new antenna improves 2nd TV w/out being connected - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 10Likes
  • 1 Post By markmon1
  • 1 Post By tveli
  • 2 Post By Ratman
  • 2 Post By tustinfarm
  • 3 Post By rabbit73
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 12-16-2019, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stevethebrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Montgomery,AL,Ft.Walton Bch.FL
Posts: 1,449
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 26
new antenna improves 2nd TV w/out being connected

can my new clearstream 2 connected to main TV improve my second TV (that's located 10' away) reception even w/out a physical connection?

2nd TV use's a tiny hauppauge antenna which before the clearstream barely received a couple channels now all come in clearly.

like can one antenna effect the 2nd?

I'm assuming the TVs signal is being drawn closer to #2
STB
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	my clearstream.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	71.6 KB
ID:	2654720   Click image for larger version

Name:	HVR950 tiny antenna2.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	31.1 KB
ID:	2654722  

Samsung PN58C500/Amp: Yamaha RX-V465/Polk DSW1KProSub/DefTECH SM450/C1CC/Pro80/Sony BPX37 BD/Magnavox515/ HTPC-CPU: I3 550, 3.2 GHz/Mobo: Intel H57/RAM: 6GB DDR3 1333/HDD: 1TB/2TBX2 Internal, 1TB external/Tuner: 1800-950 Haupague/W7 64 OS Remote: Harmony 700
stevethebrain is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 12-16-2019, 05:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
markmon1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,455
Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6245 Post(s)
Liked: 4348
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post
can my new clearstream 2 connected to main TV improve my second TV (that's located 10' away) reception even w/out a physical connection?

2nd TV use's a tiny hauppauge antenna which before the clearstream barely received a couple channels now all come in clearly.

like can one antenna effect the 2nd?

I'm assuming the TVs signal is being drawn closer to #2
STB
No antennas dont "draw in" the signal. The signal is already there. They simple receive it.

Signals constantly change based on many factors from weather to humidity to interference across town, to clouds, etc. It's likely that when you hooked up your new antenna, conditions improved for the time being.
Ratman likes this.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" ST130 G4 screen in batcave, htpc nvidia 1080ti madVR.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, Infinite Baffle Subs 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 2x12 fi audio mounted in main chair firing into back.
markmon1 is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 12-16-2019, 05:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
tveli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southern NH
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Yes antennas can affect each other.
this is the basis of how phased array of small antennas acts as one larger antenna.
stevethebrain likes this.
tveli is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 14 Old 12-17-2019, 08:28 AM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit, Tampa Bay
Posts: 17,487
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2445 Post(s)
Liked: 4785
Bickering removed. Thread re-opened

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.

Last edited by DrDon; 12-17-2019 at 11:14 AM.
DrDon is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 12-17-2019, 11:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
tveli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southern NH
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Sorry to anyone who happened to read my impolite reply! Thanks to Mod(s) for Doing Their Job.

STB,

Your initially-reported results echo what the texts/theory/experiments describe about how antennas interact BIGLY with each other, sometimes for better with receive or "passive" antennas, and sometimes for worse especially for transmit or "active" antennas.

If you remember NTSC TV in 60s/70s/80s/90s you may recall that sometimes a person had to stand next to the TV antenna or put their arm near the antenna in order for the TV station to be watchable. That old-school NTSC "stand in the correct spot" experience is another example of two antennas interacting as you have observed and kindly reported. The reason is that the human skeleton has enough minerals to act as a significant antenna.

A more recent observable example is with your car keyfob-remote. Walk to the distance in parking lot just at the edge of where it works vs doesn't-work. Then walk 100 feet further away, and compare the result with the keyfob held under your chin vs with your arm outstretched: it will work reliably with keyfob under your chin, and zero with keyfob held with arm outstretched.

sincerely,

"STD"
tveli is online now  
post #6 of 14 Old 12-17-2019, 12:53 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 19,890
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2590 Post(s)
Liked: 2424
Here's a simple experiment to try immediately:


Temporarily remove the "new" antenna. Does reception on the "tiny" antenna change for the worse?
When you reconnect the new antenna, does it immediately improve?
rabbit73 and HDMI Guy like this.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
Ratman is online now  
post #7 of 14 Old 12-18-2019, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stevethebrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Montgomery,AL,Ft.Walton Bch.FL
Posts: 1,449
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tveli View Post
Sorry to anyone who happened to read my impolite reply! Thanks to Mod(s) for Doing Their Job.

STB,

Your initially-reported results echo what the texts/theory/experiments describe about how antennas interact BIGLY with each other, sometimes for better with receive or "passive" antennas, and sometimes for worse especially for transmit or "active" antennas.

If you remember NTSC TV in 60s/70s/80s/90s you may recall that sometimes a person had to stand next to the TV antenna or put their arm near the antenna in order for the TV station to be watchable. That old-school NTSC "stand in the correct spot" experience is another example of two antennas interacting as you have observed and kindly reported. The reason is that the human skeleton has enough minerals to act as a significant antenna.

A more recent observable example is with your car keyfob-remote. Walk to the distance in parking lot just at the edge of where it works vs doesn't-work. Then walk 100 feet further away, and compare the result with the keyfob held under your chin vs with your arm outstretched: it will work reliably with keyfob under your chin, and zero with keyfob held with arm outstretched.

sincerely,

"STD"
yes I remember the olden days, hey you come adjust the antenna yes reception improves while touching then the second you release an sit down bad reception again I believe this condition still exists today. also remember adding reynolds to the tips which helped some channels but worsened others.

I'll have to try the key fob chin trick I always stretch arm thinking I'm 3' closer.

BTW no insult taken.unless you're now writing I have a sex disease I got that from you're Mom.
now if you flashed an OK sign I would be offended rememeber when OK meant OK.
anyway thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Here's a simple experiment to try immediately:


Temporarily remove the "new" antenna. Does reception on the "tiny" antenna change for the worse?
When you reconnect the new antenna, does it immediately improve?
this test wouldn't prove anything disconnecting and reconnecting since there's no physical connection between the 2.

removing the clearstream from area then reinstalling old antenna has already been proven however this antennas located in attic over 40' away from 2nd TV, was curious if there's scientific proof or coincidence. I'm saying it's not coincidence.

as far as the 3rd TV which is 30' away haven't observed the video reception but hear much less bad audio usually when you get bad audio you get bad video so I'm assuming there's an improvement on the 3rd.

the manufactors response at amazone was you must have a physical connection this answer was probably scribbled down from a company rep.chat person from india (w/ zero knowledge) who was hoping to sell a splitter.4 other responds also say need a physical connection

which I've proven bogus.

I see clearsteam advertising here are they a sponsored vender here?

Samsung PN58C500/Amp: Yamaha RX-V465/Polk DSW1KProSub/DefTECH SM450/C1CC/Pro80/Sony BPX37 BD/Magnavox515/ HTPC-CPU: I3 550, 3.2 GHz/Mobo: Intel H57/RAM: 6GB DDR3 1333/HDD: 1TB/2TBX2 Internal, 1TB external/Tuner: 1800-950 Haupague/W7 64 OS Remote: Harmony 700

Last edited by stevethebrain; 12-18-2019 at 07:17 AM.
stevethebrain is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 12-18-2019, 08:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rabbit73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 3,494
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1009 Post(s)
Liked: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post
yes I remember the olden days, hey you come adjust the antenna yes reception improves while touching then the second you release an sit down bad reception again I believe this condition still exists today. also remember adding reynolds to the tips which helped some channels but worsened others.
I also remember that; I'm 86. And, we used to wrap a piece of aluminum foil around the 300ohm twinlead and slide it up and down for best reception.



It is true if antenna B is near antenna A, antenna A can affect antenna B, but it might be useful to consider other possibilities.



I made a setup to compare the sensitivity of two tuners: a SiliconDust HDHR4-2US and a Hauppauge 955Q. The HDHR was connected to my laptop with a network cable and the 955Q was connected to a USB port. My laptop was also connected to the internet by WiFi.

I connected the antenna to a variable attenuator and then to a 2-way splitter. I increased the attenuation to see which tuner would dropout first. The 955Q dropped out first, but the HDHR continued reception. I disconnected the HDHR from the splitter, but its reception continued. It was late and I was tired; I could have made a mistake. I didn't figure it out.

I still don't understand.

If you talk to a customer service rep, you most likely will get a marketing type answer instead of an engineering type answer.

ADTech, who is a forum member and works for Antennas Direct, might be able to give you an engineering type explanation if he sees your thread.

Thanks for the tip on the OK sign; I didn't know about its new meaning.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	beetle_bailey_cartoon.gif
Views:	150
Size:	55.3 KB
ID:	2655598  

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/dttpoorman.html

Last edited by rabbit73; 12-18-2019 at 08:18 AM.
rabbit73 is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 12-18-2019, 08:56 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 19,890
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2590 Post(s)
Liked: 2424
IMHO...
If antenna B helps with the reception of antenna A, in your situation/location, enjoy and don't worry about the reason(s) why it helps.
Too much nastiness in this thread.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
Ratman is online now  
post #10 of 14 Old 12-18-2019, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stevethebrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Montgomery,AL,Ft.Walton Bch.FL
Posts: 1,449
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I also remember that; I'm 86. And, we used to wrap a piece of aluminum foil around the 300ohm twinlead and slide it up and down for best reception.



It is true if antenna B is near antenna A, antenna A can affect antenna B, but it might be useful to consider other possibilities.



I made a setup to compare the sensitivity of two tuners: a SiliconDust HDHR4-2US and a Hauppauge 955Q. The HDHR was connected to my laptop with a network cable and the 955Q was connected to a USB port. My laptop was also connected to the internet by WiFi.

I connected the antenna to a variable attenuator and then to a 2-way splitter. I increased the attenuation to see which tuner would dropout first. The 955Q dropped out first, but the HDHR continued reception. I disconnected the HDHR from the splitter, but its reception continued. It was late and I was tired; I could have made a mistake. I didn't figure it out.

I still don't understand.

If you talk to a customer service rep, you most likely will get a marketing type answer instead of an engineering type answer.

ADTech, who is a forum member and works for Antennas Direct, might be able to give you an engineering type explanation if he sees your thread.

Thanks for the tip on the OK sign; I didn't know about its new meaning.
I rarely use the portable tuner maybe on 3 day boat cruises.
glad to hear you're silicon dust is working good. I'm not liking the reception I get w/ it.

however there's more to recording w/ the PC than just a good TV signal, there's tuner quality & storage quality. I still the silicon dust and the playback has significantly improved
w/ new Clearstream and new HDD I only use high quaility Black western digital drives

no problem on OK sign we are in changing times especially down south flags being taken down,street & school renaming, civil war stautes being removed and being replaced. I really want to move to a gated community even if it's a HOA.

Samsung PN58C500/Amp: Yamaha RX-V465/Polk DSW1KProSub/DefTECH SM450/C1CC/Pro80/Sony BPX37 BD/Magnavox515/ HTPC-CPU: I3 550, 3.2 GHz/Mobo: Intel H57/RAM: 6GB DDR3 1333/HDD: 1TB/2TBX2 Internal, 1TB external/Tuner: 1800-950 Haupague/W7 64 OS Remote: Harmony 700
stevethebrain is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 12-19-2019, 05:23 PM
Senior Member
 
tustinfarm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I also remember that; I'm 86. And, we used to wrap a piece of aluminum foil around the 300ohm twinlead and slide it up and down for best reception.
This is admittedly off topic, but I have to say that reading your detailed technical posts is inspirational to me. It would be my dream to make it to the age of 86 (in another 25 years), and still be exploring electronics with various equipment and measurements! Bravo, Rabbit73.
rabbit73 and tveli like this.
tustinfarm is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 12-19-2019, 06:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rabbit73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S.E. VA
Posts: 3,494
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1009 Post(s)
Liked: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by tustinfarm View Post
.....I have to say that reading your detailed technical posts is inspirational to me. It would be my dream to make it to the age of 86 (in another 25 years), and still be exploring electronics with various equipment and measurements!
Thank you for your kind words. I love to do experiments. They get my juices flowing and make me feel alive. My wife said they make my eyes shine. How can I not do them?

I hope you find something you love to do that keeps you going to 86.
DrDon, Ratman and Keizer like this.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/dttpoorman.html
rabbit73 is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 12-20-2019, 05:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Calaveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hereford, AZ
Posts: 6,068
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1798 Post(s)
Liked: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post
yes I remember the olden days, hey you come adjust the antenna yes reception improves while touching then the second you release an sit down bad reception again I believe this condition still exists today.

removing the clearstream from area then reinstalling old antenna has already been proven however this antennas located in attic over 40' away from 2nd TV, was curious if there's scientific proof or coincidence. I'm saying it's not coincidence.

Yes, it was multipath back in the analog days and it's still multipath today. It's just a coincidence that adding an antenna not connected to the first improved reception. Multipath indoors is really bad and anything can affect it. Moving a piece of furniture or just walking around in the room can affect it. There are no engineering principles that say adding an antenna to a room will improve reception on another isolated antenna.
Calaveras is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 12-21-2019, 03:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
tveli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: southern NH
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 62
30 feet seems too far for receive antennas to affect each other given the frequencies. Multipath does seem a more likely explanation at that distance.

Not sure i understand the setup properly but indeed there is plenty inspirational in this thread, from others including OP and an elder statesman.

Have a techie new year everyone. Also please know that any perceived deprecation or humor attempts in my previous posts was intended as facetious and directed towards self only.
tveli is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply HDTV Technical

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off