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post #91 of 206 Old 01-17-2018, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a link to the manual for the RCA TVPRAMP1Z which I use although with just one antenna. You have to switch the unit to use two antennas as it indicates. It also has a switchable FM trap.

http://www.rcaantennas.net/docs/comm...PRAMP1R_OM.pdf
Very nice.. Looks like the mfg 's own instructions indicate it can be used with separate antennas... This is good news for what I want to do ..... Best bet would be to put a rotator on just the UHF antenna to keep the weight load down.. All the VHF stations I can get are in line with each other-Binghamton and Scranton, and they are all High VHF...
However, there are a bunch of channels out of Elmira/Corning maybe 60 degrees west of here the antenna is pointed now..

Next step is getting the RCA booster here, raising the mast another 10 or so feet , try aiming it towards every cluster of stations and see what I come up with..
If I continue to get good signal with what I have , I have no real need for anything other than the little GE VHF/UHF unit thats already up there.. Another 10 feet, may[ or may not] get me the added signal strength I need for WNEP... We'll see how it develops, but with what I have here now for antennas, I know that I'll be able to get everything thats up there... At one time or another over the past 3 months or so,I have had around 50 stations tuned in well , depending on how I had the antenna pointed..
Of course many are repeats, redundancies, or just plain LOUSY stations.
It would seem a rotator would really make sense to maximize my channel selection, and I may go that route, depending on what happens with the new preamp, and raising the GE antenna.. If that brings in more Scranton UHF stations, I would have no need for all of the Elmira stations, although they often come through anyway off the side/back of the antenna... Thanks again to all, for good advice, good information and for very entertaining and enlightening discussion!... bob
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post #92 of 206 Old 01-17-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by steel guitar guy View Post
Very nice.. Looks like the mfg 's own instructions indicate it can be used with separate antennas... This is good news for what I want to do ..... Best bet would be to put a rotator on just the UHF antenna to keep the weight load down.. All the VHF stations I can get are in line with each other-Binghamton and Scranton, and they are all High VHF...
However, there are a bunch of channels out of Elmira/Corning maybe 60 degrees west of here the antenna is pointed now..

Next step is getting the RCA booster here, raising the mast another 10 or so feet , try aiming it towards every cluster of stations and see what I come up with..
If I continue to get good signal with what I have , I have no real need for anything other than the little GE VHF/UHF unit thats already up there.. Another 10 feet, may[ or may not] get me the added signal strength I need for WNEP... We'll see how it develops, but with what I have here now for antennas, I know that I'll be able to get everything thats up there... At one time or another over the past 3 months or so,I have had around 50 stations tuned in well , depending on how I had the antenna pointed..
Of course many are repeats, redundancies, or just plain LOUSY stations.
It would seem a rotator would really make sense to maximize my channel selection, and I may go that route, depending on what happens with the new preamp, and raising the GE antenna.. If that brings in more Scranton UHF stations, I would have no need for all of the Elmira stations, although they often come through anyway off the side/back of the antenna... Thanks again to all, for good advice, good information and for very entertaining and enlightening discussion!... bob
I have the indoor/attic version of the GE antenna similar to yours and I have used it to help me narrow down where signals are coming from using the signal meter on a Zenith 901 converter box which I mentioned earlier. The GE is highly directional with weak signals and using the RCA preamp helps with those stations. Another good preamp is the Radio Shack 15-321 which has a bit more sensitivity on weaker UHF stations. I can't comment as much with VHF as that is not a problem at my location but when I did try the Radio Shack preamp about a year ago and comparing it to the RCA, it cut the signal a bit on RF 8 here so that might be the FM trap at work. You see them on eBay here and there. It only has one input though but two outputs and has an adjustable gain. The booster just overloads the tuner so that is no help at my location.

One thing I know is that I had to try various spots until I found one location that worked for one weak station I was trying to receive. Mounting the antenna higher did not help so that is not always the answer. I'm sure as you keep experimenting with different antennas or locations you will find the right spot.
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post #93 of 206 Old 01-17-2018, 05:59 PM
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Best bet would be to put a rotator on just the UHF antenna to keep the weight load down.. All the VHF stations I can get are in line with each other-Binghamton and Scranton, and they are all High VHF...
However, there are a bunch of channels out of Elmira/Corning maybe 60 degrees west of where the antenna is pointed now..

bob
Sounds like a good plan: point the SL VHF antenna at Scranton and put the SL UHF antenna on a rotator. In your environment, with higher-gain antennas a rotator is probably a must.

Which reminds me: I wonder whatever happened to "smart" antennas? Back in 2009 they were supposed to be the Next Big Thing, sort of a virtual rotator; all you had to do was connect the "smart" antenna to a compatible tuner with a special cable. The tuner would put the smart antenna through all its settings (typically 16 per frequency) and lock in the best setting for each station.

But only a couple of smart antenna tuners ever hit the market, which made it pretty tough to sell smart antennas! I wonder why? Was it too tough to get the secret specs to design a smart-antenna-compatible tuner? It couldn't have been very expensive: I have one of those $40 converter boxes with a smart antenna connection!
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post #94 of 206 Old 01-17-2018, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like a good plan: point the SL VHF antenna at Scranton and put the SL UHF antenna on a rotator. In your environment, with higher-gain antennas a rotator is probably a must.

Which reminds me: I wonder whatever happened to "smart" antennas? Back in 2009 they were supposed to be the Next Big Thing, sort of a virtual rotator; all you had to do was connect the "smart" antenna to a compatible tuner with a special cable. The tuner would put the smart antenna through all its settings (typically 16 per frequency) and lock in the best setting for each station.

But only a couple of smart antenna tuners ever hit the market, which made it pretty tough to sell smart antennas! I wonder why? Was it too tough to get the secret specs to design a smart-antenna-compatible tuner? It couldn't have been very expensive: I have one of those $40 converter boxes with a smart antenna connection!
Well, they have "smart" rotators anyway.. Hit the channel button and the rotor automatically points in the direction of that particular station.. thats not too bad...
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post #95 of 206 Old 01-18-2018, 06:48 AM
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This one looks nice: https://www.amazon.com/AUDIOVOX-Remo.../dp/B008468PWC. They're still mechanical, though, and take a while to physically rotate the antenna to the proper heading. Smart antennas were supposed to be instant (or at least as fast as you could surf)! Seemed like such a good idea, but then, nothing....

I think maybe if they hadn't locked out DIY'ers with their proprietary control interface that you had to sign an NDA to get access to, they may have done better....

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post #96 of 206 Old 01-18-2018, 08:47 AM
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The only disadvantage of rotors is the lack of integration with tuners/DVRs/PCs. This breaks the way the modern world uses TV, which is usually automated recording and time shifting. However, depending on your willingness to use new tech and number of transmitter directions you need to receive, there is an alternative: networked tuners from SiliconDust, one per antenna, fed to a media server PC running a DVR back end, I prefer Emby. This allows DVR-ing of your antennae with seamless selection of the tuned antenna by channel. This is done inside the tuner by enabling/disabling the channels you want each tuner to receive. Emby software automatically accesses the appropriate tuner by channel. The wife and kids don't even know it is happening, just tune a channel and the right tuner/antenna combo comes online. Personally I use two antennae with a tuner for each, "digitally combining" I guess you could say, which avoids the issues of joining the same frequencies using coax.

You don't have to be a complete computer geek to make this happen, the software is within reason for most. As an added benefit Emby makes all your media and live TV available to any device on your home network or even remotely over the internet. PC, Mac, Android, iOS and even some of those media streamer boxes/sticks. Emby is also a DLNA server, so if your TV is up to the task it can stream direct to the screen without any additional hardware.
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post #97 of 206 Old 01-25-2018, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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So I blew up my little cheapo "in line ,behind the set, $7.95 signal booster.-. had it out in the snow playing with antennas.. Might have gotten wet.. It got HOT, and just quit...
I ordered the RCA preamp online from Wally, and for $2 extra got 2 years warranty beyond the 1 year that RCA gives which in itself is better than most.. So if it burns up within 3 years, i'm good..
It was at the store for pickup in 2 days.

I hooked it up behind the set as it was freezing out, and it worked nicely. The graph/number signal meter on the set showed about the same as the inline booster did,,- that cheap inline little booster claimed 20dB, and really did help until I blew it up.. So now that I knew that the RCA unit worked, I got "antsy" and got up on a ladder, took my antenna down in 20 degree weather, and put the preamp on the mast.. Re scanned and found some UHF channels out of Hazelton Pa.I hadn't seen before, WOLF-TV..
More repeats of what already have in 2 other markets, but its the first time I ever saw it on my set...The RCA was doing its job

WNEP was there, and was consistent all afternoon, all last night and all day today even at high noon when before it was always dropping out or pixelating.. WNEP was the station I wanted most, and it seems it won't be a problem, as it seems more consistent with the RCA booster in the mix.. I scanned 41 channels... Thats with that tiny GE antenna pointing in one direction,, With a rotor, I can honestly say I would get 50+, but as they are all duplicate or triplicates why bother?..
thats what I get for getting all my signals from 3 small markets within 100 miles.. All the majors from each market, all the PBS, and most of the subchannels are repeats. the same stuff from each market.. 3 Laff/3 Ion/ 3 Fox/ABC/NBC/CBS etc... However, considering I am getting dependable signals over the Endless Mountains of Pa, from 75 miles away, UHF and VHF, and still have enough antenna/amplifier strength to catch stations on the backside, I am pretty impressed with what I am getting up here in the hills, with huge powerlines 15 feet away from the antenna that I have to shoot through as well as a line of trees i have no hope of avoiding totally.. Looks as though i bought 2 BIG, "deep fringe" antennas for no reason.. I will have to see what happens as the weather warms up, but right now, getting 41 channels with another 12 or so readily available just by turning the antenna is pretty impressive for this area..

The signal quality graph /number indicator is really no higher than it was with the cheap little booster, but seems much more steady, not jumping around near as much.. Might only show say 40 or even 35, but it STAYS there, doesn't drop to 0 and start pixelating/dropping out.....
It was well worth the $25 spent!

I can get much stronger signal from the 2 big antennas, but if i am getting a good clean picture at 40, why do I need 75??.. If there was more stuff to catch up in the air, I might go whole hog, but its all just more of the same.. Rochester/Syracuse/Buffalo are not going to happen, so its the little markets of Scranton/Binghamton/Elmira I am stuck with.. I can't complain however, there are folks that would be VERY happy with what I have I suppose.
I'll keep updating on this thread as changes are made... bob

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post #98 of 206 Old 01-25-2018, 01:45 PM
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So now that I knew that the RCA unit worked, I got "antsy" and got up on a ladder, took my antenna down in 20 degree weather, and put the preamp on the mast.. Re scanned and found some UHF channels out of Hazelton Pa.I hadn't seen before, WOLF-TV.
Congratulations! It looks like the improved noise margin gained by placing the amp on the mast did some good.

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Looks as though i bought 2 BIG, "deep fringe" antennas for no reason.. I will have to see what happens as the weather warms up, but right now, getting 41 channels with another 12 or so readily available just by turning the antenna is pretty impressive for this area.
You may need some history through different atmospheric conditions to prove you have 100% reliable reception. Might not want to toss the high-gain antenna just yet, although it does sound like the little GE is not bad.

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The signal quality graph /number indicator is really no higher than it was with the cheap little booster, but seems much more steady, not jumping around near as much.. Might only show say 40 or even 35, but it STAYS there, doesn't drop to 0 and start pixelating/dropping out.....
It was well worth the $25 spent!
The signal quality graph is showing the improvement from removing the noise caused by coax cable loss ahead of the preamp.

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I can get much stronger signal from the 2 big antennas, but if i am getting a good clean picture at 40, why do I need 75??.. If there was more stuff to catch up in the air, I might go whole hog, but its all just more of the same.. Rochester/Syracuse/Buffalo are not going to happen, so its the little markets of Scranton/Binghamton/Elmira I am stuck with.. I can't complain however, there are folks that would be VERY happy with what I have I suppose.
I'll keep updating on this thread as changes are made... bob
The reason you want a bigger number is it provides margin against loss of picture as reception conditions change. You aren't looking at a signal strength number, rather signal quality indicating how much margin you have before decoding of the signal fails. A higher gain antenna will provide more of the same improvement as moving the amp up the pole did.

Of course if you get completely reliable reception there is no reason to change your setup. If you start losing picture at dusk, or other atmospheric condition changes, you know what to try next. Glad to hear you're making good progress.
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post #99 of 206 Old 01-25-2018, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Congratulations! It looks like the improved noise margin gained by placing the amp on the mast did some good.



You may need some history through different atmospheric conditions to prove you have 100% reliable reception. Might not want to toss the high-gain antenna just yet, although it does sound like the little GE is not bad.



The signal quality graph is showing the improvement from removing the noise caused by coax cable loss ahead of the preamp.



The reason you want a bigger number is it provides margin against loss of picture as reception conditions change. You aren't looking at a signal strength number, rather signal quality indicating how much margin you have before decoding of the signal fails. A higher gain antenna will provide more of the same improvement as moving the amp up the pole did.

Of course if you get completely reliable reception there is no reason to change your setup. If you start losing picture at dusk, or other atmospheric condition changes, you know what to try next. Glad to hear your making good progress.
"

Thank you Lifespeed for the encouragement and kind words..
No I am NOT going to get rid of the "big guns" yet.. They ARE strong, I can tell just by screwing around with them on the deck.. They will lock on to all the available stations I have been getting here, with NO amp, just me standing on the 3 foot high deck with a pole over my head.. Up on the roof with a booster, everything would be locked solid...No question...
However they are also big heavy wind catchers that will mean a LOT of work, and possibly professional installation up on my high very steep roof.. I am hoping to avoid that.. we'll see.. At dusk, ALL my signals get stronger, both UHF and VHF..
Mid day from about 11 am till about 3-3:30 they aren't as strong or steady on some channels, but I rarely watch TV then anyway.. Later on after 4 PM or so, they just get stronger through the evening.. I typically scan 7-10 more stations at night or early morning than I do mid day, and the stations from elmira that I get on the "back side" of the antenna, are less likely to pixelate after dark.. no great loss anyway, they are all repeats any except for a Corning station has Comet TV on a subchannel that I am mildly interested in, and can get easily by hand turning the antenna .. I was thinking about using a separate cheap UHF antenna for that channel, but not a rotator.. Its not that great a channel..

I am hoping some of the local markets shake things up in their subchannel lineup and get Heroes and Icons, or Movies! or something like that... We'll see what the future holds.. meantime, its actually been a lot of fun, and I have learned quite a bit, especially about how much "noise" can affect a TV signal.... Next up is taking 15-20 or so feet off the Coax length into the house... I doubt it will do much, but I will keep notes, and report my observations here .. bob

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post #100 of 206 Old 01-25-2018, 03:28 PM
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Your intuition is right - only coax length before the amp is important, doesn't matter between the amp and tuner. You may not watch TV between 11AM and 3PM, but really that is just an indication of a marginal setup that is made apparent as conditions change. In my location I would get good reception most of the day, but it would break up at dusk, showing me I needed a more directional antenna. After re-configuring, the breakups have not been seen since.

A strong antenna is better than a weak antenna and an amp. This is not to say your GE is a bad antenna, just a general rule. Understood regarding a more difficult installation for the large antenna. Also agree antenna rotors are a last resort as they aren't DVR-friendly.

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post #101 of 206 Old 01-25-2018, 04:12 PM
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"

Thank you Lifespeed for the encouragement and kind words..
No I am NOT going to get rid of the "big guns" yet.. They ARE strong, I can tell just by screwing around with them on the deck.. They will lock on to all the available stations I have been getting here, with NO amp, just me standing on the 3 foot high deck with a pole over my head.. Up on the roof with a booster, everything would be locked solid...No question...
However they are also big heavy wind catchers that will mean a LOT of work, and possibly professional installation up on my high very steep roof.. I am hoping to avoid that.. we'll see.. At dusk, ALL my signals get stronger, both UHF and VHF..
Mid day from about 11 am till about 3-3:30 they aren't as strong or steady on some channels, but I rarely watch TV then anyway.. Later on after 4 PM or so, they just get stronger through the evening.. I typically scan 7-10 more stations at night or early morning than I do mid day, and the stations from elmira that I get on the "back side" of the antenna, are less likely to pixelate after dark.. no great loss anyway, they are all repeats any except for a Corning station has Comet TV on a subchannel that I am mildly interested in, and can get easily by hand turning the antenna .. I was thinking about using a separate cheap UHF antenna for that channel, but not a rotator.. Its not that great a channel..

I am hoping some of the local markets shake things up in their subchannel lineup and get Heroes and Icons, or Movies! or something like that... We'll see what the future holds.. meantime, its actually been a lot of fun, and I have learned quite a bit, especially about how much "noise" can affect a TV signal.... Next up is taking 15-20 or so feet off the Coax length into the house... I doubt it will do much, but I will keep notes, and report my observations here .. bob
Glad to hear that the RCA helped your situation. I have found that the station that is the furthest and weakest comes in better in the evenings and early mornings. Winter weather also seems to increase the reception when it is very cold. So as someone else mentioned, you might want to hold on to the larger antenna and see what happens in the summertime when the leaves come back. As for the signal meter, it's hard to say how accurate they are but it gives some indication when aiming the antenna for a specific channel or market. Before trying a rotor, you could use two antennas using a combiner and aim each at the market you want and see how that works.
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post #102 of 206 Old 01-25-2018, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad to hear that the RCA helped your situation. I have found that the station that is the furthest and weakest comes in better in the evenings and early mornings. Winter weather also seems to increase the reception when it is very cold. So as someone else mentioned, you might want to hold on to the larger antenna and see what happens in the summertime when the leaves come back. As for the signal meter, it's hard to say how accurate they are but it gives some indication when aiming the antenna for a specific channel or market. Before trying a rotor, you could use two antennas using a combiner and aim each at the market you want and see how that works.
Reception does seem better the colder it is here as well... The only stations i am worried about really are the retro subchannels.. I have Me TV, and thats from a Hi VHF from Binghamton and is my strongest station Ch 12.3 virtual- 7 RF

Cozy TV is on channel 22.4 virtual- 13 RF from Scranton.. no problem with this most days..

Yes, the further and weaker the channel is, the better it comes in nights and mornings, especially the UHF stations.. WNEP out of Scranton is weak, but I usually have it, and with the RCA preamp in line seems a lot more stable.. .. No longer drops out during mid day, at least for right now..
This is the one I want to keep, and have been working hardest on, as it has Antenna TV on 16.2 virtual 50RF, and according to Wikipedia and Rabbit Ears , THIS TV is coming "soon " to 16.3 which now has nothing assigned .. Luckily, it will be "repacked" from 50 RF to 16, matching its virtual assignment, and will be doubling its transmitter power from 500 kW to 950 kW, according to Rabbit Ears.. This should make it much easier for me to receive reliably in the near future, even with the small antenna I have been using.


When fooling around with my big UHF Yagi antenna, I can get it any time just standing on the deck, with no preamp.. With the big antenna up on the roof, I will be able to get it reliably if conditions change come spring/summer, but that remains to be seen.. As stated I have doubles of all majors, and lots of triples as well.. The channels I will work hardest at keeping are the ones that I find most interesting, are the retro TV sub channels.. A lot of my effort in the future will depend on which callsign offers which subchannels .. bob
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post #103 of 206 Old 01-26-2018, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Terrific. I got the signal strength improved on WNEP just in time to be notified by their general manager that Wikipedia and Rabbit Ears were wrong, and that THIS TV was NOT going to become part of their channel lineup at all, and that the websites were wrong.. Here's his email reply to me when I inquired.. at least he took the time to get back to me...

So annoying, but it is what its is... bob


"
Hello,
Thanks for watching WNEP and WNEP2. I'm not sure why 16.3 is listed to air This Tv as this inaccurate. On 12/4/17, in order to proceed with a channel share agreement with WVIA (Public Broadcasting) we ceased programming 16.3."
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post #104 of 206 Old 01-26-2018, 12:03 PM
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Reception does seem better the colder it is here as well... The only stations i am worried about really are the retro subchannels.. I have Me TV, and thats from a Hi VHF from Binghamton and is my strongest station Ch 12.3 virtual- 7 RF

Cozy TV is on channel 22.4 virtual- 13 RF from Scranton.. no problem with this most days..

Yes, the further and weaker the channel is, the better it comes in nights and mornings, especially the UHF stations.. WNEP out of Scranton is weak, but I usually have it, and with the RCA preamp in line seems a lot more stable.. .. No longer drops out during mid day, at least for right now..
This is the one I want to keep, and have been working hardest on, as it has Antenna TV on 16.2 virtual 50RF, and according to Wikipedia and Rabbit Ears , THIS TV is coming "soon " to 16.3 which now has nothing assigned .. Luckily, it will be "repacked" from 50 RF to 16, matching its virtual assignment, and will be doubling its transmitter power from 500 kW to 950 kW, according to Rabbit Ears.. This should make it much easier for me to receive reliably in the near future, even with the small antenna I have been using.


When fooling around with my big UHF Yagi antenna, I can get it any time just standing on the deck, with no preamp.. With the big antenna up on the roof, I will be able to get it reliably if conditions change come spring/summer, but that remains to be seen.. As stated I have doubles of all majors, and lots of triples as well.. The channels I will work hardest at keeping are the ones that I find most interesting, are the retro TV sub channels.. A lot of my effort in the future will depend on which callsign offers which subchannels .. bob
That's good that you can get some of the same channels as some of the smaller networks can get dropped and replaced quite easily. In Cleveland, we are getting Quest in a few days. A few years ago, ThisTV was on one of the sub channels but was replaced by GETtv as I recall. A low power channel had the Cheddar business channel but that was dropped a few months ago. So things do change quite easily. Some of the religious stations are going off or channel sharing due to the repack. Good to hear the RCA is working and hopefully will work as well in the cold you have over there.
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Terrific. I got the signal strength improved on WNEP just in time to be notified by their general manager that Wikipedia and Rabbit Ears were wrong, and that THIS TV was NOT going to become part of their channel lineup at all, and that the websites were wrong.. Here's his email reply to me when I inquired.. at least he took the time to get back to me...

So annoying, but it is what its is... bob


"
Hello,
Thanks for watching WNEP and WNEP2. I'm not sure why 16.3 is listed to air This Tv as this inaccurate. On 12/4/17, in order to proceed with a channel share agreement with WVIA (Public Broadcasting) we ceased programming 16.3."
But it might end up on another channel. Since you can get more channels now and the signals are more reliable with the preamp, you might find that network later somewhere else.
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post #106 of 206 Old 01-26-2018, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steel guitar guy View Post
Terrific. I got the signal strength improved on WNEP just in time to be notified by their general manager that Wikipedia and Rabbit Ears were wrong, and that THIS TV was NOT going to become part of their channel lineup at all, and that the websites were wrong.. Here's his email reply to me when I inquired.. at least he took the time to get back to me...

So annoying, but it is what its is... bob


"
Hello,
Thanks for watching WNEP and WNEP2. I'm not sure why 16.3 is listed to air This Tv as this inaccurate. On 12/4/17, in order to proceed with a channel share agreement with WVIA (Public Broadcasting) we ceased programming 16.3."
If you wouldn't mind, send him this link:

http://wnep.com/on-air/

And indicate that the empty box to the right of "View the WNEP2 Schedule" links to an address with "This TV Programming" in it. Removing that box would likely end the distribution of bad information about This TV appearing on 16-3.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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post #107 of 206 Old 01-27-2018, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
If you wouldn't mind, send him this link:

http://wnep.com/on-air/

And indicate that the empty box to the right of "View the WNEP2 Schedule" links to an address with "This TV Programming" in it. Removing that box would likely end the distribution of bad information about This TV appearing on 16-3.

- Trip

Done.... bob
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post #108 of 206 Old 01-30-2018, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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interesting development late last night.. I for some reason checked my TVFool report, and as always it showed nothing at all.. Then the screen flashed quickly and this totally correct report was there in its place!...
I get all the stations at least part of the time depending on which way the little GE antenna is pointed- down to WPBY which is actually WYDC out of Corning.. I can get that station pretty well most of the time... I have never once seen anything from any of the translators listed, even the strong ones up closer to the top of the list, and I can't say why.. Never scanned anything lower down on the list than WPBY at any time.
I have tried to at least scan for more channels with my large Stellar Labs UH and High VHF antennas up to about 20 feet AGL, and never have scanned anything listed below WPBY on the report.. Not sure if any are close to strong enough, although Syracuse is a lot closer than Scranton.. Just can't get around the mountain in my yard I guess, not sure if the report takes that into consideration... In any case, this updated list is in line with the report from Rabbit Ears
..
Any hope for some of those Syracuse [61 miles] or Rochester [90 miles] showing up at least part time, or are they simply too weak even with big high gain antennas and a pre amp??



here's the "new one" that popped up out of nowhere as i was looking-
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...903888449207f1

Whats interesting is the fact that this chart shows the Scranton stations as stronger than the Elmira/Corning stations, but they aren't.. the Elmira.Corning stations are strong enough that they are often there despite being probably 110 degrees off from where the antenna is pointed.. When I do turn the antenna that way, they are solid with strong signal strength.. around 75 or so.. rarely to any of the Scranton stations exhibit much over about 45 or so... thats with the preamp..
Any chance of seeing any of those stations lower down on the chart????

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post #109 of 206 Old 01-30-2018, 07:16 PM
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Ooh! New database date code! Maybe they finally got the repacking mess straightened out
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post #110 of 206 Old 01-31-2018, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Ooh! New database date code! Maybe they finally got the repacking mess straightened out
Yeah... It was weird- one second the old one was there, then a screen blip, and then the correct one was there..
For me, it just reinforces what the Rabbit Ears site has shown... Outside of the 3 small markets I can catch, there just isn't much up there for any antenna to grab, due to geography.. Its a shame too, if I lived higher up the hill my house is on, I would have access to two much bigger markets with a lot more variety on the subchannels.. Oh well, there are a lot of people out there getting almost nothing, so I should be happy with what I have... Playing with the antenna height function shows I would need 300 feet of elevation before some of my 2 edge signals become 1 edge.. yikes.. As I said, I am lucky with what I have.. bob

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post #111 of 206 Old 01-31-2018, 10:09 AM
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Playing with the antenna height function shows I would need 300 feet of elevation before some of my 2 edge signals become 1 edge.. yikes.. As I said, I am lucky with what I have.. bob
Perhaps @Calaveras could give you some tips on duplicating his setup?

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Perhaps @Calaveras could give you some tips on duplicating his setup?
Yep thats pretty a impressive set up he has, but there has to be enough in the air to catch I would imagine.. The signals I want out of syracuse or rochester are probably not going to come close to being strong enough even with his impressive array.. I would consider something similar but would be afraid to put down several K $ and have nothing to show, or maybe one or two stations that drop out constantly... bob
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Originally Posted by steel guitar guy View Post
Yep thats pretty a impressive set up he has, but there has to be enough in the air to catch I would imagine.. The signals I want out of syracuse or rochester are probably not going to come close to being strong enough even with his impressive array.. I would consider something similar but would be afraid to put down several K $ and have nothing to show, or maybe one or two stations that drop out constantly... bob
I don't think he is any closer to the transmitters than you, although everybody's situation is different. It wasn't necessarily a serious suggestion, just an example of what can be done given a tall tower, enough antenna/amplifier gain and dedication to install it. You can compare his profile location to the transmitters in Walnut Grove, San Francisco and Fremont; looks like 60 to 110 miles. Makes me glad all I had to do was mount a couple antennae on a pole strapped to my chimney. Did you see his system description? Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

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post #114 of 206 Old 01-31-2018, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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He has more single edge and 2 edge signals it seems.. most of the ones I want locally are tropo, even the ones that are only 61 miles away.. My area is just too mountainous.. .. If you are top of one, you'll do ok, but where I am at its more of a terrain issue terrain than distance I think... I could lay down a few grand for a tower and a stack of high gain antennae, but why bother if I only get a few more weak channels.. If I knew I could get considerably more than I have I would take the chance, but I doubt any improvement would be worth what it would cost... bob
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post #115 of 206 Old 02-11-2018, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Most of my stations other than the closest 2 in Binghamton [ RF 7 and RF 8- are either pixelating or non existent today, and have been worse since it stopped being icy cold a few days ago.. Very foggy today... Even the VHF stations from Scranton are having problems dropping out, and they have been steady for months.. All the UHF stations from Scranton and Elmira are gone as well.. I know fog can be a factor, but losing almost everything?... I mean I had many days of perfect reception in whiteout blizzard conditions, where it was blowing at 40 mph, and you could not see 200 feet. It was cold however,

Clouds, heavy snow, wind etc.. Nothing at all seems to matter as long as its COLD.. The more freezing it is, the better the signal, day or night.. I always figured rain, snow, cloud cover or wind would have more influence than temperature, but in my case, my reception is strictly a matter of temperature.. Cloudy and dark grey with heavy snow.. 47 channels- as long as its below say 25 degrees.. No snow, and say 40 degrees?.. MUCH worse signal across the board, and most UHF signals gone or pixelating.. Down from 47 stations to 14....

Starting to wonder if its even worth the effort... Is fringe reception really this dependent on temp, and not other atmospheric conditions ?. bob
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post #116 of 206 Old 02-11-2018, 09:41 PM
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Clouds, heavy snow, wind etc.. Nothing at all seems to matter as long as its COLD.. The more freezing it is, the better the signal, day or night.. I always figured rain, snow, cloud cover or wind would have more influence than temperature, but in my case, my reception is strictly a matter of temperature.. Cloudy and dark grey with heavy snow.. 47 channels- as long as its below say 25 degrees.. No snow, and say 40 degrees?.. MUCH worse signal across the board, and most UHF signals gone or pixelating.. Down from 47 stations to 14....

Starting to wonder if its even worth the effort... Is fringe reception really this dependent on temp, and not other atmospheric conditions ?. bob

So what you're saying is that during stormy conditions signals are fine and during stable weather under a high pressure the signals are gone? This is caused by temperature inversions that form under stable weather. 2 edge paths like you have are particularly sensitive to disruption. Temperature inversions are wiped out during stormy weather.

I have a similar situation here. Reception is very stable during a storm but I have occasional drop-outs when high pressure moves in. There's nothing you can do about it.
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post #117 of 206 Old 02-12-2018, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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So what you're saying is that during stormy conditions signals are fine and during stable weather under a high pressure the signals are gone? This is caused by temperature inversions that form under stable weather. 2 edge paths like you have are particularly sensitive to disruption. Temperature inversions are wiped out during stormy weather.

I have a similar situation here. Reception is very stable during a storm but I have occasional drop-outs when high pressure moves in. There's nothing you can do about it.
Not exactly...
High pressure/clear sky and 20 degrees- better signal;... High pressure /clear sky and 45 degrees.. Much worse signal

Cloudy and 20 degrees- better .... Cloudy and 45 degrees.. Much worse..
Point is this - High or low pressure, cloudy or clear, rain or snow, I have had much better reception and more channels the colder it is, and when its REAL cold say under about 15 degrees I have strong relatively very stable signals on most channels that don't pixelate or drop out any time of day..

The higher the temperature goes, high OR low pressure, rain shine or snow, day or night, cloudy or clear, the worse the signal becomes.. As soon as the temperature goes down, regardless of any other weather factors, the signal is stronger...

Very frustrating to say the least... UHF signals are more affected with this problem by far than VHF...
If this holds true throughout the spring, by the time its 75 degrees outside, UHF OTA signals will be non existent here... That remains to be seen I suppose, and I do have a much bigger Stellar Labs "deep fringe" UHF antenna as well as the Stellar Labs 2576 High VHF antenna ready to go up when the weather breaks..

If the pattern continues however and gets more pronounced come spring, I may take them all down and give up on OTA.. Just too tough an area... bob
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post #118 of 206 Old 02-12-2018, 07:04 AM
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Very frustrating to say the least... UHF signals are more affected with this problem by far than VHF...
If this holds true throughout the spring, by the time its 75 degrees outside, UHF OTA signals will be non existent here... That remains to be seen I suppose, and I do have a much bigger Stellar Labs "deep fringe" UHF antenna as well as the Stellar Labs 2576 High VHF antenna ready to go up when the weather breaks..

If the pattern continues however and gets more pronounced come spring, I may take them all down and give up on OTA.. Just too tough an area... bob

This is all about temperature inversions and not about the actual temperature. These cause the signals to refract and at your location that degrades the signals. The higher the frequency the worse the problem. You'll have the same sort of signal swings when the temperatures warm in Spring and Summer. Your TV Fool report and your experience so far indicate you are in a very difficult location for OTA. No antenna is going to overcome that. OTA is not possible in every location.
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This is all about temperature inversions and not about the actual temperature. These cause the signals to refract and at your location that degrades the signals. The higher the frequency the worse the problem. You'll have the same sort of signal swings when the temperatures warm in Spring and Summer. Your TV Fool report and your experience so far indicate you are in a very difficult location for OTA. No antenna is going to overcome that. OTA is not possible in every location.
Understood... We'll see how it goes this spring, but the leaves will be back, and UHF from Scranton just may not be possible, at least not with consistency..
At 75 miles away, multitudes of mountains etc, it might just be part time reception only where I am.. If these big antennas I will be installing don't do it, it won't get done I suppose.. I will give it my best shot.. the GE antenna I have up now with the RCA booster has been fine a lot of the time, but can't cope with these changes, just not enough signal to grab... Thanks for your insight, it is well appreciated!... bob
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post #120 of 206 Old 02-12-2018, 04:09 PM
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Understood... We'll see how it goes this spring, but the leaves will be back, and UHF from Scranton just may not be possible, at least not with consistency..
At 75 miles away, multitudes of mountains etc, it might just be part time reception only where I am.. If these big antennas I will be installing don't do it, it won't get done I suppose.. I will give it my best shot.. the GE antenna I have up now with the RCA booster has been fine a lot of the time, but can't cope with these changes, just not enough signal to grab... Thanks for your insight, it is well appreciated!... bob
At least you know what is possible depending on the weather. The larger antenna might make a difference. But as I mentioned earlier, the tuner in your set might not be as sensitive as you would hope for which is why I mentioned that if you can find one of the Zenith 901 converter boxes, you would have a better idea since those are the most sensitive tuners I have used next to the Digitalstream 9950 boxes. Also, they have decent signal indicators and the Zenith's is better as it detects activity even if it can't lock on the signal. There have been times in the summer when my Sony which is fairly sensitive, shows no signal for a channel and either the Zenith or Digitalstream receives it. But of course, those boxes are not high definition but they have decent quality output.
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