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post #1 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Question 3D Blu-Ray ISO backup only displayed in 2D

So I have an HTPC with Windows 7 32-bit, Kodi and a hardware powerfull enough to play 3D Half-SBS MKV files.

Last day I wanted to play a Full 3D Blu-Ray ISO backup created by a skilled friend of mine (the disc is mine) that showed me the succesfull result before transfering the ISO to an external HDD of mine.

Now I mounted the ISO with SlySoft Virtual CloneDrive and launched the movie from Kodi, but... it is performed in 2D...
I checked its settings and 3D Autodetection is on.

I don't understand if it an unsupported video standard by my video card (ATI HD 4770) or what?
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post #2 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr4z33 View Post
So I have an HTPC with Windows 7 32-bit, Kodi and a hardware powerfull enough to play 3D Half-SBS MKV files.

Last day I wanted to play a Full 3D Blu-Ray ISO backup created by a skilled friend of mine (the disc is mine) that showed me the succesfull result before transfering the ISO to an external HDD of mine.

Now I mounted the ISO with SlySoft Virtual CloneDrive and launched the movie from Kodi, but... it is performed in 2D...
I checked its settings and 3D Autodetection is on.

I don't understand if it an unsupported video standard by my video card (ATI HD 4770) or what?
3D Half SBS files are just standard (usually) 1080p HD video with the two eye feeds 2:1 compressed horizontally as two 960x1080 feeds in a 1920x1080 video stream. As far as a PC is concerned they are identical to 2D 1080p files. Playing them is not relevant to playing 3D Blu-rays.

3D Blu-rays are encoded in MVC format. This is effectively an H264 2D stream of one eye feed (Which is also what 2D players play), and a secondary MVC 'difference' signal that creates the second eye feed from the 2D H264 stream, to create a 3D signal. So to play 3D Blu-ray ISOs you need player software which is compatible with MVC (unless you rip them) MVC decoding can be done either in hardware (if your GPU supports it), or I believe software (if your CPU is powerful enough - though I may be wrong about this)

Full HD 3D output (as opposed to half SBS) to a standard 3D HDTV also requires that your PC (and video card if you have one) supports 3D frame-packed output. This is a specific HDMI output mode that outputs 2x 1920x1080 frames at 24p.

I can't see whether your 4770 supports either MVC decoding or Frame Packed output. It appears to be about 5 years old as a design - so may not?
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post #3 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post
I can't see whether your 4770 supports either MVC decoding or Frame Packed output. It appears to be about 5 years old as a design - so may not?
Hmm yeah that might be the reason why...
Well I guess I might look for a new gfx card...

Thanks for your support.
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post #4 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr4z33 View Post
Hmm yeah that might be the reason why...
Well I guess I might look for a new gfx card...

Thanks for your support.
When you scan the backup using BDInfo, does it show an MVC stream?

e.g.

Code:
MPEG-4 AVC Video        22107 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 MVC Video        10005 kbps

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post #5 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpitz View Post
When you scan the backup using BDInfo, does it show an MVC stream?

e.g.

Code:
MPEG-4 AVC Video        22107 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 MVC Video        10005 kbps
Yep.
Code:
MPEG-4 AVC Video        0 kbps              1080p / 23,976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 MVC Video        0 kbps
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post #6 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys what about an AMD HD 6970 (I've got a spare one)?

Looking at its specs (http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/gr...ktop/6000/6970) it should be fine, shouldn't it?
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post #7 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr4z33 View Post
Guys what about an AMD HD 6970 (I've got a spare one)?

Looking at its specs (http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/gr...ktop/6000/6970) it should be fine, shouldn't it?
3D HDMI - tick
MVD - tick

Looks like it is worth a go. What software are you using?
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post #8 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post
3D HDMI - tick
MVD - tick

Looks like it is worth a go. What software are you using?
KODI (previously known as XBMC).


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post #9 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr4z33 View Post
KODI (previously known as XBMC).


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Kodi doesn't play 3D Blu-rays internally... It doesn't have any MVC decoding in it as there is no open source MVC decoding solution, and AIUI GPU manufacturers haven't exposed their MVC hardware decoding...

Under Windows you can replay 3D Blu-rays in Blu-ray player apps, and these can be called as external players in XBMC within Windows, though it's a bit of a kludge.
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post #10 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post
Kodi doesn't play 3D Blu-rays internally... It doesn't have any MVC decoding in it as there is no open source MVC decoding solution, and AIUI GPU manufacturers haven't exposed their MVC hardware decoding...

Under Windows you can replay 3D Blu-rays in Blu-ray player apps, and these can be called as external players in XBMC within Windows, though it's a bit of a kludge.
Really?
I was sure it supported 3D ISOs.

So what about MHP-HC as an external player?

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Last edited by Cr4z33; 12-27-2014 at 12:08 PM.
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post #11 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr4z33 View Post
Guys what about an AMD HD 6970 (I've got a spare one)?

Looking at its specs (http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/gr...ktop/6000/6970) it should be fine, shouldn't it?
Yes, I'm using a 5770 myself, works fine with everything I throw at it.
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post #12 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr4z33 View Post
Guys what about an AMD HD 6970 (I've got a spare one)?

Looking at its specs (http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/gr...ktop/6000/6970) it should be fine, shouldn't it?
LOL 6970 is way overkill for BD playback--high-end card (for its time) with large power requirements (when gaming). But yes, it will do the BD/media playback fine. It's just a question if you want to use a card like that for something like this--it's slower than a more modern R9 280 or 285, and draws more power both at idle and at load (though at idle it's something like 10W vs 20W--not a huge deal for a 'desktop' machine).


The 4770 didn't support MVC to my knowledge (3D/MVC/HDMI 1.4 support didn't come until the HD 6xxx series) so if the 6970 is the only other card you have on hand, might as well give it a go
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post #13 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
LOL 6970 is way overkill for BD playback--high-end card (for its time) with large power requirements (when gaming). But yes, it will do the BD/media playback fine. It's just a question if you want to use a card like that for something like this--it's slower than a more modern R9 280 or 285, and draws more power both at idle and at load (though at idle it's something like 10W vs 20W--not a huge deal for a 'desktop' machine).


The 4770 didn't support MVC to my knowledge (3D/MVC/HDMI 1.4 support didn't come until the HD 6xxx series) so if the 6970 is the only other card you have on hand, might as well give it a go
Yeah I used to have two [email protected] in a gaming machine, but nowadays I don't play at all so one might suite in the meantime.

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post #14 of 36 Old 12-27-2014, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
The 4770 didn't support MVC to my knowledge (3D/MVC/HDMI 1.4 support didn't come until the HD 6xxx series) so if the 6970 is the only other card you have on hand, might as well give it a go
That's not accurate:

http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/gr...ktop/5000/5770

Code:
HDMI® (With 3D, Deep Color and x.v.Color™)
Max resolution: 1920x12009
But regardless of specs or rumors, as I said, I have the 5770 and it works fine with everything-3d

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post #15 of 36 Old 12-28-2014, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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The HD 6970 turned out to be too noisy for my taste so can you please suggest me a graphic card that does just what I need (1080p MKVs and 3D Blu-Ray ISOs) and doesn't have to cost a load of money?


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post #16 of 36 Old 12-28-2014, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I can't understand if the HIS 7750 iCooler low profile supports all what I need or not?
http://www.hisdigital.com/un/product2-718.shtml

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post #17 of 36 Old 12-28-2014, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr4z33 View Post
The HD 6970 turned out to be too noisy for my taste so can you please suggest me a graphic card that does just what I need (1080p MKVs and 3D Blu-Ray ISOs) and doesn't have to cost a load of money?
Try this before you replace your 6970:

http://www.ehow.com/how_8155154_chan...fan-speed.html
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post #18 of 36 Old 12-28-2014, 08:28 PM
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Basically the 4xxx series doesn't support frame packed. You need the 5xxx series or better (we're at 7xxx and beyond) for this and a suitable player like power DVD or such.

I went to a 5570 which was passively cooled, but you can get passively cooled 6750s and such - midrange and very cheap since they're old. Big ass heatsink but absolutely no fan noise.
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post #19 of 36 Old 12-28-2014, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpitz View Post
Try this before you replace your 6970:

http://www.ehow.com/how_8155154_chan...fan-speed.html
I forgot the reason why I removed that card.
It's basically faulty...

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post #20 of 36 Old 12-28-2014, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Basically the 4xxx series doesn't support frame packed. You need the 5xxx series or better (we're at 7xxx and beyond) for this and a suitable player like power DVD or such.

I went to a 5570 which was passively cooled, but you can get passively cooled 6750s and such - midrange and very cheap since they're old. Big ass heatsink but absolutely no fan noise.
I don't know elsewhere, but if you are still able to find an HD 5570 in Europe it costs (a load) more than an HD 7750.
Thanks, but I probably will go for an HD 7750 Low Profile (either Sapphire or His) hoping it won't sound like having a 747 parked in my HTPC...

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post #21 of 36 Old 12-29-2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpitz View Post
That's not accurate:

http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/gr...ktop/5000/5770

Code:
HDMI® (With 3D, Deep Color and x.v.Color™)
Max resolution: 1920x12009
But regardless of specs or rumors, as I said, I have the 5770 and it works fine with everything-3d
Yeah but two things:
1. OP was using a 4770, not a 5770. 4770, clearly not compatible with MVC

2. 5770 is a somewhat unique model. Originally, Evergreen series (HD 5xxx) did not specifically have HDMI 1.4 and MVC support however the 5770 was carried over into the Northern Islands (HD 6xxx) generation. This functionality was not introduced officially until the HD 6000 series of cards. 6750s and 6770s are merely rebrands of 5750s and 5770s, respectively. They're all Juniper GPUs. Juniper itself was originally at UVD 2.0 but since the 6750/6750 series had to support MVC & HDMI 1.4, this was merely added in drivers (and an additional PowerPlay state in the card's BIOS) to give UVD 2.x (x being higher than zero). However most other Northern Islands cards have UVD 3.0.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified..._Decoder#UVD_2
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4296/a...n-5700-rebadge

At first, people who wanted 3D/HDMI 1.4 on their 57x0s were flashing their cards with 6000-series Juniper BIOSes in order to gain these features as well as the additional PowerPlay state. However if your card is not 'modded' as such, I'm guessing AMD later just added support for all Juniper cards to playback 3D in the drivers, as they are exactly the same hardware as the 6000-series Juniper cards otherwise. Without the additional PowerPlay state, I'm guessing the card just upclocks to full speed or something (though this may only be necessary on 5750s, not sure).

Anyway, the point is, HD 4xxx and HD 5xxx cards don't support 3D/MVC/HDMI 1.4 otherwise, so OP is safest using a 6000-series or later card.
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post #22 of 36 Old 12-29-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
Anyway, the point is, HD 4xxx and HD 5xxx cards don't support 3D/MVC/HDMI 1.4 otherwise, so OP is safest using a 6000-series or later card.
Again, not sure how you can conclude that since it's a fact my 5770 handles MVC just fine.

I have never flashed it, it's complete stock.

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presenta...?pid=305&lid=1



Currently using Catalyst 13.12.

Now, i bought the card back in 2010, but only got a 3D TV in 2013, so maybe ATI did add support in the driver after a while...

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post #23 of 36 Old 12-29-2014, 01:12 PM
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Again, not sure how you can conclude that since it's a fact my 5770 handles MVC just fine.

I have never flashed it, it's complete stock.
:facepalm: I'm not "concluding" anything, did you even bother to read the links I posted? 3D/MVC/HDMI 1.4 was NOT officially released/supported for desktop cards by AMD until Northern Islands.

You can continue talking about how your 5770 works (without bothering to read a thing I wrote) as long as you want. I'm quite sure it works fine as would likely a 5750. That doesn't change the fact that other 5xxx cards (why I said otherwise where you quoted me above) most likely won't for the reasons I've already stated. I'm not going to bother "arguing" with you as you can look this up all over the place--any review about HD 6000 cards that mentions the UVD features and 3D functionality at the time will show you that this is when it was introduced. NOT a year earlier when 5770s were released.

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post #24 of 36 Old 12-29-2014, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
:facepalm: I'm not "concluding" anything, did you even bother to read the links I posted? 3D/MVC/HDMI 1.4 was NOT officially released/supported for desktop cards by AMD until Northern Islands.
There's no 'argument'... I understand your point about 'other' cards.

OP shouldn't get a 5xxx regardless, it's terrible for 1080p gaming

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post #25 of 36 Old 12-30-2014, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Easy guys easy it's Christmas time after all.

Anyway I found the Sapphire R7 250 Ultimate (aka passive cooling) at a very good price on Amazon Italy and I am going to buy it with a SSD drive, both in January.

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post #26 of 36 Old 01-13-2015, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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So the Sapphire arrived, but I still see 3D Full Blu-Ray 1:1 ISOs in 2D...

Am I missing some settings?
Do I perhaps have to use special HDMI cables (i.e v1.4) instead of normal ones?

I feel lost...
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post #27 of 36 Old 01-13-2015, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr4z33 View Post
So the Sapphire arrived, but I still see 3D Full Blu-Ray 1:1 ISOs in 2D...

Am I missing some settings?
Do I perhaps have to use special HDMI cables (i.e v1.4) instead of normal ones?

I feel lost...
Unless your cables are very old then they will play 3D no problem. From scanning through the thread you never mentioned what software setting you used. For Arcsoft TMT the setting is within the program to select they type of 3D output to use. It'll have Nvidia, stereoscopic, and whatever else. For example it is on pages 19 and 20 here.
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post #28 of 36 Old 01-13-2015, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj View Post
Unless your cables are very old then they will play 3D no problem. From scanning through the thread you never mentioned what software setting you used. For Arcsoft TMT the setting is within the program to select they type of 3D output to use. It'll have Nvidia, stereoscopic, and whatever else. For example it is on pages 19 and 20 here.
Yeah my fault sorry.

So far I have tried running Kodi internal player and MPC-HC player.
I am going to give PowerDVD a try tomorrow if that's OK.

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post #29 of 36 Old 01-13-2015, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr4z33 View Post
Yeah my fault sorry.

So far I have tried running Kodi internal player and MPC-HC player.
I am going to give PowerDVD a try tomorrow if that's OK.

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PowerDVD should work. I doubt Koki or MPC-HC would work with 3D ISO without doing some tricks.
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post #30 of 36 Old 01-13-2015, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I am suspecting that too (although I didn't have the time to Google it).
I am also going to test a MKV container I just made with the original MVC track to see if it's just a wrong auto detect issue.


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