Why does 720p look better than 1080p? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 03:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Why does 720p look better than 1080p?

I have noticed this for years and NO ONE wants to admit what I seen side to side. Well here is a clip I am using to display what i see. This is how to see how 720p looks even up-converted on a 1080p set. If you notice the violet looking tree stands out more over the rest of the images, but the entire film makes the 720p image more vibrant, more glossy. You can differ, I know people like bigger numbers, but I noticed this on cable signals as well.

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post #2 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 03:36 AM
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Because that is how AI works. If it is trained on 720p --> 4k content. The same is in photoshop.
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post #3 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Balthazar Lin View Post
Because that is how AI works. If it is trained on 720p --> 4k content. The same is in photoshop.
TY, but why on youtube tv as well? Is it less pixels that are bigger? I seen this for years. Finally I have a side by side to show this, I have another video too where I guy got a Blu Ray disk, put it in 720 on Samsung Plasma 720P set and 1080p on a Samsung 1080p plasma. Same duller picture on the 1080p set.

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post #4 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 04:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the other test I was talking about, if you are looking at the TV's to watch them, the 1366X786 set is to the left. You can see some of the images are darkened and not even visible on the 1080p set. My best guess, is these very high end plasma TV's have very good up-scalers, and that processing did something to the 720p signal opposed to no scaling at all? The 720 signal is still being scaled because it is 1366x786. My best guess. I noticed this for years.

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post #5 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 04:56 AM
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See this whole video (I saw it 3 days ago)
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post #6 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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TY, but what he is doing there is really shrinking the images, and showing you how the AI can make look close to the original, opposed to a 720p video looking brighter and better than the 1080p video. Even in this gaming example though much of it looks equal, but at the 46 to 49 second mark, you can see the 720p processing is better..THEN AGAIN with the dragon scene, you see it at the 1:46 to 1:50 mark. SEE & OPEN UP ATTACHED THUMBNAIL PHOTO AS WELL.
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post #7 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 05:42 AM
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If both of the videos are using the same amount of bandwidth the 720 video could look much better than the 1080 one simply because it doesn't have to be compressed as much. There are fewer pixels but the amount of data is the same.
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post #8 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcLain View Post
If both of the videos are using the same amount of bandwidth the 720 video could look much better than the 1080 one simply because it doesn't have to be compressed as much. There are fewer pixels but the amount of data is the same.
AHHH, TY Dave.

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post #9 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaveMcLain View Post
If both of the videos are using the same amount of bandwidth the 720 video could look much better than the 1080 one simply because it doesn't have to be compressed as much. There are fewer pixels but the amount of data is the same.
Dave I researched what you said, yes you are correct, but is this why I see a better picture when I put my fireTV in 720p? By me setting the resolution manually to 720P am I less compressing the image? It looks a little better in 720P on YouTubeLiveTV. I found this article to prove what you said.. https://www.boxcast.com/blog/hd-live...-1080p-vs-720p

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post #10 of 27 Old 12-30-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Process_Theology View Post
Dave I researched what you said, yes you are correct, but is this why I see a better picture when I put my fireTV in 720p? By me setting the resolution manually to 720P am I less compressing the image? It looks a little better in 720P on YouTubeLiveTV. I found this article to prove what you said.. https://www.boxcast.com/blog/hd-live...-1080p-vs-720p
There are a numbers of factors why one HD format might appear to look better than another, primarily including the display being used, the source material and how it was acquired, bandwidth, and processing from various devices like set-top-boxes, PC graphics cards, etc.

It should also be mentioned that individual visual perception plays a much larger roll in all this than generally understood. This observation is from first hand experience in the advanced visualization industry.

Bottom line is that all things being equal, 1080p should look substantially better than 720p. If not, then you can bet all things are not equal.


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post #11 of 27 Old 12-31-2019, 02:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes the format wars, it's still there believe it or not, with Sling, YouTube, Hulu, who and who is not broadcasting in 1080, who is allegedly chopping off half a field to 540, what ever may be 4k is compressed like hell. Yes there are a lot of reasons with the compression it appears. Over all 720p appears to be brighter and warmer, 1080p is cooler, & little darker and more detail if you rewind the same footage and compare the 2. But I have shown 3 examples, one game, one Blu Ray, and a camera format switch to display the warmer brighter format. Right now I have I have a Firestick, got rid of satellite, where the 1080i signal was horrible, 720p was my choice for Sat. But with FireTV, I keep them in auto & match original frame rate. One TV is a 1024X768 Panny 2011 Plasma 42 inch, the other a 2010 55 inch 1080p Panny Plasma. The 720p setting at times does look better on the 768 one, but when I put it auto in choses 1080p by default. On the 1080p plasma the Firestick looks better in auto 1080p, it needs the extra pixels more, I can see it. Despite the 720p setting results in a warmer and more glossy brighter picture, it can look a bit weak, tinny on the 1080p set, not as much on the 768 one..hard to explain. I'm using YouTube TV & Philo, they both render a great picture, I believe they broadcast in 720/60, so the Firesticks along with Panasonic's scaling systems are doing an excellent job scaling these formats to 1080p. Very close to Verizon when I had it. I had Cox Cable here in Southern New England for 1 day and I had them take it out because the compression was so horrible. So yes there are a lot of factors, such as the TV having a good scaler . So as far as the FireTV on the Plasma's, yes 720p & 1080P both have their moments.

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post #12 of 27 Old 12-31-2019, 09:48 AM
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I mostly view OTA tv where no compression is used.
I find that progressive scan media looks better.
480p looks better than 480i
720p looks better than 720i
and 1080i is the highest resolution i see yet looks no better than 720p.
On my Roku i watch many videos where i can select
480p, 720p, and 1080p and i can see the improvement with each upward move even though the advantage i see between 720p and 1080p is small, i can see the improvement when looking for it.
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post #13 of 27 Old 12-31-2019, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old tv guy View Post
I mostly view OTA tv where no compression is used.
I find that progressive scan media looks better.
480p looks better than 480i
720p looks better than 720i
and 1080i is the highest resolution i see yet looks no better than 720p.
On my Roku i watch many videos where i can select
480p, 720p, and 1080p and i can see the improvement with each upward move even though the advantage i see between 720p and 1080p is small, i can see the improvement when looking for it.
Who does/did 720i?

Where do you live and get OTA where no compression is used?



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post #14 of 27 Old 12-31-2019, 01:16 PM
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Who does/did 720i?
No one. 720i does not exist as an ATSC format.
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Where do you live and get OTA where no compression is used?
Nowhere. At least that I'm aware of.

With the exception of most all Canadian Digital TV stations, as they do not multicast. I get the CBC with an antenna and you can tell a minor improvement between their 720p and what I get from ABC or FOX.
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post #15 of 27 Old 12-31-2019, 01:24 PM
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With the exception of most Canadian Digital TV stations. I get the CBC with an antenna and you can tell a minor difference between their 720p and what I get from ABC or FOX.
Perhaps... how many sub-channels with CBC vs. your locals?
Saw your edit..... there ya go!



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post #16 of 27 Old 12-31-2019, 02:58 PM
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Perhaps... how many sub-channels with CBC vs. your locals?
Saw your edit..... there ya go!
The CBC has zero subchannels, eh. The ABC affilate has 3 subchannels in addition to ABC, and FOX has 4 in addition to FOX.


Oh for the good old days of HD.
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-01-2020, 03:46 AM
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Oh for the good old days of HD.
Yeah. Watching the endless HD loop on PBS a gazillion times.



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Originally Posted by Process_Theology View Post
TY, but why on youtube tv as well? Is it less pixels that are bigger? I seen this for years. Finally I have a side by side to show this, I have another video too where I guy got a Blu Ray disk, put it in 720 on Samsung Plasma 720P set and 1080p on a Samsung 1080p plasma. Same duller picture on the 1080p set.

Why does 1080 exist if it’s worse is that why my 4k tv looks like trash ?
Probably poor upconversjon or fake 1080p some Blu-ray Discs are bootlegged I’ve even got some from family video that are .



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Originally Posted by Process_Theology View Post
I have noticed this for years and NO ONE wants to admit what I seen side to side. Well here is a clip I am using to display what i see. This is how to see how 720p looks even up-converted on a 1080p set. If you notice the violet looking tree stands out more over the rest of the images, but the entire film makes the 720p image more vibrant, more glossy. You can differ, I know people like bigger numbers, but I noticed this on cable signals as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFS2...Q&index=2&t=0s
This video looks terrible, but to me the 1080p in this video looks significantly better. It has a lot more detail in the rocks and stones in background. On a TV it's likely you sit too far back to benefit much from the 720 vs 1080 anyway but if you sit close enough or have a large enough screen, you can see the difference easily.

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Yeah. Watching the endless HD loop on PBS a gazillion times.
Well, not quite that good old....

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Anecdotally, I always notice that 1080i looks better than 720p in terms of broadcast television. ABC and Fox are in 720p, while CBS and NBC are in 1080i. Especially on local news programming in my city, the difference is VERY visible - WABC and WNYW essentially look like 16:9 Standard Definition broadcasts, while WCBS and WNBC are much sharper. I think this difference is smaller with fast motion content like sports, where 720p beats out in clarity, but a side to side comparison of news programming in 720p and 1080i would be noticiable.

I'm looking forward to ATSC 3.0 where we might finally see broadcast 1080p TV.

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... with fast motion content like sports, where 720p beats out in clarity, but a side to side comparison of news programming in 720p and 1080i would be noticiable.
Back in the old days... FOX Widescreen was 480p.


Quote:
I'm looking forward to ATSC 3.0 where we might finally see broadcast 1080p TV.
1080p is outdated now. Let's shoot for at least 4k.



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Back in the old days... FOX Widescreen was 480p.



1080p is outdated now. Let's shoot for at least 4k.

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bring vintage hdtvs nanotechnology bAck .. without the ugly duckling Speaker bricks make dlp thinner




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Back in the old days... FOX Widescreen was 480p.
Good old Faux Widescreen. I remember well them saying you couldn't tell the difference from 10' away, when in reality anyone could tell the difference, no matter what the distance.



Quote:
1080p is outdated now. Let's shoot for at least 4k.
Dr. Don says he is betting ATSC 3.0 = Mobile TV. And I said "Finally something to watch while I'm driving...."
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Here in the Toronto area OTA is 1080i or 720p. No sub channels so no 480i. We do receive Buffalo channels and the 480i really sucks.
Rogers cable is 1080i and upconverts to 1080p. However in my opinion the 1080i is better.
Bell Fibe is 720p and does not look as good as the 1080i from Rogers.

Both vendors offer limited programs in 4K, but I have not seen it yet.

The OTA in 720p and 1080i is great. Hard to tell the difference. Agree or disagree, we all perceive things differently.
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It’s a joke , retro stuff just was more stylish except the super ultra fat projector TVs and crt that exceeded 300 pounds .

My 4k tv is trash
Sony XBR55X810C 55-Inch 4K Ultra HD Smart LED TV
For upconversion of dvd and Netflix content not hd .
Very good for high definition movies and Netflix . Not so good for hdr 4k Blu-ray ...


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