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post #361 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 08:07 AM
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I got a new, faster SSD (Samsung 850 EVO) for my work-station PC last week so decided to try 10130 on my old SSD. I'm still getting false chkdsk errors and it often hangs on shut down. After several Windows 10 builds on three different PCs the same old problems I've had since January keep happening. This close to RTM there's no way I'm taking the free upgrade (at least, not yet) and uninstalled the KB3035583 update from all of my PCs.
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post #362 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 01:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by grittree View Post
What you posted earlier that came straight from Microsoft has now been revised. See http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft...nsing-hysteria
AFAIK no exchange or retail key no [permanent] activation we already know about the insider program U can stay in the test program as before and recieve ahead of time updates and still use *that temprary key* * but no permanent activated RTM * it will be the same as now for the duration of the testing program or until U opt out .

ofc The test build will be the same as RTM pro on 7/29 or thereabouts *except for the ability to recive ahead of time updates* and
a temporary key status in the test build .

*half these web bloggers don't have a clue and reasearch poorley or just as likley can't understand Microsofts *usual crytpic writing style . *

If you have your old operating system on the same NTFS drive and install an ISO or update download in a dual boot configuration there is no reason the installer can't find your other OS and key and prompt you to use *that * key that's kiddie script .

If you decline a key request use permission or entry either way ISO or update downlad it will probably warn you that your ISO or download update copy will not be activeted and likwise (otherwise) not activete either without a product key and stop the update install and continue with the ISO or MSDN ESD install but no activation and hound you for rest of ur life about that until you give up a product key .☻☻



Again half the web bloggers are not in the program (or in the loop because of poor reasearch or other ) or have a clue what they are writing about .
A lot of web bloggers and novice user illiterari don't undestand the distinction between an *upgrade privelage* and a *free* operating system they are two diferent things altogether .


FWIW I'll see if there is any change in the Windows insider forums I'm about to log in to *our clique there* for our daily discussion (maby U can check also if ur signed up ) they seem to keep up on things there with all the members and the usual illiterari there hounding them constanly but I think it's coming down it's like above .


They ain't giving up nothing *permanent* without a key otherwise *all the pirates and most of the Peoples Republic of China and Eastern Europe and the rest of the planet * would suddenly join the Windows insider program. ☻☻.


note:" it's likley unactived copies outside of test builds with temporary keys will not see security updates or Win defender updates *that has been discussed *

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post #363 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by grittree View Post
What you posted earlier that came straight from Microsoft has now been revised. See http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft...nsing-hysteria
Thanks for the heads up. They just had to go and muddy the waters right as they looked like they were clearing up. lol

Only about a month to go until we'll know for sure one way or the other.
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post #364 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 01:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Slosh View Post
I got a new, faster SSD (Samsung 850 EVO) for my work-station PC last week so decided to try 10130 on my old SSD. I'm still getting false chkdsk errors and it often hangs on shut down. After several Windows 10 builds on three different PCs the same old problems I've had since January keep happening. This close to RTM there's no way I'm taking the free upgrade (at least, not yet) and uninstalled the KB3035583 update from all of my PCs.
I'm with U there I 'm not giving up my 7x64 keys anytime soon for this buggy thing with depreciated I/O throughput .

Windows 10 ain't gonna be ready on 7/29 but they will ship it anyway just like Windows 8 FAIL hence windows 8.1 . I'm staying in the test program for a good while *on this box* the rest will remain as they are and see what shakes out and laugh at (or feel sorry) for all the newbie illitterari that don't heed the warnings of those of us that know or just don't know any better
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post #365 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 02:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rc05 View Post
Uh huh. Well I don't care either way if it's free or not, it's just interesting that Microsoft has backtracked so much on this. Their big announcement several months ago was that Windows 10 would be free to everyone, including pirated copies, but then they changed their minds (or didn't communicate it clearly in the first place). Same thing with the Insiders, they said last Friday that Insiders would remain activated, but lo and behold, they removed that wording too.
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Their big announcement several months ago was that Windows 10 would be free to everyone,
From the start ^^^^Only free in the case that U exchange a Windows product key you already paid for for Windows 10 with a product key and activeted priveleges hence you loose your activation priveleges on *that* operating system that was just neutered or deleted altogether depending on the upgrade path chosen .

^^^^It's been like that from the first *free upgrade privelage*with a product key exchange announcemet that was never a *free* operating system from the begginning ☻☻.

A lot of web bloggers and novice user illiterari don't undestand the distinction between an *upgrade privelage* and a *free* operating system they are two diferent things altogether .

Free! ........... No they never said that but only *that an upgrade privelage* would be free but not the [reqired product key ]

The terms have been very simple and same all along with win 7x,8.1 *upgrade priveleges * that was never a free operating system /☻



IOW U you have to read the fine print and cryptic writing at MS like it's been that way for 30 years

You can read an update here: http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwin...review-builds/

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post #366 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 04:13 PM
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It seems the confusion is now less so. Ignoring the reference to XP, this is the newest MS position. And subject to change if Taylor Swift or equivalent objects.
.................
Last week, Microsoft published a post that created quite a bit of confusion about how Insiders could potentially use the technical preview program to obtain a free license of Windows 10. At the time, Microsoft made it seem as if there was a path to obtain a free license to the OS through the Insider program but as we noted, that is not the case.

In an update to that same post from last week, Microsoft has further clarified how Insiders, who move to the final release and opt out of future updates, will move forward with licensing. According to their update, Insiders who leave the program and upgrade to the final build will be governed by the same offer that is currently available to non-Insiders (a free upgrade if you own a license to Windows 7 or 8).

More specifically, Microsoft says that if your system was upgraded from a genuine install, you will then have an activated copy of Windows 10, if not, you will be required to roll-back to the previous OS or acquire a new Windows 10 license. The company clearly says that this is not a path for a free upgrade from Windows XP or Vista which means you should not be surprised if you thought this loophole would get around buying a new license.

If you want to stay in the program, there is nothing that you will need to do. Each version of Windows 10 in the Insider program comes with a pre-release key that will keep your install activated. Microsoft does say that each preview build will expire after an unspecified length of time but you will have received a new build before the old build expires.

Hopefully this clears up any last bit of confusion about how the Insiders program works when it comes to licensing and will finally put this issue to bed.


http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft...-to-windows-10
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post #367 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 04:20 PM
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I think the author of the above article is too optimistic that ... [this] will finally put this issue to bed.

It seems you can stay in the Insider program and your Win10 will stay activated.
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post #368 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 04:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by grittree View Post
It seems the confusion is now less so. Ignoring the reference to XP, this is the newest MS position. And subject to change if Taylor Swift or equivalent objects.
.
Hopefully this clears up any last bit of confusion about how the Insiders program works when it comes to licensing and will finally put this issue to bed.


http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft...-to-windows-10
Setting aside Vista/XP I already cleared up the confusion completeley in my last post as per Microsoft along with a link to MS current position as per their own Gabriel Owl. http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwin...review-builds/

U *may * be adding to or creating confusion already cleared up in my prior post as per Microsoft by posting links from confused web bloggers who can't read or intrpret legalease and business leagalease *like* I studied in College and worked with for ~ 40 yrs .

OTOH they are correct in that XP /Vista never had and does not have a free *upgrade privelege* path so your link was useful for XP/Vista folks

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post #369 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
U *may * be adding to or creating confusion already
I'm sorry, but your postings are largely incoherent gibberish. Only people in "your circle" can understand what you are saying.

The rest of us have to rely on people who can write coherently. Even if they are "confused web bloggers".

Now, explain why someone "testing Win10" using the Insider program is harmed by "As part of the program we’ll upgrade Insiders to what is for all intents and purposes the same build as what other customers will get on 7/29, but that will be just another build for Insiders, and those who stay in the program will simply get the next build after as well."

And you ignore the fact that people testing Win10 can make an image with Acronis of their currently valid Win7/8.1 and return to it anytime.
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post #370 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 05:33 PM
 
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I'm sorry, but your postings are largely incoherent gibberish. Only people in "your circle" can understand what you are saying.

The rest of us have to rely on people who can write coherently. Even if they are "confused web bloggers".

Now, explain why someone "testing Win10" using the Insider program is harmed by "As part of the program we’ll upgrade Insiders to what is for all intents and purposes the same build as what other customers will get on 7/29, but that will be just another build for Insiders, and those who stay in the program will simply get the next build after as well."



And you ignore the fact that people testing Win10 can make an image with Acronis of their currently valid Win7/8.1 and return to it anytime.
Nobody said any harm was done to testers . RTM ,GA and new beta will be same same except for early update priveleges in the test builds and a *temporary key status * in the test builds for the duration or untill you opt out .

i.e. you still have 364 days of *permanent upgrade privelage* after 7/29/15 if possess a valid Win 7x or 8.1 product key . .so no harm done either way ulesss u did something really stupid and cant reretrive the key or don't have it on an OS or OS image or the sticker on your PC .

Quote:
And you ignore the fact that people testing Win10 can make an image with Acronis of their currently valid Win7/8.1 and return to it anytime.
On a Test build why would you need the acronios busines ouside of a back up just use a dual boot configuration on the same NTFS drive and U have both OS side by side with priveleges or U can put the test build on another drive or a VM ................... i.e. You never roll a beta over a stable OS thats beyond newbie stupid .
Sometimes if ur lucky you can roll that back even with a stable build but not always ........... it depends on several things .

Yes your pre existing OS key is valid when you are using a *Windows Insider test build with a *temorary key * .

If you read the link at Microsft I provided it's all *really simple * setting aside any of your opinions of my postings and whatever about acroniuos and all that .

If you used your pre existing Windows key to actiivate *any stable* Windows 10 build :


At^^^^That point (ouside of your activeted Winows 10 build or re install ) it wont be recoginzed as valid or linked to your MS acct privleges
*that* key will now be registered to a [U Win 10 ]specific identifier HTML tag [/U]and no longer the previous OS using it unless that was rolled back then it woulden be valid for a stable win 10 build ... IOW that's been thought of (a long time ago ) and debunked already .

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post #371 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 07:56 PM
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Microsoft and Windows 10 licensing/free upgrade/whatchamacallit = pages and pages of back and forth conversation

Apple and OS X (or iOS) releases = Free. We mean it. There IS no key.
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post #372 of 1199 Old 06-22-2015, 08:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post
Microsoft and Windows 10 licensing/free upgrade/whatchamacallit = pages and pages of back and forth conversation

Apple and OS X (or iOS) releases = Free. We mean it. There IS no key.
AFAIK it isn't in a litteral sense the same as Windows (presumably the key and or device identifier and probably ser # (or something)is embeded in the OS with Apple or tatooed into the motheboard bios or HTML Identifier tag ) In any event either way...somebody paid for the origional installed or stand alone OS X (or iOS).with the device AFAIK Apple inc doesent sell bare systems or devices sans OS.like PC's


OTOH I don't know about if there are *legally activeted* Hackintosh devices although Hackintosh devices do exist. ?

The upgrades are presumably an *revokable upgrade privlege* for that device as long as they detrmine same as Microsoft .

Again *upgrade privelege* and a free operating system are two different things altogether .e,g Linux distros outside of Red hat

It's all very simple with Windows 10 if you can undestand some of the arcane language M.S. and Apple inc. both use or othewise can comprhend the terms .

The confusion is all the web bloggers putting thier two cents in without vetting anything nothing has changed ouside of the Insider program (which alignes with RTM & GA now as far as key requirements where none were defined before in the experimental builds ) since the first announcement of Windows 10 upgrade *privelegdge *

I was there from the Q1 14 start on a dual boot configutarion on this NTFS hdd and still am .

Sent from Windows 10 Pro Insider Preview Evaluation copy Build 10130

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post #373 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post
AFAIK it isn't in a litteral sense the same as Windows (presumably the key and or device identifier and probably ser # (or something)is embeded in the OS with Apple or tatooed into the motheboard bios or HTML Identifier tag ) In any event either way...somebody paid for the origional installed or stand alone OS X (or iOS).with the device AFAIK Apple inc doesent sell bare systems or devices sans OS.like PC's


OTOH I don't know about if there are *legally activeted* Hackintosh devices although Hackintosh devices do exist. ?

The upgrades are presumably an *revokable upgrade privlege* for that device as long as they detrmine same as Microsoft .

Again *upgrade privelege* and a free operating system are two different things altogether .e,g Linux distros outside of Red hat

It's all very simple with Windows 10 if you can undestand some of the arcane language M.S. and Apple inc. both use or othewise can comprhend the terms .

The confusion is all the web bloggers putting thier two cents in without vetting anything nothing has changed ouside of the Insider program (which alignes with RTM & GA now as far as key requirements where none were defined before in the experimental builds ) since the first announcement of Windows 10 upgrade *privelegdge *

I was there from the Q1 14 start on a dual boot configutarion on this NTFS hdd and still am .

Sent from Windows 10 Pro Insider Preview Evaluation copy Build 10130
Your assumptions about Apple's products are very wrong.

As far as Windows 10 goes, if it was SIMPLE, there wouldn't be an entire blogger community dedicated to it.

P.s. Please turn on your spell checker.
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post #374 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post
Microsoft and Windows 10 licensing/free upgrade/whatchamacallit = pages and pages of back and forth conversation

Apple and OS X (or iOS) releases = Free. We mean it. There IS no key.
That's because Apple is primarily a hardware company. The OS is just a perk that comes with buying the main product - a Mac computer/laptop. They make their money on the hardware, not the software.

Microsoft's primarily a software company, Windows is the main product (when it comes to Windows; it wasn't developed to tack onto/because it was needed to sell you some other Microsoft product), it's not an added perk to anything else. It is what they make their money off of.

One would think there would be more involved giving away the main course, and not just a side dish. Being this is the first time Microsoft had done this - baby steps.

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post #375 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 11:43 AM
 
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Your assumptions about Apple's products are very wrong.

As far as Windows 10 goes, if it was SIMPLE, there wouldn't be an entire blogger community dedicated to it.
It is simple follow the link I provided .....It's a yes or no with Windows 10 that's pretty simple.

IOW no key no licence . What could be simpler than that ?

The only "real " confusion was the (previuosly un announced ) test build upgrade path for Windows Insiders that has been clarified now =no key no licence same as everyone aside from the RTM pro build thay can opt out of or not and use the normal GA upgrade path !

ofc couse the bloggers are going to write about Windows (they gotta eat ) not that many folks own Apple PC's that's a fringe group *by comparison* and now they are loosing out to Chrome books in education and Windows 10 will eventually make a big dent in whats left .

Maybe the problem is with the bloggers journalistic education or lack of ....many of them are just writing un vetted click bait so they can eat .

OTOH perhaps you can provide me a link or tell me where to downlaod IOS or OSX ,Lion or whatever on a Widows PC like I can with Linux ..... *and it's free like you say and free to activate without owning an Apple device and supported on a Hackintosh just like Apple devices .*

The reason I'm asking is I have a spare Dell Buiness Core Duo Nix box that might make a good dual boot Hacintosh with Apple being Nix based and all it might be fun .



ofc one would assume Apple inc. has factored the price of the operating system into the product cost of goods which would be a standard acounting practice for a public corporation ofc .

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post #376 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post
That's because Apple is primarily a hardware company. The OS is just a perk that comes with buying the main product - a Mac computer/laptop. They make their money on the hardware, not the software.

Microsoft's primarily a software company, Windows is the main product (when it comes to Windows; it wasn't developed to tack onto/because it was needed to sell you some other Microsoft product), it's not an added perk to anything else. It is what they make their money off of.

One would think there would be more involved giving away the main course, and not just a side dish. Being this is the first time Microsoft had done this - baby steps.
And there in lies the rub.

I don't want Windows to be free. I want Microsoft to charge as much as they can for Windows. The problem is... the compelling reasons for Windows are starting to get far and few. I WANT to pay for Windows, but not the way Microsoft has been evolving Windows and Windows 10 is now just a "You want Windows...this is what you get".

Look at Linux. It IS free. Completely. Yet, very few people outside of a very niche community use it. Why?

Those are the things you have to consider when choosing OSes. Microsoft has been playing fast and loose with Windows for a LONG time, now they are fighting for relevance.

Edit: And oh, there IS a hardware cost for Windows. What do you think it runs on? The kitchen sink?? You still buy hardware, just not from Microsoft..and that in and itself is another huge flustercuck.
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post #377 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 11:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post
That's because Apple is primarily a hardware company. The OS is just a perk that comes with buying the main product - a Mac computer/laptop. They make their money on the hardware, not the software.

Microsoft's primarily a software company, Windows is the main product (when it comes to Windows; it wasn't developed to tack onto/because it was needed to sell you some other Microsoft product), it's not an added perk to anything else. It is what they make their money off of.

One would think there would be more involved giving away the main course, and not just a side dish. Being this is the first time Microsoft had done this - baby steps.
On the surfece there is some validity to your agument to be sure .

OTOH I'm presuming cost of the Apple OS is factored into the cost of goods of the HDWE product ( just like a Windows PC ) which would be a standard accounting practice at a public corporation using conventionally acccepted accounting practices .

What about Hackintosh devices how does that work ?

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post #378 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 12:03 PM
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I don't want Windows to be free.
Ok, that's all fine and dandy, but that's not your call.

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Originally Posted by kapone View Post
Edit: And oh, there IS a hardware cost for Windows. What do you think it runs on? The kitchen sink?? You still buy hardware, just not from Microsoft..and that in and itself is another huge flustercuck.
There is no hardware cost in Windows. You're smart enough to know that. Just because most people only get Windows on a new computer - from Dell or HP - who already paid Microsoft for Windows - does not mean there is a hardware cost to it. Just because you buy floor mats for your car does not mean the price of the car is offset by the cost of the floor mats. It's a totally separate product with totally separate pricing. Just because you buy a pencil sharpener does not mean the price of the pencils are included in the cost of the sharpener. The cost of hardware is not included in the cost of Windows.

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OTOH I'm presuming cost of the Apple OS is factored into the cost of goods of the HDWE product ( just like a Windows PC ) which would be a standard accounting practice at a public corporation using conventionally acccepted accounting practices .
That's pretty common knowledge, hence the whole - they're primarily a hardware company thing.

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What about Hackintosh devices how does that work ?
There is no activation, as long as you're hardware is close enough to actual Mac hardware and has the provided kexts (drivers) - you just install and use it.

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post #379 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 01:27 PM
 
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The problem is... the compelling reasons for Windows are starting to get far and few. I WANT to pay for Windows, but not the way Microsoft has been evolving Windows and Windows 10 is now just a "You want Windows...this is what you get".

Look at Linux. It IS free. Completely. Yet, very few people outside of a very niche community use it. Why?

Those are the things you have to consider when choosing OSes. Microsoft has been playing fast and loose with Windows for a LONG time, now they are fighting for relevance.
I see it quite differently. I see Microsoft attempting to get all consumers onto a single OS level so they can finally put the others to bed for good. They want people to shift to an OS which is also a lot closer to what is running on the newest XBOX. This makes it easier for developers.


The compelling reason to run Windows is also the reason why Mac and Linux have such a small market segment in comparison...games. Gaming on a non-Windows system (discounting consoles) is simply not very good. Games come months later, if at all. Need help with a game issue wile running it on Linux or a Mac? Good luck finding it.


The other compelling reason is cost. A business can buy a few PCs for the price of a Mac. PCs run all the productivity software you could ever want or need. Even if you look at desktop publishing, where the Max always does well, and you will find a Windows PC can do just as well.


When it comes to getting support for issues, Linux fails big time there, in comparison to the PC and Mac. There simply are not enough people who can walk Grandma though making any changes to a Linux system. It has come a long way, and I support that entirely, but it simply is far, far from being something easily understood by enough people to matter.
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post #380 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 01:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kapone
I don't want Windows to be free.
It's not you pay for it in a PC or stand alone or you can use an *upgrade privelage* soon from win7x and 8.1 requireing you to neuter i.e. exchange the product key from your current OS for a wndows 10 licence .

IOW it's never been free outside of test builds with *temporary * keys as is standard with beta software public testing in general .

If Windws 10 was free all Mac fanboys running Windows in boot camp and a lot of the other
MAC fanboys would be downloading it now as we type !

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post #381 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 01:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post
There is no activation, as long as you're hardware is close enough to actual Mac hardware and has the provided kexts (drivers) - you just install and use it.
Then it is free kinda like Nix to the small number of Hackintosh users *outside of MAC device owners* who presumably coverd the cost of at least thier copys in their Apple devices when new as I now underdtand it or no ?

I think I get it it's free to some and not to Apple owners at first who have free upgrade paths presumably like the Hackintosh folks that got it free.

With Windows 10 who needs it anyway unless ur into the ecosystem or software lot of the Fanboys are coming over to Win 10 big time now ........... IOW MAC OS free depending on circumstance .


As you can see I've never owned a Mac PC but I've seen installed hdwe drivers and software downlads for them I'm assuming those are the HDWE drivers you mean and IOS or OSX has the chipset firmware and (other) drivers like Windows ?

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post #382 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 02:02 PM
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Then it is free to the small number of Hackintosh users *outside of MAC device owners* who presumably coverd the cost of at least thier copys in their Apple devices when new as I now underdtand it or no ?
In the same sense that pirated content is free, yes. It's against the TOS of the OS to use it on anything other than official Mac hardware. Some people 'justified' it by buying the actual OS when it was still sold in boxes. But, now that it is only officially available via the Mac App store - they can't do that anymore.
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post #383 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 02:20 PM
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They still sell Snow Leopard in a box, I think for the people on Leopard or Tiger who's computers can run newer versions, but need the Mac App Store that only started in Snow Leopard to get the free upgrade. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC...6-snow-leopard

A little more back on topic: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9395/w...-update-part-2

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There are now three scenarios (and once again this is ONLY for people running Windows 10 as an Insider) and each is handled slightly differently. Nothing can be easy it seems.

The first scenario is that you are a Windows Insider, and you want to stay in the program. After Windows 10 launches, the Insider program will continue, and there will be fast or slow rings for testers. The Insider builds are pre-release software and are activated with a pre-release software key. Eventually these builds will expire, however there will always be a new build with a new key before that happens. If you want to stay an insider after the launch, there is nothing to be done and you will continue to have an activated copy of Windows. However, from the post, there is one more point to add: “the Windows Insider Program is intended to be installed on Genuine Windows devices” so even though they are not checking, to be in full compliance, the device running the Insider preview of Windows 10 should be a licensed computer.

The second scenario is that you have upgraded your Windows 7 or 8.1 computer to the pre-release Windows 10 build, but when the final build comes around you want to exit the program. As long as you started with a licensed Windows 7 or 8.1 PC, your PC will remain activated.

The final scenario is if you want to exit the Insider program, but you are running Windows 10 from a clean install. In this scenario, you will be required to roll back to the original operating system, and then do the Windows 10 upgrade in order to get activated. Once activated, you can do another clean install if necessary.
That third scenario sounds like a real pain
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post #384 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 02:52 PM
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They still sell Snow Leopard in a box, I think for the people on Leopard or Tiger who's computers can run newer versions, but need the Mac App Store that only started in Snow Leopard to get the free upgrade. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC...6-snow-leopard
People aren't going out and buying a new copy of Snow Leopard each and every time they upgrade their Hackintoshes to Lion/Mountain Lion/Mavericks/Yosemite/El Capitain is my point. They used to say - "Oh Snow Leopard/'x' is out; I'll go buy a copy and then install it on my Hackintosh". It still wouldn't cover it for the false sense of 'justification' that they used, even if they did anyway; because you're still buying one product (Snow Leopard), and using another (Lion/Mountain Lion/Mavericks/Yosemite/El Capitain).

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post #385 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 03:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rc05 View Post
They still sell Snow Leopard in a box, I think for the people on Leopard or Tiger who's computers can run newer versions, but need the Mac App Store that only started in Snow Leopard to get the free upgrade. http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC...6-snow-leopard

A little more back on topic: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9395/w...-update-part-2



That third scenario sounds like a real pain
Right ....anandtech.com is better than 99.9 percent of the bloggers and PC click bait websites out put there no lie ! I still read there .
I remember when it first started (he was a geniuos high schooler ) and we were all overclocking socket 7's et,al then Celerons and reading Anadtech and forum posting and comparing VGA and SVGA frame rates ,lighting transformation,shading CPU steppings, etc. there and at some of the the good spots ha ha good website good times too !


4th Scenerio U probably have figured already :

On a test build (if you opt out) you can *delete the NTFS Win 10 test volume (primary Win 10 hdd parititon for the Illiterati) on a dual boot configuration on the same NTFS drive or intsalled on ( another drive [from your host OS drive mgnmt ] or VM install or simply *uninstall it * within the test build wherever it is and upgrade from an ISO or MSDN ESD with a product key or use the win 7,8.1 overwrite or presumably clean install download update path if:

They werent beyond newbie stupid and rolled over a stable build wth a beta then they get what they deserve because after 4 weeks on any given build the [old windoes folder] gets cleaned out and their [old OS] is gone and (without a back up or heathy recovery partition (fat chance @ 4 wks. here it ain't there ☻ or factory image ) they have to start from scratch with install media and hope they either have thier key stashed somewhere ,tattood somewhere ,or can retrieve it from a back up ,or it's on the case sticker

Note: to the illitteratti if U were beyond stupid and rolled over a stable OS on a test build with a temporary key and No old w7x or 8.1 OS in the {old Windows folder } or back up u aint getting a key to upgrade to RTM permanent or any permanent unless U got it stashed or on the case sticker or on a back up or in your sock drawer .

Without a key Sometimes on a phone if U can convince some one at M.S. cust serv. ur not a pirate they might give you a key .

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post #386 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 03:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by htpcforever View Post
I see it quite differently. I see Microsoft attempting to get all consumers onto a single OS level so they can finally put the others to bed for good. They want people to shift to an OS which is also a lot closer to what is running on the newest XBOX. This makes it easier for developers.
One could argue that a better way to do that would be to produce a new OS that has compelling new features for everyone, instead of developing a new Os that has compelling new features for a small fraction of the populace, and trying to goad everyone else into upgrading because the upgrade is free.

As Kapone said, I'd rather pay for something I need or want, than accept something for free that I neither need, nor want.


Quote:
The compelling reason to run Windows is also the reason why Mac and Linux have such a small market segment in comparison...games. Gaming on a non-Windows system (discounting consoles) is simply not very good. Games come months later, if at all. Need help with a game issue wile running it on Linux or a Mac? Good luck finding it.
And the problem with that is that gaming is still very much a niche market. It's a larger niche than the HTPC market to be sure, but it is still a niche and not relevant to most users.


Quote:
The other compelling reason is cost. A business can buy a few PCs for the price of a Mac. PCs run all the productivity software you could ever want or need. Even if you look at desktop publishing, where the Max always does well, and you will find a Windows PC can do just as well.
that's fine for Windows in general, but it isn't a compelling reason to move to Windows 10. Even with the upgrade being free, the cost for businesses to migrate to Windows 10 would be huge. If every business in the US migrated every PC that qualified for the free upgrade to Windows 10 this year, I would guess the cost would be well into the billions. In the IT world, upgrades don't just happen. In the Enterprise, it takes a huge number of IT man-hour to test configurations, and deploy the new OSes. Old legacy software has to be tested and verified to work properly. Staff has to be trained on using the new OS (by far the biggest cost) and loss of productivity hast to be factored in while everyone gets used to finding where MS hid all of the familiar old things in their latest UI reinvention.

Hardware and licenses are relatively cheap. It's all of the other costs that make upgrading an OS unappealing in the corporate world.
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post #387 of 1199 Old 06-23-2015, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by htpcforever View Post
I see it quite differently. I see Microsoft attempting to get all consumers onto a single OS level so they can finally put the others to bed for good. They want people to shift to an OS which is also a lot closer to what is running on the newest XBOX. This makes it easier for developers.

The compelling reason to run Windows is also the reason why Mac and Linux have such a small market segment in comparison...games. Gaming on a non-Windows system (discounting consoles) is simply not very good. Games come months later, if at all. Need help with a game issue wile running it on Linux or a Mac? Good luck finding it.

The other compelling reason is cost. A business can buy a few PCs for the price of a Mac. PCs run all the productivity software you could ever want or need. Even if you look at desktop publishing, where the Max always does well, and you will find a Windows PC can do just as well.

When it comes to getting support for issues, Linux fails big time there, in comparison to the PC and Mac. There simply are not enough people who can walk Grandma though making any changes to a Linux system. It has come a long way, and I support that entirely, but it simply is far, far from being something easily understood by enough people to matter.
We don't entirely disagree as such.

My biggest pet peeve (as I have ranted enough about...) is I shouldn't have to give a rat's ass about the Xbox. The Xbox is a gaming console. If the company that makes the dominant OS that runs on >95% (or is it more?) of the PCs out there, has a gaming console as a focus point when designing their OS, something's very wrong. I realize a lot of people choose Windows over other OSes because of games and that's perfectly fine. It's the other much much bigger segment of users who use Windows for work, that suffer due to decisions made for these smaller communities.

Microsoft has been moving towards this "One Windows that runs everywhere"...for way more reasons than people think. It's called cost. Development/Testing/QA and what not of multiple versions costs quite a bit more. A lot more. And all of their sideline endeavours like a tablet, phone, automotive etc etc have been...well..sideline projects. They are all unprofitable. Windows on the desktop is the cash cow. Show me another product that Windows runs on that's profitable, other than the desktop. (The xbox doesn't count).

The business community again, has a number of reasons for using Windows, and cost is only one of the reasons. Active Directory and Office baby... Trust me, maintaining Windows desktops for a large organization is not easy or cheap. They still do it because there's no other choice. Yet.

And then Microsoft is still struggling for all of the various reasons I've said before.

My point I guess is, if you're a software company, what are you doing to make your software stand out from the others?
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post #388 of 1199 Old 06-24-2015, 04:56 PM
 
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We don't entirely disagree as such.

Agreed. One of the other compelling reasons, one that work places will possibly want, is ReFS. I know it can be hacked into Win8.1, but (afaik) it will be fully available on Win10. IE's replacement should excite the network / computer support groups as well. Neither of those are compelling reasons to move. I suspect business will move when they need to replace hardware and it all comes with Win10...just like they did for all the other OSs before it.
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post #389 of 1199 Old 06-24-2015, 05:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
One could argue that a better way to do that would be to produce a new OS that has compelling new features for everyone, instead of developing a new Os that has compelling new features for a small fraction of the populace, and trying to goad everyone else into upgrading because the upgrade is free.

As Kapone said, I'd rather pay for something I need or want, than accept something for free that I neither need, nor want.

We do not disagree here.


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And the problem with that is that gaming is still very much a niche market. It's a larger niche than the HTPC market to be sure, but it is still a niche and not relevant to most users.

Can you support this statement?

Quote:
that's fine for Windows in general, but it isn't a compelling reason to move to Windows 10. Even with the upgrade being free, the cost for businesses to migrate to Windows 10 would be huge. If every business in the US migrated every PC that qualified for the free upgrade to Windows 10 this year, I would guess the cost would be well into the billions. In the IT world, upgrades don't just happen. In the Enterprise, it takes a huge number of IT man-hour to test configurations, and deploy the new OSes. Old legacy software has to be tested and verified to work properly. Staff has to be trained on using the new OS (by far the biggest cost) and loss of productivity hast to be factored in while everyone gets used to finding where MS hid all of the familiar old things in their latest UI reinvention.

Hardware and licenses are relatively cheap. It's all of the other costs that make upgrading an OS unappealing in the corporate world.

Agreed. I believe businesses will move to Win10 the same way they moved to WinXP, and Win7. They will move to Win10 when they must replace their hardware and it all comes with Win10 on it.


Training the staff does not happen, unless you are talking about the very small group knows as desktop support. Everyone else is not given training. Office is no different on Win10 than it is on Win7. Heck, almost no business gives training when they change versions of Office.


What all features does the average user have to search for on a regular basis that will cause this "loss of productivity"? How to double click the icons they always double clicked on to launch the applications they already use on a regular basis? How to double click the Internet browser icon so they can go to Facebook? What productivity will be lost by having the user do what they always did, just on a different OS?
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post #390 of 1199 Old 06-24-2015, 05:09 PM
 
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From what I have read Windows 10 is not free for Businesses,...did I miss something?
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