AVS Official Topic: The FCC and Television Spectrum Repack - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 485 Old 11-09-2017, 11:49 AM
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OK, well, that makes more sense to me.

There still seems to be a disconnect between LMS and CDBS. They're all in LMS (and RabbitEars.Info) but the only one I found in CDBS was the KTXA one. I guess the others will feed over eventually, but I'm going ahead and changing my browser's "t" query to use RabbitEars instead of the FCC's TV query.
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post #242 of 485 Old 11-10-2017, 02:07 AM - Thread Starter
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The backport code from LMS to CDBS can be a bit... flaky. I'm in the midst of trying to get RabbitEars moved over to LMS, but it's slow-going and will likely be done in pieces. I'm mostly done with the main listings, but I can't move them over until the coverage map code is done, and that's still a work in progress.

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post #243 of 485 Old 12-16-2017, 03:05 PM
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A recent article in Forbes says that Telemundo has bought 13 stations from a company called ZGS. But several of the stations are ones that surrendered their RF allocations in the spectrum auction. What advantage does Telemundo gain by acquiring a station that has no RF allocation? Couldn't Telemundo just contract with a local broadcast station that does have an RF allocation and become a subchannel of that station without going through the time and expense of purchasing a spectrumless station first?
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post #244 of 485 Old 12-18-2017, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
A recent article in Forbes says that Telemundo has bought 13 stations from a company called ZGS. But several of the stations are ones that surrendered their RF allocations in the spectrum auction. What advantage does Telemundo gain by acquiring a station that has no RF allocation? Couldn't Telemundo just contract with a local broadcast station that does have an RF allocation and become a subchannel of that station without going through the time and expense of purchasing a spectrumless station first?
There are several ways of looking at it:

- It's a buy of ZGS as a whole. ZGS comes with those four licenses as part of the deal. It's like buying a house and saying you don't want some of the bedrooms, so why not exclude it from the sale? If you don't like those bedrooms, you buy them as part of the house and then demolish them if you hate them that much.
- If the Telemundo affiliation agreement isn't up, then buying the licenses probably is the way to avoid paying a termination fee or similar, supposing the licenses were sold to someone else rather than turned in.
- The existing Telemundo licenses have cable carriage agreements/channel placements that would have to be renegotiated if NBC pulled the affiliation and relaunched it independently. And again, if the licenses were sold to someone else, depending on the wording of the agreement, the new owner with the alternate programming could wind up in that spot instead of Telemundo.
- Having a channel sharing license gives NBC more legal rights to its spot on someone else's spectrum than simply leasing a subchannel.

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post #245 of 485 Old 01-03-2018, 12:41 PM
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T-Mobile is moving aggressively to begin 600MHz operations in the Wichita Falls, TX area: https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...602819ccde3a1d

K44GS (a translator for KERA, North Texas's PBS affiliate) was granted STA to operate on RF 26 instead of RF 44, and has applied to move there permanently. The FCC will consider their permanent application once the filing freeze is lifted. https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...604b3162cd10cb

I assume T-Mobile helped compensate K44GS for the move, as was announced earlier in this thread.
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post #246 of 485 Old 01-04-2018, 05:51 PM
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You can even say moving very aggressively: 264 low power stations displaced, 19 sponsored full power/class A relocations.


http://www.spectrumgateway.com/600-mhz-spectrum
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post #247 of 485 Old 01-04-2018, 07:59 PM
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I was unaware of T-Mobile buying early relocations in several markets. Of course that will mean an extra rescan for OTA viewers in those markets.
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post #248 of 485 Old 01-17-2018, 08:41 AM
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Was the Incentive Auction Necessary?

20B is nothing to sneeze at, but it represents only a fraction of what was originally expected

TVTechnology
January 16, 2018
By Doug Irwin

WASHINGTON—If you work in either radio or TV and are about to embark on a “repack” project (as I am) then what you are about to read may not seem very amusing at all.

The incentive auction has been over for quite some time, and we can now point to the following facts:
Verizon indicated initially that they were going to participate, but in the end, did not
AT&T is already selling the 600 MHz spectrum that it picked up
Sprint never participated
T-mobile ends up the only one of the big four that collected a substantial amount of 600 MHz spectrum

full article here:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/opinions...cessary/282577

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post #249 of 485 Old 01-17-2018, 09:10 AM
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This whole deal is a POS drummed up by a bunch of self serving Capitalistic P's that only care about their deep pockets. OTA viewership is dropping and this only make matters worse since Joe & Jill Sixpack have little clue what is going on and will just 'chuck' relying on OTA for anything.

Everyone else LOOSES, period!

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #250 of 485 Old 01-17-2018, 09:27 AM
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But on another note, not that anyone cares judging by the lack of any posts, that low power WBXZ physical 17, virtual 56 has been off the air for some time now. Possibly over a month. I noticed it some time back, but just though they were down temporary, but I guess not.

Not a loss, their quality ranked as worse than the worst. They made that short lived "TV-6" microwave station from the 70's look good.

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #251 of 485 Old 01-17-2018, 09:55 AM
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https://www.wbxztv.com/about-us.html

We will continue to grow and improve our programing in 2018. Because of our low power status, local cable and satellite services are not required to carry our signal.

Don't know how any station can survive without carriage...
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post #252 of 485 Old 01-17-2018, 11:05 AM
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LPTV stations usually get by with a generous helping of infomercial and religious broadcasts, who always seem willing to pay to reach a few more eyeballs. Sometimes, they even get programming popular enough that MVPDs want to carry them, as was true of our old Retro TV affiliate for a while. But it's not hard to mismanage them into oblivion. WBXZ sounds a lot like KVFW in the D/FW area.
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post #253 of 485 Old 01-17-2018, 04:22 PM
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The web site has their rabbitears.info coverage map posted:

https://www.wbxztv.com/where-to-watch.html
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post #254 of 485 Old 01-19-2018, 11:29 AM
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I finally got around and finished 600 MHz maps: there is now a map of speculators including pending sales of AT&T spectrum to Northwood Ventures and Columbia Capital and a map of small regional carriers.
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post #255 of 485 Old 03-12-2018, 09:10 AM
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Regarding the Channel Plus LPF-600 Low Pass Filter, I purchased two of these this past winter and tested them. Network analyzer screenshots are attached, the file name should explain what was being measured. I did several frequency and amplitude spans to better show measurements.

The final image shows the frequency response with markers set for the span that includes channels 34-37 plus the beginning of Band 71, channel A.

Summary:
Ch 34 -> -3.4 to - 5.0 dB IL
Ch 35 -> -5.0 to - 8.4 dB IL
Ch 36 -> -8.4 to -13.5 dB IL
Band 71, channel A -> -25 dB IL

A weak station on channel 36 will probably get wiped out. You'd need a signal strong enough to overcome that -13.5 dB IL at the upper edge of channel 36 as well as a tuner that can handle the ~ 5 dB tilt across the channel's bandwidth. Channel 35 has almost an 8 and a half dB of insertion loss at its high end so there's still a significant penalty. The -3 dB point for the filters, not shown on the plots, was measured at 588.5 MHz for both filters.

Both filters were very consistent with each other with only very minor variations in response. Only one filter's results are included.
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post #256 of 485 Old 03-12-2018, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Regarding the Channel Plus LPF-600 Low Pass Filter, I purchased two of these this past winter and tested them. Network analyzer screenshots are attached, the file name should explain what was being measured. I did several frequency and amplitude spans to better show measurements.

The final image shows the frequency response with markers set for the span that includes channels 34-37 plus the beginning of Band 71, channel A.

Summary:
Ch 34 -> -3.4 to - 5.0 dB IL
Ch 35 -> -5.0 to - 8.4 dB IL
Ch 36 -> -8.4 to -13.5 dB IL
Band 71, channel A -> -25 dB IL

A weak station on channel 36 will probably get wiped out. You'd need a signal strong enough to overcome that -13.5 dB IL at the upper edge of channel 36 as well as a tuner that can handle the ~ 5 dB tilt across the channel's bandwidth. Channel 35 has almost an 8 and a half dB of insertion loss at its high end so there's still a significant penalty. The -3 dB point for the filters, not shown on the plots, was measured at 588.5 MHz for both filters.

Both filters were very consistent with each other with only very minor variations in response. Only one filter's results are included.
That does not appear usable in markets that have stations above channel 34. Probably the right medicine for some reception situations.

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post #257 of 485 Old 03-12-2018, 03:33 PM
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I live in the Chicago area (Western Suburbs). Which of these channels would I lose or have an issue with the LPF-600?
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post #258 of 485 Old 03-12-2018, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncsercs View Post
I live in the Chicago area (Western Suburbs). Which of these channels would I lose or have an issue with the LPF-600?
You have to look at your repacked channels.

https://www.rabbitears.info/repackch...=&lss=&status=

Looks like WCPX ends up on 34 and WGBO on 35.

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #259 of 485 Old 03-12-2018, 05:45 PM
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And it will depend on the signal strength of your repacked channels. I wish TVFool would/could update their database so that the "Pending Applications Included" option would estimate your post-repack reception. But they still don't even have the pre-repack database quite right!

Of course, you may not need an LTE filter at all. Depends on whether you wind up with cell towers so close they overload your tuners.
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post #260 of 485 Old 03-12-2018, 07:21 PM
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I'm in Westmont, IL. The closest tower to me is in Countryside, IL. (AT&T) which is at least 3-4 miles.

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post #261 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 04:13 AM
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ATT's towers are not going to cause an issue requiring a 600 MHz filter since they didn't buy any of that spectrum.
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post #262 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncsercs View Post
I'm in Westmont, IL. The closest tower to me is in Countryside, IL. (AT&T) which is at least 3-4 miles.
That's really far for an area so densely populated. What makes you sure there isn't a tower closer to you? (T-Mobile is the carrier you have to watch out for, with respect to 600 MHz.)

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post #263 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 09:05 AM
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I'm around here.....

Is there a site that can tell me accurately where all the towers in my area are?
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post #264 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncsercs View Post
I'm around here.....

Is there a site that can tell me accurately where all the towers in my area are?
https://www.cellmapper.net/

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post #265 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 11:37 AM
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3-4 miles isn't too close. I think you'll be fine.

I don't think AT&T will be using the 600 MHz band anyway. From what I've read, it'll be pretty much just Verizon using 600 MHz.

Of course, all that may change with time, but for now at least, it doesn't sound like you need to worry about filtering 600 MHz.
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post #266 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
3-4 miles isn't too close. I think you'll be fine.

I don't think AT&T will be using the 600 MHz band anyway. From what I've read, it'll be pretty much just Verizon using 600 MHz.

Of course, all that may change with time, but for now at least, it doesn't sound like you need to worry about filtering 600 MHz.
Verizon bought the 700MHz band, T-Mobile got 600MHz.

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post #267 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
Verizon bought the 700MHz band, T-Mobile got 600MHz.
Thanks for the correction.

I'm gonna go check on my nearest T-Mobile tower(s) now....

Edit: Of course now I realize we really can't find most of the 600 MHz towers yet! Have to wait until after repacking just to see where they'll be.

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post #268 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 12:53 PM
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T-Mo has been turning on 600 MHz band towers now for several months.

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post #269 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 01:00 PM
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Yes, if you're in one of the areas where T-Mobile's 600 MHz towers are already operational, cellmapper.net seems to have them mapped.

But if you're in a metro area where they can't operate on 600 MHz yet, I guess the best you can do is to look for T-Mobile's existing towers.
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post #270 of 485 Old 03-13-2018, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
T-Mo has been turning on 600 MHz band towers now for several months.
Have Antennas Direct ever considered importing or licensing the XB16A antenna? It has very high gain and directivity tailored to the new UHF band. It looks ideal for post-repack, except for the overseas shipping hassle. @Calaveras has a nice overlay of the gain plots. I know, not invented here and other considerations for your business that we as consumers aren't much concerned with.

Edit: this antenna is a good first line of defense against unwanted LTE signals, although of course it can't solve the most egregious problems on it's own.

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Last edited by lifespeed; 03-13-2018 at 01:37 PM.
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