Official Sandy Bridge / LGA1155 for HTPCs Thread - Page 41 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1201 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post

What is your opinion on the 4GB vs 8GB? I guess 9 bucks is 9 bucks. I don't really fancy throwing it away if it's going to be absolutely useless to get the 8GB.

If it's just $9 difference, I'd go with 8GB. Windows likes to use as much RAM as is available for caching, etc. Even if you don't need it now, you'd probably appreciate having it eventually. There was a time when people were saying 1GB is all you'd need for XP, and then it became 2GB and now 4GB is norm.

Besides, DDR3 prices will eventually go up when it gets replaced by DDR4. You're probably better off going for the whole 8Gb now than upgrading later when prices have climbed. I know I wish I'd bought a few more 2x2GB DDR2 kits when they were going for $35 a kit.
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post #1202 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by oneonefive View Post

I have changed my htpc from ati 5450 to i3 2100 + HD 2000 IGP. The biggest thing I dislike is that unlike my previous setup the new setup's hdmi output goes silent for about two seconds anytime I pause a show. In other words, if I pause a show, and resume, there will be no audio for two seconds. For tv shows, I guess it is acceptable however, for listening to music, this is awful.

Does anyone know of any fix?

Thanks.

I can assure you it is not the same behavior with my i3 2100 here. As soon as I start and/or unpause any content, audio will comes in w/o any delay.
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post #1203 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post

Really??? I always thought (or was told) to use Dual Channel over Single Channel - Always!! So you're saying instead of 2X2GB or 4X4GB ... using 1 4GB stick or 1 8GB stick is just about the same?

I think we are on the same page here.

What I am saying is that dual channel (2 sticks of ram) compared to single channel (a single stick of ram) is almost exactly the same performance.

For example a 2x2gb kit will only give you at most a 5% improvement in performance over a single 4gb stick. There are lots of interesting comparisons that you can google if you want to read more.
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post #1204 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

No.

But unless its way cheaper I see no reason to get one dimm. I don't want my ram running at half speed.

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post #1205 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

But unless its way cheaper I see no reason to get one dimm. I don't want my ram running at half speed.

That's simply not true.

Here is an article discussing this very topic from a few years ago. This is looking at 1GBx2 -vs- 2GB in a single channel:

Quote:


But back to RAM and hard drives. As expected, the performance difference between single channel and dual channel DDR2-800 memory using an up-to-date Core 2 Duo system Compare Prices on Core 2 Duo Processors is little to nil, depending on the benchmark - most tests show differences, but they are really small. For games and enthusiast PCs, we recommend sticking to high-performance dual channel RAM, because the memory is one of those components that you want to perform best for a smooth experience. For regular applications, though, it doesn’t really matter much whether you run single or dual channel. Two 1 GB DIMMs typically are cheaper than a single 2 GB module, but a single DIMM will reduce your power consumption by several watts (which might just be more interesting than it is important).






http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...G,1705-15.html
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post #1206 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

If it's just $9 difference, I'd go with 8GB. Windows likes to use as much RAM as is available for caching, etc. Even if you don't need it now, you'd probably appreciate having it eventually. There was a time when people were saying 1GB is all you'd need for XP, and then it became 2GB and now 4GB is norm.

Besides, DDR3 prices will eventually go up when it gets replaced by DDR4. You're probably better off going for the whole 8Gb now than upgrading later when prices have climbed. I know I wish I'd bought a few more 2x2GB DDR2 kits when they were going for $35 a kit.

I have to say that I agree with you; I myself have seen 4GB run out of steam when you start doing things which would otherwise be considered "general" - like using WinRAR to extract a 16GB archive; and moving a 42GB ISO at the same time; while running TMT5 and testing out a video --- all of which can be happening on my HTPC at some point. I also agree with you about Windows eating as much RAM as is available for Caching.

For the cost difference, I too would prefer to go with 8GB over 4GB -- if not for anything else -- then my own piece of mind. If at any point something slows down - at least I won't be cursing myself for not having bought the 8GB over 4GB.

DDR4 ... hmm, didn't actually know anything about that. That should be interesting when it comes out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

What I am saying is that dual channel (2 sticks of ram) compared to single channel (a single stick of ram) is almost exactly the same performance.

That is interesting to know; I was told the contrary - but I must admit, I never really set out to look for comparisons & speed tests so my information was really just hearsay.

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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

But unless its way cheaper I see no reason to get one dimm.

I can agree with this too; quite honestly there is really no cost different between single channel & dual channel. It's pretty much exactly the same. The only benefit I see is you're using 1 Slot on your motherboard as opposed to 2. But again - in an HTPC - there's only so far you need to go. Most people would be comfortable with 4GB ... 8GB is just about the max you'd want.

At the end of the day - I think I'll stick with my 8GB (2 X 4GB) DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit. The cost difference is so negligible that it doesn't really make sense for me to drop to 1 DIMM or 4GB Total. My main issue was between 1333 vs 1600 which was a big cost difference and I'm glad I don't have to pay for the 1600 modules.

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post #1207 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

That's simply not true.

Here is an article discussing this very topic from a few years ago. This is looking at 1GBx2 -vs- 2GB in a single channel:








http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...G,1705-15.html

I don't see what that proves. This isn't a gaming forum. I'm not saying dual channel on an htpc will yeild some huge gain. But they normally go for the same price. So again unless you get a great deal on a single dimm, why not run in dual channel as it is intended. Its the same price right now on newegg, sure this gives you the option to go 8 gigs later. But by the time you truly need it you will probably want a new system anyways.

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post #1208 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 01:21 PM
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Here is another comparison...

Quote:


Scores are almost identical, if you run the test again maybe the lead will change.
about scores:

Single - Dual
13131 - 13086 difference is <0.5 percent
5065 - 5081 better
6042 - 5969 btw SM3 score is very GPU dependant
4018 - 4034 better

The correct conclusion: dual channel has no advantage in gaming or single channel has no disadvantage but single channel is probably never better.

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post #1209 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

I don't see what that proves. This isn't a gaming forum. I'm not saying dual channel on an htpc will yeild some huge gain. But they normally go for the same price. So again unless you get a great deal on a single dimm, why not run in dual channel as it is intended.

I don't see what gaming vs non-gaming has to do with RAM scores when they are essentially the same.

If they are the same price then by all means go with the dual channel kit (that's also all I recommend).

However every once and a while a single 4GB stick goes on sale for $35-$40. So there is nothing wrong with using that.

Another reason to use a single stick is if you only have 2 RAM slots and want to leave the option open for adding RAM in the future.
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post #1210 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

However every once and a while a single 4GB stick goes on sale for $35-$40. So there is nothing wrong with using that.

Another reason to use a single stick is if you only have 2 RAM slots and want to leave the option open for adding RAM in the future.

These are the 2 reasons I would recommend going with a Single DIMM too; but otherwise, as you stated, it's better to go with Dual Channel.

I'm hoping some Z68 boards show up in the next couple of days. By the time i3-2105 is out -- I'm hoping to have a final selection made on my motherboard (Z68 or H67) so I can order both & wrap up my shopping!

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post #1211 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 01:39 PM
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Sure I said from the beginning if its a much better deal then sure. But for if its $5 or less I'm going dual. Actually I would never buy a single dimm but thats just me. You might save 5 bucks but its pretty easy to get 4gb for 40 bucks these days.

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post #1212 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 01:40 PM
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hlkc, what motherboard do you use? Also, did you change any settings in intel display driver or audio?
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post #1213 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Sure I said from the beginning if its a much better deal then sure. But for if its $5 or less I'm going dual. Actually I would never buy a single dimm but thats just me. You might save 5 bucks but its pretty easy to get 4gb for 40 bucks these days.

I agree. I guess except when I am using a board with only 2 RAM slots.

Sorry for the small diversion in the topic. Let's move on...
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post #1214 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I agree. I guess except when I am using a board with only 2 RAM slots.

Hmm, same here. If the mobo only had 2 slots and I couldn't afford to go with 8GB, I'd go with a single 4GB stick for future upgradability. If it has 4 slots, dual-channel 2x2GB. I usually buy single sticks instead of kits, though, unless the kits are much cheaper. At least with Kingston, if one stick fails and you need to RMA, you need to send in the whole kit even if the other stick works fine. Major pain in the neck.

Dunno how other RAM manufacturers handle their RMA.
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post #1215 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 02:42 PM
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post #1216 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by oneonefive View Post

hlkc, what motherboard do you use? Also, did you change any settings in intel display driver or audio?

P8H67-M EVO

What do you mean change any settings? I changed the setting only applicable to my equipments such as refresh rate for my display, extended display for my plasma and projector and 7.1 channel for the audio.
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post #1217 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 03:03 PM
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Oh Man!!! That is one sweet motherboard. Too bad it's not an mATX. In fact, according to rene - ASUS doesn't have any plans for an mATX Z68. That sucks!!!

I hope there's some good Z68 mATX choices coming up. The ASRock looks good - so does Gigabyte. Why is ASUS leaving it's foot out in Z68 mATX?

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post #1218 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I don't see what gaming vs non-gaming has to do with RAM scores when they are essentially the same.

If they are the same price then by all means go with the dual channel kit (that's also all I recommend).
...

Gaming vs. non-gaming has one twist of relevance to HTPC guys. Gaming PCs always use discrete graphics cards that have their own dedicated memory, but HTPC guys using integrated graphics share their main system RAM with the video. I wish I had some actual stats to show how much memory bandwidth is used by integrated graphics. Just doing a quick calculation, 1920 * 1080 * 4 (32 bits = 4 bytes) * 60 = 0.46 gigabytes per second to refresh the screen.

I generally go for dual channel just because I feel as if I'm leaving something behind if I go with a single channel. And historically, the price of one large DIMM typically had a price premium over 2 DIMMS of half the size. That may not be so much the case today with 4GB vs 2GB sticks.

Bazinga!

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post #1219 of 2223 Old 05-10-2011, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by phy88 View Post

I went with the 2100 instead (along with the Intel DH67CF ITX board, Intel 40GB SSD, 1 x 4GB RAM, and 80 watt pico psu), and it's idling at 14.9-15.2 watts. Rises to 64-66 watts on full load using prime95.

15W idle for the cpu? Thats GREAT! Just to be sure: you are using a picopsu-80 with this configuration? Did you have to get the P4 cable to get it to work? If memory serves, the 80 does not come with a p4 cable by default - you gotta buy it separate (and more importantly know that you have to buy it :-))
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post #1221 of 2223 Old 05-11-2011, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

P8H67-M EVO

What do you mean change any settings? I changed the setting only applicable to my equipments such as refresh rate for my display, extended display for my plasma and projector and 7.1 channel for the audio.

I have MSI H67MA-E35 board. By changing settings I meant did you change any settings in either the realtek driver app or w7 sound control panel? I cannot believe it is related to motherboards. What are the audio and video driver you are running? May be I can give those a try.
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post #1222 of 2223 Old 05-11-2011, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Newegg lists 13 Z68 motherboards, as low as $120.

Reviews

- Intel Z68 Chipset & Smart Response Technology (SSD Caching) Review by Anand
- Virtu 1 by Anand
- Virtu 2 by Anand

SSD caching is looking pretty cool. But if the $110 price for that 20gb drive is true thats too much imo. $50 sounds perfect to me.

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post #1223 of 2223 Old 05-11-2011, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Newegg lists 13 Z68 motherboards, as low as $120.

Reviews

- Intel Z68 Chipset & Smart Response Technology (SSD Caching) Review by Anand
- Virtu 1 by Anand
- Virtu 2 by Anand

I'm There!!! .... Thanks Rene

Edit: After looking at the prices & features, I'm definitely glad that I waited for Z68 release; I see no reason to pay the same (or more!) for an H67 at this point over Z68. Definitely going with a Z68. Although there's only 3 Micro ATX boards out of all those so far - Good news is that I have to wait till around 5/22 for the i3-2105 to release - hopefully by then I will have a few more Z68 mATX choices available. This is looking good & solid!!

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post #1224 of 2223 Old 05-11-2011, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

SSD caching is looking pretty cool. But if the $110 price for that 20gb drive is true thats too much imo. $50 sounds perfect to me.

Smart Response Technology works with any SSD. Intel 311 Series is a SLC SSD, roughly twice pricier than MLC SSD (we usually buy a MLC SSD, perhaps ). It's faster in write. See the chart below (from tom's hardware); all SSDs are used as a cache. In the combination of HDD + X25-V, X25-V is the bottleneck because its sequential write is only 35 MB/s (much worse than HDD alone!).

It looks like the best choice is still an SSD boot disk (a 32/40GB MLC SSD for HTPC / 80GB or more for a desktop PC [boot disk] + HDDs [data]).
LL
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post #1225 of 2223 Old 05-11-2011, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by oneonefive View Post

I have MSI H67MA-E35 board. By changing settings I meant did you change any settings in either the realtek driver app or w7 sound control panel? I cannot believe it is related to motherboards. What are the audio and video driver you are running? May be I can give those a try.

I never touch the Realtek tab since I only use the HDMI thru the Intel Audio Device. I am using the older driver which is 2219, other Intel drivers I tried, I had nothing but BSOD problem. Please refer the thread below to see the Intel driver problem.

http://communities.intel.com/thread/...t=120&tstart=0
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post #1226 of 2223 Old 05-11-2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
hdmiOn (or a utility that does the same thing) might address this issue.
Thanks for the suggestion babgvant, I will definitely check that out.
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post #1227 of 2223 Old 05-11-2011, 01:42 PM
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So what are you guys going to use to try out the SSD cache with your HTPCs? Right now the cheapest SSD looks to be these 8GB and 16GB Kingstons for $40 and $50.

Everything I have read also states that the best performance is still a larger dedicated SSD in a traditional setup without the intel SSD cache enabled.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...^20-139-428-TS
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post #1229 of 2223 Old 05-11-2011, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jwdaigle View Post

15W idle for the cpu? Thats GREAT! Just to be sure: you are using a picopsu-80 with this configuration? Did you have to get the P4 cable to get it to work? If memory serves, the 80 does not come with a p4 cable by default - you gotta buy it separate (and more importantly know that you have to buy it :-))

Yup, 15W idle for the whole system, and yes, using the picopsu-80 with a separate p4 cable. The picopsu-80 actually has a mini p4 cable adapter specifically made for it which you can buy separately, but it's too short for the DH67CF, so I bought a regular p4 adapter. Works well.

On another note...the system boots so quickly that I can't even get into bios no matter how fast I press F2. Probably going to try disconnecting the boot ssd.
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post #1230 of 2223 Old 05-11-2011, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phy88 View Post

Yup, 15W idle for the whole system, and yes, using the picopsu-80 with a separate p4 cable. The picopsu-80 actually has a mini p4 cable adapter specifically made for it which you can buy separately, but it's too short for the DH67CF, so I bought a regular p4 adapter. Works well.

On another note...the system boots so quickly that I can't even get into bios no matter how fast I press F2. Probably going to try disconnecting the boot ssd.

Have you tried DEL?


Quote:
Originally Posted by phy88 View Post

Yup, 15W idle for the whole system, and yes, using the picopsu-80 with a separate p4 cable. The picopsu-80 actually has a mini p4 cable adapter specifically made for it which you can buy separately, but it's too short for the DH67CF, so I bought a regular p4 adapter. Works well.

On a very similar setup (still on the way) i ordered Premium picoPSU-150-XT/12.5A 150W AC-DC (just the 150W brick as the 120 has a fan) mostly out of the review of missingremote used that, and comes with 24pin n 4pin cpu so i figure was a simpler way to go, but seeing your setup is working great, im kinda wondering if Premium picoPSU-80/6.6A 80W AC-DC + 4-Pin P4 Mini Power Cable might be more efficient with how low the 2100T idles, even at load im expecting 60W max.
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