4k60 HDR over HDBT or Fiber? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 7 Old 01-23-2020, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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4k60 HDR over HDBT or Fiber?

Hello,
I recently moved into a home that was pre-wired that provides many options. The media closet sends Cat6, Cat5, coax, and fiber to all the major rooms. When I moved in I decided to purchase an HDFury Maestro to send the HD signal over cat6 to the family room TV. My setup is a Samsung 75" Q70 TV, Apple TV 4k, Denon AVR 7200, and using Harmony Elite for control. The problem is that at times the the TV does not recognize the source and i have to hard reset the Maestro.
I am looking at purchasing another device in its place.
TO GET TO THE POINT, my question is should i stay with an HDBT device or use a device that transfers HD over fiber instead.
Any recommendations on devices?
Thanks for all the help in advance.
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post #2 of 7 Old 01-23-2020, 07:24 PM
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Good questions, unfortunately there is no straight answer. A 4k60 4:4:4 signal is 18gbps, far more than any Cat 6 cable can deliver. Some compression will be required. The rebooting is a common issue I have encountered with lower cost HdbaseT equipment. Fiber would be very expensive but certainly give you all the bandwidth you need. I think its important to know your budget and system requirements (how many inputs, how many outputs).
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post #3 of 7 Old 01-23-2020, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. The HDBT equipment I have, HDFury Meastro, cost me $1000.00 so it was not cheap. Looking at the fiber option, prices are around $500 at Monoprice to $900 with other products. I am still within my return window and will return the Maestro.
I only need 1 input which will be from the AVR to 1 output which will be to TV.
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post #4 of 7 Old 01-23-2020, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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My only other concern is that the fiber that is already ran does not have the connectors. I am comfortable doing RG45 but have never installed fiber connections.
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post #5 of 7 Old 01-23-2020, 11:20 PM
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HDBT connected using solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet patch cable) is the best connection in your case. However, it's a good idea to find out if your HDBT units are using the lastest Valens chipsets because if not, you will probably have issues for 4k HDR.


You didn't say how long your cable run is but it sounds like it's over 25'. That being the case, the most reliable fiber solution is to use hybrid fiber (glass fiber core surrounded by solid copper wiring). My guess is that the installed fiber is just that, fiber cable and not a hybrid fiber cable. A suggestion would be to replace the fiber cable with a hybrid fiber cable with a direct, source to sink connection with no wall plates, adapters, or extenders in-between. Hopefully your cable was installed in a conduit because that is the ONLY way to future proof cabling. Running your cable in a conduit makes changing out the cabling a lot easier and safer, and you can control bend radius, which can be critical for a reliable connection. If your cabling is not in a conduit, and just tacked along the studs or where ever then that's going to be a big problem. Cabling requirements are going to change as the video requirements become more demanding (HDMI 2.1 for example) so your cabling is going to need to keep pace. What worked even a few years ago may not work so well now and certainly won't work reliably going forward.

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post #6 of 7 Old 01-25-2020, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
HDBT connected using solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA and not CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet patch cable) is the best connection in your case. However, it's a good idea to find out if your HDBT units are using the lastest Valens chipsets because if not, you will probably have issues for 4k HDR.


You didn't say how long your cable run is but it sounds like it's over 25'. That being the case, the most reliable fiber solution is to use hybrid fiber (glass fiber core surrounded by solid copper wiring). My guess is that the installed fiber is just that, fiber cable and not a hybrid fiber cable. A suggestion would be to replace the fiber cable with a hybrid fiber cable with a direct, source to sink connection with no wall plates, adapters, or extenders in-between. Hopefully your cable was installed in a conduit because that is the ONLY way to future proof cabling. Running your cable in a conduit makes changing out the cabling a lot easier and safer, and you can control bend radius, which can be critical for a reliable connection. If your cabling is not in a conduit, and just tacked along the studs or where ever then that's going to be a big problem. Cabling requirements are going to change as the video requirements become more demanding (HDMI 2.1 for example) so your cabling is going to need to keep pace. What worked even a few years ago may not work so well now and certainly won't work reliably going forward.
Here is what I have set up in the house and it is not in conduit. The run is about 50'. The cat6 was not pre-terminated. You can tell the RG45 was connected after the cable was ran. Also, in the media room I was the one who installed the RG45 connectors.

I am trying to see what chipsets the HDFury Maestro has. Looking at specs it was hard to tell but i will reach out to them. Doing a lot of research but also with my limited experience, the Maestro really seems like a great future-proof product. You can connect to the TX and RX via IP address and see what is going on without having to plug it into a PC.

The issue only happens during system power up. The TX and RX both show that signals are going in and out, but the Samsung TV does not recognize the source. I've tried to do hard power resets on AVR and Apple TV and that doesn't help. The only thing that helps is a hard power reset on the HDFury Maestro.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.
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post #7 of 7 Old 01-25-2020, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulbury View Post
Here is what I have set up in the house and it is not in conduit. The run is about 50'. The cat6 was not pre-terminated. You can tell the RG45 was connected after the cable was ran. Also, in the media room I was the one who installed the RG45 connectors.

I am trying to see what chipsets the HDFury Maestro has. Looking at specs it was hard to tell but i will reach out to them. Doing a lot of research but also with my limited experience, the Maestro really seems like a great future-proof product. You can connect to the TX and RX via IP address and see what is going on without having to plug it into a PC.

The issue only happens during system power up. The TX and RX both show that signals are going in and out, but the Samsung TV does not recognize the source. I've tried to do hard power resets on AVR and Apple TV and that doesn't help. The only thing that helps is a hard power reset on the HDFury Maestro.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.
I don't use HDBT connectivity but I believe that the latest Valens chipset are the VS3xxxx family that allows for uncompressed HDMI 2.0 options. I have no idea what the HDFury Maestro uses. There is a poster in the HDMI Forums, Joe Ferdnand, who is very knowledgeable about HDBT so you might want to ask there.

The 50' run not being installed in a conduit certainly complicates matters. Any idea if the cable is tacked down anywhere inside the wall? If not, you might be able to use the installed cable as a pull sting to run another cable thru but anything can happen during the pull so it is dicey. The solid core CAT-6 that I use to extend an ethernet connection has an AWG23 wire gauge which is fairly thick given all the insulation each individual solid copper wire has. I realize that running an ethernet connection is a bit different than an HDMI connection but the use of solid core CAT-6,6a, or even 7 is recommended for HDBT. It could very well be that your installed cable will be sufficient for now for the HDMI 2.0 option sets and the issue is between the HDBT (faulty, not current, whatever) and the Samsung tv.

The ONLY way to future-proof is to run long cable runs in a conduit. Cable requirements are going to change with time as the video formats become more demanding so solid core CAT-6 (and certainly not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) might not be able to adequately handle the bandwidth required so a cable replacement, not just the connector ends, may be necessary.

Are you connecting the existing cable directly to the HDFury or are you using a wall plate or extender to reach the HDFury? How are you connecting the HDFury to the tv (length of cable?). Sounds almost like some sort of handshaking issue if you have to reset the HDFury before it will work correctly.

Looking at your cables it doesn't appear that the ethernet-terminated cable is a solid core cable but it's hard to tell. The fiber cable you probably won't be able to use because it is old school and most fiber options for HDMI are now hybrid fiber, which is usually 4 glass fibers surrounded by 8 solid copper wires and how one would go about terminating a single fiber wire or a hybrid fiber is well above my pay grade.

I never trust an atom, they make up everything.

Last edited by Otto Pylot; 01-25-2020 at 10:40 AM.
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