The Official AVS Antenna and Related Hardware Topic! - Page 588 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17611 of 17627 Old 05-17-2019, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd8000 View Post
I don't suppose you have a line on a reasonably-priced replacement for the old Pico and Pico-clone UVSJs?
Radio Shack 15-2586/1502586
https://www.radioshack.com/products/...itter-combiner















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post #17612 of 17627 Old 05-17-2019, 10:41 AM
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Shorting Stubs Used as a UVSJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd8000 View Post
And a bit more of a general antenna theory question here, but can anyone point to something that explains how the 1/4 wave stubs on the ANT751 work to knock out the UHF signals from the VHF elements? I like to think I understand antenna stuff better than the average Joe, but that part is just FM to me, especially how it gets rid of the UHF signal from the VHF elements, but apparently has no effect on the UHF signal from the UHF element. I understand enough to know that being 1/4 wavelength (for two different wavelengths) is important, but beyond that it's just .




Winegard UHF Tetrapole Stub Function

from Winegard Patent US3,518,693

The dipole 12 differs from the conventional folded dipole in that the upper dipole arms 12a are not continuous but split to form separate inboard ends. However, with the feeder stubs 20 mounted at the inboard ends of the upper dipole arms 12a as previously described, a low impedance, or R-F short, is presented across these ends at frequencies within the UHF frequency band. As a result, driven element 12 serves as a folded dipole in the conventional sense for this frequency range with signals being fed across the gap at the inboard ends of dipole arms 12a without any substantial effect.

At frequencies below the UHF range, however, the R-F short between dipole arms 12a is no longer present and a high impedance (open circuit) is effected. With this result it will be understood that the antenna constructed in accordance with the present invention will operate effectively on frequencies within the UHF band and at the same time permit signals within the VHF band or other frequencies from a separate antenna structure to be coupled to the inboard ends of dipole arms 12a, and therethrough to the terminal connection points 12d to the down lead T.

No adverse effect is encountered for either the signals in the VHF or UHF bands and signals in both bands are coupled to but one down line without an intervening coupling apparatus being required.

End of Patent Description





Shorting stubs are used in place of a UVSJ in a combo antenna for convenience and low cost. They are not quite as effective as a real UVSJ filter, because a stub is only a short for one frequency. Two pairs of wide stubs cover UHF fairly well.

The GE 34792 contains a real UVSJ filter:







The GE 29884 is the outdoor version:





Attachment 2 shows what happens to the UHF Polar Pattern if you do not use some kind of isolation network like a UVSJ or shorting stubs to remove the UHF signals received by the VHF section of a combo antenna.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 05-18-2019 at 10:05 AM.
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post #17613 of 17627 Old 05-28-2019, 06:53 AM
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Here is a review of a Winegard antenna which I read about in the Cleveland PD but here is the original article:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ous-tv-antenna
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post #17614 of 17627 Old 05-28-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkeldo View Post
Here is a review of a Winegard antenna which I read about in the Cleveland PD but here is the original article:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ous-tv-antenna
Good antenna with built in amp but plastic build quality may be a concern outdoors. Great for attic. Currently on sale Amazon for $119 with $17.90 discount coupon.
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post #17615 of 17627 Old 05-28-2019, 11:29 AM
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Good antenna with built in amp but plastic build quality may be a concern outdoors. Great for attic. Currently on sale Amazon for $119 with $17.90 discount coupon.
Also Winegard Flatwave Air on sale Amazon for $67.98. Good outdoor flat panel antenna also perform very good with built in amp. But maybe not quite as good a Elite model for VHF because it lack VHF dipole.
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post #17616 of 17627 Old 05-28-2019, 11:33 AM
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But I still like Antop 400BV flat panel antenna with VHF dipole. Come with inline amp but excels if you add external preamp instead. Has indoor stand or can be used attic or outdoors.
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post #17617 of 17627 Old 05-29-2019, 02:34 PM
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Winegard Elite 7550 appears to be a 4-Bay Dipole Antenna (similar to W-G HD-4400)...PLUS a pair of (apparently Unconnected) UHF Resonator Rods at Top and Bottom....PLUS a Hi-VHF Dipole (likely 0 dBd = 2.2 dBi, give or take some Combining Loss????):
http://www.winegard.com/help/images/c/cd/2452393.pdf
http://www.winegard.com/elite

"We're the NEW Winegard....we no longer NEED to provide any Stinking SPECS!!!!" However, Azimuthal Pattern Chart indicates either 8-10 dBi OR 8-10 dBd = 10.2-12.2 dBi in UHF Band....they didn't stipulate, but I suspect it's the latter, higher numbers.

Clearly someone chose to use a "Pretty"....but WAY TOO SMALL Reflector System....which explains why HD-4400 4-Bay Dipole with 4 Reflector Rods has significantly higher Gain = 12.7 to 15.1 dBi:
https://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mul...winegardhd4400

================================================== ============
HDB-4X is a REAL 4-Bay Bowtie Antenna from Solid Signal at 1/3 the cost:
https://www.amazon.com/Xtreme-Signal.../dp/B00CX6QBIO
Also CM4221HD at 1/3 the cost:
https://www.amazon.com/Channel-Maste.../dp/B000FVTPX2
Or A-D DB-4e Re-Optimized for current 470-698 MHz Band:
https://www.amazon.com/Element-Bowti.../dp/B0074H3IU6

Plus your CHOICE of a VHF Antenna, such as:
https://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Dire.../dp/B00LHFRCMG [Universal VHF Dipole Kit incl VHF/UHF Combiner, $25 with Prime S/H]

Or, if you need more than a simple Dipole for Ch7-13, either of the fol. Hi-VHF Antennas:
https://www.amazon.com/30-2475-Fring.../dp/B014M0XXES
https://www.amazon.com/30-2476-Fring.../dp/B07R69QJ3Q
Where VHF/UHF Combiner is extra:
https://www.amazon.com/Masthead-Ante.../dp/B015ZSVDAW [DC PASS on UHF Port]

Last edited by holl_ands; 05-29-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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post #17618 of 17627 Old 05-29-2019, 07:24 PM
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Unfortunately Winegard no longer makes their 4400 and 8800 UHF antennas. 4bay and 8bay versions. They were good antennas. But I guess they are now going for cosmetic and aesthetic appeal.
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post #17619 of 17627 Old 05-30-2019, 05:27 AM
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I have had an 8800 since before the digital transition. It still works well. I am thinking of replacing it since the last time I checked it, it had some rust on it, and one of the whiskers seem to be loose. Birds keep landing on them.


The 8800 has to be aimed very tightly on the station you want too. Turning it just an inch can mean no signal or a good signal for weaker stations. I have been very pleased with it over the years. I think it is much better than the 4400.
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post #17620 of 17627 Old 06-01-2019, 08:00 AM
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I have...an 8800... and one of the whiskers seem to be loose. Birds keep landing on them.

I used to service the cut-to-channel VHF antennas on a highrise building where the elements kept breaking off. The manager told me that it was because of the birds and I thought, "Yeah, sure", but what I didn't realize until I saw it was that they'd have a dozen birds light on the elements, and when the wind would blow, they would act like sails and develop enough force to bend and eventually break off the elements.

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post #17621 of 17627 Old 06-15-2019, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntAltMike View Post
I used to service the cut-to-channel VHF antennas on a highrise building where the elements kept breaking off. The manager told me that it was because of the birds and I thought, "Yeah, sure", but what I didn't realize until I saw it was that they'd have a dozen birds light on the elements, and when the wind would blow, they would act like sails and develop enough force to bend and eventually break off the elements.
I have a tv antenna hooked to six boxes in my house and a channel master (ota) dvr. Things are working good in that department. I am wondering about setting up a cellular antenna. I called ATT, and they told me to use wifi for cell calls in my house. They were not very helpful in giving information about cellular antennas. I see some antennas online that say they will manage 5g when it completely rolls out. I am not sure about what is needed besides the antenna.

Any thoughts?
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post #17622 of 17627 Old 06-15-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Alanlee View Post
I am wondering about setting up a cellular antenna. I called ATT, and they told me to use wifi for cell calls in my house. They were not very helpful in giving information about cellular antennas. I see some antennas online that say they will manage 5g when it completely rolls out. I am not sure about what is needed besides the antenna.

Any thoughts?
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Exactly what are you trying to do? You can't just plug an outside antenna into a cell phone. There is a such thing as a cell phone booster that can work quite well if set up properly.
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post #17623 of 17627 Old 06-15-2019, 02:12 PM
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Exactly what are you trying to do? You can't just plug an outside antenna into a cell phone. There is a such thing as a cell phone booster that can work quite well if set up properly.
I saw this on Amazon. It looks interesting.

https://boltontechnical.com/bolton-t...ional-antenna/

The cellular signal in my house is weak. A couple of miles from my house I get a 5g lte signal on my iPhone XS. I started thinking "what about a cellular antenna" and whatever else goes with it. I have seen people using cellular antennas in remote areas when I am camping. Those antennas seem to work with varying degrees of effectiveness.

I saw that antenna on Amazon; that seems like a good start. However I am a bit stymied by the cell phone boosters I have looked at online. It seems too early to look for a 5g booster, but 4g might be cost effective. I would like not to spend $500 on a booster, especially when I know that 5g is coming. I was wondering if someone on this thread has experience with the antennas and the boosters, and might head me in the right direction.

The advice I got from ATT was to use the internet for cellular calling. Ok - that works, but I would like to experiment with OTA cellular at my house, and maybe end up putting something on my RV, car and/or boat. It's really just a bit of fun.

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post #17624 of 17627 Old 06-15-2019, 02:41 PM
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I was wondering if someone on this thread has experience with the antennas and the boosters, and might head me in the right direction.

I had a cell phone booster (WeBoost) at my previous location and it worked great. That antenna is only an antenna. You still need the booster. The booster is a little tricky to get working right. The indoor and outdoor antennas need to be far enough apart and not pointing at each other so there's no interference.

I wouldn't be buying anything in anticipation of 5G at this point. If you have poor cell coverage now I wouldn't expect 5G to be better... probably worse.

Attached is a picture of the pair of 850MHz yagis pointed at my best cell site 13 miles away. The 2nd picture is a 5' dish and LPDA feed pointed at a backup site.
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post #17625 of 17627 Old 06-15-2019, 03:19 PM
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I've yet to install one, but I've done a decent amount of research on cell boosters. Like others have said, you want to ensure that the antennas are far enough apart so the system doesn't start "ringing."

I'd go with WeBoost or Wilson products - they both make products that cover most all of the band currently used for 4G/LTE. Directional yagis, pairs of directional yagis and proper aim are important. https://www.cellmapper.net/ can help you out, although a spectrum analyzer would also be invaluable.
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post #17626 of 17627 Old 06-15-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
I had a cell phone booster (WeBoost) at my previous location and it worked great. That antenna is only an antenna. You still need the booster. The booster is a little tricky to get working right. The indoor and outdoor antennas need to be far enough apart and not pointing at each other so there's no interference.

I wouldn't be buying anything in anticipation of 5G at this point. If you have poor cell coverage now I wouldn't expect 5G to be better... probably worse.

Attached is a picture of the pair of 850MHz yagis pointed at my best cell site 13 miles away. The 2nd picture is a 5' dish and LPDA feed pointed at a backup site.
Ok - now I have some ideas. Thanks

mattdp - I will check out WeBoost and Wilson products. thanks

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post #17627 of 17627 Old 06-15-2019, 06:50 PM
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Re 5G: Keep in mind it will operate at much higher frequencies and will thus require different (luckily smaller) antennas. Also keep in mind there will likely be more 5G cell sites than 4G cell towers, with each 5G site covering a smaller area. 5G transceivers may be placed on street lamps or something similar; the 5G frequencies are much more "line-of-sight" than 4G and less able to diffract around small obstacles.
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