Chugiak, AK: UHF Antenna Help. - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 43 Old 04-22-2020, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Alaska Life View Post
ok I will try posting more and try to resend my pm again, I tried to sign up with TVFOOL but I guess they don't exist anymore or just don't have active admins, I have been waiting for almost a week for them to approve my account but still have yet to hear from them.
I almost forgot, this is my antenna
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/antenna...?skuId=5851201

its a one story home and the antenna is directly at the and of the peak on the west side so maybe about 15ft above the ground.

Im wondering if I could buy an amplifier or something although this antenna has a 60 mile range.

Thank you
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post #32 of 43 Old 04-22-2020, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Alaska Life View Post
Thank you for the report and the additional information. I will study it and get back to you.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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post #33 of 43 Old 04-22-2020, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Alaska Life View Post
ok I will try posting more and try to resend my pm again, I tried to sign up with TVFOOL but I guess they don't exist anymore or just don't have active admins, I have been waiting for almost a week for them to approve my account but still have yet to hear from them.
TVFool reports aren't as useful as they once were because of many errors in the database used to generate reports. Many people have had to wait a long time to be able to post on their forum. Their staff is very small and they haven't renewed their certificate, so the site isn't as secure as it was.

This is what your TVFool report looks like:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...903803faa18ff0



I will come back after I get some sleep.
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post #34 of 43 Old 04-23-2020, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Alaska Life View Post
I almost forgot, this is my antenna
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/antenna...?skuId=5851201

its a one story home and the antenna is directly at the and of the peak on the west side so maybe about 15ft above the ground.
Thank you for the antenna link. Your strong signals are UHF and VHF-High, so the CS 2MAX appears to be suitable for your location based on your signal report at first glance.

Quote:
Im wondering if I could buy an amplifier or something although this antenna has a 60 mile range.
Some of your signals are strong enough to overload an amplifier. I don't yet know your exact location, but when I look at the satellite view of your area I see a lot of trees in winter. The ground photos were taken in the summer and show a lot of trees that would block TV signals. If there are trees in the signals path, an amp might help.

The mileage figures for antennas are just a marketing tool; they can be used to compare different antennas in the same brand. What counts is the actual signal strength that arrives at your antenna. What good is a "60-mile" antenna if you are behind a hill that is only 5 miles away, or your location is surrounded by many trees?



https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=82736



Quote:
all the channels come in fine except for FOX 4-1 and KTVA 11-1
You have channels in 3 different directions. How is your reception of CBS and Fox if you aim your antenna directly at 224 degrees?

Your VHF channels are at 280 degrees, so the dipole should be aimed broadside to that direction, but I don't think you can do that with the 2MAX like you could with the 2V when the UHF loops are aimed at 224.

https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/2020-PDF-QS/ClearStream-2MAX-Quick-Start--C2MVJ-.pdf

KTVA CBS, virtual channel 11-1, real channel 28 and KTBY Fox, virtual channel 4-1, real channel 20 are not only your weakest desired channels but they also have terrain interference to their signals:



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post #35 of 43 Old 04-23-2020, 01:37 PM
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Thank you for the antenna link. Your strong signals are UHF and VHF-High, so the CS 2MAX appears to be suitable for your location based on your signal report at first glance.

Some of your signals are strong enough to overload an amplifier. I don't yet know your exact location, but when I look at the satellite view of your area I see a lot of trees in winter. The ground photos were taken in the summer and show a lot of trees that would block TV signals. If there are trees in the signals path, an amp might help.

The mileage figures for antennas are just a marketing tool; they can be used to compare different antennas in the same brand. What counts is the actual signal strength that arrives at your antenna. What good is a "60-mile" antenna if you are behind a hill that is only 5 miles away, or your location is surrounded by many trees?



https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=82736



You have channels in 3 different directions. How is your reception of CBS and Fox if you aim your antenna directly at 224 degrees?

Your VHF channels are at 280 degrees, so the dipole should be aimed broadside to that direction, but I don't think you can do that with the 2MAX like you could with the 2V when the UHF loops are aimed at 224.

https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/2020-PDF-QS/ClearStream-2MAX-Quick-Start--C2MVJ-.pdf

KTVA CBS, virtual channel 11-1, real channel 28 and KTBY Fox, virtual channel 4-1, real channel 20 are not only your weakest desired channels but they also have terrain interference to their signals:



i went out and it was pointing about 270, I turned it now its at 224 with about the same result, 4-1 and 11-1 both have 0% strength after a rescan, I have some birch trees in the view and no hills or mountains, maybe I should raise it higher than 15' ?


Thank you
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post #36 of 43 Old 04-23-2020, 04:06 PM
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i went out and it was pointing about 270, I turned it now its at 224 with about the same result, 4-1 and 11-1 both have 0% strength after a rescan, I have some birch trees in the view and no hills or mountains, maybe I should raise it higher than 15' ?
I think it's worth a try. If nothing, try a preamp.

Are any of your neighbors able to receive those two channels?

I wonder if they are on the air; rabbitears.info says they are.

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post #37 of 43 Old 04-23-2020, 04:43 PM
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I think it's worth a try. If nothing, try a preamp.

Are any of your neighbors able to receive those two channels?

I wonder if they are on the air; rabbitears.info says they are.



naw, most everyone around here uses either satellite or cable, I'm one of the happy ones that "cut the cord" and went with Hulu and Netflix.


I did notice that this antenna is mounted crooked, must be off by at least 20 degrees, so when I turned it to point to 224 degrees it actually points up a bit so im sure at the other end its aiming at a cloud or something, I think this weekend I will take it down and remount it straight on an extension pole and repoint it to 224 degrees and check the signal, I will keep you posted with the results.


Thank you
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post #38 of 43 Old 04-30-2020, 03:31 PM
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I think it's worth a try. If nothing, try a preamp.

ok so I went out and re mounted my antenna on a 5 foot pole so now its about 20ft high, now it's straight and level, pointed back to 224 degrees and channels 11-1 and 4-1 both show 0% signal, you had mentioned a preamp, can you recommend
one that would work with this antenna or let me know what I would be looking for in a preamp? Hopefully super powerful!

Thank you
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post #39 of 43 Old 05-01-2020, 03:35 PM
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ok so I went out and re mounted my antenna on a 5 foot pole so now its about 20ft high, now it's straight and level, pointed back to 224 degrees and channels 11-1 and 4-1 both show 0% signal,
Thank you for making the test with the remounted antenna. A 0% signal is not good news; I had hoped there would be at least a little signal.

What are you using to receive and measure your signals?

Quote:
you had mentioned a preamp, can you recommend one that would work with this antenna or let me know what I would be looking for in a preamp? Hopefully super powerful!

Thank you
I can understand your desire to have a powerful (high gain) preamp, but solving your reception problem isn't going to be easy because there are two sources of strong signals that might overload a preamp and/or a tuner, making it difficult to receive the much weaker CBS and Fox. Maybe that's why silvershark, who started this thread, had a difficult time.

So, you must be prepared to do some experiments to find out what will make it possible to receive CBS and Fox. I can make some suggestions of what to try, but I can't make a guarantee that my advice will work because I'm way down here in Virginia, and I don't know what your location looks like.

The first source of possible overload is from KDMD and KLDY that are only 3.9 miles away at 178 degrees. When your antenna is aimed at 225 degrees for CBS and Fox, KDMD and KLDY will still be quite strong because your antenna has a very wide beamwidth. It might be necessary to switch to an antenna with a much narrower beamwidth so that when it is aimed at CBS and Fox, they will be stronger but KDMD and KLDY will be much weaker by comparison.

The second source of possible overload is from some strong FM transmitters also from 178 degrees. If they are going to cause interference, it would first be to your VHF-High signals in yellow on your report like NBC and ABC. Sometimes FM signals can be strong enough to cause difficult reception of UHF signals. It is possible to add an FM filter before a preamp and some preamps have an FM filter but it usually isn't as effective a separate FM filter.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/f...6/Radar-FM.png



The two preamps I have in mind are the Antennas Direct Juice and the Channel Master 7778V3. The Juice is very resistant to overload; it has an LTE filter but no FM filter. The 7778V3 is a little less resistant to overload, but has an FM filter.

The more directional UHF antennas I have in mind for CBS and Fox are the Antennas Direct 91XG and the Solid Signal HDB91X. You could use a UVSJ to combine the UHF antenna with the 2MAX which would then be for VHF only.

If there are trees in the signal path, overload might not be a problem. Maybe you could show us a photo of what the antenna "sees" when it is aimed at 225.

A satellite photo taken in winter shows a lot of bare trees. An old ground photo shows trees thick enough to block TV signals.
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post #40 of 43 Old 05-02-2020, 01:36 PM
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What are you using to receive and measure your signals?

I'm using my TV for the signal, its pointing toward several trees, I had no issues last summer with the other channels and right now there are no leaves so I would think it would give some sort of signal but it's at 0% still.

This is what this antenna is looking at 225 degrees, actually maybe like 3 feet higher cause I couldn't reach that far, im not sure how much more money I want to dump into this as new antennas aren't cheap, that's why I thought maybe a preamp and call it good but I don't know enough about all this so if a preamp won't work either I might just call it good enough.


Thank you
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post #41 of 43 Old 05-02-2020, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Alaska Life View Post
I'm using my TV for the signal, its pointing toward several trees, I had no issues last summer with the other channels and right now there are no leaves so I would think it would give some sort of signal but it's at 0% still.

This is what this antenna is looking at 225 degrees, actually maybe like 3 feet higher cause I couldn't reach that far, im not sure how much more money I want to dump into this as new antennas aren't cheap, that's why I thought maybe a preamp and call it good but I don't know enough about all this so if a preamp won't work either I might just call it good enough.
Thank you for the photo. I've see worse, but you have trees that are close, and more in the distance. The closer trees are doing the most harm to CBS and Fox.


http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html
Scroll down to Trees and UHF
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post #42 of 43 Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM
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Thank you for the photo. I've see worse, but you have trees that are close, and more in the distance. The closer trees are doing the most harm to CBS and Fox.


http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/siting.html
Scroll down to Trees and UHF
so a small update on this, I read the FCC webpage to "Periodically re scan until July 2020 due to changes in the TV band", so I did that last week at about 7am and channel 11-1 came in clear as a bell, then later about 11:00am it was a super choppy signal, I checked it the next morning and it was clear again, later choppy and is still like that now, I re checked the signal and it bobs between 84% and 0%.


I haven't moved the antenna since the last time I moved it per your instructions, might this be some sort of fine tuning issue now or a booster to purchase, im not understanding why it works only at night it seems, something to do with the sun maybe?


Thank you
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post #43 of 43 Old Yesterday, 04:24 PM
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at about 7am channel 11-1 came in clear as a bell, then later about 11:00am it was a super choppy signal, I checked it the next morning and it was clear again, later choppy and is still like that now.

im not understanding why it works only at night it seems, something to do with the sun maybe?
That is correct, the sun creates a heating effect on the surface of the earth every day and a cooling effect at night. This changes the atmospheric conditions which affect the signal on its way to your location. Since 11-1 is one of your weakest desired signals and marginal, it doesn't take much reduction of signal strength for it to drop out.

The only suggestions I can think of are:
1. Remove the trees that are directly in front of the antenna
2. Raise the antenna above the trees
3. Add a medium gain preamp which might or might not help

I have a tree in front of my indoor antenna. On a windy day it really messes with the signals.

The GE29884 on the left works the best for UHF and VHF:



Videos; they take a while to load:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gsw9t1zsr...Path2.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ig3va499k237ayu/CH16TreeInPath4.mp4?dl=0

A more stable signal looks like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vrc82x4u45...31-20.mp4?dl=0
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