon PBS with a couple of subs & an audio channel, & used 10 as it's virtual channel.
The 3.0 testing at WJW and WRAL, and a few others has been sorely lacking in its complete ness in a lot of places from spectrum to other tech details..

Thats why the DFW and PHX testing will be important to watch for the various tech details, lighthouse ops etc...

As for working at night... YES PLEASE! I'd rather work while all of you are home asleep! Since my agency allows me to trade away shifts as long as a qualified person stakes them... welp... decades woth of 0800-1600 bye bye! Unfortunately for some of my duties its not an option...

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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
You referring to the model on each network broadcasts on one Physical Channel, or one virtual channel? Or we would be on something similar to an FTA Sat regional system?
Forget how things work in the US totally.

ABC = 101, CBS =102... Just go down the list and start with the US6 they get the first 6 channel. Then we start with diginets... group eac by name * operator.. thus Weigels group H&I, MeTV etc. would be togther, 201, 202, etc.. right on on down the list...

As for the ACTUAL RF TRANSMISSION, it would be done via one tower operating on mulitple frequencies/channels providing MUXES... The UK gets into a bunch of naming of this mux and that mux.. Screw that... We just start at channel 14 and start putting channels on the RF site till they are all on there.. There maybe technical reasons to group things on the actual channels such that all HD are on x channels, all the SD's on this group, all the 2160p on these ones etc...Or maybe we have to put all ABC/DIsney together or whatver..

YOU tune to 100 and out comes ABC. Don't matter if you are in TPA or LAX or PIT.. You get the same stuff out on the screen.

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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
One thing I used to enjoy when traveling (I used to travel occasionally many years ago), was the local flair in Radio & sometimes TV outside of network hours, that ambiance is now gone, as everyone wants to be fed the hip & cool garbage over cable... but hey? even TBS used to be WTCG an independent UHF in Atlanta.

I couldn't care less. Content.. play the music, and shut up! Or show the shows.. I really don't give a crap about any of that "branding" nonsense that the stations/groups /networks think matters so much.

I tune to x for show y. Period.

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post #125 of 163 Old 12-01-2018, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
I didn't say they were using floppy disk antennas. You can put a DB8e in your attic if you want to. Some may be on the backside of houses as well. It's not like satellite where is HAS to be outside and be able to see the satellite positions.

They're not made up. There may be antennas on your street that you can't see, but even if there aren't YOUR STREET is not the entire US.
Nope. My area/street has 2 user DBS or CATV. Its predominately DBS... Most have DBS for video and the local CATV for HSD.

Nope they are NOT inside... Most here have no clue you can get TV via antenna.

There is actual knowledge about what is being used... There are NO antennas hidden in places here...

Putting those in attic etc. will cause you to loose stuff. The main stuff may come from Lithia.. but if you are below the scrub and ground clutter and then behind roofing, you ain't getting squat.

Driving around is part of what I do... and I see lots of these $$$ homes with 2-3 DBS dishses... there might be a few hidden antennas around, but again.. those trying that will find out that won't fly in this area. The sad fact is that when you discuss this with people... they have no clue that you can even do this.

I had a 30 minute plus discussion with some one in a major box store about getting a REAL ANTENNA to do this versus being conned into the various Keys and disks...

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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
As much as I want illegal collusion in this particular situation, it's still illegal collusion, and is illegal for a good reason in general.
I knew some one would bring this up eventually.... Its not collusion if they decide to do it themselves separately.. and they already act this way.. in their wink wink don't compete with this or that show/event...

If one would wise up... and the rest can follow... Again they all wink wink.. don't program against the Super Series and stupid awards shows etc... Yeah... like thats not planned on some golf course or steam room or something... yeahhhhhh... righhht... In a true market if I am SBS I WOULD PROGRAM AGAINST THAT stuff! There are plenty of people who don't give a hoot about that crap..


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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Then you need local stations to do the broadcasting, or at least multiple localized feeds from regional O&O stations that feed various transmitters.
Forget how the US operates now. Totally dump it in the "bin." The networks and station groups no longer exist! POOF GONE! USTV Transmitters Inc. owns the actual RF stuff....

The networks send what ever is the "anointed" game to the affiliates be it sat or fiber/IP, microwave what ever.. The NEW USFreeView just receives said annotated game and broadcasts it on the sports channel... Just like it would be done any other time now.. Just wouldn't be on 101 ABC or what ever.. its on 601 Sports1

There would be towers located all over the US for each area to get the system.. Again, forget about getting KDKA, you get CBS, ABC...

And all that other stuff the affiliates have been doing, they can again, combine that in to one operation.. and sent that out on NEWS on 666. It really would fall into line with the massive automation the station groups are doing already.. All they need is a place to receive the various ENG stuff... Some of these setups can be quite massive even still.. I am not sure how much is left in one area, but what was done for ENG at that time was quite impressive.. I've seen WFLA etc. setup to do ENG stuff in the area.. so the various RX sites have the receivers for the local ENG stuff and studio to put it together.. they can cabbage all that together from the 4 in the area to make one.






Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

I wouldn't say it's totally broken, but it sure is messed up. You could de-bloat it if you made everything O&O and just has some localized feeds for different DMAs or something. I'm not sure how you would get there though. If you get rid of retransmission consent, and force everything into must-carry, most of the good programming would leave the networks. I'd actually rather have a rate-regulated retransmission consent that is set by the FCC, and requires a rulemaking proposal type of thing to change. Then, every channel would be the same.


The biggest issue is the transmitter locations. The idea of fully co-locating every market makes a lot of sense, I don't know how you'd force that. It would certainly make OTA easier and push even more people over the edge to cord cutting.
Nope.. We just need to get everyone to understand things the way I do.. the NABifia and some here don't like that as it means their way of life ends! I've seen lots of things change in my field for the good and bad... Each area used to answer their own phone for emergencies... Now many don't.. Some areas have held on to theirs and just use a consolidated radio system be it a 850MHZ trunked or sharing their old V/UHF channels etc.. I have very firm beliefs on how PSAP's etc. should be setup and operated.. and it directly contradicts the views of the present system. Much like this... I've adapted to things some of it begrudgingly in consolidated PSAP's...

How would this transform things... Sinclair etc. would be in the CONTENT business, not the TV station business.. So Sinclair would need to come up with a MeTV to show what ever... So how do get there???? Sinclair ain't going to just hand over TX's , etc.. to US TV Transmissions.. You are right, they will have to be paid off.. Which unfortunately means getting the government involved, sigh... There just is no way to get rid of this outdated model without $$$ pay offs... sigh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
ATSC 3.0 has the potential to solve a lot of problems, but it depends on what business model comes out of it and how it is implemented. I see no business reason for stations to implement SFNs, but if they did, they could blanket virtually everywhere with coverage, even if there are only a couple of channels per market that are shared by multiple broadcasters.
The business model is that you get MORE VIEWERS.. LESS EQUIPMENT to maintain, le

Take the TPA area.. WTSP has its main signal on 10 and is now at Lithia like the rest of the main stations versus that tower they had in the north end of Pinellas.. When they did this, coverage in Citrus Co. became an issue.. so they put an translator on 4... to fill in... With an SFN, they put that same translator on 10. They were the lone doppelganger outside the main site.. Why do you think that WWSB put its tower in Parrish?????? So when people pointed their antenna towards Lithia they got them too! DUH. That was long before ATSC.

SFN's is the key to fixing 99.99999% of the US problems now... BUT It FIXES an EXISTING PROBLEM.. It doesn't IMPROVE THINGS for every one. It also permits that US Freeview... Since we can put up all this TX's on the same channel... Its much like what I do its called simulcat.. We have TX's that are fed a sync signal and all sites are synced to this so that when the sites ALL KEY UP reception works. This is key in FM, and especially digital FM like P25, etc.. Theres lots of tech to this, which this site is not geared for... Paging has done this for years and years with Golay, POCSAG and Flex.. Thats how these networks on 929-932Mhz operate.. and even the older ones on 152.480 etc.. Massive numbers of sites key up at 400W.... You can do it "sequentially" as was done before simulcasting, much like what TV is doing now with translators on differing channels. But in this case the towers that overlapped would transmit one at a time. Thats why pagers have "Sequential lockout" time periods in their programming. Otherwise you might get a page 2-3x in some areas.. It actually was better to not to use that option, as then customers didn't complain about missed pages.. Better they got the page than complain about missing the "big deal page."


The tests in DFW & PHX with SFN's, end the sharing for lighthouses will show how well , or errr more likely how the broadcasters don't play well with each other... As well as sort out the tech issues... BUT without some 3.0 tuners in the hands of REAL USERS who will know the real results...

All too many people have drunk the FlavorAde on that the NABifia is handing out on this whole station branding etc... I never drank it... Station x shows BBT at 2000. Period. I don't tune in because of some news anchor or what ever... I couldn't even tell you who this people are/were if I walked past them! I don't care. I don't watch news, sports, or wx..


Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
That is true, people are stupid about dishes and antennas on houses in the US. I do see more and more of them though, especially in middle class areas.
There are many factors to this... CATV as the delivery model v. putting up an antenna.. and more... I am just not going to tackle that..


Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
But back then, there wasn't the fierce competition driving prices skywards for sports rights.
Then don't pay that price for it! Sports has $0 to me... Like I said, ONE game per year matters, TWO max if OSU is in the Rose Bowl. ... This view you either get as you are Buckeye or you are not.. The saying goes you could loose EVERY GAME but that one game with that so called school to the north, and still keep you job!

Put all the sports on some paid channels and those who want them pay for them. I don't care...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
The UK one was tough to watch, IMO. It was too dark, too stuffy, and way too British for me. The realness and grit of the American one made it MUCH, MUCH more engaging and compelling.
Definitely won't agree there... The UK one was outstanding as is 99% of the stuff I get from shows to the documentaries..I've blasted through about 100+ docu series etc.. from BBC etc.. outstanding stuff... I think I've only dropped one UK show ever.. it was one about some woman and her life had some one on it from Broadchurch.. it was totally sophmoronic, so it was deleted.

Great stuff like Inside the Factory with Cherry Healy (shes the blonde brit in those stupid TP ads awhile back.) Shows how all kinds of things are made.. really great... And now something I've seen there is coming to the US. Ocado makes massive dist center automation, and Krogers is going to build several of these and cut all those jobs in the dist center(s). You can see this in the episode on Arla and how very few humans are involved. You can look to more and more of this in the US grocery area... the love child of now uses it for a lot of stuff in hose "fulfillment centers."

The US HoC followed very closely the broad strokes of the UK version.. I could see it all over the place.. and its a great show... but it is a remake. ...Just like HomeLand in the US is based on this show from IR..The shows couldn't be more total polar opposites.. I don't see the connection at all... I've tried to watch the original numerous times... I just don't like it.. nothing to engage me... don't care about the topic etc.. It just was a dud. Just like Rake, the real one, had no correlation to the bastardized US version. Although the AU one lost me when they decided to become a political bash fest... so I deleted the rest of it unwatched..

I can remember when watching LoveJoy on the local UHF was a thrill... I love that show...I would love to see more of it..lots of cameos of US unknowns and knowns then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Pretty much. SNL is fun to skip through and watch the intro, news, and live performance segments. Other than that the Big 4 have basically nothing. PBS is where all the good stuff is.
Nope.. I don't do sophmoronic humor and thats all SNL and the rest of it is.. along with the biased views.

PBS makes great background noise as I can put on Doc Martin, Father Brown, MidSommer Murders, Miss Fischer etc.. and just let it play....But I've seen this stuff MONTHS to YEARS BEFORE... It was at least a year before Doc Martin's last seasons aired in the US as I recall...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
The vMVPDs are operating near a break-even, maybe even a slight loss, and that's not a sustainable model. I thought their re-capture rate would be 50% of cord-cutters, it turns out the data show it's 10%. Not looking good for pay TV in general.
There is no way to be profitable if you are paying the rates that they probably are for the content... They are letting this wild wild west of sign up, cancel, sign up, cancel go on for now to entice you into the model.. Then it will be the same things... you sign up for 2-3 years, you have to use their approved box even it is just some Android box they stuck some application on.. its locked to that, you can't do anything with it..etc.. And the ETF's to leave etc.. its coming...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
You're right that the business model for 3.0 doesn't really add up, unless it's to offer dozens of subchannels in every market of old re-runs, local content, and syndicated stuff, and just grind out ad revenue from them. That might just be the model.
Well if what some here insist is the only way forward with retrans fees... Then why invest in 3.0????? Some have posted that some of the stations would love to turn off the TX! OK.. so then why do we need KDKA, KNBC etc..? We don't!


Turn it all off! I'd be happy to get Weigels mux and others via a Ku/Ka DBS like FreeSat system... Unfortunately Weigels is on C band, and a 3ft dish would be right on the margin for it... Others are encrypted such as Grit etc.. Honestly if you asked me in the late 90's early 00's I would have told you and bet that DBS in a system like FreeSat would have taken over and terrestial would be long gone... Turned over to LMR and cell... and it still might! If IF 3.0 doesn't make things happen.. the CTIA will come a knocking! As will some LMR.. As we have not seen the lawsuits over the T Band mess yet...



Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
I don't care if the Big 4 own their transmitters, but Comcast shouldn't own them and their content.
In the present setup correct, NONE should, not even the O&O. none

Get rid of the delivery system ie: affiliates and O&O, and they are then just a network like HBO, USA, TNT etc..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
I think Wall Street is still dumb and is chasing sub numbers, not profit. The HUGE profits are in being a dumb pipe. Why pay for content when you can charge people $75/mo for internet where the content providers PAY YOU? Comcast is able to not only not pay for content for their broadband, but they are running a classic extortion racket with Netflix and other CDNs so that their traffic doesn't suffer from "unfortunate accidents" if they don't pay up.
Wall Street is just fubar'd.. GM announces massive job cuts, and the price goes up! Stupid Gordon and Bobbys who don't live in the real world... The US has to make stuff, like cars, yes, CARS. Not SUV's and PU's... I see this all too often.. F550 and some 4ft girl falls out of it! And she literally has a ladder to get back into it!

This acquiesce of cars to other makers is going to bite the US car makers in the butt! Just like the little JP imports did! I am not involved in "fleet operations" but just as Ford gave up on the Sable/Taurus 2x! for PD and the CV is gone, the impala is now gone, the love child of late is those chargers, and meh... I'd rather have my Taurus back.... So what is the next fleet car????? Yeah we've got SUV's and F150's for K9, and 'Range/Cow " deputies/officers... you don't need a patrol unit in the city/suburbs in a F150/2/3/4/50! And even some K9's are using the impalas etc...

I honestly should never have sold my old Taurus. I'd actually like to find one of the newer SHO's and move on.. A F150 etc.. just is too much.. plus thats uncovered space ... meh..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
Same. When "cord cutting" was buying shows one at a time on iTunes, I laughed at the concept. I thought it was just a "right sizing" of the market based on people who didn't really watch much TV in the first place. I was totally wrong. Lots of good content left cable TV, tons of great content went to streaming, there are more options than ever, and the price of cable has gone skywards while the content on cable has tanked, and there's basically nothing left there. Cable fails the value proposition now that there is great content on streaming for much less, HBO and Showtime are untethered from cable, and OTA has made a comeback.
We are on totally different models..

You are cord shaving, you may be removing CATV/DBS and then paying for some service or shows a la carte... I am not.

I am cord cutter. I don't have any paid video services,NONE. I pay $0/month for TV.

I have an antenna, and a world wide CDN..which gathers up everything I need and sends it to me. $0/month. Watch everything I want and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post
ATSC-8VSB, as flawed as it is, did help cord cutting, as now you can get the exact same digital signal from an antenna that you get on cable, and actually better than satellite in most cases. Crappy analog reception kept a lot of people on cable back in the day.
[/quote]

Crappy reception is keeping people on CATV or DBS period. ATSC didn't help improve things reception wise, just as in my systems digital made for reception problems... Example... converting the EXISTING sites to P25, things were fine for the mobiles at 35W, and even the modeling showed that 5W portables at 4ft shoulder speaker/antenna mics would meet that coverage... The REAL WORLD said, NO! $13Million later and 3 sites more, its back to and a little better than the old analog simulcast..

This is why we need to get rid of the TV fifedoms and move on ... to US FreeView.

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post #126 of 163 Old 12-01-2018, 07:32 AM
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Too much. It's like reading War and Peace. (or... the original title: War: What is it Good For? )
Not an election year.
Not worth anger.


Wow! Such bitterness.
OTA will be here for the forseeable future. Use it or don't use it. Most everyone thankfully has a choice as to how they obtain programming or entertainment.
Get your block/neighborhood/township/county/state out to vote (if ballots can be properly counted) and write your congressman/senator with your complaints/requests/suggestions.


Try to enjoy the upcoming holidays.


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post #127 of 163 Old 12-01-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TampBayOTA View Post
Nope. My area/street has 2 user DBS or CATV. Its predominately DBS... Most have DBS for video and the local CATV for HSD.
Your street != all of the United States, therefore, your statement that the statistics are wrong is flawed. By your logic, almost no one buys foreign cars since almost no one in Detroit buys foreign cars, therefore the statistics must all be wrong.

Quote:
I knew some one would bring this up eventually.... Its not collusion if they decide to do it themselves separately.. and they already act this way.. in their wink wink don't compete with this or that show/event...
Then it doesn't work.

Quote:
Forget how the US operates now. Totally dump it in the "bin." [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] The networks and station groups no longer exist! POOF GONE! USTV Transmitters Inc. owns the actual RF stuff....
You could do that, but you'd lose local content. I actually like your idea of RSNs picking up the local/regional news. Consolidation is more efficient.

Quote:
And all that other stuff the affiliates have been doing, they can again, combine that in to one operation.. and sent that out on NEWS on 666. It really would fall into line with the massive automation the station groups are doing already.. All they need is a place to receive the various ENG stuff... Some of these setups can be quite massive even still.. I am not sure how much is left in one area, but what was done for ENG at that time was quite impressive.. I've seen WFLA etc. setup to do ENG stuff in the area.. so the various RX sites have the receivers for the local ENG stuff and studio to put it together.. they can cabbage all that together from the 4 in the area to make one.
Also interesting, not sure how you'd get them to all agree on anything though.

Quote:
How would this transform things... Sinclair etc. would be in the CONTENT business, not the TV station business.. So Sinclair would need to come up with a MeTV to show what ever... So how do get there???? Sinclair ain't going to just hand over TX's , etc.. to US TV Transmissions.. You are right, they will have to be paid off.. Which unfortunately means getting the government involved, sigh... There just is no way to get rid of this outdated model without $$$ pay offs... sigh...
You're basically cutting the Sinclairs of the world out of the system entirely, which sounds great, but they're obviously going to fight that.

Quote:
The business model is that you get MORE VIEWERS.. LESS EQUIPMENT to maintain, le
But they'd be cannibalizing viewers on cable and satellite who pay retrans $$$. The local station branding makes no sense anymore, I think it's generational. Younger people don't care. We just watch xyz show. But most of the good shows now are on streaming anyway.

Quote:
There are many factors to this... CATV as the delivery model v. putting up an antenna.. and more... I am just not going to tackle that..
It's just HOAs and people being idiots about mounting antennas. Also, a lot of old dishes and antennas are left up that are in crappy shape and look ugly, which does't help the perception. I see houses in the hood with like 10 dishes on them because no one gives a crap, every time someone gets satellite, they just add more dishes.

Quote:
Then don't pay that price for it! Sports has $0 to me... Like I said, ONE game per year matters, TWO max if OSU is in the Rose Bowl. ...
I don't. Bball is fun to watch, but not at $40/mo or more.

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Put all the sports on some paid channels and those who want them pay for them. I don't care...
That's called cord cutting.

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Definitely won't agree there... The UK one was outstanding as is 99% of the stuff I get from shows to the documentaries..
Definitely not up to the level the American one is. The American one is so much better.

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The US HoC followed very closely the broad strokes of the UK version.. I could see it all over the place.. and its a great show... but it is a remake.
And did a way better job of it.

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Nope.. I don't do sophmoronic humor and thats all SNL and the rest of it is.. along with the biased views.
Their opening segments and news desk are both on point and very entertaining. I skip most of the comedy skits, I just don't get their comedy.

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PBS makes great background noise as I can put on Doc Martin, Father Brown, MidSommer Murders, Miss Fischer etc.. and just let it play....But I've seen this stuff MONTHS to YEARS BEFORE... It was at least a year before Doc Martin's last seasons aired in the US as I recall...
I'm talking about the American content, not British. NOVA, This Old House, American Experience, etc.

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There is no way to be profitable if you are paying the rates that they probably are for the content... They are letting this wild wild west of sign up, cancel, sign up, cancel go on for now to entice you into the model.. Then it will be the same things... you sign up for 2-3 years, you have to use their approved box even it is just some Android box they stuck some application on.. its locked to that, you can't do anything with it..etc.. And the ETF's to leave etc.. its coming...
They have to have an open platform without contracts, otherwise people will just leave. I predict that only the largest players will survive in this market, and barely eke out a profit.

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We are on totally different models..

You are cord shaving, you may be removing CATV/DBS and then paying for some service or shows a la carte... I am not.
WRONG. OTT SVOD isn't the cord. Cord shaving is a traditional MVPD with a lower tier package. Cord replacing is getting a vMVPD. Paying for OTT SVOD is cord cutting.

I am cord cutter. I don't have any paid video services,NONE. I pay $0/month for TV.

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This is why we need to get rid of the TV fifedoms and move on ... to US FreeView.
Or they could just map add-supported streaming apps. It would basically do the same thing at this point.

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The broadcaster has to flag to the platform operator when a show starts, finishes or is re-scheduled from the MCR Playout area? That data has to get to Comcast and then it's consumers somehow doesn't it?
I'm guessing Comcast or it's guide data provider has humans updating guide data. Not something a smaller provider could afford to do, but it makes sense when you have 20M stubs or whatever they have these days.

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Wow! Such bitterness.
I'll say. His math doesn't match my math. 100s mean multiples of 100, i.e., at least 200+. 134 is not a multiple of 100. And freeview isn't free. It is kinda like going to a hotel where they charge you $100 to get in the door and the room is free. Sorry, but in the end, the room is still $100.

I give up.

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post #129 of 163 Old 12-01-2018, 09:12 PM
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You have to use what works for your situation. No matter what your economic models are, the elephant in the room for OTA has always been terrain and the laws of physics. Crappy reception is one thing, no reception is another. Signals don't travel well through mountains and some valleys don't work either. Pesky LOS (Line of sight) reception, damn you physical laws . Alternatives are good, there are places where people don't get OTA reception and satellite doesn't have a clear shot at the sky. So it's something coming down a cable for those people. So for those of you who have options, enjoy them and don't let people suggest that thing on your roof would look better with little white lights during the holiday season. (It's bad enough those things are on palm trees year round ).

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post #130 of 163 Old 12-01-2018, 09:17 PM
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Too much. It's like reading War and Peace. (or... the original title: War: What is it Good For? )
Not an election year.
Not worth anger.


Wow! Such bitterness.
OTA will be here for the forseeable future. Use it or don't use it. Most everyone thankfully has a choice as to how they obtain programming or entertainment.
Get your block/neighborhood/township/county/state out to vote (if ballots can be properly counted) and write your congressman/senator with your complaints/requests/suggestions.


Try to enjoy the upcoming holidays.



EDIT:
Ever consider installing a BUD?
BUD ?, B.U.D. ? Ok I give up...what is it

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WOW!
I'll see your and raise you

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BUD ?, B.U.D. ? Ok I give up...what is it

Big Ugly Dish. One of those old-fashioned yuge dishes people used to have to put up before the pizza-sized dishes came on the scene.
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post #134 of 163 Old 12-02-2018, 06:49 AM
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Big Ugly Dish. One of those old-fashioned yuge dishes people used to have to put up before the pizza-sized dishes came on the scene.
What ya mean "used to?" I have a 10' and a 12' and use them.

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I'm guessing Comcast or it's guide data provider has humans updating guide data. Not something a smaller provider could afford to do, but it makes sense when you have 20M stubs or whatever they have these days.
Ah - we're at crossed-purposes. The level of accuracy I'm talking about is recordings starting and stopping accurate to the second, with DVB-EIT data triggered directly from the BBC's Playout centres as they actually make the transitions in the playout suite. Similary the EPG on OTA and satellite is updated as soon as the schedule changes, when sporting events overrun for instance and shows switch channels (something the BBC can do as it has BBC One and BBC Two here).
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Big Ugly Dish. One of those old-fashioned yuge dishes people used to have to put up before the pizza-sized dishes came on the scene.
You mean "The Full Size Dish" AKA "The Giant Bird Bath", I had a client a few years back who used one to watch programs from the Middle East. He loved showing off what you could receive with it.

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What ya mean "used to?" I have a 10' and a 12' and use them.
The exact phase was actually "used to HAVE to put up". People can still put them up and I'm sure they're awesome, but viewers now have other options in satellite than the BUDs.
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The exact phase was actually "used to HAVE to put up". People can still put them up and I'm sure they're awesome, but viewers now have other options in satellite than the BUDs.
Unless one is very unhappy with reception (OTA), subscriptions (FiOS, cable, DSL, Dish, DirecTV), programming, etc.


When it comes to satellite... one's option are just as mentioned AFAIK. D*, E* or a BUD.



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post #139 of 163 Old 12-02-2018, 03:32 PM
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Ah - we're at crossed-purposes. The level of accuracy I'm talking about is recordings starting and stopping accurate to the second, with DVB-EIT data triggered directly from the BBC's Playout centres as they actually make the transitions in the playout suite. Similary the EPG on OTA and satellite is updated as soon as the schedule changes, when sporting events overrun for instance and shows switch channels (something the BBC can do as it has BBC One and BBC Two here).
Oh yeah, we just don't have that. Padding is fine as long as you have enough tuners. With cable, the actual signal can get delayed 30 seconds or more as it makes its way from broadcaster to C-Band to the MVPD's network to either their DBS system, DVR, and whole-home DVR system, or IP, QAM, and whole-home DVR system.
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The exact phase was actually "used to HAVE to put up". People can still put them up and I'm sure they're awesome, but viewers now have other options in satellite than the BUDs.
My BUDs are only used for wildfeeds. I have an old Primestar dish aimed at PBS Ku network feeds and another older Ku dish aimed at NBC, which I basically only use for Olympic coverage and their May upfront feed. The heyday of BUD usage is indeed long over.
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post #141 of 163 Old 12-02-2018, 11:56 PM
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The 3.0 testing at WJW and WRAL, and a few others has been sorely lacking in its complete ness in a lot of places
Forget how things work in the US totally.

ABC = 101, CBS =102... Just go down the list and start with the US6 they get the first 6 channel. Then we start with diginets... group eac by name * operator.. thus Weigels group H&I, MeTV etc. would be togther, 201, 202, etc.. right on on down the list...

As for the ACTUAL RF TRANSMISSION, it would be done via one tower operating on mulitple frequencies/channels providing MUXES... The UK gets into a bunch of naming of this mux and that mux.. Screw that... We just start at channel 14 and start putting channels on the RF site till they are all on there.. There maybe technical reasons to group things on the actual channels such that all HD are on x channels, all the SD's on this group, all the 2160p on these ones etc...Or maybe we have to put all ABC/DIsney together or whatver..

YOU tune to 100 and out comes ABC. Don't matter if you are in TPA or LAX or PIT.. You get the same stuff out on the screen.
.
I never liked this "Cable" "Direct" setup of the 101, 102... 201, 202 etc. I'm too old school, & never knew the joys of Pay TV, but I see you point, that would eliminate the local "branding" hypothetically it would not work I have 2 channel 10's that null each other out , but in theory that would make things simpler.

9-5???, can only make the highways so wide to dump 85% of the workforce on the roads from 0700-0830, & again from 1530-1700..

I'm way ahead of my time, if the world wants to keep procreating we are going to eventually go to round the clock scheduling... may take a few hundred years for the powers that be to figure this out.
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post #142 of 163 Old 12-03-2018, 10:04 PM
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9-5???, can only make the highways so wide to dump 85% of the workforce on the roads from 0700-0830, & again from 1530-1700..

I'm way ahead of my time, if the world wants to keep procreating we are going to eventually go to round the clock scheduling... may take a few hundred years for the powers that be to figure this out.
We are definitely procreating too much for the resources of the world, but traffic is an issue of poor development patterns, poor land use, lack of dense housing near where jobs are, lack of transit, and lack of transit oriented development, among other related factors.
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post #143 of 163 Old 12-04-2018, 02:20 PM
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Oh yeah, we just don't have that. Padding is fine as long as you have enough tuners. With cable, the actual signal can get delayed 30 seconds or more as it makes its way from broadcaster to C-Band to the MVPD's network to either their DBS system, DVR, and whole-home DVR system, or IP, QAM, and whole-home DVR system.
Yep - but implemented properly the EITs will be delayed the same as the video. I guess the big difference here is that the networks do their own emission coding for OTA and satellite and so don't have to worry about delays from third party distribution. Cable here is always the poor relation though... It's always behind the curve.
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post #144 of 163 Old 12-04-2018, 02:21 PM
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9-5???, can only make the highways so wide to dump 85% of the workforce on the roads from 0700-0830, & again from 1530-1700..
Isn't that why we build railways and public transport serving the suburbs (I've worked for the last 25 years in the UK and have only driven to work for about 3 of those 25 years when I lived in a small town.) Cars carrying single passengers on motorways / highways is one of the least efficient ways of transporting a workforce.
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post #145 of 163 Old 12-04-2018, 04:35 PM
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We are definitely procreating too much for the resources of the world, but traffic is an issue of poor development patterns, poor land use, lack of dense housing near where jobs are, lack of transit, and lack of transit oriented development, among other related factors.
I'm not part of the problem, my bloodline dies with me, yet I find a strange sense to reduce my footprint ...

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Isn't that why we build railways and public transport serving the suburbs (I've worked for the last 25 years in the UK and have only driven to work for about 3 of those 25 years when I lived in a small town.) Cars carrying single passengers on motorways / highways is one of the least efficient ways of transporting a workforce.
Public transportation here is considered a social pariah here, we didn't build the info-structure, nor is it made convenient with the exception of the larger urban areas. I sometimes would like that option, but it's not readily available.

I had to look up the TV spectrum's in the different regions, quite interesting. I only see Australia loping off the top of their band down to ch 52 (>700 mHz), other than the US (Americas).

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post #146 of 163 Old 12-04-2018, 05:27 PM
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I had to look up the TV spectrum's in the different regions, quite interesting. I only see Australia loping off the top of their band down to ch 52 (>700 mHz), other than the US (Americas).
The UK is clearing >700MHz too along with 18 other European countries. We've already cleared >800MHz with analogue switch off.
http://www.analysysmason.com/About-U...by-2020-Jul18/

As you can see Switzerland, Iceland, Sweden, Finland and Estonia are amongst those already out of 700MHz according to that article, with large parts of Europe due to be clear >700MHz within 18 months. Some countries that had left VHF for TV when they switched off analogue are now re-introducing VHF to help with this. Sweden and Finland both now have VHF DVB-T2 broadcasts.

It's also worth noting that some broadcasters are already shutting down OTA transmitters entirely. In Belgium, VRT closed it's terrestrial transmitters on 1st Dec. https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2018...tt-broadcasts/

Switzerland may well follow suit, and possibly the Netherlands. These countries have very high cable and satellite penetration, and OTA has very low take-up. The UK is a complete opposite - with OTA being the most-watched platform still. (We have no VHF TV in the UK, as VHF Bands I and III were used for our 405/50 line B&W service from the 30s to the 80s, and UHF was used for our 625 B&W then Colour services. Once 405 had closed our Band III was reallocated to DAB digital radio - at least in part)

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post #147 of 163 Old 12-05-2018, 01:43 PM
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Yep - but implemented properly the EITs will be delayed the same as the video. I guess the big difference here is that the networks do their own emission coding for OTA and satellite and so don't have to worry about delays from third party distribution. Cable here is always the poor relation though... It's always behind the curve.
The clocks are totally separate, so the transmission delays screw everything up.

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I'm not part of the problem, my bloodline dies with me, yet I find a strange sense to reduce my footprint ... .
You could argue that there is a public good in having better cell service and more competition with the 600mhz and 700mhz LTE bands.

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post #148 of 163 Old 12-05-2018, 02:05 PM
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You could argue that there is a public good in having better cell service and more competition with the 600mhz and 700mhz LTE bands.
I still use an antiquated flip phone, I have no interest or use, or a social life that commands a need for a monolithic device using such technology... I'm just saying.
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post #149 of 163 Old 12-05-2018, 04:45 PM
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There is certainly a public good in having better cell service and more competition. But there's also a public good in having adequate OTA broadcast spectrum for free TV. With respect to the 600 MHz band specifically, I never felt the former outweighed the latter

The 700 MHz band was different. There was clearly a lot of OTA spectrum going unused pre-transition, and some of the 700 MHz band went to uses that are clearly in the public interest.

As Sneals2000 noted, most of Europe has decided to allocate the 700 MHz band to non-OTA TV uses. But I think N. America is pretty unusual in chopping nearly another 100 MHz out of its OTA TV spectrum. (And yes, ATSC 3.0 promises eventually to alleviate the spectrum crunch - but this time, there will be no orderly transition, so getting there is going to be a mess.)
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post #150 of 163 Old 12-05-2018, 07:19 PM
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More political comments removed. Further strays into politics will draw infractions.

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